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Would you employ a large person?

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Consistency

I watched a programme a few nights ago and this was all about how difficult it is for larger people.

I had a lot of sympathy with what was being said and it mentioned about how hard it is for an employee who is large to get work as they are unwanted.

It spoke about how difficult it is for people, especially larger ladies to buy clothes. The programme showed a young couple of clothes and out of so many shops, they could not find any nice clothes of their sizes. Sizes went up to a size 16. This has been on my mind since really and I know some right stuck up thin women who think they are God's gift and some good women who are thin. I also know a woman who is big and is so arrogant and full of herself, bolshy and thinks something is owed to her but I also know a few women who are big who are bundles of joy. There are some really nice bigger women out there and I remember when I was a cleaner and one of the places I cleaned was an office.

There was a big lady there, tucked away in her little office out of the public eye who was very large, she was an underestimated gem. Her manners were impeccable and there was just something about her. She was the only one who would open doors for you and pick up her bin so you could hoover underneath and never failed to smile.

There were plenty of what I would call office tarts there, with their Gym memberships and looking perfect and of course these were on full display. Sickly thin and if they were infront of you would flounce and knowing you were behind would love to slam the door in your face.

Is this the last of the prejudices? I would employ someone on account of their ability and loyalty and trustworthiness, looks would not come into it for me but I think sometimes it just may count or have I took the issue a bit too much to heart.

It is always the thinner people who say "Just diet and exercise more - simple" but it is not always as simple as that and I think we should be less judgemental.

In the programme it mentioned how stores do not like stocking larger clothes as they look out of place on their shelves or racks and they are often where they do stock them out the back so ladies have to ask. This is not nice for them as they are made perhaps to feel like a freak and as though they cant go out shopping.

I was in BHS today and I walked through the ladies department to get to the Mens upstairs as I wanted to get a Shirt ( I cant think of shirt's now without thinking of Noel Edmunds in that Sketch - saying Men's Shirts - Shirts - For Men! - Sorry that was off track) and although they stocked some larger sizes for ladies I did have a look. I saw a sale rack and looked for the largest size on the rack which was a size 20 nightie. Thinking was was said about shops not liking these sizes, I left it a few minutes and mosied about. I then saw a slim woman sorting the clothes, and pick the nightie up and put it at the back.

There was no reason for this as the sale rack was a jumble, in no order. I wonder if this was deliberate and if there is more to this than meets the eye or was it an innocent act?

In a nutshell, if anyone on here is big, do you feel that this is the last prejudice and have you had difficulties in employment or other areas?
 
I eat loads and loads but don't seem able to put weight on. I'm constantly being told to eat some pies, or people assume I'm borderline anorexic, but obviously, it's nothing to do with my eating habits, and it stings, just like it would sting a big person to be called abusive names due only to their weight. I think it works both ways. With the exception of those pathetic glossy mags, where models are size zero, skinny people get slated just as mucher as big people. I think people make assumptions that skinny people have it easy and are look upon more favourably, but in my experience it's a myth. Besides, most men I know would rather date a big lady than a skinny one!
I do have a couple of larger friends who do struggle to find nice fashionable clothes and have to shop online often, but I can't say I've noticed bigger items at the back...I'll have a look next time I'm out shopping. Overall though, other than obvious name-calling that you sadly sometimes here from strangers on the street ("oi, fatty", or "lard @$$") I've never noticed anyone being treated any differently in any capacity due to their size. The bigger ladies I know tend to be the most bubbly friendly people, just lovely & beautiful like anyone else, and I guess this sees them through things like getting jobs, etc. I would trade bodies with one of my friends any day! Apparantly, we're becoming a big nation anyway, so I guess it won't matter soon as we'll all be classed as big. MacDonalds will be the first to see to that.
My answer to your question: Yes, I'd employ a large person, skinny person, purple person, gold person, giant, dwarf, alien...as long as they can do the job properly. :)
 
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Just wanted to add, anyone who judges someone on looks/size rather than ability isn't worth working for anyway. My sister's doing a dissertation at uni about aesthetic labour, and she she mentioned how shocked she was to hear a few of the opinions of employers...a lot hire employees JUST BECAUSE how they look! I'd expect it more in the entertaintment industry, but it's ridiculous really. Sad.
 
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Why not employ a large person? the large person also can do the job as the thin do, even some of them are better than thin. So why not hire them?? only one answer: prejudice.
 
