Will so called SEO experts be killed off by their silly prices

[RedEvo]

Why do you think it is relative that the more you increase in sales the more you should get paid? It's people like you that'll get priced out of the market eventually.

It's called pricing by value and it's not peculiar to SEO.

d

 

[3 MORE YEARS]

If people are willing to pay for it then there will always be supply. It's like any other marketing. It's just there are more dodgy companies in SEO than most other industries. But like anything, there are also some really good companies.

 

[Curious]

Why do you think it is relative that the more you increase in sales the more you should get paid? It's people like you that'll get priced out of the market eventually.

Why shouldnt you charge more if you're bringing in more of a return?

Same as why shouldnt you charge more for a higher quality of work in any disclipine.

 

[MASSEY]

Why shouldnt you charge more if you're bringing in more of a return?

Your not bringing more of a return are you :|, you are simply setting your pricing structure to " this guy looks like he makes a lot of money i'll over charge this one".

 

[S-Marketing]

Your not bringing more of a return are you :|, you are simply setting your pricing structure to " this guy looks like he makes a lot of money i'll over charge this one".

A well known figure in one of my industries once said on national television that he decides what the price will be for the job as soon as he has seen what car the customer has. It didn't go down too well.

 

You're the one taking on seo clients so why don't you take your own advice and starting posting then

I don't take on clients and some of my results are well documented on the forum.

Unlike your goodself.

Earl

 

[MASSEY]

A well known figure in one of my industries once said on national television that he decides what the price will be for the job as soon as he has seen what car the customer has. It didn't go down too well.

We know who not to use when we need an seo eh

 

[Rags]

It's people like you that'll get priced out of the market eventually.

Actually, we'll be the last ones to survive because we've learned how to add more value and create more profit from the same amount of man-hours.

It's the companies who have low profit margins who are always the first to go out of business.

 

A well known figure in one of my industries once said on national television that he decides what the price will be for the job as soon as he has seen what car the customer has. It didn't go down too well.

I always wear me bicycle clips when buying.

Earl

 

[Curious]

Your not bringing more of a return are you :|, you are simply setting your pricing structure to " this guy looks like he makes a lot of money i'll over charge this one".

Sorry, my point was that if your work results in larger returns then I dont see what the problem is with being paid more as long as everyone involved is aware of the costs and charges? I'd pay you a stupid sum if your work resulted in a huge roi for my business and I wouldnt feel like I was robbed either. If you're showing a big roi on your work, it cant matter what your bills are like because youll always be cheap compared to the income.

Wasnt talking about charging people different sums depending upon their situation but upon the results of the work itself.

 

[MASSEY]

Actually, we'll be the last ones to survive because we've learned how to add more value and create more profit from the same amount of man-hours.

It's the companies who have low profit margins who are always the first to go out of business.

Really?

I would have thought the ones going out of business were the ones who could not get the page one results to get the traffic to the site?

I didn't realise that people who had good profit margins on their products or services get charged more in the world of seo.

Must be some different sort of seo they do then

There is me thinking it's all about buying backlinks :|

 

[S-Marketing]

I always wear me bicycle clips when buying.

Earl

Very wise indeed. I do tend to think quite often that if people stopped trying to prove (or pretend) that they are loaded, they would probably have a lot more money.

I've had clients who have been chomping at the bit waiting to show me their new Aston or Lambo, but by far my richest client bumbles around in an old Landrover.

 

[RedEvo]

.hsot rettu otni sdnecsed daerth OES na erom ecnO

 

[JohnnyCash]

I don't take on clients and some of my results are well documented on the forum.

Unlike your goodself.

Earl

I dont see them, unless you're talking about that bloody jetski site again

 

[Rags]

Really?

I would have thought the ones going out of business were the ones who could not get the page one results to get the traffic to the site?

No - sorry to disappoint, but its usually lack of profits that put companies out of business.

 

[deniser]

Oh that's genius!

While they're at it, they may as well sack the accountant and do the accounts in house, swot up on a bit of legal studies and do away with solicitor, ditch their web guy and design their own websites, buy servers and host their own websites, buy a Haynes manual and service their own fleet, scour the country to buy new premises eschewing the services of commercial estate agents - in fact why not stop buying things altogether and make them ourselves - computers, monitors, printers, vehicles etc could all be knocked up in the stock cupboard based on 'how to' videos on YouTube - think of all the money we'd save!

Some things are however easier and quicker to learn than others.....

 

[Rags]

Some things are however easier and quicker to learn than others.....

Some things don't need constant updating and re-learning as much as others.

 

[MASSEY]

No - sorry to disappoint, but its usually lack of profits that put companies out of business.

And not delivering the results will mean they are making no money. What are you trying to say you're not making any sense.

 

[Rags]

Many SEO companies make money and deliver poor results. Many companies of all kinds deliver poor results and still make profits (Microsoft anyone?)

Profitability is not intrinsically linked to performance - although it definitely helps.

You made a point that expensive SEOs will be the first to go - I was simply pointing out another viewpoint (from someone who actually has heard of and implements value-based pricing) that pointed out the flaw in your logic.

