Will so called SEO experts be killed off by their silly prices

[Chris Ashdown]

With the silly prices being talked about by SEO experts, with no guarantees of page one and no ways of measuring how much time and effort they apply to your own account is their time comming to a end. After all how many other proffessions get paid without any checks on ability, Hours worked, Qualifications and Honesty

For £5200 I can hire a bright apprentice who can spend a couple of months reading up and experimenting on the web for 37 hours a week and then spend the next 9 months =1332 hours dedicated to your own sites and still have a months holiday

This is obviously the low of the low, but quite a few times I have been offered SEO at £1000 per month, would I really be getting value or by paying someone £12,000 a year or even £15-20,000 and undertake all the IT and maintance of the sites

£15,000 is still good pay in Norfolk, the majority I would say earn less than £13,000

 

[directmarketingadvice]

With the silly prices being talked about by SEO experts, with no guarantees of page one and no ways of measuring how much time and effort they apply to your own account is their time comming to a end.

Lots of people want SEO. There are not a lot of people who can do it really well.

Supply and demand.

After all how many other proffessions get paid without any checks on ability, Hours worked, Qualifications and Honesty

Qualifications are only as good as those people who are handing them out. How many good SEOs want to be accreditors, rather than SEOs?

So I doubt there'll ever be an SEO qualification that's worth a damn. Just like there'll probably never be a worthwhile PPC qualification. (Or copywriting qualification.)

Steve

 

[tony84]

It would be nice for a governing body to be set up that works with the Search Engines and SEOs.
Maybe have generic paperwork to make it plain and simple and shows more or less what you will be getting for your money. Whether that be hours worked, positions, search terms etc.

EDIT:
I dont think it will happen.

Also, i dont agree with silly prices, there is obviously a skill involved so its a skilled trade in effect which you pay more for anyway.

 

[RedEvo]

Most decent agencies calculate their rates based on all the variables. Some add a premium, some add weightings based on their locations. Rates are generally misunderstood and comparing agency rates with staff salaries isn't going to give you the full picture.

d

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Also, i dont agree with silly prices, there is obviously a skill involved so its a skilled trade in effect which you pay more for anyway.

Are you sure there is a skill involved or they are just part time chancers, thats the main problem, I have read the Google Starter guide all 32 pages of it, but it does not make me a expert

If you hire a proffessional doctor, solicitor, accountant, surveyor etc they have a a certain level of training and proof of ability, Plummers, Electricians, Bricklayers have NVQ's or ONC/HNC to fall back on

SEO is a requirement for all web sites but hence my suggestion, maybe better to make your own expert than keep finding con artists and chasers

 

[RedEvo]

If I were you I'd just crack on and create your own expert.

d

 

With the silly prices being talked about by SEO experts, with no guarantees of page one and no ways of measuring how much time and effort they apply to your own account is their time comming to a end. After all how many other proffessions get paid without any checks on ability, Hours worked, Qualifications and Honesty

For £5200 I can hire a bright apprentice who can spend a couple of months reading up and experimenting on the web for 37 hours a week and then spend the next 9 months =1332 hours dedicated to your own sites and still have a months holiday

This is obviously the low of the low, but quite a few times I have been offered SEO at £1000 per month, would I really be getting value or by paying someone £12,000 a year or even £15-20,000 and undertake all the IT and maintance of the sites

£15,000 is still good pay in Norfolk, the majority I would say earn less than £13,000

So if I increase a companies profits from 300k to 500k a year you don't think I would be worth a measley 12k.

The value of SEO is directly related to the size,product and turnover of a company.IMHO

As for accreditation what could be easier than looking on google for a companies work?

Earl

 

[RadiusBPO]

why would you want to pay £5k for someone who doesn't know what they are doing?

How would they learn?? Read SEOMOZ?? ha

 

[dubOnline]

the best person to optimise their website is themselves. Its more cost effective and better for long term.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

the best person to optimise their website is themselves. Its more cost effective and better for long term.

My clients don't think so. Most are too busy to learn SEO, or DIY it.

 

[dubOnline]

different issue, i'm saying the best person is not the most easiest solution.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I understand what you are saying Sirearl, but I am not moaning about the people who bring value for money, rather what seems the majority who aparently don't, so as a business you look at alternative ways to reach a aceptable solution.

Regarding the increase, the charges are for the time taken, people don't sell themselves by saying I want £12000 a year, if I increase sales by £200000 using seo, where as a normal salesman would be paid a retainer plus a commission on reaching targets. a easy way to observe their true worth to the company

 

[JohnnyCash]

With the silly prices being talked about by SEO experts, with no guarantees of page one and no ways of measuring how much time and effort they apply to your own account is their time comming to a end. After all how many other proffessions get paid without any checks on ability, Hours worked, Qualifications and Honesty

For £5200 I can hire a bright apprentice who can spend a couple of months reading up and experimenting on the web for 37 hours a week and then spend the next 9 months =1332 hours dedicated to your own sites and still have a months holiday

This is obviously the low of the low, but quite a few times I have been offered SEO at £1000 per month, would I really be getting value or by paying someone £12,000 a year or even £15-20,000 and undertake all the IT and maintance of the sites

£15,000 is still good pay in Norfolk, the majority I would say earn less than £13,000

You are going to have a major problem if you pay someone to do nothing other than learn seo and implement it on your site - especially since you're mentioning £100 a week for an apprentice for £15k a year...

