Why have people changed so much?

[deniser]

We've been running this business for 10 years and it is only this year that we are experiencing a lot of problems with customers. In the past, they have asked us to order stuff in and they have then happily come and paid for it when it arrived.

It was only very very occasionally, that we ordered something and the customer then didn't want it.

This year has been different. We have carried on ordering stock in at customers' requests, as we always have, and this year, not a single customer has actually come and paid for the goods and taken them away. They do not reply to emails and leave their mobile on answering machine.

I have never had to take deposits before and don't intend to do so now; I am just going to stop ordering stuff in altogether and they can buy from stock.

Has anyone else experienced the same thing recently? It's bizarre how peoples' shopping habits have changed so dramatically over the past year.

 

[emmylou74]

I have only had the actual shop for a little over a year but have had such a problem with people ordering things and never coming back. The same thing either not answering emails texts etc - or I get the message back oh yes still want it - then nothing.

I hate to take deposits, and have just decided against doing anymore special requests as well for products that are brought in. If its my own items that I make I do not mind so much because I do not have a problem selling them on.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We have had to start charging a deposit for special orders, due to the same problem.

I think it gives them time to search the internet or think about the coast, but does not really look like impulse buys which you would have expected this to happen with

Have you go over your "who wants to buy a shop" days yet, hope things have improved some what by now

 

[gr9ce]

Agree, the days of not taking deposits are long gone. Plus the deposit has to be large enough if not full amount.

All it now takes is a few clicks of a mouse or phone to check if the price really is right.

Plus, another problem, if someone needs something (spare part or problem solver) but isn't 100% sure what it is called or who makes it, once they get this info (from your shop) then they can go off and find the cheapest internet seller. So the trick therefore is not to tell them the exact details but just that you can order the suitable item..

 

I suspect people are waking up to how much trouble the country is in and have second thoughts about spending money.

 

[Talay]

We've been running this business for 10 years and it is only this year that we are experiencing a lot of problems with customers. In the past, they have asked us to order stuff in and they have then happily come and paid for it when it arrived.

It was only very very occasionally, that we ordered something and the customer then didn't want it.

This year has been different. We have carried on ordering stock in at customers' requests, as we always have, and this year, not a single customer has actually come and paid for the goods and taken them away. They do not reply to emails and leave their mobile on answering machine.

I have never had to take deposits before and don't intend to do so now; I am just going to stop ordering stuff in altogether and they can buy from stock.

Has anyone else experienced the same thing recently? It's bizarre how peoples' shopping habits have changed so dramatically over the past year.

Though their actions are reprehensible, you are in danger of losing sales because of your intransigence to change. The "don't intend to do so now" attitude is not going to help you achieve sales or reduce the risks you have experienced.

Yet you have the answer and you have discarded it. People are quite happy these days to pay for thing before they receive them; all online business is conducted this way. Asking for a deposit or the outright amount before ordering is hardly going to faze a serious buyer.

 

[DavidWH]

Deposit. Deposit. Deposit!

I'm doing this now, shame my old man isn't convinced. As soon as the chance comes to close the sale do it! If they're serious they'll be no problem!

Anything under £100 we want 100% anything over that a minimum 50%

It's reducing time wasted doing work for jobs that never come to happen.

 

[fairdealworld]

Fortunately my customers are still turning up to collect what they've ordered but if they stopped doing so I'd go over to taking deposits or taking payment with order. A lot of customers offer to pay when they place an order, up to now I've said no pay when it comes but would have to re-think if things change.

 

[Sobie]

Though their actions are reprehensible, you are in danger of losing sales because of your intransigence to change. The "don't intend to do so now" attitude is not going to help you achieve sales or reduce the risks you have experienced.

Yet you have the answer and you have discarded it. People are quite happy these days to pay for thing before they receive them; all online business is conducted this way. Asking for a deposit or the outright amount before ordering is hardly going to faze a serious buyer.

Fortunately my customers are still turning up to collect what they've ordered but if they stopped doing so I'd go over to taking deposits or taking payment with order. A lot of customers offer to pay when they place an order, up to now I've said no pay when it comes but would have to re-think if things change.