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I've got to be honest - and saxondale has touched on the point - if I had a vacancy and the candidates were exactly equal - but one was a gorgeous looking female and the other, lets say, less so - who would I employ ?

The good looking one.

Now, I agree that is pretty bad, but when I think about it, it gets worse.

I said if they were eqaul, then I started thinking - what if the good looking one was slightly worse in terms of job qualification than the other one - would I still go for her ?

Again, to answer with total honesty, I realised that the ratio between how far (in terms of ability) I would allow the good lookin girl to be behind the other one would be in direct proportion to how good looking the girl really was !

Again, I know, this is really bad, esp as I don't consider myself prejudice in any way - but there you have it.

With this in mind, perhaps when it came to hiring staff I would be better letting someone else do it

By the way- Ive illustrated my 'thoughts' by talking about female looks - and as the thread started off about size, I should add that I'm not saying that just because someone is large they are not good looking or appealing etc - I too am a larger sort of guy, and I'm gods gift to women ! (honest)

All the best

Steve
 
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Just wanted to add, anyone who judges someone on looks/size rather than ability isn't worth working for anyway.
Click to expand...
I think we all do this consciously or unconsciously. Isn't someone who goes out of their way to hire a fat/thin/ugly person equally guilty?
 
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The large person is definitely going to be discriminated against as there are lots of jobs where being large isn't going to work.

Random examples are shops like Hollister where you not only have to be slim but also beautiful because the staff have to convey and image to go with the clothing. In MacDonalds when I worked there a long time ago we used to say that they put the good looking people on the tills at the front and the ugly ones at the back out of sight in the kitchen. Whether this was intentional or subconscious I do not know.

I have also seen people so large that they actually have difficulty breathing and it is stressful to work with them because you think they are going to keel over at any moment because the physical exertion of the job is beyond them.

With so many people being obese there are a lot of big clothes on the market; I don't think that is a problem except that nothing is actually going to look as nice on an obese person as on a slim one.

25 years ago there were hardly any fat young people; now a third of the population is overweight, especially children who are really going to have problems when they get older. It is very worrying.

I am not a thin person myself btw.
 
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Yeah I have sympathy for larger people that are having a hard time. In an ideal world people would judge people from whats on the inside, unfortunately that doesn't tend to happen.
 
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Actually, there are costs involved in employing larger people. I'm on the larger side myself (hence my user name) but I employed a lady who must have weighed more than 24 stone, which I didn't consider at the time to be at the far end of the scale. She was very tall, so she didn't look too out of proportion, and I didn't think anything about it until one by one, each office chair she used broke.

There was the risk of her hurting herself. Two chairs broke while she was actually sitting on them before I caught on and had to research getting reinforced chairs for heavier people - more than £200 as compared with £68 something for our normal bog standard office chairs, I seem to recall.

It's ridiculous how things like getting a special chair for one member of staff can break out all sorts of petty jealousies. ("Why does she get a nicer chair than us, then?" I swear to you, I'm not making this up!)

Nor did it stop there. Toilet seats (how vexatious a problem is that when you're the boss of a small business and you have to take time out to concern yourself with broken toilet seats? Apparently Duffy the photographer flipped out because someone asked if he had any toilet paper. I think I know how that came about) and she expected certain things like doors and staplers to be a lot more robust than they were. She suffered a lot more in hot weather and was poorly/overcome, but you could see that it was 100% genuine. Absolutely no question of her swinging the lead, or anything like that.

She delivered something to a customer's house and they stopped the cheque (in the days when we accepted cheques) because they claimed she sat on their brand new sofa and broke it. That little rumpus went on and on for months. We avoided paying for the sofa but never got paid for our work.

But, having said all that, would I employ another large person again? YES. If they're good at what they do, then they're worth every penny, and it's no different, really, to having to make some adjustments so that we can employ disabled people, or some adjustments (if we're being realistic about it) that we might have to make if we employ parents of young children. Or adjustments for just about everybody.

You might as well ask, "would you employ?". Because if you do employ you end up having to absorb all sort of things as a matter of course.
 
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A good interviewer must consider not just strengths and abilities, but also weaknesses and inabilities, and their bearing on how the person would do the job. The facts are, significantly obese candidates:

- will be more prone to chronic health issues, and hence sick days. This is a medical fact.
- will have a lack of fitness which could make them physically unable to perform the job as efficiently as a normal weight person. (A study found that the likelihood of an employee self-reporting a work limitation was 8.3% for normal weight women and 22.4% for obese women.)
(http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v14/n9/full/oby2006188a.html)

I would definitely take size into consideration in employing someone. If I deemed they were class 1 obese (BMI 30-35) I would. If they appeared to be in the 'severely' or 'morbidly' obese category, then I would not, based on the above two factors.

