Which back end for our website?

[eteb3]

I'm a trustee of a very small charity, but we plan to do a big fundraiser (well, big for us) to buy a building. That will last perhaps a year tops, then we'll be back to our old tiny ways.

We've had a discussion with a web developer who's suggested we consider WordPress, Framer, and SquareSpace.

SquareSpace looks too expensive month-to-month.

So my question re the other two is: which would you recommend for a small charity with

1. a small static site AND
2. a high-spec fundraising page, taking donations, donor info, Gift Aid, etc, and probably also sale of debentures*

I imagine these are two quite different jobs. Should we run a separate site for the fundraiser? Or is there a sweet-spot that would do both?

Many thanks.

*(before someone screams, a charity's debentures are exempt securities under FSMA/RAO. So just a regular shop window to buy them at £100 a time will do it)

 

[fisicx]

Wordpress and a payment portal will work. We use stripe for our car club and never had any problems. We use it for all sorts of different things: payments, raffles, donations etc. dead easy for a halfway decent developer to set up: the api is easy to use.

You can make the site look like anything you want. No idea why they think you need framer.

 

[antropy]

We've had a discussion with a web developer who's suggested we consider WordPress, Framer, and SquareSpace.

What about something like JustGiving?

Paul.

 

[Sean Lee-Amies]

It really depends on your budget, but long term priorities should be with who you work with rather than what platform to use; if the team/person isn't good, or they keep disappearing, you'll probably end up in a nightmare situation regardless of the platform you use. You'd also want to avoid pushing your chosen person/team to use tools they aren't really that familiar with - every web person has a favourite tool they're able to leverage more fully than the others they can work with

There are plenty of free/low cost crowdfunding tools out there which you could consider: GoFundMe, JustGiving, Crowdfunding etc.

Just know that you'll have maybe 10% control over what the resulting web pages look like, and if you want to launch any web pages that aren't about the donations, they may not support your full vision.

---

SquareSpace is a no-cod/low-code web building platform, meaning that the people who use them are not website development experts, they won't know how to code and they are typically better described as "technology tinkerers".

It's a great platform if you just want to get a basic brochure website up and running, my team haven't used it much due to the many limitations but I suspect that if you have intricate payment requirements beyond "click here to pay X" you may start to struggle.

---

WordPress - some love it, some hate it.

We're in the love it camp, but you need to know there are two main versions of WordPress. The no/low-code variant (pre-made themes and page builders like BeaverBuilder) and then the bespoke coded version (that's what my team specialises in).

Many of the comments about SquareSpace apply equally to no/low-code WordPress sites.

With a bespoke website, every web page is coded from scratch by a real developer that knows how to code. This gives you unlimited freedom around design and extremely high flexibility around technical specifications, it would be more than enough for anything you need - as long as you web team (really) know HTML, CSS, PHP and JavaScript, the world is your oyster.

---

Framer has about 0.55% marketshare (it won't let me post a link but just search "framer marketshare").

I'd not heard of it until today. It's another no/low-code tool which means it cannot escape the limitations of enabling non developers to (sort of) do the same things as developers. Comments about SquareSpace apply equally here as well - this company just seems to have a bit more marketing budget and a penchant for modern branding.

Just in case it comes up in your journey of knowledge, don't be fooled by any AI tools claiming to be able to replace developers or other no/low code tools. It's not there yet.

---

All in all, if your web person/team has a strong grasp of web development, you'll run into less problems with bespoke WordPress over using no/low code tools - but it will likely cost more.

It just depends what your priorities are really, low cost, rapid deployment or high quality. You can pick two, expecting all three will likely result in a failed project.

 

[MeAndMyAi]

Another vote for Wordpress here. But you need to know that there are two types of Wordpress, there is the free blog, Wordpress side (free blogging sites).

Then there is self hosted Wordpress, where you use Wordpress as a standalone CMS (Content Managed System). This is where you would set up web hosting and your own domain (ie; www.ourcharity.co.uk) and use Wordpress, basically as your web building system. Most hosts now with cPanel or Plesk will give you automatic setup for Wordpress, so it installs onto your hosted domain and you can login to the admin/backend, add a theme and get building (or your web dev does).

