Where Have They All Gone

[RobinBHM]

Then get some political influence. Meet MPs. Meet candidates. Become member of a party.
Support your mp.

You are thinking of one small aspect of influence.
It can be considerably wider.

You influence other people around you at times? It's no different.
The elected officials, whether in the government, in the biggest Westminster party, or one of the other parties, are all human. Influenced by those around them, by those they meet with, by those they read, those they watch.

But if you choose not to influence them that is your choice. Not because you cannot but because you choose not.

thats a smug and untrue answer.

go and look at Tory donors and how they get to influence policy in return for money.

this Tory government is getting huge attraction from US libertarian groups...because they can get access to a Tory MP by chucking a few £k at a brexit propaganda site, like the IEA.

 

[RobinBHM]

I also don't understand the joy from Brexiteers, when they scream 'the EU will collapse in a few years'

It isnt joy.....its a desperate plea for validation

look at the facts....brexiteers have become more and more angry as time passes...why?

Because brexit is and never will deliver what was promised

that red wall isnt gonna be too happy when brexit delivers more levelling down.

guess which part of the country depends on EU trade the most....the industrial heartlands of the North.
guess what this government will do with brexit....deregulate bringing money into finance, hedge funds, more money laundering, tax cuts......

 

[RobinBHM]

As decisions are made by those who turn up....
Those who didn't bother turning up can't then complain when the decision is different to what they want.

Luckily we aren't a country requiring every adult to vote at gunpoint. Its choice.

the people who are the most divisive and angry are brexiteers.

brexit will cause considerable problems next year as a result of leaving the Single Market.........those that are paying attention know that, naturally brexiteers love to interpret that as complaining.

 

[RobinBHM]

...that’s because the youngsters couldn’t be bothered to turn up though.

the bleeding obvious...... youngsters are the future and they are pro EU

brexiteers are mostly 50 plus.

The UK has the worlds largest harmonised customs union on its doorstep which is its largest trade partner by a country mile

once there are some adults in no10 we will see a slow move to closer relationship with the EU again.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

the people who are the most divisive and angry are brexiteers.

brexit will cause considerable problems next year as a result of leaving the Single Market.........those that are paying attention know that, naturally brexiteers love to interpret that as complaining.

Rubbish....the rest of the world is queuing up to do trade deals at preferential terms with the UK, fishing will flourish with 90% of its market gone and no financial institutions or manufacturers will leave the UK. Sprinkle £350M a week for the NHS on top and the UK will be the land of milk and honey.

Nah, you were right. It's a load of complete bollox, perpetrated on the thick and gullible by the rich and powerful. All you have to do is wave a Union Jack and a few million idiots will shout about patriotism, while you sell what's left of the country's assets to foreign powers.

 

[RobinBHM]

Japans deal is worse than what we had with the EU

The deal was political symbolism...there was no attempt at getting a good deal for trade benefit.

 

[RobinBHM]

Rubbish....the rest of the world is queuing up to do trade deals at preferential terms with the UK

You nearly had me there

Dont get me wrong, I have no illusions the EU is a pragon...it has serious structural problems and needs reform....but brexit has never been built on any sensible discussion and most people in the UK are totally ignorant of the EU and the Single Market

theres no brexit destination that is better than we had. If there was, the brexit campaign wouldve been built on facts and evidence......not sovrinty n fish.

 

[simon field]

the bleeding obvious...... youngsters are the future and they are pro EU

brexiteers are mostly 50 plus.
.

Eh?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Youngsters like the EU. But they didn’t care enough to show it at the referendum.

 

[The Byre]

How about "No representation without taxation!"? (Just a thought!)

If you want to retire or stop paying taxes, no vote! I am 70 and I am working and paying taxes. If you want to retire and draw a state pension - OK, but no vote!

And while we are here, why is Scotland being forced out of the EU? Another thought!

 

[RobinBHM]

Eh?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Youngsters like the EU. But they didn’t care enough to show it at the referendum.

Young people mostly arent really engaged with politics and nobody thought leave would get a majority.

It wasnt about not caring enough, more about not knowing one needed to care

Brexit was the death rattle of British imperialism, young people are more interested in going to uni in Barcelona

 

[simon field]

Can’t blame them.

All the politicians I’ve ever seen & heard (I’m 51) have turned out to be been power-hungry liars.

Each to their own though. Not come across any imperialists lately I must admit...

Edit: when I say ‘politicians’ I actually mean ‘the government’

 

[Mr D]

the bleeding obvious...... youngsters are the future and they are pro EU

brexiteers are mostly 50 plus.