They are either going to learn to be good at seo or they are going to fail. If they fail you've lost all the money invested in them. If they manage it then they're going to quickly realise coming to your office at 9am every day to get paid peanuts is a complete waste of time. They'll just take their skills (which you paid for) back home and start building affiliate sites where its easy to make a 6 figure income.

 

the best person to optimise their website is themselves. Its more cost effective and better for long term.

And while they are about it they could try a bit of D.I.Y brain surgery.

Earl

 

[VinceSamios]

Its taken me ten years of trading online to build up the experience and resources at my disposal... you can't buy that education, you can't employ that education.

If you spent that money on someone who didn't know what they were doing, even a "seo guy" working for an "seo company" - 99% of the time you'd be better off using your cash to clean your microwave.

The guys that are good at this stuff charge big money, because it makes massive financial improvements for their clients, and also run their own online businesses using their skills...

You can't buy the education or experience... plain and simple.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

why would you want to pay £5k for someone who doesn't know what they are doing?

How would they learn?? Read SEOMOZ?? ha

How did you?

 

[shadesofblue]

And while they are about it they could try a bit of D.I.Y brain surgery.

Earl

SEO is hardly on a par with brain surgery though is it.

 

[VinceSamios]

SEO is hardly on a par with brain surgery though is it.

Not being a brain surgeon I can't comment... but then again, neither could a brain surgeon...

who... btw... earns £60k/year working in the NHS after 10 years training... If SEO were so much easier, wouldn't they run their own companies and earn £mil's

This topic is winding me up... I should bow out.

 

SEO is hardly on a par with brain surgery though is it.

Agreed very few brain surgeons know how to do SEO.

Earl

 

[VinceSamios]

How did you?

Some "right place right time"
A lot of existing education in programming and html
A lot of exposure to a lot of variables and results
A lot of relationships with other people with similar exposure
10 years as a practitioner
Resources to test and to get results

etc

Good luck with the above, if you train someone to that level they will just start up business for themselves, probably in competition.

 

[shadesofblue]

Agreed very few brain surgeons know how to do SEO.

Earl

Yet alot of SEOs would read a book and give brain surgery a crack.

 

[JohnnyCash]

You don't need 10 years though - 6 months of doing nothing but training SEO (big assumption that the person learning was intelligent, and the person teaching was a high end seo) and I bet they would be better than 90% of the people currently selling seo...

I see why a lot of seo's (this isn't aimed at you in particular, just in general) like to spout the "i've got 15 years experience" and so on but what worked or didn't work back then isn't even particularly relevant to what does today.

Would anyone agree/disagree that 6 months of nothing but seo training would put someone at a very high level compared to most current seo sellers?

 

[VinceSamios]

Would anyone agree/disagree that 6 months of nothing but seo training would put someone at a very high level compared to most current seo sellers?

Completely agree - but that simply reflects on the lack of quality in the SEO services being offered.

I feel very strongly that experience spanning many many years has a profound effect on understanding of whats going on. The problem with SEO is you have to guess what to expect based on what you do. That kind of intuition requires a LOT of experience.

Maybe I'm talking too high level, maybe my ego is boiling over, whatever. knowledge of how things were in 2001 still has a lot of relevance today. SEO is more like 2002 at the moment, than it is like 2009.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

It's interesting that those of you who claim to be a worthwhile investment make no mention of the other most likely 2/3 of your profession

I fully understand your stance it's obvious you must protect your own positions but can you not put yourself into the position of a MD looking to improve their company, the amount of money charged does not guarantee you get the best people, not does history, qualifications or time served, a proffesor in SEO may well be 5 years behind the field, a good person may just take it easy, it's not black and white

Starting anew person is always a gamble some learn new skills and walk some will never go freelance, some will move up in a company to senior positions, with SEO there are basics they would pick up quickly and other things that would take years, the same sort of skills every freelance person or manager must learn over time. but can you get good value out of them and do you need to use their SEO knowledge 24/7/365 or also use them in a associated way as well

 

[WebTrust]

I disagree, the problem is you wont become an expert or good at it by reading.

Almost everything written on forums is rubbish, guides and ebooks are rubbish or so out of date.

The only way you become good at SEO is testing, I have 140 websites if I want to check to see if X makes a difference I pick a site that's had nothing else done on it within 30 days, execute it. If rank rises within 7 days, I roll it out to the other sites, if not it's not rolled out to the rest.