I'm not ashamed of this. Obesity can, for most people, be controlled and is a result of life choices. I have no time for people who can't accept responsibility for their own actions.
 
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"I'm not ashamed of this. Obesity can, for most people, be controlled and is a result of life choices. I have no time for people who can't accept responsibility for their own actions."

Like most people you seem to be assuming that a large person wants to be thin but lacks the willpower to be so.

What if they are happy who they are !

Once you start down this line, then we would only end up giving time in society to ultra fit people who looked after themselves 100% in every way - and there are not many of these around.

I'm large, and I've not had a day off work due to illness for over 25 years - wish I could say the same about some of my more 'thinner' collegues.

Good thread though - some interesting thoughts coming out.

All the best

Steve
 
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Steve, I'm not assuming that a obese person wants to be thin. I'm saying that a significantly obese person has a choice... (a) be significantly obese and accept the limitations that come with it, or (b) don't be significantly obese and remove the limitations.

An employer should not feel bad for heeding evidence regarding the effects of obesity on work.

I agree, good thread :) We could arguably replace obesity with smoking.... {lights touchpaper and steps back}
 
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The other prejudice that overweight people have to overcome of course is that fat = lazy.

I think this probably stems from the olden days when being fat was most probably due to a hormone disorder such as hypothyroidism which can make you fat even when you eat very little and also makes you so tired that you don't want to do much. So you can see where it might have come from.

It doesn't apply now of course because most medical conditions are now diagnosed and treated and being overweight almost always comes from overeating. But the prejudice still remains and I have heard it expressed many times.
 
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If looks are not important, then I go for best person for the job - don't care about size, age or sex. However, some jobs do need a certain look. If your company sold diet pills, would you employ a fat bloke? If you need a dance troupe - would you want pretty, jelly mould girls or the roly polys? Would you want a 6 stone weakling for a doorman or a drayman?

I work on the principal that you match people for jobs based on a set of needs. If the needs are valid, then some pre-selection is also valid. It get very difficult when the law hovers around your head. Can a Christian bookshop not take a Muslim? Could a white person fill an empty spot in the Drifters? Could you have Snow White and the 6 dwarfs and one tall person?

Everyone discriminates to a degree. I do theatrical work and whenever you have a wardrobe master rather than a mistress, they are all gay - and because of the nature of their work, the female cast actually expect them to be. If a straight bloke applied for the job - I don't know what I'd do?

The theatre I'm in at the moment have a great policy on their front of house people. They all have a great personality - Age, sex, and size make no difference at all. In fact many are big people and nobody cares!

Common sense applies.
 
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deniser said:
The other prejudice that overweight people have to overcome of course is that fat = lazy.
Click to expand...

Not so much a case of being lazy but the medical implications.

Overweight people do not have so much energy available as people who are in the normal range, and are likely to have more health and psychological problems very often the reason they are overweight in the first place.

Earl
 
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Oooo a topic i can get on board with.

I'm a large person. Well quite large, im not struggling to walk 50 yards or anything. And this simple prejudice gets right up my nose to be honest. However, I can understand where the prejudice is coming from, there large therefore they have no self control and are lazy. To be honest that can be true, but not all large folks are like that.

Before i joined the family business, I was temping, couldn't get a full time job, and even temp positions completely undermined my skills. So it left me with either joining my fathers existing business or starting my own. And with the most obese nation in europe, employers can't afford to be too picky.
 
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  • Good looking people are more successful. (Just Google it if you don't believe me).
  • Western society thinks thin people are better looking than fat people.
  • You have a better chance of doing well if you have successful workers.
Where is the argument? It's not personal guys, it's business.
 
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Paulears - do you have any vacancies for a wardrobe master ?

I take it there is a lot of hanging around nude / semi nude women and helping them into cloths and things ?

Just let me know where you want me and Ill get my boyfriend to drop me off :)


P.S - is it ok if I bring my video camera to work ?
 
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I think this is a very interesting, but also heavily subjective topic. Lets look at the basic principle first.

It is wrong to judge somebody on appearance alone. This is pretty widely accepted, i am sure many would agree with this. The thing is, when employing someone, you have the luxury of being provided with documented information on the merits of their character, and alongside the interview process you should be able to build a fairly accurate picture of what kind of employee you will get, so in that sense it really should not be a problem.

