Working away from home

[fattony]

We have a job coming up which will involve staying away for a week at a time for a maximum of 2 weeks, is there a guide anywhere for what employees should be paid for this?

I was thinking 4 hours overtime, hotel paid for and £30 a day for food.

Is that about right or more than I need to do?

Thanks

 

[Dave Kinnel]

Providing you paid your normal wage and working no more hours, and presuming all accommodation and maybe one meal a day are paid for that's it.

Why the overtime and why £30 a day on food?

 

[KateCB]

I *think* that the employer has a duty to ensure that you are no worse off - my husband received a fuel allowance for getting to/from the place of work if it was over 50 miles away; he has to eat wherever he is, so no allowance for food was given as it is not considered an expense - you woud do it anyway, and then the cost of the board/lodging was paid for, which included a breakfast.

Drinks/food in the evening are NOT an allowable expense, thats up to you!

No overtime, you only work the same amount of time.

 

[Podge]

What does the employment contract say about working away from home?

 

[fattony]

It's not written yet they've only been employed 3 weeks, it should be ready for next week.

They may work extra hours but the overtime is more of a gesture for working away from home, the hotel will do breakfast so the £30 is for lunch and evening meal or is that not required?

 

[Super Simon]

It's not written yet they've only been employed 3 weeks, it should be ready for next week.

They may work extra hours but the overtime is more of a gesture for working away from home, the hotel will do breakfast so the £30 is for lunch and evening meal or is that not required?

Where are you sending them for lunch and dinner? Waitrose? :O

 

[Eagle]

£20 a day excluding breakfast is a more reasonable figure but it does depend on the hotel - and how nice you are!

 

[KateCB]

Generally lunch and dinner is not included - thats up to you - in true terms the employer only has to pay for things you would not normally have to pay for - i.e. lodgings and extra fuel - you eat lunch and dinner when working from your 'home base' and that is not paid for by your employer, therefore they have no responsibility to pay for it when you are 'away from home' either!

 

[acewoodturner]

I would pay them the extra for the meals. It is far more expensive eating in hotels than it is at home and your staff shouldnt be out of pocket. paying them the extra 4 hours overtime is a good gesture as well. Their families can be incurring more expenses due to one of the parents being away. I am thinking of stuff like babysitters, when one partner has a commitment such as evening classes and the other partner is normally there to see to the kids.
Not only that but if you really piss off your staff by being tight they might decide to look for a job elsewhere.

Mike

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Somewhere I have a leaflet from IR. It quotes an agreement with the TUC for truck drivers to get £7 towards evening meal only. Any more than that and you will have to pay the tax on it or take it back from them.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

It's not written yet they've only been employed 3 weeks, it should be ready for next week.

They may work extra hours but the overtime is more of a gesture for working away from home, the hotel will do breakfast so the £30 is for lunch and evening meal or is that not required?

Where will they be dining every night? Restaurants? You could buy a two course meal in quite a nice little restaurant for that sort of price, so I think it's a little too much.

It depends what you expect them to buy, really. A sandwich, a packet of crisps and a drink could amount to £2-4. Even a hot meal in a local cafe could be £5-6. £15 per meal is a little excessive, unless they plan on buying fillet steaks for evening dinner every night.

 

[fattony]

Thanks, the hotel would provide breakfast, so may consider £20, this is the question where do I expect them to eat, what's reasonable?

Just want to be fair but not to soft

 

[S-Marketing]

I *think* that the employer has a duty to ensure that you are no worse off - my husband received a fuel allowance for getting to/from the place of work if it was over 50 miles away; he has to eat wherever he is, so no allowance for food was given as it is not considered an expense - you woud do it anyway, and then the cost of the board/lodging was paid for, which included a breakfast.

Drinks/food in the evening are NOT an allowable expense, thats up to you!

No overtime, you only work the same amount of time.