Why would I want to go and then share for free on ebooks or forums those methods? just so someone else can use them against me in rankings?

95% of those sites are affiliate in some way and they make money by ranking, they don't want I earn nothing.

It's thing testing that allows my SEO to be very quick, very effective and very cheap.

I can roll new sites out and be making money quickly with almost no cost to myself other than time.

While I do not offer SEO services to the general public I do sometimes do services for friends/contacts but I would always guarantee a positive movement in the SERPS within 7 days. If I didn't think I could have the effect in that time I would just be honest.

 

[searchsouth]

I would agree with the above comment that 6 months of training from an expert would put a novice above the level of many SEO providers.

I don't agree that it would be possible to hire someone, let then read a few free websites and expect them to reach a reasonable level any time soon. For starters, how do they know what to read? Where can they find reliable information? Will they be experimenting on your website? Those experiments could prove costly, I would suggest.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

put yourself into the position of a MD looking to improve their company, the amount of money charged does not guarantee you get the best people, not does history, qualifications or time served

And, if I put myself in that position, what would I see?

Wouldn't I see there are risks in hiring an SEO. And wouldn't I have to weigh up those risks against what I'm willing to lose, what I could gain, and the likelihood of it being profitable?

And, once I'd weighed those things up, wouldn't I be capable of deciding whether or not it's worth me hiring an SEO?

Steve

 

[VinceSamios]

I fully understand your stance it's obvious you must protect your own positions but can you not put yourself into the position of a MD looking to improve their company

I'm sorry but this is a completely ignorant statement - I am an MD of multiple companies, selling lots of different products and services, the vast majority online. My meetings with my peers (MD's) to discuss SEO include discussions about average order values, average customer values and profit margins. This is all key to assessing how to focus SEO, which makes being an "MD" a bit of a pre-requisite to offering a good service.

 

I disagree, the problem is you wont become an expert or good at it by reading.

Almost everything written on forums is rubbish, guides and ebooks are rubbish or so out of date.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.

Earl

 

[RedEvo]

.......with almost no cost to myself other than time.

And there's your answer right there

d

 

[Rags]

the best person to optimise their website is themselves. Its more cost effective and better for long term.

Oh that's genius!

While they're at it, they may as well sack the accountant and do the accounts in house, swot up on a bit of legal studies and do away with solicitor, ditch their web guy and design their own websites, buy servers and host their own websites, buy a Haynes manual and service their own fleet, scour the country to buy new premises eschewing the services of commercial estate agents - in fact why not stop buying things altogether and make them ourselves - computers, monitors, printers, vehicles etc could all be knocked up in the stock cupboard based on 'how to' videos on YouTube - think of all the money we'd save!

 

[WebTrust]

And there's your answer right there

d

My SEO to get for example a very competitive site to first page of Google, 60k exact local a month.

Took 1 month.

Man hours: 20 minutes
Cost: £2 Max

That was last month I started that one.

 

[Rags]

£2 for 20 mins =£6 per hour

Congratulations you get the minimum wage!

 

[WebTrust]

What are you talking about?

That's my outgoings not incomings...

 

What are you talking about?

That's my outgoings not incomings...

so come on whats this high competition term then?

words are cheap.

Earl

 

[JamieM]

so come on whats this high competition term then?

words are cheap.

Earl

As if anyone here discloses that kind of information.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Hi,I am looking for an investor to open up a betfair account and place there own money into it(not give it to me)I will then make them a return of between £50-£200 a day with there £5000 still intact at the end off the day.I have no access to withdrawing there money. All I ask for is 15% of what I make for them transferred to me daily via paypal. I use sophisticated software that I purchased for £100 myself and it's all ran on auto pilot. Some days it may be more and even up to £400 a day but the min off £50 a day is a good return on £5000 a day anyway. I already have 3 investors that I have been working for already that get a return everyday. I make myself a good income out of this already and looking to increase my income now I have 5 pcs available. I will never handle your money as it will always be in your betfair account that you withdraw and deposit on. Any questions let me no. Serious investors only please. Thanks Chris

I'm also willing to put kamikaze bets on with other peoples money, in return for 15% of the ones that I somehow manage to profit on - pm me anyone who wants to take me up on this

 

As if anyone here discloses that kind of information.

If you are an SEO and you want to get work ,then its a pretty good idea to disclose your work if you know what you are doing.

Any reputation should be based on what one has done.

As said talk is cheap.

Earl

 

[JohnnyCash]

You're the one taking on seo clients so why don't you take your own advice and starting posting then

 

[MASSEY]

So if I increase a companies profits from 300k to 500k a year you don't think I would be worth a measley 12k.

The value of SEO is directly related to the size,product and turnover of a company.IMHO

As for accreditation what could be easier than looking on google for a companies work?

Earl

Why do you think it is relative that the more you increase in sales the more you should get paid? It's people like you that'll get priced out of the market eventually.