The guy who charges more and makes more profit will therefore have a more robust business - the opposite of what you said. Simple really.

 

[VinceSamios]

PPC is a classic example of people paying more and more and more, and still readily paying more and more because they get ROI... this post has got silly, me out.

 

[terryuk]

Really?

I would have thought the ones going out of business were the ones who could not get the page one results to get the traffic to the site?

I didn't realise that people who had good profit margins on their products or services get charged more in the world of seo.

Must be some different sort of seo they do then

There is me thinking it's all about buying backlinks :|

There were a guy selling 1500 'whitehat' links for 100 quid or something. Does that make him an SEO? A good one? :|:redface:

The guy who gets a healthy bill at the end of the month probably understands value for money. Not some junk. Don't get me wrong there are some jokers flying around unfortunately.

When he hits the jack pot on #1 then I doubt no one will be complaining unless this thread is still going on :|

 

[SalesSurgeon]

I have a client paying me £5k per month for SEO work. Last month they pulled in over £150k from their site. We started with a one-off payment of £500 as a test. I gave no guarantees then and I still don't, but they now have several no. 1 rankings which are bringing in the business and they are more than happy to pay the £5k.

At the end of the day, SEO work is only any good if it pays for itself multiple times over.

 

[JamieM]

I don't take on clients

Neither does the guy doing in house SEO who you asked to post his search term.

and some of my results are well documented on the forum.

Where are they?

I have a client paying me £5k per month for SEO work. Last month they pulled in over £150k from their site. We started with a one-off payment of £500 as a test. I gave no guarantees then and I still don't, but they now have several no. 1 rankings which are bringing in the business and they are more than happy to pay the £5k.

At the end of the day, SEO work is only any good if it pays for itself multiple times over.

How do you measure the increase in business whilst isolating other external factors?

 

[VinceSamios]

How do you measure the increase in business whilst isolating other external factors?

Classic example of someone who isn't an SEO expert... I track every phone call down to the keyword used to search it, or the source of the referral. Hence I know 100% how much business comes from where. (and you better bet the phone calls are tracked through to revenue, both one off and recurring)

 

[MASSEY]

I think i'll try this pricing structure with my customers. Anyone who has a good job i'm going to charge them more becausse they can afford it :| Never mind the fact i do the same service, might as well rip the better earners off...

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I think i'll try this pricing structure with my customers. Anyone who has a good job i'm going to charge them more becausse they can afford it :| Never mind the fact i do the same service, might as well rip the better earners off...

I thought that's what you did already

IMHO Value based pricing is the only way to go... Anything else and you're no more than a disguised employee with no employee rights.

It's not charging the richer more, it's charging on the value you bring. If you were a partner in the business you'd share in the increased profit, VBP is just outsourcing the partnership... and usually at a cheaper/better value price. It's the only real win win possibility...

Think about it. If the SEO is on a budget, then there is a time constraint. In order to remain profitable he must only spend x hours on a client. If something extra needs to be done, either he becomes unprofitable or the client suffers. Would you want your SEO to go out of business in the middle of a campaign?

 

[Rags]

Never mind the fact i do the same service, might as well rip the better earners off...

You keep missing the point - as WLP has explained, we don't charge more to 'better earners', we charge according the the amount of extra revenue we bring to the business.

For example I have a client whose biz turns over £2 million. He agreed that it would be reasonable to expect £200k of extra turnover over the next 12 months for him by hiring me.

Because he knows his numbers, he agreed to pay me £8k up-front and £1400 monthly - so for £17k he gets £200k to play with. His profit margin is about 35% so he gets to keep £70k-£17k=£53k.

(Note how he paid £8k BEFORE seeing any results)

Now all I'm doing is the usual keyword research, adding pages to his site, adding lead capture, moving him to a 2-step sales process and adding backlinks.

I could do the same for Joe the Plumber or Mrs Miggins Tea Shop for £300, but why would I?

He's happy, I'm happy. And I won't be going out of business any time soon due to value-based pricing (along with Positioning and Consultative Selling of course)

 

[MASSEY]

You keep missing the point - as WLP has explained, we don't charge more to 'better earners', we charge according the the amount of extra revenue we bring to the business.

For example I have a client whose biz turns over £2 million. He agreed that it would be reasonable to expect £200k of extra turnover over the next 12 months for him by hiring me.

Because he knows his numbers, he agreed to pay me £8k up-front and £1400 monthly - so for £17k he gets £200k to play with. His profit margin is about 35% so he gets to keep £70k-£17k=£53k.

(Note how he paid £8k BEFORE seeing any results)

Now all I'm doing is the usual keyword research, adding pages to his site, adding lead capture, moving him to a 2-step sales process and adding backlinks.

I could do the same for Joe the Plumber or Mrs Miggins Tea Shop for £300, but why would I?

He's happy, I'm happy. And I won't be going out of business any time soon due to value-based pricing (along with Positioning and Consultative Selling of course)

You're over charging people who's businesses make more money from the same seo you offer. Now as a business owner i would rather find an seo who is willing to not rip me off and provide their usual service... You are not offering anything different to another seo even if you do go out of business. Lets not make seo out to be mystical, the more inbound links you can afford to generate the higher you go on google.

