Working with a convicted sex offender

[Rocketman20166]

I have found out that a colleague of mine who I know on a personal level was recently found guilty of horrific child sex offences. He did not go to prison but has to do community service.

The company I work for knew of this back in November 2015 when this was first being investigated. He was still allowed to work in the office up until the last few months when he started working from home.

He is now convinced but is still being allowed to work for the company. Apparently they 'need' him but none of the staff have been told about anything.

This company is a very reputable travel company who offer family trips and also have a massive education department and deals with a lot of schools.

I've been told by HR they have procedures to follow and cannot just sack somone????

A previous company I worked for had a similar situation and the guy was sacked on the spot

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Newchodge]

Compassion?

 

[cjd]

If his crime resulted only in a community order, it wasn't 'horrific'.
Some of these things can be quite minor but they still result in being put on the register for the protection of the public.

He would not be allowed to work with children and it doesn't seem that he is. He's been punished for his crime and deserves a second chance.

 

[Vectis]

Compassion?

compassion
kəmˈpaʃ(ə)n/
noun

1. sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

Doesn't seem to me to sit easily with:

'found guilty of horrific child sex offences'

 

[Vectis]

If his crime resulted only in a community order, it wasn't 'horrific'.
Some of these things can be quite minor but they still result in being put on the register for the protection of the public.

He would not be allowed to work with children and it doesn't seem that he is. He's been punished for his crime and deserves a second chance.

I did wonder that too. 'horrific child sex offences' don't usually end with community service.

 

[Ian J]

I don't see any problem at all. This man doesn't appear to be working with children and it seems that the only reason for your complaint is that you find it distasteful working in the same company as a convicted child sex offender even if his offence is nowhere near as serious as you have made out.

In the circumstances it may be better for your peace of mind if you left and found yourself another job as the company are doing nothing wrong and your colleague has been tried and punished by a court of law

 

[AllUpHere]

Whilst in my mind pretty much any sex offence involving a child is indeed horrific, sometimes as business people we need to make decisions based on what's best for our business, and try our best to leave emotion out of it.

 

[Paul Norman]

You have a simple set of choices.

1. Kick up a fuss and make this guy's life impossible. I really hope you are better than that.
2. Get on with life. The legal system has made a decision, and you can live with it. You are not in any danger here, and I doubt anyone else is either.
3. Let your bosses handle it. This is not your fight, and not your problem.

 

[john1989]

Whilst in my mind pretty much any sex offence involving a child is indeed horrific, sometimes as business people we need to make decisions based on what's best for our business, and try our best to leave emotion out of it.

Agree. When it comes to children, oh don't get "just a bit bad".

Let's not forget that the sentence is probably reflective of a woeful justice system.

Personally, I would accept my employers decision. It's theirs to make, not mine. But I would quit, because the temptation to jump over the desk and throttle the perverted b*****d would always be there.

 

[The Byre]

found guilty of horrific child sex offences. He did not go to prison but has to do community service.

Horrific? Community service? I would want to know what these 'horrific' offenses were, before passing judgement!

I never trust people who want and even lust after going on a witch hunt.

Witches, Jews, blacks, queers, paedophiles, smokers, who do we pillory next? Whose lives to we set out to systematically destroy, just so that we can feel superior?

 

[john1989]

Horrific? Community service? I would want to know what these 'horrific' offenses were, before passing judgement!

I never trust people who want and even lust after going on a witch hunt.

Witches, Jews, blacks, queers, paedophiles, smokers, who do we pillory next? Whose lives to we set out to systematically destroy, just so that we can feel superior?

Do you think the pervert cared about systematically destroying the life of the victim?
Not only is the victim often let down by the justice system, it seems that they are let down by a large proportion of society.

I think the attitude towards child sex offences of "it's all fun and games" is what got the BBC into trouble.

