Windows User? Zero Day Security Issue - Please don't ignore

As second who approaches these things as a user, not a techie, flavours of Linux have been ready for business for years! Indeed, a vast majority of businesses use it without knowing.

I guess 80-90% of users use computers for the same sort of stuff (like smartphones):
Emails
Documents
Spreadsheets
Browsing Inc using web apps

Sure, there will be more specific needs, but even things like graphics, DTP, editing etc are well covered.

The issue is both IT departments and public (executives) perception (around Microsoft/Windows/Office etc) and the potential need to 'convert' to another OS.

I think a similar way about Apple in business!
 
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Why do men get so heated up about software?

Who cares? I mean, seriously, who cares?

Certain activities are always done using certain types of SW and OSs. Companies have to work with other companies. They also have to employ people. That's how we get stuff done. Very often this means using the same software and using software that people are very familiar with.

In film, the studio and/or producers will put the various bits of software to be used into the contract. This so that a project in Avid's Media Composer or Premiere Pro can be further worked on in London, LA or NZ. The fact that I do not like either of those packages interests no one. The same applies to the audio side of things - ProTools or Reaper - nobody ever asks. They use whatever is the standard. And even before the film goes into production, the script must be written in Final Draft because everybody else will be using Final Draft.

Try working in a major newspaper or magazine - it's InDesign on Apples or nothing. End of story! And the pictures will all be tweaked in Photoshop. That is what the designers learned to use at university, that's what the IT dept. knows how to fix and incorporate into the network, so that's what gets used!

In an office, it's Word on a PC running Windows. And Mavis in Accounts cannot enter the books on a Linux machine because she uses Sage or Xero.

Even if the sun shines out of the Linux rectum, it is not a standard. It may be the greatest and bestest OS of all time - but key bits of standard software just are not available for that OS.

There have been all sorts of attempts at creating better OSs but they all fail in the end because the surrounding infrastructure just isn't there and therefore the developers and the money can no longer keep up with hardware developments. Some, like BeOS, were pretty decent and stable, but without a large number of users and software packages using that OS, they drift away over time.

What the people who get passionate about software fail to get (IMO) is that the most expensive pieces of equipment are the people. And in a company, everybody has to be singing from the same hymnsheet. So even if the SW package does cost £50 p.c.m., that rather pales into insignificance against the £3,000 to £4,000 or more that the person using it is costing!
Sure, there will be more specific needs, but even things like graphics, DTP, editing etc are well covered.
By the same hymnsheet, I meant that everybody in graphics or DTP, or video editing will be using standard SW that is just not available for Linux.

Yes, there are some rare exceptions of popular and industrially accepted packages that have gone out on a limb and ported to Linux, but the only ones I can think of are DaVinci-Resolve for video and Reaper for audio - and they are far from being the main standard SW in their fields (except DaVinci-Resolve is THE standard for colouring work for feature films, but not for editing).

In DTP, it is now all InDesign, with very few still using Corel and Quark Xpress and none of those are on Linux.
 
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fisicx

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Did I say it was perfect? I said people say Linux is hard to use, but Windows so often seems to need mucking around with registry settings and the like.
Don't think I've needed to go anywhere near the registry for years. Whilst my preference is to use Apple the Windows PC I need to use as well just works. It boots up, I login and do my thing. So simple. I tried linux and just gave up. The application I needed to use wasn't available.
 
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DontAsk

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Don't think I've needed to go anywhere near the registry for years.
Agreed, I can't remember the last time.

As a programmer, I've used Linux either on bare metal PC or via virtualisation for over ten years. I'll just say that most complaints about Linux are overblown. It depends on what business you are in. If you are a tech company it can certainly work well for you.
Most computer users are not programmers and are not in tech business. To them, Linux is simply not a solution.
 