However, what i disagree with, is that it is wrong for it to enter the employers head. For me personally, although i do everything i can to judge on merit, a first impression of someone massively overweight will raise the question 'will this gentleman/lady have the discipline to carry out the role effectively, if they lack the discipline to adequately look after their own health'.

Obviously there are so many variables that can make a person overweight, but in due time all of those should be revealed, but i feel if there is no other condition or injury as a base cause, then to an extent the question is valid.

Its not about looks, but discipline.
 
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I think there is strong prejudice in some areas against overweight people and I think that this seems to be the last one that shows no sign of breaking down the barriers.

I think it would be very unfair if this became like all the others and then someone who is big is put on that list of almost impossible to get of's. We need in society to have equality where getting rid of a disabled person, Asian person, woman, black person, mentally ill person, dyslexic person, lazy person, etc etc is as easy as getting rid of a White male who can read and write easily and has no mental or physical disabilities. This then would open up the job market to other people as in a meritocratic employment method, a person could be given the chance to prove themselves on their capability without the fear of once taking them on being doomed to carrying unwanted baggage.

In our position for example in security, there are certain jobs a bigger person may have difficulty with as it can in certain aspects of it involve a fair bit of running. It is therefore based on the way things are done now, that somone very overweight may be inclined to be turned down as we do not want to do the fitness test before each job, but we do not want to then be stuck with a person who cannot run as then we would have to employ someone all over again to do the bits that they cannot do.

There is nothing at all in my book to say that Joe who comes in in his slim fit trousers is any fitter or indeed willing than Jack who buys his off the internet. There are some right lazy thin people and some right lazy fat but the presumption is unfair. We can be just as stuck with a skinny Joe who is unwilling.

Because of many programmes and the anti-obesity campaigns, we are fed the idea that fat comes form laziness and this is not always the case, maybe in a lot but not always. It can also depend on the job a person does, if a secretary, sat at a desk all day and then home to the family with no time for gym or much exercise.

If we were allowed to employ on the basis of merit, and get rid if that merit was reduced with no reprisal then I think the job market would be very much opened up as employers would not feel so pressured or fearful.

I think we do need real equality where people are no more equal than other, the "equality" we have now is not equal at all and breeds absolute resentment. We should be able to employ someone that is fitting to the role and give people a real chance.

There is talk of the trial. A trial is non-existent as there are still procedures, notice pay, accruing of holiday pay from day one which is an entitlement even if they are a louse, and if you are in that list that says you can be discriminated against then much more care has to be taken as they can say discrimination.

Sorry I have gone off on a bit of a rant again.
 
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I think people have grasped the general consensus here.

I often employ or help other businesses employ their staff and whether I like it or not, their weight, shape and size definitely has a strong influence.

Now, I am by no means the perfect specimen, I like my chese cake and can put an 'all you can eat' Chinese restaurant out of business. However, I also know that I need to maintain a healthy life style and exercising regularly is important. The price I pay for eating what I want, when I want, is getting up 1 hour early every morning to go running and attending fitness classes 2 evenings a week. Now to relate that back to the topic, I would definitely suggest to any potential employer that my healthy life style and regular exercise is an advantage.

Perhaps look at it like this, it's not that people are prejudice towards obese/overweight people, it's that those of us who make the effort to improve our appearance are awarded bonus points for showing self-control and commitment.

I would even go as far to say that I would be offended if a potential employer did not acknowledge my healthy lifestyle as a bonus.

Just my opinion of the matter.

Gedge
 
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Gedge said:
I would definitely suggest to any potential employer that my healthy life style and regular exercise is an advantage.

Perhaps look at it like this, it's not that people are prejudice towards obese/overweight people, it's that those of us who make the effort to improve our appearance are awarded bonus points for showing self-control and commitment.

I would even go as far to say that I would be offended if a potential employer did not acknowledge my healthy lifestyle as a bonus.

Just my opinion of the matter.

Gedge
Click to expand...

I think this kind of presumption is wrong because it is making the relation between a healthy lifestyle and appearance to commitment. That is not always the case. So let us take an anorexic, is he or she not committed? She works hard and puts all her heart and soul into getting that figure into shape for approval. This is an extreme example but it is still commitment.

Another example, I know a lady who is South African. A very nice lady and is a size 28. She has always been big and her commitment is to her family and she does take care with what food she cooks, she makes mostly everything from scratch and does not add food or salt etc and walks wherever she can. She makes dedicated greetings cards from home and puts all her heart into it and comes up with amazing results.