 

[Ian J]

Do you think the pervert cared about systematically destroying the life of the victim?
Not only is the victim often let down by the justice system, it seems that they are let down by a large proportion of society.

We don't know anything about what these so called horrific crimes were but I'm sure that if the fellow only got community service then they can't have been that horrific and in all probability didn't destroy anyone's life at all

I think the attitude towards child sex offences of "it's all fun and games" is what got the BBC into trouble.

Times have changed a lot since then as don't forget that at around the time of the BBC looking the other way homosexuality was still illegal

 

[john1989]

We don't know anything about what these so called horrific crimes were but I'm sure that if the fellow only got community service then they can't have been that horrific and in all probability didn't destroy anyone's life at all



Times have changed a lot since then as don't forget that at around the time of the BBC looking the other way homosexuality was still illegal

Personally, I think any sex crime against a child is horrific.

What would you describe as not horrific. My former partners dad kissed her in way you shouldn't kiss a child when she 6 years old - it affected her life. I suppose you would call kissing not horrific?

 

[Talay]

If his crime resulted only in a community order, it wasn't 'horrific'.
Some of these things can be quite minor but they still result in being put on the register for the protection of the public.

He would not be allowed to work with children and it doesn't seem that he is. He's been punished for his crime and deserves a second chance.

Sorry but no.

As in McVicar: "Sex case, sex case, hang him, hang him hang him".

 

[HighProxies]

I think that this company you work for is just trying to save their behinds in case this guy would decide to get a lawyer and go after them for not taking the proper steps in firing him.

 

[Mermadia]

Have you ever made a mistake and deeply regretted it? If you did, I bet that mistake isn't going to hang over you for the rest of your life. This employee has served his or her time and is now trying to get on with their life as a decent tax paying member of society. They are not working with children and no children are being put in danger. They are simply paying their way in life. Or would you rather they sat unemployed in a room somewhere and you pay their keep?

 

[MikeJ]

Thread is 6 weeks old and the OP hasn't posted since started this thread.

 

[andygambles]

Community Service is instead of a custodial sentence. If you do not complete the community service you get locked up. Even so it is often seen as "they only got community service".

 

[Shonda Myers]

learn to let go dude.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Facts before a witch hunt (as The Byre has stated) would be the best way to go.

There's a guy here in Bury who had sex "unknowingly" with an underage girl - she was in fact 15 at the time. She told him that she was older - he is now a registered peadophile.

If you're in a club/pub anywhere in the UK and a lass comes up to you full on... and is a bit of a stunner and you're amazed at how a fugly chap like you can pull a lass like this... does this mean that your alarm bells automatically start to ring out?

Nah...

I was in a pub down south many many years ago, I bought a few beers, ended up pulling a lass - turned out she was 17... I was 24... I had no idea of her age... we had a good time though She initiated everything... I was well... going through my first divorce and struggling mentally... and had no care in the world.

Personally, and I'm being devils advocate here - if a young "woman" and I use the term loosely pulls a fella - and doesn't disclose that they're not of legal age - then it is she that has enticed him in... yet that chap has no chance, not a leg to stand on... looking at past history - it's always the chap that suffers? Why? she was the "Black Widow" in the short and meaningless relationship... it's hardly fair... she gets what she wants... to become "A Woman" he gets punished for it?

On the other hand - with the past few stories about teachers getting it on with students... (15 years old) then I see that as being entirely different - obviously the teacher knows... therefore deserves to be punished... but if it's an actual relationship and the lass waits for the fella... then I see nothing wrong with that.

We can't help who we fall for - it's human nature - but it's also our will and it's in our power to see right from wrong... some just fall off their path.

 

[The Byre]

Excellent post!

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I do my best...

 

[japancool]

Sack him on the spot and pray to god that you never find yourself in a situation where you're judged by the self-righteous without full possession of the facts.

 

[boring-friday]

Community Service is instead of a custodial sentence. If you do not complete the community service you get locked up. Even so it is often seen as "they only got community service".