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gpietersz

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    Don't think I've needed to go anywhere near the registry for years.
    The first post in this thread says you need to do so right now.
    In an office, it's Word on a PC running Windows.
    Quite a lot of people in this forum use LibreOffice and do not have problems.
    And Mavis in Accounts cannot enter the books on a Linux machine because she uses Sage or Xero.
    Xero is web based, is it not? So it works on Linux.
    Certain activities are always done using certain types of SW and OSs.
    As I said, if you need something that is not available for Linux, then that is true. However, especially after the rise of SaaS ("cloud" software) this is not a problem for most people.
    I guess 80-90% of users use computers for the same sort of stuff (like smartphones):
    Exactly. All the common stuff works fine on Linux, and easy to switch to.

    Some people cannot work on Linux, is somehow generalised to no one can.

    It also ignores the existence of things like VMs.

    Why do men get so heated up about software?
    Only men? Women in IT and engineering can get just as heated up about it. If its something you are interested in, you get heated up about it. Have you never got heated up about things realted to your work?

    Most computer users are not programmers and are not in tech business. To them, Linux is simply not a solution.
    Depends on the business. Linux is a better solution for typical office use, especially in a small business, and I speak from experience with regard to single digit numbers of people. I think the critical points where Windows might be better are 1) if you already have in-house IT support who know Windows are do not want to learn something new or 2) when you have thousands of desktops with complex configurations and use tools to manage them centrally that only work with Windows.

    Linux needs less support in many ways (especially if machines are managed individually rather than using central tools), and there are other significant cost advantages (e.g. you can use hardware for longer), and its easier to administer (no need to track licenses are being complied with), and better security and reliability (so less risk of disruption) - e.g. the chance of being hit by malware, especially things like ransomware is far lower.
     
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    gpietersz

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    I left the OS wars behind in the 80s, after I grew up.
    You seem to be taking part in one right now :)

    The way I think of it is not some solution is always the best, but consider options and pros and cons.

    Is there anything else you buy that you never consider alternative suppliers for?
     
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    gpietersz

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    The only considerations are, does it do what I want, at a price that I am willing to pay? If the answer is yes, it could be running North Korea's OS for all I care.
    So you

    1. Only think the upfront price matters, not long term financial or business implications
    2. You do not care about privacy
    3. You do not care about security
    4. You do not care about reliability

    All true?
     
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    japancool

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    1. Only think the upfront price matters, not long term financial or business implications
    2. You do not care about privacy
    3. You do not care about security
    4. You do not care about reliability

    All of which fall under "does it do what I want" and "at a price I am willing to pay". I realise you might struggle with that concept.
     
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    japancool

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    Ignoring the personal insult, then you do need to consider alternatives.

    Well, you did take a swipe by suggesting that I don't think those things you listed are important, so...

    The point is, the alternatives don't do what I need, and certainly not at a price I'm willing to pay, whether that price be in time or in money.

    And no, I don't "need" to consider an alternative. I'm perfectly happy with the solution I have in place, there is no pressing requirement that needs an alternative to be considered. If I'm happy eating potatoes, why do I need to consider eating quinoa?
     
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    gpietersz

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    Why do I need to look at them at all, if what I have now does what I want? I
    Because something else might do it better.

    "Price" comes down to many things, not just the money you pay.
    Exactly my point. If it was the price you pay, its very easy to asses. It is complex so how do you evaluate all the factors involved?
     
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    japancool

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    Because something else might do it better.

    And it might not. There is still no imperative to change if the current solution performs satisfactorily.

    Exactly my point. If it was the price you pay, its very easy to asses. It is complex so how do you evaluate all the factors involved?

    If you want to do an analysis, it's perfectly possible to list all the factors and put a monetary value on it. Large companies do that all the time.
     
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    gpietersz

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    And it might not. There is still no imperative to change if the current solution performs satisfactorily.
    Define "satisfactorily". If your software is good at meeting all the factors we mentioned (and others such as productivity) I would love to know what it is, because very, very little software I have come across does.

    If you want to do an analysis, it's perfectly possible to list all the factors and put a monetary value on it. Large companies do that all the time.
    I am more than well aware of that.

    Its no necessarily something that works well though, and it is certainly not easy. Plenty of large companies make bad decisions after that sort of exercise.