The UK has the worlds largest harmonised customs union on its doorstep which is its largest trade partner by a country mile

once there are some adults in no10 we will see a slow move to closer relationship with the EU again.

You are about 15 years away from having a young (now) person in charge in number 10.
Most likely a Tory. Unless labour can appeal to a much wider group of voters than last election.
So look at all the Tories and labour MPs who meet your requirements - any of them likely to do as you wish?

Could be a lot longer than 15 years.

 

[Mr D]

How about "No representation without taxation!"? (Just a thought!)

If you want to retire or stop paying taxes, no vote! I am 70 and I am working and paying taxes. If you want to retire and draw a state pension - OK, but no vote!

And while we are here, why is Scotland being forced out of the EU? Another thought!

Scotland is not being forced out.
The UK voted to leave. Scotland is by their own decision a part of the UK.
You not recall the vote a few years back, considerable majority voted to stay in the UK.

 

[The Byre]

As a part of the promise that the UK would stay in the EU.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

As a part of the promise that the UK would stay in the EU.

Among other bullshit promises.

 

[Mr D]

As a part of the promise that the UK would stay in the EU.

And we did at the time.

Then later the UK voted to leave.

 

[The Byre]

And we did at the time.

Then later the UK voted to leave.

The very moment the result for the 2014 indi-ref went through, plans were laid for the 2016 EU ref to renege on those promises.

The Westminister government only sticks to its promises if it is convenient to do so. It matters not whether it is Labour or Conservative or any combination of these liars, the very act of getting up that greasy pole seems to make liars out of them. I am sure that May, Johnson, Cameron, Clegg, Starmer and that Communist weasel in wellies did not start out in life as liars, but they certainly ended their careers as liars.

This litany of lies has not been without consequence -

It is not a tribal thing - at any SNP branch meeting, you can often hear as many English voices as Scottish. Until the 2014 indi-ref the English living in Scotland tended (c.a. 75%) to vote for a unionist party. That has changed with the performance of the Westminster parties this year.

If/when Scotland goes independent, don't blame the Scots, don't blame the SNP, don't blame the EU, don't blame the media - blame yourselves for treating Scotland as your backyard to be used and abused at will.

The Union was supposed to be a two-way deal. Scotland and the other nations of the Union will support England as long as England supports them. All nations to respect the wishes and needs of the others. This is and always was an empty promise. Whether we are talking about the clearances, holiday homes in Wales, membership of the armed forces and deaths in the various wars, oil or land ownership laws, Westminster has always promised one thing and done the opposite.

It took Johnson 11 months to go back on his promise of no border in the Irish Sea and just 13 months to go back on his promise of no EU officials overseeing goods going in and out of NI. For Westminster to push NI out of the Union is merely a question of time - it is, let's face it, an inconvenience.

Westminster is always keen to talk about the Union when looking for soldiers or a holiday home that stands empty 11 months of the year, but becomes remarkably reticent to the point of almost complete deafness when it is pointed out that all that wealth-bringing infrastructure seems concentrated on the SE of England and that Wales and NI have median standards of living below that of Greece or Portugal (as do many English regions away from London).

If the Republic of Ireland were still a member of the Union, it would be as grindingly poor as their neighbours to the North. The RoI may still have a long way to go in such areas as wealth equality and personal freedoms, but they have come a long way and achieved a very high median standard of living by

• Being in the EU
• Adopting the Euro
• Having very reformist and green policies
• Being extremely welcoming to free-market enterprise

Isolationism never leads to wealth.

 

[Mr D]

The very moment the result for the 2014 indi-ref went through, plans were laid for the 2016 EU ref to renege on those promises.

The Westminister government only sticks to its promises if it is convenient to do so. It matters not whether it is Labour or Conservative or any combination of these liars, the very act of getting up that greasy pole seems to make liars out of them. I am sure that May, Johnson, Cameron, Clegg, Starmer and that Communist weasel in wellies did not start out in life as liars, but they certainly ended their careers as liars.

This litany of lies has not been without consequence -

It is not a tribal thing - at any SNP branch meeting, you can often hear as many English voices as Scottish. Until the 2014 indi-ref the English living in Scotland tended (c.a. 75%) to vote for a unionist party. That has changed with the performance of the Westminster parties this year.

If/when Scotland goes independent, don't blame the Scots, don't blame the SNP, don't blame the EU, don't blame the media - blame yourselves for treating Scotland as your backyard to be used and abused at will.