I had 200 hours community service back in the day. We just sat getting stoned most of the day.
Did do a few old ladies gardens to be fair but mostly moved some dirt from one pile to another and back again. Weren't allowed to do any proper jobs for the council as it means they'll lose jobs. Think its against the law to actually do anything useful for them

 

[nelioneil]

Did do a few old ladies gardens to be fair

You stud!

 

[Evolved]

Sex offender is a generic term used to capture so many under an umbrella and causes fear. Two examples of sexual offences are private parts seen while doing the toilet in public and rape. Sex offender refers to both, but the mentality and inability to think first means most individuals instantly arrive at rapist or child molester when hearing the term 'sex offender'. Some sex offenders do pose risks from serious to minor, while others pose none. Like all crimes, most that gain a criminal record do turn away from this behaviour after the first conviction, while some take longer and some never do. I've done some research into crime, public attitude and opinions. While those convicted of rape cause some fear within a community, it was found that people fear drug dealers more and tend not to report drug dealers, but have no problem making life for rapists hard. On the evidence, drug related crimes cause more damage and fear within a community, yet are more acceptable than all sexual offences. Drugs kill our children, addict them and lead them into crimes that cause serious physical and mental damage on many many people while they supply their habits. Drug dealers make more victims than any sex offender, but that's OK, right? Why don't we find the courage to stand up and be counted on crime as a whole? Why don't we also accept that some criminals do want to change so much and do succeed? Just because someone has been convicted of an offence, it doesn't follow that they WILL continue on this harmful path, so be open minded, take precautions where necessary and give people a second chance. So as far as this serious child sexual offences are concerned and the community order disposal, I'd think it's more likely to be hype and exaggerated reaction, like making Everest out of a mole hole. Nobody is free of sin, lying, deception, treachery and unfaithful partners I find extremely dangerous and of the worst kinds, yet these aren't criminal, hence acceptable. Live and let live!

 

[Mr D]

Sex offender is a generic term used to capture so many under an umbrella and causes fear. Two examples of sexual offences are private parts seen while doing the toilet in public and rape. Sex offender refers to both, but the mentality and inability to think first means most individuals instantly arrive at rapist or child molester when hearing the term 'sex offender'. Some sex offenders do pose risks from serious to minor, while others pose none. Like all crimes, most that gain a criminal record do turn away from this behaviour after the first conviction, while some take longer and some never do. I've done some research into crime, public attitude and opinions. While those convicted of rape cause some fear within a community, it was found that people fear drug dealers more and tend not to report drug dealers, but have no problem making life for rapists hard. On the evidence, drug related crimes cause more damage and fear within a community, yet are more acceptable than all sexual offences. Drugs kill our children, addict them and lead them into crimes that cause serious physical and mental damage on many many people while they supply their habits. Drug dealers make more victims than any sex offender, but that's OK, right? Why don't we find the courage to stand up and be counted on crime as a whole? Why don't we also accept that some criminals do want to change so much and do succeed? Just because someone has been convicted of an offence, it doesn't follow that they WILL continue on this harmful path, so be open minded, take precautions where necessary and give people a second chance. So as far as this serious child sexual offences are concerned and the community order disposal, I'd think it's more likely to be hype and exaggerated reaction, like making Everest out of a mole hole. Nobody is free of sin, lying, deception, treachery and unfaithful partners I find extremely dangerous and of the worst kinds, yet these aren't criminal, hence acceptable. Live and let live!

Perhaps readable with paragraphs.

 

[Evolved]

Perhaps readable with paragraphs.

If you look around Europe you'll find countries with larger populations than Scotland with much lower crime rate. This is due to the difference of public attitudes, available supports, genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. We have much to learn from such countries on social evolution. Action steps adjusted then? We are snobs in Scotland with a rather blasé and holier than thou attitude that our view of self is better than every other nation.