    That was not my question though. I asked how you do it.
     
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    fisicx

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    Define "satisfactorily". If your software is good at meeting all the factors we mentioned (and others such as productivity) I would love to know what it is, because very, very little software I have come across does.
    Many years ago a company I worked for planned to use some software that almost did everything we wanted. But there was one component didn’t match our procedures. We could have paid for customisation but the far simpler solution was to change our procedures.

    I agree the may be alternatives and they may be better. But the cost of change for an organisation may make using the alternative unviable.

    Linux may suit you and your business but if windows does the job for others why change for little benefit.

    I prefer potatoes to quinoa.
     
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    japancool

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    If your software is good at meeting all the factors we mentioned (and others such as productivity) I would love to know what it is, because very, very little software I have come across does.

    You don't know either what I do, or what our software does. Why on earth would you care what it does, when it probably doesn't suit you?

    For all you know, I need software that beeps at me in the morning.

    At this point, you are simply being argumentative for the sake of trying to "win". You are free to carry on with, but I have no further interest in participating.
     
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    IanSuth

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    Just to add my two pennies worth.

    In the recruitment company worked for we had an old MD who was a tad tech adverse. When the internet happened she could not see it as anything more than a glorified fax machine (email) and newspapers (websites) therefore she would not allocate any budget. After a proof of concept in 1997 using a free AOL account on a spare machine (at that point only the receptionist/secretaries had PC's which were running wordperfect) she would agree to an actual server being set up but only if it could be done from saving on the newspaper budget (no joke)

    An old pc was loaded with Redhat 4.2 which the ops manager and I learnt from a book, we set it up to collect all email to the corporate domain and then 2 machines (1 for the secretaries and 1 for the consultants which sat by the fax machine) had an email account each to distribute it.

    Other than moving to Centos and the network changing from 10Base2 to wifi to ethernet then back to wifi the base system stayed the same until Mar 21. The main "server" hardware was only changed twice in that time and we also added a 2nd server running a customised open source CRM system sat on Ubuntu Linux.

    When we moved in with another company in 2009 they were running Windows Server SBS and we resisted being merged into their network as I was not convinced about their security arrangements. Luckily we also kept our own seperate adsl connection and were completely air gapped from them (as their outsourced IT support guy refused to touch linux)

    IN ALL THOSE 20+ YEARS WE HAD 1 VIRUS ON 1 MACHINE (a windows client PC) - in the 12 years we were in their building they had 3 or 4 major attacks, 1 of which took them down for a week and needed brand new install from scratch on all their machines. The joint accountant had to move up to our office and do all his work on one of our spare machines. They also did at least 2 major upgrades when a new Windows Server version required updated hardware and then updated recruitment software, which then needed a new Windows client version which also then needed new client PC's

    I am not a techie but I would argue for a company of up to 10-15 staff a simple Linux install is at least as "out of the box" as any MS solution. It is when you start trying to fiddle and get clever that the added options also become added complexities. And you can't beat the price, i did all the support from 2008 onwards and by making sure i had a cupboard containing a spare psu, HDD, fan, ethernet cables and DIMM's we were never down a machine for more than 30mins (although we did have to run for 3 days without the server UPS once when i needed to get a new battery for it). When a PC got old we would just buy the cheapest bearable quality one with bare Windows on it and run chrome, openoffice and thunderbird on it.
     
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    gpietersz

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    Linux may suit you and your business but if windows does the job for others why change for little benefit.
    You are assuming "little benefit"
    You don't know either what I do, or what our software does. Why on earth would you care what it does, when it probably doesn't suit you?
    Because I am interested in software per se and it sounds like you use software that meets far higher standards than the rest of us.
    Many years ago a company I worked for planned to use some software that almost did everything we wanted. But there was one component didn’t match our procedures. We could have paid for customisation but the far simpler solution was to change our procedures.
    That is extremely common, especially with complex systems like ERP where customisation tend to be very expensive. However customisation is almost always a lot more expensive than using off the shelf and is something you do when necessary, not on a whim. However we are not talking about customisation here, but one off the shelf system vs another.