We get that too, a serious buyer will always offer a deposit or full payment without us ever asking, and we too normally say to pay on collection, although we do get people insisting on paying as they say they've got to pay at some point. If someone asks us to order something in and do not mention deposits I'll prompt.

Probably a worse situation for us is people asking us to put things to one side for them, and you never see them again. I'll happily hold items (I think Sold signs encourage other people to purchase) until the the day after they've agreed to collect, then they go back on sale.

 

[S-Marketing]

I was going to say that there is no sensible reason to not take deposits, but everyone beat me to it.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Always now ask for 50% deposit on anything ordered by a customer: we didn't do that when we first opened and for a long time everything was fine. But then we had a customer order a hand painted, personalised memory box with names, dates, particular illustrations, specific colours etc which took around 5 hours to make (excluding the amount of time required for layers of paint to dry) and they never came to collect or pay for it. It was £40 lost which was really annoying.
So now we always take a deposit. Most customers actually offer to pay for the whole thing up front, we've not had any complaints or raised eyebrows so will continue with this.

 

[cjd]

S'truth, you guys!

You don't take a deposit and you turn down advance payments..... You must have attended a different business school to me.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Funnily enough we do almost the same thing.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Are you serious? You refuse upfront payments??

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Seriously can't believe you're refusing upfront payments...why?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[emmylou74]

I love how you all think you know our business better than us and what is better for us to do, without even knowing anything about each individual business!

For my business bringing in special orders that are made by other companies has proved to be a waste of time, money etc. To bring in a special order of say a leather collar in a certain size - I would need to hit a minimum order of £200. So to make a profit of a couple of pounds I have to spend on a whole load of product that will not sell - because I cannot sell anything that can be found online - nothing - they will just not buy it. So no amount of deposits are going to make that worth while.

For items that I make - if they do not collect I can sell it on easily. So no need for a deposit for me.

 

[kelvin1950]

I love how you all think you know our business better than us and what is better for us to do, without even knowing anything about each individual business!

For my business bringing in special orders that are made by other companies has proved to be a waste of time, money etc. To bring in a special order of say a leather collar in a certain size - I would need to hit a minimum order of £200. So to make a profit of a couple of pounds I have to spend on a whole load of product that will not sell - because I cannot sell anything that can be found online - nothing - they will just not buy it. So no amount of deposits are going to make that worth while.

For items that I make - if they do not collect I can sell it on easily. So no need for a deposit for me.

Yup, lots of peeps on here who are far better at running someone else's business.

Kinda gets boring at times doesn't it, being told you're doing everything wrong. Some of those telling the tale have actually worked in retail or run a B&M shop. Amazing.......................

 

[S-Marketing]

Here we go again. Retailers on the defensive because they have missed the point.

 

[emmylou74]

Here we go again. Retailers on the defensive because they have missed the point.

And how have I missed the point? So because I do not agree with your opinion that makes me defensive?

 

[S-Marketing]

And how have I missed the point? So because I do not agree with your opinion that makes me defensive?

I think you missed the point because no-one is telling anyone that you need to take special orders, or change the way you decide whether or not to take special orders. Your point about minimum orders from suppliers is valid. All we are saying, is that if you take special orders, take the money up front.

It's better to lose a customer than retain one that loses you money.

As a general principle, get money in as quick as you can, and keep it for as long as you can, and you wont go too far wrong.

 

[Iconic Autographs]

I think you missed the point because no-one is telling anyone that you need to take special orders, or change the way you decide whether or not to take special orders. Your point about minimum orders from suppliers is valid. All we are saying, is that if you take special orders, take the money up front.

It's better to lose a customer than retain one that loses you money.

As a general principle, get money in as quick as you can, and keep it for as long as you can, and you wont go too far wrong.

Good advice.

 

[deniser]

There are several reasons why we don't take deposits:

1. we have never needed to in the past
2. because we are dependent on our supplier to fulfill the order - and the goods are coming from overseas - and because (and we tell customers this in advance and they are willing to take this risk) there is always the possibility that something will not arrive or not arrive in time or arrive damaged or in the wrong size etc. Once we have taken the deposit, it changes the nature of the transaction and I would feel very bad having taken a deposit if we then couldn't fulfill the order. But maybe I am too ethical and care too much about the customer. I'm sure many wouldn't have any qualms in my situation.
3. not quite sure how to bank/account for the deposit etc.
4. the law relating to deposits is quite complicated and anything over a nominal amount you aren't actually legally entitled to keep anyway.