 

[Evolved]

If you look around Europe you'll find countries with larger populations than Scotland with much lower crime rate. This is due to the difference of public attitudes, available supports, genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. We have much to learn from such countries on social evolution. Action steps adjusted then? We are snobs in Scotland with a rather blasé and holier than thou attitude that our view of self is better than every other nation.

I believe in Sweden long term prison sentences are carried out on week days. Social policy there is well advanced. Not only are crime rates lower, but recidivism is lower.

 

[Mr D]

If you look around Europe you'll find countries with larger populations than Scotland with much lower crime rate. This is due to the difference of public attitudes, available supports, genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. We have much to learn from such countries on social evolution. Action steps adjusted then? We are snobs in Scotland with a rather blasé and holier than thou attitude that our view of self is better than every other nation.

Yes I believe many places are larger population than Scotland, not sure what population size has to do with crime rate.
Perhaps take up the crime rate with the criminals? Surely they must be able to impact it most.

 

[Evolved]

Yes I believe many places are larger population than Scotland, not sure what population size has to do with crime rate.
Perhaps take up the crime rate with the criminals? Surely they must be able to impact it most.

Hypothetical numbers for illustration.

Country 1: population 10 million - convicted criminals 400,000.

Country 2: population 20 million - convicted criminals 250,000.

Again, figures are for illustration only.

 

[Evolved]

Soc

Hypothetical numbers for illustration.

Country 1: population 10 million - convicted criminals 400,000.

Country 2: population 20 million - convicted criminals 250,000.

Again, figures are for illustration only.

Social, economic and political factors are a major part of criminality, etc.

 

[Newchodge]

Perhaps take up the crime rate with the criminals? Surely they must be able to impact it most.

That assumes that the main reason for crime is the criminal's choice. That isn't always the case. Remember one of those ridiculous political slogans? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. In England (I can't speak for the rest of the UK) we don't care that there actually ARE causes of crime other than the criminal's choice.

 

[Evolved]

That assumes that the main reason for crime is the criminal's choice. That isn't always the case. Remember one of those ridiculous political slogans? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. In England (I can't speak for the rest of the UK) we don't care that there actually ARE causes of crime other than the criminal's choice.

England are leading the way though to addressing this. Scotland are always the last of the West to accept any positive change. Look at how England and Wales accepted the amendments to the rehabilitation of offenders act in 2012 and 2014. Scotland and Ireland refused and maintain this tough on crime stance, we have to maintain our privileged position as cavemen. There is movement in England and there is also Circles UK that is a charity where volunteers from all walks of life give their time and effort freely to work with sex offenders and employers to reintegrate them into the community with the focus being to help rehabilitate them and make for a safer community.

 

[Newchodge]

In 1994 I was working in the criminal defence system. I can still remember the disgust and disquiet I felt when a 6 year old boy was murdered. I was so disturbed that now, all those years later, I still remember his name. I worked in Hartlepool, a long way from Cambridgeshire. The reaction of my local police to the murder was, effectively, - "just as well, the local lads have already picked him up loads of times. If he had made it to 10 (the age of criminal responsibility) he would have ended up inside. Saves the country a fortune, good riddance." This about the murder of a 6-year-old. This piece from the Independent sums up the life he had. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-boy-who-was-left-out-in-the-cold-1282408.html If he had lived long enough to be locked up, whose fault would it have been?

 

[Mr D]

Hypothetical numbers for illustration.

Country 1: population 10 million - convicted criminals 400,000.

Country 2: population 20 million - convicted criminals 250,000.

Again, figures are for illustration only.

That's total criminals and population, not the crime rate.
You can give the crime rate regardless of population size. Just as you can give an economic growth figure regardless of size of economy.