    I agree the may be alternatives and they may be better. But the cost of change for an organisation may make using the alternative unviable.
    Yes, cost of change can make the alternative unviable, but you only know that if you know the cost of change.

    If you assume the cost of change is too high, then no one would ever change.

    There are times when very disruptive change is justified. The most disruptive I have been involved in (and pushed for from the supplier's side for a relatively small client) required customisation (not too bad as the system was designed to make the sort of customisation required simple, new client software (Windows only, replacing Windows + Unix - that grated!) for at least 15 businesses and a few hundred desktops and broke existing integrations (because we replaced a proprietary protocol with an open industry standard one - good in the long run, but not greeted with enthusiasm at the time) with custom desktop and website integrations.

    Why put up with all this? It was cheaper than fixing performance issues in the existing system, it would run on Linux instead of Solaris (so the client had more hardware choices in the future), meant we only needed to switch one or two more even smaller clients to entirely discontinue the old system and have large and small clients on the same core codebase. Less customisation was needed as it was more configurable and the code base was cleaner.

    I am not a techie but I would argue for a company of up to 10-15 staff a simple Linux install is at least as "out of the box" as any MS solution. It is when you start trying to fiddle and get clever that the added options also become added complexities. And you can't beat the price, i did all the support from 2008 onwards and by making sure i had a cupboard containing a spare psu, HDD, fan, ethernet cables and DIMM's we were never down a machine for more than 30mins (although we did have to run for 3 days without the server UPS once when i needed to get a new battery for it). When a PC got old we would just buy the cheapest bearable quality one with bare Windows on it and run chrome, openoffice and thunderbird on it.

    This is exactly the sort of use case I am thinking of. Where you increase reliability and security, and reduce maintenance cost. You got even greater benefit because you were able to do it yourself, but even if you use external support calling them out less often saves a lot of money.

    I have only ever done it internally with 5 people, but I think its true up to at least the sort of size you are talking about. It changes when you hire IT support people as its easier to recruit Windows support, especially low skilled people for small businesses. If you are admining individual desktops Linux is much easier to install and set up. If you have a standard image and standard hardware then it makes no difference.

    Do not fiddle or try to be clever! That is true of any OS. Only install software from official/supported repos (Linux speak for store - we had them for decades) etc. Use simple to administer distros etc.
     
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    IanSuth

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    You are assuming "little benefit"

    Because I am interested in software per se and it sounds like you use software that meets far higher standards than the rest of us.

    That is extremely common, especially with complex systems like ERP where customisation tend to be very expensive. However customisation is almost always a lot more expensive than using off the shelf and is something you do when necessary, not on a whim. However we are not talking about customisation here, but one off the shelf system vs another.


    Yes, cost of change can make the alternative unviable, but you only know that if you know the cost of change.

    If you assume the cost of change is too high, then no one would ever change.

    There are times when very disruptive change is justified. The most disruptive I have been involved in (and pushed for from the supplier's side for a relatively small client) required customisation (not too bad as the system was designed to make the sort of customisation required simple, new client software (Windows only, replacing Windows + Unix - that grated!) for at least 15 businesses and a few hundred desktops and broke existing integrations (because we replaced a proprietary protocol with an open industry standard one - good in the long run, but not greeted with enthusiasm at the time) with custom desktop and website integrations.

    Why put up with all this? It was cheaper than fixing performance issues in the existing system, it would run on Linux instead of Solaris (so the client had more hardware choices in the future), meant we only needed to switch one or two more even smaller clients to entirely discontinue the old system and have large and small clients on the same core codebase. Less customisation was needed as it was more configurable and the code base was cleaner.



    This is exactly the sort of use case I am thinking of. Where you increase reliability and security, and reduce maintenance cost. You got even greater benefit because you were able to do it yourself, but even if you use external support calling them out less often saves a lot of money.