Sounds like your husband has a rubbish job

 

[Atilla]

Generally lunch and dinner is not included - thats up to you - in true terms the employer only has to pay for things you would not normally have to pay for - i.e. lodgings and extra fuel - you eat lunch and dinner when working from your 'home base' and that is not paid for by your employer, therefore they have no responsibility to pay for it when you are 'away from home' either!

And Tony would have zero chance of getting anyone to work under your proposal.

Eating when away from home costs considerably more, hence payment required.

Regarding the overtime he mentioned. Some pay this as a way of 'sweetening the deal'. Or it is paid at a slightly enhanced rate (extra hours) over and above those done.

 

[Atilla]

Thanks, the hotel would provide breakfast, so may consider £20, this is the question where do I expect them to eat, what's reasonable?

Just want to be fair but not to soft

Guys we work with get £18/day dinner allowance - strictly no alcohol in the bill. Breakfast provided.

The hotels are always Premier Inn or equivalent.

As for where to dine. Usually the eatery attached to the hotel, Harvester/Toby etc

And for the tight wads on here, £18 doesn't go very far.

 

[Psl]

And Tony would have zero chance of getting anyone to work under your proposal.

Eating when away from home costs considerably more, hence payment required.

Regarding the overtime he mentioned. Some pay this as a way of 'sweetening the deal'. Or it is paid at a slightly enhanced rate (extra hours) over and above those done.

Why does eating away from home cost considerably more?

OP, when my sales guys worked on selling advertising on kiosks in either Scotland or Brighton I paid for their hotel room,they didn't get anything for a meal but their fuel bill was paid on production of receipts.

 

[Atilla]

Why does eating away from home cost considerably more?

OP, when my sales guys worked on selling advertising on kiosks in either Scotland or Brighton I paid for their hotel room,they didn't get anything for a meal but their fuel bill was paid on production of receipts.

You being serious??

Unless of course you eat out every night.

 

[Psl]

You being serious??

Unless of course you eat out every night.

Yes I am serious. You can just as easily get a takeaway whilst working away or eat out for the same price as you eat out local to your home. Or do you mean it costs more to having a home cooked meal?

 

[Deleted member 61074]

Why does eating away from home cost more? I can't believe you asked this, unless you eat in restaurants or have a takeaway every night!

A home cooked meal would cost £2 per head, cheapest takeaway is £6. Homemade sandwiches 50p, bought sandwiches £2-£4.

 

[Atilla]

Yes I am serious. You can just as easily get a takeaway whilst working away or eat out for the same price as you eat out local to your home. Or do you mean it costs more to having a home cooked meal?

That's the point though. Most people don't eat out everyday!

you're away on a job stuck in the hotel. You need to eat. Not unreasonable to visit the average pub/restaurant. Company put you there, company pays (within reason). And it is a good enough reason for the taxman.

 

[Psl]

Why does eating away from home cost more? I can't believe you asked this, unless you eat in restaurants or have a takeaway every night!

A home cooked meal would cost £2 per head, cheapest takeaway is £6. Homemade sandwiches 50p, bought sandwiches £2-£4.

I understand now that the comment related to home cooked meals and not eating out.

So when the workers are working and go home every night do they not buy sandwiches from a local shop/supermarket or go to the local chippy at lunch time? This is at their own expense so they can pay for this whilst working away.However,I agree that some form of allowance for an evening meal should be paid but most food allowances paid to workers whilst working away are spent on beer! with a quick bite on the way back to the hotel.

And no I don't eat in restaurants or have a takeaway every night.

 

[Psl]

That's the point though. Most people don't eat out everyday!

you're away on a job stuck in the hotel. You need to eat. Not unreasonable to visit the average pub/restaurant. Company put you there, company pays (within reason). And it is a good enough reason for the taxman.

I agree and I understand that the point was about home cooked meals.

 

[Atilla]

Nor do you have any idea about working away from home.

 

[Psl]

Nor do you have any idea about working away from home.

And how would know that then?

Workers have a choice, accept what is offered and work away or don't accept it and don't work away.

And for your information I have worked away more times than I care to remember but always as the business owner not as an employee who expects everything to be paid for.