The most useful and helpful hosts here are UnlimitedWebHosting.co.uk, super quick and helpful customer support that may suit you if not completely sure how to go about this.

 

[fantheflames]

Long-term wise, I think you're better off on WordPress. I'd recommend getting a freelancer or an agency to help you set things up in a simple way that can be managed by the charity. Including analytics and tracking setup so you can improve the website over time. Understanding how visitors interact with your content can help workout what works well and what needs improvement.

Depending on the stakeholders, it might be worth having an external fundraiser site or a combination of the two. As a small charity, I can't imagine you don't need a big website, just the right processes in place to make it workable.

 

[MeAndMyAi]

Adding this, a quick search found a great donation tool for you. Google "GiveWP Plugin" (well worth a look for you as a charity). It is a free plugin for Wordpress (which means you can add it in your admin area and set it up on your donation website, if using Wordpress). There will be a premium as money is involved, so after adding it for free you'll likely need to ramp up to the pro/paid version. But all the info is on that link.

Hope it helps or gives food for thought and good luck!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

WP or Joomla

 

[eteb3]

Just want to say thank you for all these very helpful comments; and to @fisicx especially for a helpful chat on the phone.

I'll take all this to the trustees and see what they think: I'm definitely inclining to WordPress, with good entry-level options and all bells and whistles should we want them later.

PS @Sean , thanks re funding sites. Evidence is that people will give more readily if you host donations on your own site.

 

[antropy]

I'll take all this to the trustees and see what they think: I'm definitely inclining to WordPress, with good entry-level options and all bells and whistles should we want them later.

WordPress really is a pretty awful platform, it's very slow, it's not coded well, and it gets hacked very regularly.

If you want something self-hosted and open source but much better in every way look at ConcreteCMS.

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

WordPress really is a pretty awful platform, it's very slow, it's not coded well, and it gets hacked very regularly.

Only if you don't know how to use it.

 

[antropy]

Only if you don't know how to use it.

Right, but is the OP a WP expert?

Paul.

 

[eteb3]

Thanks, @antropy . I'm a total OSS fan.

No, the OP is not a WP expert! Priority is a site we can leave well alone, until we want to expand it significantly for a large fundraiser - when it needs to be very slick.

What does it mean if WP gets hacked? Usual case and worst case would be helpful!

 

[Shopclicks]

Right, but is the OP a WP expert?

Maybe not. But they seem to be pretty good at asking questions.

 

[MeAndMyAi]

Only if you don't know how to use it.

Woocommerce runs about 2/3rds of all shopping carts. Opencart about 0.1%. It's all down to the sheer amount of extras/plugins and developers that support it. Wordpress has that hands down. And never had one install hacked. It's not just about the CMS, it's about what is easy for the client too.

 

[antropy]

Maybe not. But they seem to be pretty good at asking questions.

That won't really help them get WP running fast and securely.

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

That won't really help them get WP running fast and securely.

Of course it will, if they come here and ask questions.

 

[antropy]

Woocommerce runs about 2/3rds of all shopping carts. Opencart about 0.1%.

Where on Earth did you get this stat? Or did you make it up?

It's all down to the sheer amount of extras/plugins and developers that support it. Wordpress has that hands down.

Nope, OpenCart has an extension to do anything you want, and they're usually much cheaper than WooCommerce ones.

And never had one install hacked.

Maybe you haven't but it's the most hacked platform: https://colorlib.com/wp/wordpress-hacking-statistics/

It's not just about the CMS, it's about what is easy for the client too.

Right, and WordPress is not the easiest to use.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

Thanks, @antropy What does it mean if WP gets hacked? Usual case and worst case would be helpful!

It only gets hacked if your password is compromised or you install an iffy plugin. If you have decent security (all free) then you will be safe.

It only it’s popularity that makes it a target for hackers.

 

[antropy]

It only gets hacked if your password is compromised or you install an iffy plugin.

Or if you don't keep it updated which in my experience a lot of people don't.

It only it’s popularity that makes it a target for hackers.

True but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

Or if you don't keep it updated which in my experience a lot of people don’t

Which is why you can now auto update. And if you have wordfence installed you get emails telling you to update. And you can set up 2FA.

