Who is liable?

[Lee]

Hi, hope everyone's well and hope you can help.

I'm in the process of setting up in business selling kitchens. I'm wondering who is liable for any damage to a customer's property or for any remedial issues, accidents, injury resulting from any work carried out by a tradesperson I hire for each installation? So not an employee:

a) Based on me charging the customer for the work and me then paying the tradesperson (if I'm liable would a signed declaration by the tradesperson prior to any work accepting liability pass this onto them?)
b) Based on me 'recommending' trades people and the customer paying them directly, I just supply the goods
c) Is there a legal liability period for such work and if so, how long is this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Newchodge]

If the client pays you for the work, you are liable to the client. You may be able to sue the tradesperson.
You cannot write off your liability.
Your liability lasts as long as necessary. If something is done negligently and causes an issue 30 years down the line you may still be liable.

GET INSURANCE

 

[Mark T Jones]

As @newchsays, you are offering the service, you are responsible

you do need insurance, but you also need solid criteria when recruiting and managing your sub-contractors.

That's what differentiates professionals from cowboys.

 

[Lee]

Thanks for the replies, appreciate the information. In theory then, say something was to happen many years down the line and a person was no longer in business and therefor had no insurance, they're in a very sticky situation?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Thanks for the replies, appreciate the information. In theory then, say something was to happen many years down the line and a person was no longer in business and therefor had no insurance, they're in a very sticky situation?

Yes.

 

[Lee]

Yes

Interesting.....

 

[Frank Wessely]

Interesting.....

Hi @Lee

That may not be the case (although I am happy to be corrected).

I have professionally seen many circumstances where a 3rd party (a former employee) makes a claim under an insurance policy held many years ago by a business that has since closed down and no longer exists. They claim directly against the insurer under the Third Party Rights Against Insurers legislation. This has related to RSI or asbestosis caused by working conditions at that business where the symptoms have not been identified for say ten years or longer.

in your scenario I think that the same principle might apply. You should discuss with your broker.

Alternatively you might purchase run-off cover if at some future point your business closed down.

Thanks.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

I have professionally seen many circumstances where a 3rd party (a former employee) makes a claim under an insurance policy held many years ago by a business that has since closed down and no longer exists. They claim directly against the insurer under the Third Party Rights Against Insurers legislation. This has related to RSI or asbestosis caused by working conditions at that business where the symptoms have not been identified for say ten years or longer.

in your scenario I think that the same principle might apply. You should discuss with your broker.

This only applies to Employers Liability claims, not public or products liability.

a) Based on me charging the customer for the work and me then paying the tradesperson (if I'm liable would a signed declaration by the tradesperson prior to any work accepting liability pass this onto them?)

You are the contracted person - if anything goes wrong you are legally liable. In practical terms, your customer will pursue you for the loss or damage, you will have to deal with that but can then pursue the tradesperson yourself for your losses (eg. payment to your customer etc).

b) Based on me 'recommending' trades people and the customer paying them directly, I just supply the goods

You will be responsible for the loss or damage caused by your goods, but the installation etc will be the responsibility of the tradesman

c) Is there a legal liability period for such work and if so, how long is this?

The legal Statute of Limitations apply - you will need to google, but I think it is something like 6 years from the date of damage caused, or for financial loss it is 6 years after the discovery of the financial loss. Not sure whether there is a limitation where a personal injury to someone applies.



If you are looking to minimise your liability, I would suggest you only invoice/supply the goods and the tradesman has their own contract in place with the customer for their work.

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks for the replies, appreciate the information. In theory then, say something was to happen many years down the line and a person was no longer in business and therefor had no insurance, they're in a very sticky situation?

It depends on the insurance. The right policies will cover the liability even if the policy was discontinued after the event. I think there is a technial term for this, @Frank the Insurance guy will be able to help.

EDIT: Should have read the rest of the posts before replying!

 

[Nathanto]

I have professionally seen many circumstances where a 3rd party (a former employee) makes a claim under an insurance policy held many years ago by a business that has since closed down and no longer exists. They claim directly against the insurer under the Third Party Rights Against Insurers legislation.

Conversely I've been involved in an unfortunate case where the business owners lost everything because an employee sued them for an asbestos-related illness and no-one could remember or had any records who the insurers were a decade or so earlier...

The takeaway being that the OP needs insurance and importantly needs robust record-keeping of who did what and when and what insurance was in place at any particular time; of course in this digital age it should be a much easier job than relying on a faded scrap of paper from twenty years ago.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

In theory then, say something was to happen many years down the line

Like what?

 

[Ozzy]

Like what?

In short, anything potentially. A cupboard falls off the wall killing a small child as it falls on them, and it comes to light that the right wall fixings had not been used but it wasn't until they eventually used the cupboard fully 5 years after the kitchen was fitted...

Side note, although it didn't cause any lasting damage, this happened to us (my wife and I) when we chose to store tinned food in a wall cupboard and not the low level cupboards to stop the baby getting at them all. The cupboard fell off the wall and pulled down a shed tonne of plasterboard - about 7 years after the kitchen had been fitted.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

OK - that makes sense!

Fastening the cupboard to the plasterboard seems a bit poor as well, but, in a kitchen, steam causes damp that can affect plasterboard.......

Interested to know the limitation timescale (that Frank mentioned).

 

[pentel]

Conversely I've been involved in an unfortunate case where the business owners lost everything because an employee sued them for an asbestos-related illness and no-one could remember or had any records who the insurers were a decade or so earlier...

We had a similar experience with a claim made over 30 years after the employee left the company.

We were still with the same broker who had no records of the insurer. Fortunately we eventually found the details of the policy and the claim promptly disappeared, helped by the fact we also still had records of issuing appropriate PPE and carrying out training.

A lot of people are too keen to dispose of old records but his can come back to bite you.

Something to consider when making decisions re GDPR.

 

[fisicx]

In short, anything potentially. A cupboard falls off the wall killing a small child as it falls on them, and it comes to light that the right wall fixings had not been used but it wasn't until they eventually used the cupboard fully 5 years after the kitchen was fitted...

Side note, although it didn't cause any lasting damage, this happened to us (my wife and I) when we chose to store tinned food in a wall cupboard and not the low level cupboards to stop the baby getting at them all. The cupboard fell off the wall and pulled down a shed tonne of plasterboard - about 7 years after the kitchen had been fitted.

Liability is with the person you paid to install the kitchen. Who may not be the person who did the installation.

This is similar to the house next door where the subbies built the wall in the wrong place and the roof didn’t fit. The main contractor is liable for the work the brikkies did.