The Union was supposed to be a two-way deal. Scotland and the other nations of the Union will support England as long as England supports them. All nations to respect the wishes and needs of the others. This is and always was an empty promise. Whether we are talking about the clearances, holiday homes in Wales, membership of the armed forces and deaths in the various wars, oil or land ownership laws, Westminster has always promised one thing and done the opposite.

It took Johnson 11 months to go back on his promise of no border in the Irish Sea and just 13 months to go back on his promise of no EU officials overseeing goods going in and out of NI. For Westminster to push NI out of the Union is merely a question of time - it is, let's face it, an inconvenience.

Westminster is always keen to talk about the Union when looking for soldiers or a holiday home that stands empty 11 months of the year, but becomes remarkably reticent to the point of almost complete deafness when it is pointed out that all that wealth-bringing infrastructure seems concentrated on the SE of England and that Wales and NI have median standards of living below that of Greece or Portugal (as do many English regions away from London).

If the Republic of Ireland were still a member of the Union, it would be as grindingly poor as their neighbours to the North. The RoI may still have a long way to go in such areas as wealth equality and personal freedoms, but they have come a long way and achieved a very high median standard of living by

• Being in the EU
• Adopting the Euro
• Having very reformist and green policies
• Being extremely welcoming to free-market enterprise

Isolationism never leads to wealth.

The SNP is incredibly tribal. They do accept people from elsewhere living in Scotland so long as they'll vote the right way.
Vote the wrong way and they don't want to know you. Understandable of course.

NI had a referendum, they voted to stay in UK.
Scotland had a referendum, they voted to stay in UK.

UK had a referendum and voted to leave the EU.

All nice and legal, and all done at different times.

Now if Scotland can get a new referendum on leaving, actually leave, then apply to join the EU then maybe the EU will allow them in.
Scotland may not even need a new referendum to be able to join. However the very arguments they use about London are also arguments that work against the EU.

I'm waiting to see if the islands break away from an independent Scotland. Same arguments against Edinburgh.....
Shetland I know has discussed the matter a few times.
Oh look, oil and gas nearby....

 

[Ally Maxwell]

The very moment the result for the 2014 indi-ref went through, plans were laid for the 2016 EU ref to renege on those promises.

The Westminister government only sticks to its promises if it is convenient to do so. It matters not whether it is Labour or Conservative or any combination of these liars, the very act of getting up that greasy pole seems to make liars out of them. I am sure that May, Johnson, Cameron, Clegg, Starmer and that Communist weasel in wellies did not start out in life as liars, but they certainly ended their careers as liars.

This litany of lies has not been without consequence -

It is not a tribal thing - at any SNP branch meeting, you can often hear as many English voices as Scottish. Until the 2014 indi-ref the English living in Scotland tended (c.a. 75%) to vote for a unionist party. That has changed with the performance of the Westminster parties this year.

If/when Scotland goes independent, don't blame the Scots, don't blame the SNP, don't blame the EU, don't blame the media - blame yourselves for treating Scotland as your backyard to be used and abused at will.

The Union was supposed to be a two-way deal. Scotland and the other nations of the Union will support England as long as England supports them. All nations to respect the wishes and needs of the others. This is and always was an empty promise. Whether we are talking about the clearances, holiday homes in Wales, membership of the armed forces and deaths in the various wars, oil or land ownership laws, Westminster has always promised one thing and done the opposite.

It took Johnson 11 months to go back on his promise of no border in the Irish Sea and just 13 months to go back on his promise of no EU officials overseeing goods going in and out of NI. For Westminster to push NI out of the Union is merely a question of time - it is, let's face it, an inconvenience.

Westminster is always keen to talk about the Union when looking for soldiers or a holiday home that stands empty 11 months of the year, but becomes remarkably reticent to the point of almost complete deafness when it is pointed out that all that wealth-bringing infrastructure seems concentrated on the SE of England and that Wales and NI have median standards of living below that of Greece or Portugal (as do many English regions away from London).

If the Republic of Ireland were still a member of the Union, it would be as grindingly poor as their neighbours to the North. The RoI may still have a long way to go in such areas as wealth equality and personal freedoms, but they have come a long way and achieved a very high median standard of living by

• Being in the EU
• Adopting the Euro
• Having very reformist and green policies
• Being extremely welcoming to free-market enterprise

Isolationism never leads to wealth.

Yeah but wee ar taking are cuntry back.......sovrinty....innit.....