As weblinkplus has put the following

It's not charging the richer more, it's charging on the value you bring. If you were a partner in the business you'd share in the increased profit, VBP is just outsourcing the partnership... and usually at a cheaper/better value price. It's the only real win win possibility...

I think optimisers are having delusions of gradeur. I let a newspaper design my ad in the newspaper it brings good roi, should i cut them in on my business :|

 

[MASSEY]

Think about it. If the SEO is on a budget, then there is a time constraint. In order to remain profitable he must only spend x hours on a client. If something extra needs to be done, either he becomes unprofitable or the client suffers. Would you want your SEO to go out of business in the middle of a campaign?

If something extra needs to be done why not tell them and invoice them? If they can't afford it, move on to another client?

Do your clients get a monthly invoice for being their seo / business advisor?

 

[finejewellerys]

oh, it is really so bad to spend so much on site ranking to the seo expert.why not search the free SEO strategies to get the high ranking in major serach engines.At this moment, there are so great ways to get the good position in top one page if you know the basic seo knowledges and have 1-2 hours to do the seo work in a day and keep doing well onpage and offpage point,I think you will get a good search ranking with no extra cost, just time.

 

[Rags]

You're over charging people who's businesses make more money from the same seo you offer. Now as a business owner i would rather find an seo who is willing to not rip me off and provide their usual service... You are not offering anything different to another seo even if you do go out of business. Lets not make seo out to be mystical, the more inbound links you can afford to generate the higher you go on google.

As weblinkplus has put the following



I think optimisers are having delusions of gradeur. I let a newspaper design my ad in the newspaper it brings good roi, should i cut them in on my business :|

Does Wayne Rooney's agent get more than Jimmy LeagueTwo's agent?
Do estate agents get more commission for selling a bigger property? (but the same paperwork)
Do marketing and business consultants charge more to multinationals than small companies?

Welcome to the real world!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Because he knows his numbers, he agreed to pay me £8k up-front and £1400 monthly - so for £17k he gets £200k to play with. His profit margin is about 35% so he gets to keep £70k-£17k=£53k.

Sorry this is not really true, He will have extra overheads selling the extra £200,000 unless he has loads of over capacity . its the bottom line increase (Net Profit) he will be watching, which will be far less than his profit margin; as it includes personnel, delivery, rent, loan & overdraft repayments etc, so this could easily eat well into his £53,000, so to me you dont look that great a value

 

[Rags]

Ok, I made a mistake -I meant 'net profit' not 'profit margin'. Thanks for pointing it out!

My main point stands - the client is happy.

 

[ScottB]

The problem with hiring a newbie to learn SEO on the job is that you're basically paying him to learn how to earn a similar amount and more from working from home on a part time basis. Why would he keep working for you?

My first year of SEO netted me a basic salary from the sites I was working on in my spare time on top of my crap job - I was in a big brand agency the next year (as one of the most experienced members of staff lol). That was 10 years ago though so there weren't many experienced SEOs kicking about.

It must suck to be a SEO client - there are a lot of idiots offering rubbish services and in many cases it can be just as effective to hire someone to do SEO or do it yourself. The flip side is that DIY or newbie SEO can hurt your rankings (that might not matter if you don't have any just now and aren't reliant on web traffic to sustain your business) and you may be recruiting more often than you might plan for. To be honest if I wasn't a SEO I'd probably try doing it myself before forking out the cash for a pro. It's a good learning experience and at the very least it'll set you up a bit better to make decisions on SEO providers in the future.

On a side note, I'm expanding my service offering so if anyone has slight twinges in their heads, I do a great link building / brain surgery combo package.

 

[VinceSamios]

There seems to be a miss-conception that charging more means doing the same amount of work.... no...

I'm signing paperwork tomorrow on another £6k/month consultancy contract, and employing an additional member of staff to implement the work, using some money for budgets for link building etc, and then my company also gets some profit. (god forbid)

A bigger contract means everybody gets more. The client gets more results, the service provider gets more profit. Business 101.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Do your clients get a monthly invoice for being their seo / business advisor?

My two biggest clients have me on retainer - they pay me for doing nothing Further, they have provided me with most of my new clients over the last year or so... So I guess they're happy...

 

[realmaverick]

It would be nice for a governing body to be set up that works with the Search Engines and SEOs.

Are you kidding?! So they can charge people for doing SFA, ilke the other governing bodies for the likes of Electricians and what not. They're too busy charging genuine sparks a fortune, not only a yearly fee but a fee for every certificate they hand out. But report a rogue trader and they couldn't give a hoot.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

seems to be a bit of willy waving going on

 

[S-Marketing]

seems to be a bit of willy waving going on

And as usual its the little ones what are waved the hardest.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

seems to be a bit of willy waving going on

Yes, as usual.

I think you asked a reasonable question - I think the answer is a clear "no", but it was a reasonable question.

(Relating to supply v demand, "top end" v "average" market etc.)

But it's a question about the SEO industry, so the "I'm not willing to show you a picture of mine - and I've never seen a picture of yours - but mine is bigger" crowd are out in force as usual.

Steve