This is why I am reluctant.

 

[S-Marketing]

Reasons 1,3 and 4 are non issues. A quick bit of research will sort these out.

I do see where you are coming from with 2. I think I would just be honest with customers and let them know the position. If they still order, all well and good, if they dont, you haven't lost anything. Maybe regular customers could be trusted to come back without a need for a deposit, but others could be required to leave a deposit? That may be the best compromise?

Yes, technically you probably would need to refund a deposit if someone asked you to, but they would need to come back to the shop surely.

 

[Talay]

... Yes, technically you probably would need to refund a deposit if someone asked you to, but they would need to come back to the shop surely.

If the customer breaks the contract of sale where the seller has performed their side of the contract then the seller is entitled to damages from the buyer for breach of contract. Damages claimed under this breach are where deposits start to enter the fray.

 

[S-Marketing]

If the customer breaks the contract of sale where the seller has performed their side of the contract then the seller is entitled to damages from the buyer for breach of contract. Damages claimed under this breach are where deposits start to enter the fray.

I can't imagine it would be worth argueing the toss with a customer in the shop. If it was for less than 100 quid I would have thought it would be better just to refund it. Deposits are ideal to reduce the amount of loss, but shouldn't be allowed to cause friction with customers, IMO.

 

[deniser]

My other issue is people just not turning up for fitting appointments even though we take a mobile number and send them a text reminder. The no shows always just switch their phones off rather than ring to say they are not coming.

These appointments are outside regular hours and involve staff costs, heating, electricity etc. and me working lots of extra hours and it's just gutting when people don't turn up without notifying us.

This never used to happen either. People are just getting worse and worse behaved. Taking deposit for appointments is going a bit far....

Today I have the flu and feel seriously unwell and have also left a sick teenager at home to run this operation (from behind the scenes as I can't be customer facing in this state but need to be on the premises) and we've had two no shows. Aaagh. Wish I could just go back to bed. Not in a good mood today!

 

[cjd]

There are several reasons why we don't take deposits:

1. we have never needed to in the past
2. because we are dependent on our supplier to fulfill the order - and the goods are coming from overseas - and because (and we tell customers this in advance and they are willing to take this risk) there is always the possibility that something will not arrive or not arrive in time or arrive damaged or in the wrong size etc. Once we have taken the deposit, it changes the nature of the transaction and I would feel very bad having taken a deposit if we then couldn't fulfill the order. But maybe I am too ethical and care too much about the customer. I'm sure many wouldn't have any qualms in my situation.
3. not quite sure how to bank/account for the deposit etc.
4. the law relating to deposits is quite complicated and anything over a nominal amount you aren't actually legally entitled to keep anyway.

This is why I am reluctant.

1. Fair enough. But if you need to now, it doesn't seem to be a big deal to me.
2. If it goes wrong, you simply return the deposit and explain. There's nothing unethical in taking a deposit - nothing at all. It's normal practice and most people would expect to be asked for one.
3. Ask your accountant
4. Deposits are a way of making sure that the customer is serious and because it needs to be receipted it forms proof of contract for both you and them. It's not there to be forfeit, it's mostly a proof of good faith by both parties.

 

[S-Marketing]

My other issue is people just not turning up for fitting appointments even though we take a mobile number and send them a text reminder. The no shows always just switch their phones off rather than ring to say they are not coming.

These appointments are outside regular hours and involve staff costs, heating, electricity etc. and me working lots of extra hours and it's just gutting when people don't turn up without notifying us.

This never used to happen either. People are just getting worse and worse behaved. Taking deposit for appointments is going a bit far....

Today I have the flu and feel seriously unwell and have also left a sick teenager at home to run this operation (from behind the scenes as I can't be customer facing in this state but need to be on the premises) and we've had two no shows. Aaagh. Wish I could just go back to bed. Not in a good mood today!

What is it you sell?

