Where Have They All Gone

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I might have been looking in the wrong places over the last couple of weeks but all of a sudden .

Those that preached about the benefits of leaving the EU have all gone


You forgot to mention that 75%of the international UK road haulage companies are at risk of going out of business !
There are even more examples of affected businesses but this is something I have an understanding of

Where are they all now ?

 

[Scalloway]

They've got their EU passports and cleared off to the continent.

 

[Mr D]

Doesn't matter, we are all Brexiteers now.

Deal with it best we can. Including keeping one of our smaller industries going despite them having a hit to the market for their goods!

Will one side or the other suddenly in Spring start making overtures that perhaps they were a bit hasty and could the other side sit down to discuss matters....?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

They've got their EU passports and cleared off to the continent.

Well they will be back in 3 months as we voted to abolish freedom of movement We have to return to the UK after 3 months

 

[Newchodge]

Well they will be back in 3 months as we voted to abolish freedom of movement We have to return to the UK after 3 months

Well Farage, I believe, has residence status in Germany due to his German wife. One of the die-hards has complained of 'Remoaners gloating' over reports about freight transport being refused for January. No comment about the transport problems, just complaints about people pointing out that this had been anticipated.

 

[The Byre]

Here's the briefing paper for politicians - or a crib-sheet for the dumb if you prefer -

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

It makes for some sobering reading!

 

[antropy]

Well they will be back in 3 months as we voted to abolish freedom of movement We have to return to the UK after 3 months

I thought that was if you only had a UK passport, not if you held a dual passport i.e. a UK and Irish Passport? You could still freely travel Europe for more than 3 months on your EU national passport. Alex

 

[Jeff FV]

I thought that was if you only had a UK passport, not if you held a dual passport i.e. a UK and Irish Passport? You could still freely travel Europe for more than 3 months on your EU national passport. Alex

Sadly we don’t all have Irish Passports.

One obvious, and very tangible, negative of Brexit is that my ability to travel, live, work in 27 other countries has been limited.

I am still waiting for someone to give me one tangible benefit of leaving the EU.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I am still waiting for someone to give me one tangible benefit of leaving the EU.

You will be healthier because you will be eating a hell of a lot of fish.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

One obvious, and very tangible, negative of Brexit is that my ability to travel, live, work in 27 other countries has been limited.

I assume you were doing a lot of that before then?

 

[Jeff FV]

I assume you were doing a lot of that before then?

Yes, and was planning on doing even more as my life circumstances change, although COVID curtailed many plans this year. Am currently also learning Spanish as I don’t like being the “typical Brit abroad”

For example, I recently saw a couple of job opportunities that would have been a perfect fit my skills and aspirations - the sort of thing that in five years time I definitely would have applied for, but won’t be able to do so now as a job requisite was to hold an EU passport.

I also worry that opportunities to work have been limited for my children, age 21 and 18.

So, as I say, tangible negatives. Still waiting to see those tangible positives

 

[Ian J]

Sadly we don’t all have Irish Passports.

Apparently I am entitled to an Irish passport as my paternal grandfather was born there and I can apply for one by submitting documentation including his original birth certificate. Unfortunately he died over 50 years ago so that's probably a non starter

 

[antropy]

Still waiting to see those tangible positives

The EU is responsible for a ridiculous amount of red tape and bureaucracy including the Cookie Law, VAT on Digital Sales, GDPR etc.

It remains to be seen if we can get rid of those once we leave but there would be an enormous benefit to doing so.

Paul.

 

[Paul Norman]

The EU is responsible for a ridiculous amount of red tape and bureaucracy including the Cookie Law, VAT on Digital Sales, GDPR etc.

It remains to be seen if we can get rid of those once we leave but there would be an enormous benefit to doing so.

Paul.

I have taken this post - the first, literally, by anyone, to put up benefits. The total time I take dealing with those issues is very close to zero.

Of course, for some, it will be more than that. But for me, those issues will make almost no difference. Certainly not enough to counteract the additional reporting requirements in the unlikely event I sell something to the EU from the UK.

