Working away from home
- Thread starter fattony
- Start date
Upvote
0
- Original Poster
- #44
quite a debate going here, I think Ive decided what we be be offering:
2 hours over time per day they stay over plus further over time (so if they normally do a 10 hour day we pay 12 for the normal 10 hours) overtime is on top of that
Hotel with breakfast included
£30 allowance for lunch and dinner
I think thats fair
2 hours over time per day they stay over plus further over time (so if they normally do a 10 hour day we pay 12 for the normal 10 hours) overtime is on top of that
Hotel with breakfast included
£30 allowance for lunch and dinner
I think thats fair
Upvote
0
D
Dave Kinnel
Seems fair, make sure they get the receipts for the food so you claim the VAT etc back. From experience you may need to drum this into them!
Upvote
0
As DK says, make sure you get the receipts (there is a simple way to ensure this).
Also, the meal allowance is a limit, not a right to the £30 whether they spend it or not. Pay it whether they use it or not and tax implications kick in.
Upvote
0
What we do, where people have stayed away and gome above and beyond the norm, is paid for them to take their partner out for a nice meal somewhere, recognising that the person left at home has extra pressure on them while our employee is away. It doesn't have to be a big amount, but it does mean engender goodwill.
Upvote
0
You should approach HMRC and agree a daily allowance for meals that can then be paid tax free, and without need to report them on form P11D at the end of the year. This rate can vary in different parts of the country, depending on what the costs are. The process is known as a dispensation using this form
You tell HMRC what rates you want to use, and back them up with calculations. I have a client that is currently paying £30 a day. That seems high to some people, but even fish and chips for lunch is costing £9 and an evening meal is close to double that. If you can back up your figures with a reasoned case, including some receipts or exact prices, the figures will be accepted. Speak to your accountant if necessary about putting together the case for what you want to pay.
Anything else that you pay, including funding a meal for the employee and his partner back home is subject to tax and NI in the same way as any other payment.
You tell HMRC what rates you want to use, and back them up with calculations. I have a client that is currently paying £30 a day. That seems high to some people, but even fish and chips for lunch is costing £9 and an evening meal is close to double that. If you can back up your figures with a reasoned case, including some receipts or exact prices, the figures will be accepted. Speak to your accountant if necessary about putting together the case for what you want to pay.
Anything else that you pay, including funding a meal for the employee and his partner back home is subject to tax and NI in the same way as any other payment.
Upvote
0
D
Dave Kinnel
Tosh again, depends how you claim the amount back. Any reasonable accountant or half witted individual can easily set these expenses against tax. Hell just have a look at a SA form and there are even notes on how/where to claim these expenses.
And why over complicate things by arranging dispensation, simply pay the receipt value and everyone, including HMRC, are happy.
No offence but I hope your not an accountant David.
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote
0
C
crphillips
I think £20-£30 a day is fair enough. You are asking them to leave their family and friends and basically leave their life behind for a couple of weeks. If you want them to work away again then treat them well. Just put it into your price when quoting for the work.
Upvote
0
I have read this thread with interest and I will outline why I have the attitude I have to employees working away.
30 years ago I was a partner in an industrial painting company and all the contracts we had were with council's, painting the street lighting. These contracts involved working away for months at a time.
Instead of putting the whole team (six of us) in a hotel we, my partner and me, rented a 4 bedroom fully furnished house in the area we were working. We paid for all the food shopping including beer every week and travel expenses once a month for those with families that wanted to go home for a long weekend.
On days when it was raining and we couldn't work we paid for the lads beer because non of us wanted to sit in the house, so we went to the pub, we didn't have to but we did because the normal working hours were 7am - 7pm seven days a week. This worked as we normally finished contracts early.
However,when I owned the digital touch screen business we used to send sales guys away to Scotland and/or Brighton for a couple of days at a time. The first time I gave them enough cash to cover a hotel and fuel and asked for receipts, I didn't get any receipts. So after this I booked the hotel for them and only paid for any fuel if I got a receipt.