 

[Podge]

"not as an employee who expects everything to be paid for"

And there was me thinking you had redeemed yourself.

 

[iksol]

I'm really surprised that some people think it's unreasonable to be given an evening meal allowance while working away.

I've worked in the IT industry for 20 years, and it's accepted that it's often necessary to work away from home. It's also standard practice to have hotels/breakfast/evening meal/travel paid for. For an evening meal (inc. drink) the usual allowance is £25.

To Psl, who asked why eating away from home costs more, I shall explain. When you're at home you have the facility of a cooker/fridge/utensils, so eating at home is relatively inexpensive. But last time I checked, hotels don't provide these in their rooms. Therefore you have no choice but to go out to eat. Have I ever gone to a take-away? No chance, I don't see why I should eat junk food. So restaurant is the only viable option.

If an employee is working away, to some extent they are making a small personal sacrifice, since they are separated from their family, and prevented from going about their usual evening pastimes/activities. So I think it would be remiss of an employer not to go to some expense.

I'm dumbfounded that people in this thread can't see this, it's self-evident to me.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

If an employee is working away, to some extent they are making a small personal sacrifice, since they are separated from their family, and prevented from going about their usual evening pastimes/activities. So I think it would be remiss of an employer not to go to some expense.

Absolutely

It's always amazed me how many employers do not see the benefits of feeding and watering their staff.

I worked on the Mirror for a while and the Sales manager said that if we hit the £100k target we would be taken for a drink the next day. True to her word she took 12 of us to a local bar, ordered 12 bottles of Bud, supped hers and hollered 'who's round is it next?' We'd been there ten minutes and she was deadly serious. I stuck £50 over the bar, told everybody to order what they wanted and left. She never forgave me but the point was made and staff motivation went out of the window.

On another occasion whilst working for a major national I arrived at the hotel to find that a shared room had been booked for me and another sales guy who i'd never met. Not a problem except for the fact that the boss had got a deal on rooms with double beds and expected us to sleep together to save a few quid.

The point i'm making is you'll get far more from your staff if you look after them.

One final funny.......another sales manager at the same company would take high achieving reps out for lunch. A microwaved pork pie and an orange juice. At the annual residential sales meeting he asked who would like brandy and a cigar after the evening meal. Of 14 people only 3 smoked and 2 more were teetotal. The bill? 14 King Edward Imperials and 14 large ones

 

[Arhob1]

I have to say I am surprised at the miserly attitude of some people here. Fair enough if your margins are very low.

I used to run a team of 100 Engineers and if you treated them well it always paid dividends in them going the extra mile for you ALWAYS. They might hate the company but if you look after them then they will have personal loyalty to you and will look after you.

When asking Engineers to perhaps work 100's of miles form home for a week I would always make sure they were in a decent hotel very close to where they were working regardless of cost with all meals paid for, a newspaper if they wanted it + 2 pints or so if they wanted them at night. Occasionaly I'd get the odd one who had some adult TV stuff on his bill but I'd pay it and have a quiet word. Some of these guys had never stayed in a decent hotel before and had been out of pocket elsewhere so appreciated being looked after.

Why did I go to this cost when I could have perhaps saved £40 per day? because I treat people how I want to be treated. because they often have the only vehicle in the household so their wife is incovenienved or has to use taxis or buses or whatever. Because if he was eating at home with his family then food/cooking etc for his wife/kids might come to £10, adding him in to their meal might only cost an extra £2 at home so why should he pick teh bill up for his evening meal when working away? As other people have said sometimes these Engineers wifes work to make ends meet and they then have to make childcare arrangements and so on. When I had groups of Engineers at the bar in the evenings when away yes they discussed sport etc etc etc BUT they also spent a lot of time talking about their issues and sharing best practice etc.

I could go on and on.

To the OP I think you have it about right. Look after them and they will look after you.

 

[Podge]

It's heartening to see that some employers know that their staff are human beings and treat them as such.

 

[patientlady]

Why does eating away from home cost considerably more?