It’s one of those leading a horse to water things. There is only so much you can do before giving up on the dumb and stupid.

 

[antropy]

Which is why you can now auto update.

And does that take a backup before updating? Or does it risk bricking your site?

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

It’s all about how you configure your site. Done properly you don’t need many plugins. And those you do are pretty stable.

Restoring backups and rolling back to previous versions of themes and plugins is all built into Wordpress. It’s a whole different animal to what it was a few years back

 

[MeAndMyAi]

@antropy why would I make it up , what possible gain would I have (OP isn't even after an ecom lol!). Simple search gave me an article from this year by OmniSend 'open cart and woocommerce market share'

 

[eteb3]

Ducking the brickbats, can anyone let me know what the worst case is if a site is hacked?

Absolutely, totally unacceptable is theft of customer data. But if it's no more than a bricked site and a few hundred quid to unmess it, it might be worth the risk.

 

[MeAndMyAi]

Ducking the brickbats, can anyone let me know what the worst case is if a site is hacked?

Absolutely, totally unacceptable is theft of customer data. But if it's no more than a bricked site and a few hundred quid to unmess it, it might be worth the risk.

Shoot fisicx or myself a message bud, we'd both steer you right and clearly both understand and work with Wordpress on a daily. Literally nothing to panic over, easily protected.

 

[antropy]

@antropy why would I make it up , what possible gain would I have (OP isn't even after an ecom lol!). Simple search gave me an article from this year by OmniSend 'open cart and woocommerce market share'

When I Google that I see "OpenCart has market share of 0.37%".

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

When I Google that I see "OpenCart has market share of 0.37%".

Is it time to switch to WP yet? Bit of practice and you'll get the hang of it

 

[antropy]

Is it time to switch to WP yet? Bit of practice and you'll get the hang of it

Sadly it's not fast enough and can't handle the traffic.

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

Sadly it's not fast enough and can't handle the traffic.

I know you don't believe that and I'm not sure why you would post it and expect people to take you seriously.

 

[antropy]

I know you don't believe that and I'm not sure why you would post it and expect people to take you seriously.

I do believe that. I've explained on numerous posts to you, we tried it and whatever caching plugins we tried, we could not get the kind of performance we wanted.

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

I do believe that. I've explained on numerous posts to you, we tried it and whatever caching plugins we tried, we could not get the kind of performance we wanted.

What do you have that performs better? Example please.

 

[antropy]

What do you have that performs better? Example please.

ConcreteCMS, check the page load times:

• https://www.antropy.co.uk/
• https://untitledstudio.com/
• https://www.toucanpropertyservices.com/
• https://www.kallosturin.com/

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

ConcreteCMS, check the page load times:

The only one of those performing well is the toucan site. Whatever you've done with that site, do it with the rest.

None of them perform better than this Wordpress site:

PageSpeed Insights

pagespeed.web.dev

 

[fisicx]

Just looked a toucan - gallery is broken.

And it is responsive but it's not very good. Might be fast but it's not a good lead generator. Doesn't even have a contact form.

 

[fisicx]

antropy scores 57/100 on Google and on pingdom it gets a grade D score (67 server requests!).

 

[YasmeenLondon]

Sadly it's not fast enough and can't handle the traffic.

Paul.

I'm genuinely curious about what kind of traffic do you have when WordPress is deemed good enough to power the White House website, Nasa website, Times Magazine and many, many more.

 

[MeAndMyAi]

And not sure if it's Concrete CMS or you, but all very blocky, reminiscent of Dreamweaver type stuff way back. And those basic sites don't really draw much anyway, just loading text, css and pics. I'm currently building ceramicsmart.com and numbers not far off, before I even start condensing CSS/Minify etc. This is drawing a huge amount of stuff (ecomm multivendor using Porto/Wordpress)

 

[antropy]

The only one of those performing well is the toucan site. Whatever you've done with that site, do it with the rest.

Nonsense, they're all faster than any of your WordPress sites.

Paul.

 

[antropy]

Just looked a toucan - gallery is broken.

No it's not.

Doesn't even have a contact form.

It's got what the client wanted.

Paul.