 

[Trisha&ChrisPlant]

My other issue is people just not turning up for fitting appointments even though we take a mobile number and send them a text reminder. The no shows always just switch their phones off rather than ring to say they are not coming.

These appointments are outside regular hours and involve staff costs, heating, electricity etc. and me working lots of extra hours and it's just gutting when people don't turn up without notifying us.

This never used to happen either. People are just getting worse and worse behaved. Taking deposit for appointments is going a bit far....

Today I have the flu and feel seriously unwell and have also left a sick teenager at home to run this operation (from behind the scenes as I can't be customer facing in this state but need to be on the premises) and we've had two no shows. Aaagh. Wish I could just go back to bed. Not in a good mood today!

It's just downright rude to not turn up to an appointment Deniser. People have changed, I agree. I posted a similar thread last year about whether to take/not take deposits. It's still a subject that bugs me. I think it's mainly us small independents that come across this problem.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

My other issue is people just not turning up for fitting appointments even though we take a mobile number and send them a text reminder. The no shows always just switch their phones off rather than ring to say they are not coming.

These appointments are outside regular hours and involve staff costs, heating, electricity etc. and me working lots of extra hours and it's just gutting when people don't turn up without notifying us.

This never used to happen either. People are just getting worse and worse behaved. Taking deposit for appointments is going a bit far....

Today I have the flu and feel seriously unwell and have also left a sick teenager at home to run this operation (from behind the scenes as I can't be customer facing in this state but need to be on the premises) and we've had two no shows. Aaagh. Wish I could just go back to bed. Not in a good mood today!

Oh Deniser, you poor thing

Hope you have a day off tomorrow and feel better x

 

[pen2670]

There are several reasons why we don't take deposits:

1. we have never needed to in the past
2. because we are dependent on our supplier to fulfill the order - and the goods are coming from overseas - and because (and we tell customers this in advance and they are willing to take this risk) there is always the possibility that something will not arrive or not arrive in time or arrive damaged or in the wrong size etc. Once we have taken the deposit, it changes the nature of the transaction and I would feel very bad having taken a deposit if we then couldn't fulfill the order. But maybe I am too ethical and care too much about the customer. I'm sure many wouldn't have any qualms in my situation.
3. not quite sure how to bank/account for the deposit etc.
4. the law relating to deposits is quite complicated and anything over a nominal amount you aren't actually legally entitled to keep anyway.

This is why I am reluctant.

We also have a similar problem to 2 in that our main general supplier has got really good at displaying items as "in stock" assumedly when they are expecting an order, then notifying us they are on back order, then cancelling it. Particularly with one very popular brand. So whilst in general we take 25% deposit or full payment upfront for a special order (expected soon and not sure if anyone else would buy). I've stopped taking deposits for items from them for anything under £50 that I'd be happy to keep on the shelves as its not worth the hassle to refund.

As for how, rightly or wrongly, we just have an "item" on the till called "deposits". When someone orders something we set the price at the deposit amount and add text as to what its for. Then when they buy the item we scan it, then add the same deposit "item", but discount it to a negative equal to what they paid upfront.

 

[kelvin1950]

If the customer breaks the contract of sale where the seller has performed their side of the contract then the seller is entitled to damages from the buyer for breach of contract. Damages claimed under this breach are where deposits start to enter the fray.

Pray do tell how well that will go down in your average high street?

We might as well buy a rope and get one of our customers to kick the chair away.

This really is the dumbest advice I've ever seen offered to a retailer.

 

[Talay]

I can't imagine it would be worth argueing the toss with a customer in the shop. If it was for less than 100 quid I would have thought it would be better just to refund it. Deposits are ideal to reduce the amount of loss, but shouldn't be allowed to cause friction with customers, IMO.

If someone ordered a bespoke item which they later said they did not want and were arguing the toss over the deposit, you do not have customer to lose and the deposit is forfeit.

If you don't intend to keep a deposit, then what on earth is the point of obtaining one in the first place ?

 

[S-Marketing]

If someone ordered a bespoke item which they later said they did not want and were arguing the toss over the deposit, you do not have customer to lose and the deposit is forfeit.

If you don't intend to keep a deposit, then what on earth is the point of obtaining one in the first place ?