OP, when my sales guys worked on selling advertising on kiosks in either Scotland or Brighton I paid for their hotel room,they didn't get anything for a meal but their fuel bill was paid on production of receipts.

I'm glad i don't work for u

 

[Dave Kinnel]

Somewhere I have a leaflet from IR. It quotes an agreement with the TUC for truck drivers to get £7 towards evening meal only. Any more than that and you will have to pay the tax on it or take it back from them.

What tosh, you don't have to pay tax or give it back.

I used to employ about 30 field based staff who would frequently be working away from home for a week or two at a time. Although you don't have to pay meals etc, we used to let them put one meal a day on expenses, how much they spent was up to them so long as it was reasonable. What I found (and maybe because I lead by example as I would sometimes work away with them) was that when working away together they would have a cheap meal, or claim nothing for Monday - Wednesday then a big blow out Thursday night with good food, wine and beer all on the bill, their way of finishing the week on a high.

As for overtime the way the work came in was quarterly and very flexible, the engineers who finished their quarters work early could either have the time off, paid in full, or do these big jobs at double time. This worked fantastically because, bar a few "plodders" who weren't interested in working harder than they had to, we got all the work done on time or early, plus the best of best doing the "working away jobs" which were generally for the prestigious and blue chip companies (do you get blue chip companies these days?).

At the same time, the engineers normal working week would see them staying away for maybe one night every two weeks, all part of their territory, this involved no overtime payments and one meal a day being "sensible" with the bill, alcohol allowed.

 

[DancingWithPoodles]

How many people are you sending 5? If you sending 5 it gonna be cheaper for you to send your wife go and cook for them. She is not bringing more than £150 a day is she...

 

[Dave Kinnel]

How many people are you sending 5? If you sending 5 it gonna be cheaper for you to send your wife go and cook for them. She is not bringing more than £150 a day is she...

It was anywhere from three to twenty.

If I sent my wife to cook they would all be off ill with food poisoning.

 

[iksol]

How many people are you sending 5? If you sending 5 it gonna be cheaper for you to send your wife go and cook for them. She is not bringing more than £150 a day is she...

Are you taking the mick?

You're not are you..... sheesh

So where would this wife cook? Have you ever been in a Premier Inn or Travelodge that has cooking facilities and a table?

Do you think this wife would have any objection to travelling to the other end of the country just to cook?

What if they have kids, and they need to arrange childcare?

I really hope this is a wind-up.

Look, it is expensive having to send employees to work away from home. But you need to factor that into your costs and make sure the customer picks it up.

 

[DancingWithPoodles]

What is so strange about my proposal? When I started my business my girlfriend was packing the orders... If she goes for 5 days she will save the family £700 and kids are just an excuse for women not to work

 

[willitbe]

£15....Extra a day and Hotel paid for is ample for many people.

Start low and work upwards, if you start getting a lot of working away, you will only have to go upwards from your Generous 4 hrs overtime and 30 quid a day!!

 

[willitbe]

What is so strange about my proposal? When I started my business my girlfriend was packing the orders... If she goes for 5 days she will save the family £700 and kids are just an excuse for women not to work

And also a guarantee that the future has more idiots like you!!

 

[Deleted member 61074]

I also don't think overtime is really necessary but if you want to pay some extra why not cover travelling time?

Other than that I feel you should cover hotel / breakfast / evening meal. Lunch should be up to your employees, unless you provide lunch at the primary workplace so they are losing a benefit.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

What tosh, you don't have to pay tax or give it back.

Not tosh. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/income-tax/brief2409.htm

If it was open to give as much as you like tax free why not £100?

 

[Dave Kinnel]

Not tosh. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/income-tax/brief2409.htm

If it was open to give as much as you like tax free why not £100?

You obviously missed this bit:-

Do employers have to use the benchmark scale rates?
Employers do not have to use the benchmark rates. They can reimburse their employees' actual expenditure or apply to HMRC to agree a scale rate appropriate for their business needs in a dispensation.


The link you provided was for tax free payments rather than reimbursement of expenses where receipts are submitted.