    I have only ever done it internally with 5 people, but I think its true up to at least the sort of size you are talking about. It changes when you hire IT support people as its easier to recruit Windows support, especially low skilled people for small businesses. If you are admining individual desktops Linux is much easier to install and set up. If you have a standard image and standard hardware then it makes no difference.

    Do not fiddle or try to be clever! That is true of any OS. Only install software from official/supported repos (Linux speak for store - we had them for decades) etc. Use simple to administer distros etc.
    Actually as i was doing IT recruitment I would say as soon as we had the influx of Eastern European techies it became at least as easy to hire Linux techies. I reckon 90%+ of the sys admins working in data centres (at least in the South East) are/were from Poland or the Baltic countries.
     
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    I am not a techie but I would argue for a company of up to 10-15 staff a simple Linux install is at least as "out of the box" as any MS solution.
    We have two linked machines running the ancient operating system BeOS - they have been running faultlessly for over 20 years!

    I cannot honestly say that I like Windows or Apple OS, but if one wants (or must) use 'standard' software, one is forced to pick either Apple or MS. And companies, customers and all sorts of other people like employees insist on using standard software.

    DTP means Adobe. Engineering and architecture mean Autocad. Audio means ProTools, Reaper, Logic. Film and broadcasting mean Avid and Adobe Premiere. CGI means Maya. General office work means MS Office. All Windows or Mac. Only one is ported to Linux.

    Your employees come ready-schooled in those packages. Your customers and partner companies are using those tools. Your suppliers are using those tools. In many industries, the software you use will be written into your contracts of supply.

    Yes, there are workarounds and there are alternative software packages that 99% of the time are pretty damn Mickey Mouse, but why bother? Running a company is hard enough as it is, without creating all kinds of unnecessary and self-inflicted problems!

    By not using standard software, you are making life difficult for yourself.
     
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    IanSuth

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    We have two linked machines running the ancient operating system BeOS - they have been running faultlessly for over 20 years!

    I cannot honestly say that I like Windows or Apple OS, but if one wants (or must) use 'standard' software, one is forced to pick either Apple or MS. And companies, customers and all sorts of other people like employees insist on using standard software.

    DTP means Adobe. Engineering and architecture mean Autocad. Audio means ProTools, Reaper, Logic. Film and broadcasting mean Avid and Adobe Premiere. CGI means Maya. General office work means MS Office. All Windows or Mac. Only one is ported to Linux.

    Your employees come ready-schooled in those packages. Your customers and partner companies are using those tools. Your suppliers are using those tools. In many industries, the software you use will be written into your contracts of supply.

    Yes, there are workarounds and there are alternative software packages that 99% of the time are pretty damn Mickey Mouse, but why bother? Running a company is hard enough as it is, without creating all kinds of unnecessary and self-inflicted problems!

    By not using standard software, you are making life difficult for yourself.
    Don't want to get into an argument, you know your business and you need your tools. But i would argue having spent 27 years working either alongside or a cross a desk form the engineering recruiter that Engineering & Architecture are not "Autocad", even those 2 use differing versions. Things like Catia and Solidworks are at least as prevalent as Autocad in automotive and aerospace. There were also packages whose name escapes me know that were the defacto for surface mounted design work

    As more and more software is becoming Saas the platform is becoming less relevant, I spent the last decade dealing with software houses who were moving in that direction as it is a better charging model for them.

    As a recruiter most of what we did that wasnt using our inhouse CRM was either trawling online databases/advertising on online boards, reading/sending emails, reading, editing CV's (Libreoffice is better at dealing with older versions of Word and editing pdf's than MSOffice is), so we didnt need to be inside the MS Sphere so why make our lives more expensive
     
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    gpietersz

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    so we didnt need to be inside the MS Sphere so why make our lives more expensive
    Its not about the cost to me: the cost of desktop software is usually very small compared to other expenses of getting work done (like people's time). Its about things like security, transparency, avoiding vendor lock-in (something hardly anyone considers properly - because it will be someone else's problem in a few years in big organisations, and people have no idea how to value it in small ones), flexibility, the ability to avoid forced migrations to new software when proprietary software is discontinued, etc.
     
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