I do agree with you if the item is bespoke. I was thinking more about if the customer ordered an ordinary item, which wasn't usually kept in stock.

I think the purpose of the deposit really is to scare away time wasters, and encourage customers to pick up their orders.

 

[Stuart Bailey]

I dont quite understand why you're not taking full payment or at least a large proportion.

If someone complains about paying a deposit they aint going to pay for the full amount later on or will become a problem customer.

 

[herewegoagain.]

I have had the same problem - my very first Christmas was a total washout due to timewasters. All the profit was gone through unsold stock from people wanting special orders- I will not call them customers - because they did not buy anything !!

I have only one policy now.

No deposit - no order - no chance of being shafted !!


I tend to find when people have parted with cash - they come back !!

It is not sold until the money is in the till.....

 

[Jdezire]

Don't be worried about taking deposits as customers will pay if they wish to order.

I'm in bridal retail and pretty much all items I sell are ordered in for the customer. Our industry standard is to take a non refundable deposit on order and the balance due when the items arrive.

Luckily my suppliers are excellent and I know any order placed will arrive as expected. I guess I would be less keen to take a deposit if I was unsure of goods arriving. If deadlines are tight I will turn down an order rather than fail to fullfil the contract.

As an industry many of us work by appointment so if a customer doesnt show up for her app you will likely have turned away another customer who could have taken it. I don't take an appointment fee but I know more and more shops are charging a refundable fee for appointments. If you opening out of your standard hours it could really be something for you to consider.

Just some thoughts from an area of retail where all these things are pretty much standard.

 

[groovyjon]

We always ask for 50% deposit on special orders. It's very very rare for a customer to be offended or refuse, but if they do then the special order doesn't happen. There's no chance of getting caught out that way. As previous posters have said, a fair proportion of customers will actually pay 100% up front anyway when asked for the 50% deposit.

There has been the odd occasion when we couldn't fulfil an order. A quick phonecall, apology and refund happens. Can't remember any of this ever being a major problem.

 

[mankman2012]

SAme here, I am finding people are changing. More complaints about little things, and then going on ebay to compare it to a simular item from China and ask me to better that price. They wont buy from ebay china because they are aware they will pay for postage/VAt and returning the goods to china at their cost. But they will argue with you and is jsut there to waste your time. BEcause the chinese ebayers work on few £ margins because of a drop of ebay buyers going to china to buy stock so the sellers there are forced to go online to sell. At the same time eBay is heavily promoting their website to the Chinese on how to send to UK for cheap and declare paperwork so the buyers do not get duties and VAT invoice. Ebay advertised to sellers to pay to use their fulfilment service, so I guess whoever did that just paid ebay to set that part of the business up, and now they sell this fulfilment service to the Chinese. So the chinese send all their stock to the UK ebay warehouse and ebay sends it out for them, so the customer do not complain about the time frame and they can get away with VAT and duties etc.... therefore reduce the price. Because of this, buyers thinks everything you buy is brought at peanuts, even though food prices/ rent/ oil has gone up and big retail stores are closing down and our margins has really decreased a lot. People do not care. If you dont give it at cheaper than Chinese seller prices they dont want to know.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

On any order over £500 + VAT we always take a 50% deposit. This not only ensures that the product is actually paid for, but allows us to book a slot in our diary for the installation of the work.

I.E. It costs us money to keep the shop open, for someone to walk in, ask for our services, books a date with us to attend, not leave a deposit - for us to turn up and have our engineer wasting time on a site trying to contact the person who somehow "forgot" that he'd booked us in to install his new alarm... oh look, he's at work, no one is home we've worked our diary around him this particular week with other customers wanting work to be done.

We contact other customers to find that we're unable to re-schedule them (even if installing early) because majority of people have to work, therefore have booked time off work for us to install - the chain is pretty self explanatory I think...

Always take a deposit that YOU are comfortable with, doesn't have to be anything spectacular to be honest, 10% - 50% - 100% doesn't matter, A good one is normally the percentage that most suppliers tend to use for returns policies... if they don't turn up within 2-3 weeks contact the supplier give them your apologies and arrange for the item to be returned... doesn't cost you anything then...

We also have a returns policy ourselves on all products that we do not install.