 

[Evolved]

In 1994 I was working in the criminal defence system. I can still remember the disgust and disquiet I felt when a 6 year old boy was murdered. I was so disturbed that now, all those years later, I still remember his name. I worked in Hartlepool, a long way from Cambridgeshire. The reaction of my local police to the murder was, effectively, - "just as well, the local lads have already picked him up loads of times. If he had made it to 10 (the age of criminal responsibility) he would have ended up inside. Saves the country a fortune, good riddance." This about the murder of a 6-year-old. This piece from the Independent sums up the life he had. If he had lived long enough to be locked up, whose fault would it have been?

This is a heart breaking story. Some crimes are hard, even impossible to understand due to the level of wickedness, but even murders can be reformed. There is a lot of fear generated within society by the term 'sex offender', 'murderer' is self explanatory. The main problem with the 'sex offender' is nobody really knows what that means with relation to the crime commited.

I've thought of this and wondered if applying some kind of classification such as class 1 sex offender, class 2, 3, 4 etc would help society to gain a more balanced understanding of sex offenders, where class simply defines the gravity of the sexual offence and the risk posed to the public. Class 1 would be those convicted of the least serious and with the least risk to the public. While the higher classes represent greater seriousness and risk.

I believe that some people are so heinous that there is no way they could ever be allowed back into the community, but some sex offenders have commited non contact crimes such as sexual innuendo at work, sexual malicious phone calls, streaking, public indecency, etc. Preventing them from working isn't making the community any safer if the mode of their crimes is by telephone, email or on the streets, in parks, stadiums, etc.

I think approaching each offender on their own unique terms is a way forward. Maybe an employer can have a lengthy meeting with offenders and see if they are willing to discuss what they've done and why then how are they addressing this or how have they conquered it! A balanced approach can allow an insight into the personality, thinking patterns and character, etc.

 

[Mr D]

That assumes that the main reason for crime is the criminal's choice. That isn't always the case. Remember one of those ridiculous political slogans? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. In England (I can't speak for the rest of the UK) we don't care that there actually ARE causes of crime other than the criminal's choice.

As its usually going to be the criminals breaking criminal law they can make an impact. Other things a lesser impact or no impact.

How many criminals are going to be committing crimes without a choice? I would guess a low number. If I hold a gun to your head to force you to steal from a business then yes you could be said to not have a choice. Are there other circumstances where there isn't a choice?

 

[MikeJ]

This thread is two years old. If you've a point to make, why not put it in Time Out?

 

[Mr D]

This is a heart breaking story. Some crimes are hard, even impossible to understand due to the level of wickedness, but even murders can be reformed. There is a lot of fear generated within society by the term 'sex offender', 'murderer' is self explanatory. The main problem with the 'sex offender' is nobody really knows what that means with relation to the crime commited.

I've thought of this and wondered if applying some kind of classification such as class 1 sex offender, class 2, 3, 4 etc would help society to gain a more balanced understanding of sex offenders, where class simply defines the gravity of the sexual offence and the risk posed to the public. Class 1 would be those convicted of the least serious and with the least risk to the public. While the higher classes represent greater seriousness and risk.

I believe that some people are so heinous that there is no way they could ever be allowed back into the community, but some sex offenders have commited non contact crimes such as sexual innuendo at work, sexual malicious phone calls, streaking, public indecency, etc. Preventing them from working isn't making the community any safer if the mode of their crimes is by telephone, email or on the streets, in parks, stadiums, etc.

I think approaching each offender on their own unique terms is a way forward. Maybe an employer can have a lengthy meeting with offenders and see if they are willing to discuss what they've done and why then how are they addressing this or how have they conquered it! A balanced approach can allow an insight into the personality, thinking patterns and character, etc.

Some 'sex offenders' are relatively harmless. An old man caught short and having a wee by a bus stop in daylight is seen as a sex offender if he gets his tackle out. Stand between a nightclub and the local taxi rank on a Friday night you can see men and women having a wee in shop doorways, by bushes, in gardens etc - a biologic reaction no different overall than the old man but its not something people will complain about at the time so can get away with it.