When I sold a master license to a company in another country part of the deal included a salesman on the ground in that country for five days.
One sales guys as asked to go moaned that the hotel I had booked him into didn't have a golf course attached and asked if he could take his wife with him, and he made those statements in that exact order!
I told him if he wanted to play golf when he wasn't working then he could as it wasn't up to me what he did after work.Also, if he wanted to take his wife, I said he could as long as it didn't distract him from is work, which is why he was going in the first place. I later found out he and his wife spent 2 days sightseeing in Dubai when he should have been working.
Now on my new project I go with my sales guys and pay for the hotel, travel, food and beer and get great results.In the future when the sales guys work away I will book them into the hotel we are working with and they can have a meal at the hotel.I will reimburse their fuel costs on production of receipts, no receipts no money but I will not pay for their beer.
How other business owners treat their staff whilst they are working away is up to them.
There are number of comments n this thread on about how employees are working away from home and are away from their families etc. Well they do have a choice in the matter, they don't have to go. And some employees think that because they are working away that everything should be paid for them, they should eat in restaurants and have beer money to compensate for them being away from home and that last statement is based on my experience of sending people away to work.
30 years ago I was a partner in an industrial painting company and all the contracts we had were with council's, painting the street lighting. These contracts involved working away for months at a time.
Instead of putting the whole team (six of us) in a hotel we, my partner and me, rented a 4 bedroom fully furnished house in the area we were working. We paid for all the food shopping including beer every week and travel expenses once a month for those with families that wanted to go home for a long weekend.
On days when it was raining and we couldn't work we paid for the lads beer because non of us wanted to sit in the house, so we went to the pub, we didn't have to but we did because the normal working hours were 7am - 7pm seven days a week. This worked as we normally finished contracts early.
However,when I owned the digital touch screen business we used to send sales guys away to Scotland and/or Brighton for a couple of days at a time. The first time I gave them enough cash to cover a hotel and fuel and asked for receipts, I didn't get any receipts. So after this I booked the hotel for them and only paid for any fuel if I got a receipt.
When I sold a master license to a company in another country part of the deal included a salesman on the ground in that country for five days.
One sales guys as asked to go moaned that the hotel I had booked him into didn't have a golf course attached and asked if he could take his wife with him, and he made those statements in that exact order!
I told him if he wanted to play golf when he wasn't working then he could as it wasn't up to me what he did after work.Also, if he wanted to take his wife, I said he could as long as it didn't distract him from is work, which is why he was going in the first place. I later found out he and his wife spent 2 days sightseeing in Dubai when he should have been working.
Now on my new project I go with my sales guys and pay for the hotel, travel, food and beer and get great results.In the future when the sales guys work away I will book them into the hotel we are working with and they can have a meal at the hotel.I will reimburse their fuel costs on production of receipts, no receipts no money but I will not pay for their beer.
How other business owners treat their staff whilst they are working away is up to them.
There are number of comments n this thread on about how employees are working away from home and are away from their families etc. Well they do have a choice in the matter, they don't have to go. And some employees think that because they are working away that everything should be paid for them, they should eat in restaurants and have beer money to compensate for them being away from home and that last statement is based on my experience of sending people away to work.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
B
Bri
Similarly, when we worked away we'd all stay in the same hotel/gust house, we'd stand the bill for the evening meal and one beer with it, the rest they had to dip into their own pockets for.
As said before horses for courses.
However stayed in Llanberis this weekend and noted that there were only a handful of hotels and the most filling food on the menu that I could see.
As said before horses for courses.
However stayed in Llanberis this weekend and noted that there were only a handful of hotels and the most filling food on the menu that I could see.
Upvote
0
If you don't want people to take offence, starting the posting with "Tosh Again" is not a good start.