Let me be absolutely clear though. I will not have extra paperwork as I won't be selling stuff across UK borders. I have relocated that business.

 

[antropy]

I have taken this post - the first, literally, by anyone, to put up benefits. The total time I take dealing with those issues is very close to zero.

For many the time and complexity is extremely significant.

And don't get me started on the Cookie Law ...

Oh dear, too late:

There are around 1 billion websites online. If it takes each one an hour to implement a relevant cookie message (under-estimate) at an average £50 that's £50 billion wasted on a message that just annoys people, and no one reads therefore providing the negative benefit that everyone just agrees to any old rubbish and wastes a click.

Like Elon Musk tweeted recently, it should be a browser setting:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1325844990870900736

Paul.

 

[Paul Norman]

For many the time and complexity is extremely significant.

And don't get me started on the Cookie Law ...

Oh dear, too late:

There are around 1 billion websites online. If it takes each one an hour to implement a relevant cookie message (under-estimate) at an average £50 that's £50 billion wasted on a message that just annoys people, and no one reads therefore providing the negative benefit that everyone just agrees to any old rubbish and wastes a click.

Like Elon Musk tweeted recently, it should be a browser setting:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1325844990870900736

Paul.

Well, at least you have answered the question. For that, respect.

I am not convinced it was worth it in exchange for the additional challenges of cross border trading when there is no free trade deal in place. But you have answered the question - even the politicians have not done that.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Am currently also learning Spanish as I don’t like being the “typical Brit abroad”

For example, I recently saw a couple of job opportunities that would have been a perfect fit my skills and aspirations - the sort of thing that in five years time I definitely would have applied for, but won’t be able to do so now as a job requisite was to hold an EU passport.

I don't know what a typical Brit Abroad is, maybe you're showing a bit of prejudice there?

I have lived and worked in Spain, not as a typical Brit Abroad though. One thing I learned whilst there was that, contrary to popular belief, you are not technically allowed to just move over there and start working although, obviously, most people do. There is a very bureaucratic process to go through if you want to make it official. I guess us being out of the EU would close this loophole somewhat?

I also wouldn't worry about the job opportunities as the Spanish are actually quite protective when it comes to offering jobs to foreigners. Not really in the spirit of free movement, I know, but that's the problem with reality - it tends to conflict with what people assume when their prime source of information is 'the media'.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I have met probably several hundreds of Brits abroad who have taken advantage of the freedoms and advantages that the EU gave. I personally have worked in Spain, Italy and Greece and have worked for clients in Belgium, Holland and Germany. All done with no paperwork or red tape.

I have worked in non EU countries where Carnets were required and I can assure you that if you think the Cookie Law is difficult "You ain't seen nothing yet!"

 

[Mr D]

I don't know what a typical Brit Abroad is, maybe you're showing a bit of prejudice there?

I have lived and worked in Spain, not as a typical Brit Abroad though. One thing I learned whilst there was that, contrary to popular belief, you are not technically allowed to just move over there and start working although, obviously, most people do. There is a very bureaucratic process to go through if you want to make it official. I guess us being out of the EU would close this loophole somewhat?

I also wouldn't worry about the job opportunities as the Spanish are actually quite protective when it comes to offering jobs to foreigners. Not really in the spirit of free movement, I know, but that's the problem with reality - it tends to conflict with what people assume when their prime source of information is 'the media'.

Not just Spain.
Cyprus used to have restrictions on foreigners taking certain jobs. Go through their process and you could apply, took months to get through the process though.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I have worked in non EU countries where Carnets were required and I can assure you that if you think the Cookie Law is difficult "You ain't seen nothing yet!"

But most people are not in the EU Bob and, somehow, many of them manage to live and work in other countries without their place of birth being taxed for the privilege.

 

[thetiger2015]

I am still waiting for someone to give me one tangible benefit of leaving the EU.

I've seen lots of Brexiteers come up with benefits of leaving the EU and I know many on here are pro-Brexit in the hardest extreme - however, I find a lot of what they suggest as good news for the future, is completely dependent on trusting the UK gov to deliver on their promises.