Her family are her priority and that is why she works, it is her part time position. She used to work as a cook in an old people's home. She loved it and was well loved and was a marvellous cook, reliable and well respected. She was committed.

Is it so that your commitment Gedge which is more towards yourself is, and I am not saying is a bad thing, any more of value to an employer than hers?

When she was a cook, at the time you were up an hour early, you were at the Gym, she was up an hour early making breakfast for her family.

I do not think someone's weight or appearance is automatically indicative of a commitment level.
 
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I used to employ two salesmen. They overlapped some areas. One customer on the phone was confused by their names and said, "Is Bill the tall fat one or the short fat one?" Perhaps fat sales people was a subconcious brand choice;-)
 
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sirearl said:
But it does barring medical conditions indicate that they eat more than is good for them.

The question is why.?

Earl
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Maybe just because they enjoy food :)

I'm over weight now, not seriously but a stone or three. I have also been about bang on weight as well. I don't eat any more now than I used to (it'll be down to all the booze :p) but I also don't get the time to run 25 miles a week like I used to.

Would I like to loose some weight - probably.
Am I unhappy with my weight - not really.
Do those extra stones stop me working - not in the slightest.

Would I employ a fatty - yes, I do pay myself after all :redface:

The most troublesome people I have employed have been young (late teens/early 20's) attractive girls.

The best people I've employed or worked with, the over 50's regardless of the amount of lard they carried.

Not sure if any of that adds to the thread, sorry.
 
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sirearl said:
But it does barring medical conditions indicate that they eat more than is good for them.

The question is why.?

Earl
Click to expand...

Not always, as someone said earlier, she can eat what she wants and just not put weight on. Others can eat not much at all but not lose any.

People are individuals and we come in all kinds of shapes and sizes, especially now and I think fat people should have the chance to prove their commitment and if the appearance matches the perception and they turn out to be an uncommitted lazy slob we should be able to let them go without fear of reprisal but do deserve that chance.

For those that are very obese, they would perhaps be covered by disability discrimination once illness has got embedded and things set in. They will perhaps have Asthma or different things but the ones who are not there yet, may not get there.

There are different commitments as there are different levels of commitment. I would rather I think employ a fat person who proves themselves and keep them than take my chance on an orange skinny blonde whose commitment may be a bit too far towards herself in filing her nails instead of answering the phone.
 
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Drpepper said:
The most troublesome people I have employed have been young (late teens/early 20's) attractive girls.

The best people I've employed or worked with, the over 50's regardless of the amount of lard they carried.

Not sure if any of that adds to the thread, sorry.
Click to expand...

Absolutely adds to the thread as again you say about over 50s which although there is already legislation for them may still be a barrier. We could harp on about statistics but I don't rely on them. An over 50s person could be more prone to different illnesses that are age related but some are not and there are some as fit as a fiddle. There is a lady I know, think in her nineties I kid you not who still rides a push bike.

I would employ easily someone in their fifties and older if I thought that as the merits of employing them become significantly waned enough, we could dismiss without reprisal instead of all this having to prove beyond doubt and having to go through tonnes of procedures and spend a fortune paying them off.

They deserve a chance to prove themselves as much as anyone, even if they only last a few years, it is longer than some of the younger ones who have only lasted days because they were wasters.
 
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As has already been noted, there are always extraneous factors to consider than just the ability of the candidate. Fatties (like myself) do not get special treatment in this regard.

Consistency said:
Not always, as someone said earlier, she can eat what she wants and just not put weight on. Others can eat not much at all but not lose any.
Click to expand...
They are two completely separate situations. With rare exception, eating at a calorific deficit results in simple weight loss. It's a very straight forward IN->OUT system; consume more energy than you expend and you gain weight, consume less and you lose weight. People like to come up with lots of excuses out of social necessity but they're mostly just that, excuses.
 
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Still reading it but so far this sentence stands out to me

The court
rejected arguments that morbid obesity was not a disability because it was​
a change able condition within the person's control.


 
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Consistency said:
Still reading it but so far this sentence stands out to me

The court
rejected arguments that morbid obesity was not a disability because it was​
a change able condition within the person’s control.
Click to expand...

I would agree with that, from my experience if exercise less and eat/drink more I pork up. So it's easily changeable, for me anyway, I just haven't got the time or inclination!

Mind you there are them lucky people who can eat seemingly loads without putting on a pound. Or do those people generally smoke as well?
 
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