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Oh Jeff, you are going to like this one. Another great benefit of leaving the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/18/lorry-drivers-heading-to-eu-face-ham-sandwich-ban

Not only lorry drivers but holiday makers carrying a bit of food in their cars or carry on bags. No stocking up on British bacon or pork pies before you go to France.

I can't remember Nigel Farrago mentioning this wonderful benefit.

 

[KM-Tiger]

No stocking up on British bacon or pork pies before you go to France.

Same is true if you go to the USA.

Once on arrival in the USA, our hand luggage was sniffed by a dog and the dog reacted to my bag. I opened it to show it contained no food and the handler was satisfied. I think it was a residual smell from some salami sandwiches we had taken with us and eaten on the flight.

 

[simon field]

Yeah but wee ar taking are cuntry back.......sovrinty....innit.....

You do yourself a disservice by pretending that you only believe that the media bit/byte that the lowest possible common denominator can be the only reason that anybody could vote for what you yourself didn’t vote for, no?

Please don’t insult your own intelligence.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

You do yourself a disservice by pretending that you only believe that the media bit/byte that the lowest possible common denominator can be the only reason that anybody could vote for what you yourself didn’t vote for, no?

Please don’t insult your own intelligence.

Doesn't need to be the lowest common denominator, but it's a fact that the Wetherspoons union jack boxer short brigade all voted leave for just that reason. It's also an absolute fact that no one has come up with a single tangible positive reason for leaving. That's why people like me think that people like you are stupid. Because that's what you demonstrate.

 

[Ian J]

Not only lorry drivers but holiday makers carrying a bit of food in their cars or carry on bags. No stocking up on British bacon or pork pies before you go to France.

Hopefully we will reciprocate if the French start behaving like dickheads and their lorry drivers who are much more activist than ours will soon tell Macron what they think

 

[simon field]

Doesn't need to be the lowest common denominator, but it's a fact that the Wetherspoons union jack boxer short brigade all voted leave for just that reason. It's also an absolute fact that no one has come up with a single tangible positive reason for leaving. That's why people like me think that people like you are stupid. Because that's what you demonstrate.

That’s not very nice. I voted remain!

Edit: thinking about it, you’ve just perfectly demonstrated the very thing that swung it for the leave campaign - that kinda snobbish superiority which says ‘I know better than you’.

Most leavers I know are thinking more globally, about emerging markets & not protectionism or discrimination of those who aren’t in the crumbling trade club.

 

[Ian J]

Doesn't need to be the lowest common denominator, but it's a fact that the Wetherspoons union jack boxer short brigade all voted leave for just that reason.

let's all guess who is a patronising dork

It's also an absolute fact that no one has come up with a single tangible positive reason for leaving. That's why people like me think that people like you are stupid. Because that's what you demonstrate.

Are you aware that your forum user name is misspelt as it should start with a W

 

[The Byre]

I don't think that this (or any other) thread gains anything by resorting to personal insults.

And that goes for all of you.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Once on arrival in the USA, our hand luggage was sniffed by a dog and the dog reacted to my bag. I opened it to show it contained no food and the handler was satisfied. I think it was a residual smell from some salami sandwiches we had taken with us and eaten on the flight.

Are brexiters deliberatley thick. How many British truckers drive to the USA?

 

[simon field]

Are brexiters deliberatley thick. How many British truckers drive to the USA?

Oh, the irony!

 

[Mr D]

Doesn't need to be the lowest common denominator, but it's a fact that the Wetherspoons union jack boxer short brigade all voted leave for just that reason. It's also an absolute fact that no one has come up with a single tangible positive reason for leaving. That's why people like me think that people like you are stupid. Because that's what you demonstrate.

And you had the cheek to call me an idiot?

You may not have wanted to leave. The majority of those voting did, even if they don't tell you why they decided to vote that way.
Luckily we have a system that allows the majority decision to be implemented.

 

[KM-Tiger]

How many British truckers drive to the USA?

They will once we have built the tunnel.

 

[Mr D]

They will once we have built the tunnel.

Be quicker and easier to simply have them travel by hyperloop train. Load the trucks on, finding the US is the train driver's job not the truckers job.

 

[RobinBHM]

And you had the cheek to call me an idiot?

You may not have wanted to leave. The majority of those voting did, even if they don't tell you why they decided to vote that way.
Luckily we have a system that allows the majority decision to be implemented.

No we have a FPTP system that gives a party a large majority with a few thousand votes.

We also have a system where money can be thrown at MPs and political parties to influence policy.....something you like to deny.