The self assessment return is for the business (if a sole trader) to claim the payment as an expense. That's not at issue - the expenses paid to the employees are clearly tax deductible. The question, as I addressed it is whether they should be subject to tax.
The payments while working away, if within the agreed amounts or if backed up by receipts are not taxable. However, if a payment is made for an employee to take a meal at home, then that is taxable. Of course, any half wit can fraudulently claim that it was spent on something else, and hope that the Revenue doesn't find out. I worked on the assumption that the OP wanted to do things properly, not fiddle expenses away in some apparently allowable heading. Somebody going to do t hat is hardly likely to
The whole point of a dispensation is to avoid the need to get receipts from the employees, to avoid the need to pay them different amounts every night depending on where they've eaten and how much they've spent, and then to have to report it all on form P11d at the end of the year. For the sake of one form and one letter, it makes life much easier, Far from "over complicating" things, a dispensatoin makes life much easier.
Upvote
0
None of that as ay similarity to the mischief you've posted earlier. Nor is it a fair example of the typical manual worker away on jobs.
It is most definitely the opposite to the sort of jobs/trip the OP would have his team undertake - unless he's suddenly branched out into a different industry.
Upvote
0
mischief, me?! Really what is a reasonable amount, if anything, to give an employee for an evening meal whilst they are working away from home, £5 gets them a chippy, £10 gets then a meal in a pub, £20 gets them a meal in an Indian or Chinese or £40 gets them a nice meal in a decent restaurant.When they are at home do they out in restaurants during the week? probably not, so why should they expect their company to pay for them to eat in restaurants just because they are working away?
Out of interest what do long distance wagon drivers get as an allowance for overnight stays, taken they have a bed behind the driving seat,a fridge and probably a cooker in the cab?
I understand that the examples I have posted are not about blue collar workers working away from home.For one they would have to be on site at set times etc.But workers are workers and are there to work and just because they are away from home doesn't mean they need to be compensated by... well...being fed!...only joking.
BTW, 5 star hotels are populated by the employer getting the contracts that will require the employees away to work and American companies that pay daft expenses for their staff.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Still more mischief eh?
When they are at home do they out in restaurants during the week? probably not, so why should they expect their company to pay for them to eat in restaurants just because they are working away?
Out of interest what do long distance wagon drivers get as an allowance for overnight stays, taken they have a bed behind the driving seat,a fridge and probably a cooker in the cab?
I understand that the examples I have posted are not about blue collar workers working away from home.For one they would have to be on site at set times etc.But workers are workers and are there to work and just because they are away from home doesn't mean they need to be compensated by... well...being fed!...only joking.
BTW, 5 star hotels are populated by the employer getting the contracts that will require the employees away to work and American companies that pay daft expenses for their staff.
Like i say, unless the OP has suddenly changed trades, much of your content is irrelevant.
Upvote
0
The company I used to work for didn't pay overtime when we worked away but booked our hotels for us with breakfast included and gave us £20 a night each for food and drinks. Travel expenses didn't come into it as we travelled in company vans. Also 3 events at Christmas time as a thank you for the year were well appreciated.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
Latest Articles
-
90,000 jobs are heading your way. Your rates bill might get there firstIf you run a business in Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds or Bristol, you were probably told some...- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 8 min read
-
How to Price a New Product or Service: We Asked UKBFOn 5 August, @Data Swami posted in the General Business Forum with a question that ought to have...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 7 min read
-
70 years of director bans in six months: Companies House has stopped asking nicelyCompanies House published a release on August 6th 2026 that every company director should read...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 7 min read
-
MTD for Income Tax: your first quarterly update is due 7 August.If you are a sole trader or landlord and your gross income from self-employment and property was...- maka
- Updated:
- 4 min read
-
Andy Burnham's Manifesto for Small Business, and How It Stacks Up Against Count BinfaceIf all goes to plan (or rather, to Labour's timetable), Andy Burnham will be sworn in as Prime...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 5 min read