As I said previously, in the long running Brexit thread (I just can't even look at it anymore), the idea of Brexit doesn't really make any sense to me and the arguments for it seem to be based on what 'could' or 'should' happen. Given the track record of the last few decades of UK politics, I really don't see why people think Brexit is for the people. Why would they do something to help the general population? That goes against the entire recent history of the political system in the UK.

The UK government has spent decades - (be it Labour with Private Finance for hospital/school buildings) or Conservatives (more food banks than ever before and standards of living being questioned by the UN) - battering the population with new rules, higher taxes, more CCTV, more control, less freedoms....Brexit is either a continuation of that or a complete about turn and suddenly the little people are really important.

We've seen this play out with the PPE saga, the companies having millions pumped in to them, despite having no experience of delivering PPE or ferries or port operations etc. The complete mess at the borders and we STILL don't know if there's going to be some sort of agreement or deal or extension that alleviates the strain that we're currently seeing at UK ports.

They're now messing about with the covid tier system, we don't know if we're in or out of our own houses let alone the EU.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I have met probably several hundreds of Brits abroad who have taken advantage of the freedoms and advantages that the EU gave. I personally have worked in Spain, Italy and Greece and have worked for clients in Belgium, Holland and Germany. All done with no paperwork or red tape.

I have worked in non EU countries where Carnets were required and I can assure you that if you think the Cookie Law is difficult "You ain't seen nothing yet!"

I met a professional Yorkshire man on Crete he lived there and was desperate for us to leave the EU because "We are British"
I cant wait to get my visa and go back there and mock him for being a tw£t if his 3 months coincide with my next visit

 

[thetiger2015]

But most people are not in the EU Bob and, somehow, many of them manage to live and work in other countries without their place of birth being taxed for the privilege.

Yeah but not France/Germany/Italy - our nearest neighbours.

Fine if you want to go and work in the middle of the Greater Antilles but useless if you commute through to Germany and France for work.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Still waiting to see those tangible positives

There is only one that matters - that we will no longer be governed by unelected bureaucrats. Or putting it another way round, those that govern us will answer directly to us at the ballot box.

Everything else is a detail, there will be advantages and disadvantages, but nothing that trumps the above.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I've seen lots of Brexiteers come up with benefits of leaving the EU and I know many on here are pro-Brexit in the hardest extreme - however, I find a lot of what they suggest as good news for the future, is completely dependent on trusting the UK gov to deliver on their promises.

Fair point Tiger but I don't think people are that dumb to believe in Govt promises? I think you are either for the EU or against it and to nail it down to individual benefits/advantages would be too complex an issue.

I vote Tory, not because I believe what they say or believe Boris is particularly wonderful. I actually know a Tory MP and she is is the biggest waste of space I've ever know.

No, I vote Tory because the alternative is much worse. It's that simple.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Yeah but not France/Germany/Italy - our nearest neighbours.

Fine if you want to go and work in the middle of the Greater Antilles but useless if you commute through to Germany and France for work.

Yes, indeed. There are such arguments one could make but, overall, you can't expect people to base their opinions on a few niche issues?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

There is only one that matters - that we will no longer be governed by unelected bureaucrats. Or putting it another way round, those that govern us will answer directly to us at the ballot box.

You must have a very low opinion of the British negotiators who have worked to be part of the EU for many years. We never were governed by unelected bureaucrats. We were part of the decisions.

Like it or not the UK will not decide anything of significance in the future. Changes in the next decades will be decided by the big power blocks. The EU, China, USA.

We voted to become an insignificant offshore island.

 

[KM-Tiger]

We were part of the decisions.

True, but you miss my point.

If as voters we do not like something the EU has done what recourse do we have? Our own govt can be changed and as voters we have often done that.

And I think you forget that the Queen of the insignificant offshore island is also Head of the Commonwealth. Forget the EU, what will become important to us in the next decade is CANZUK.

 

[Mr D]

There is only one that matters - that we will no longer be governed by unelected bureaucrats. Or putting it another way round, those that govern us will answer directly to us at the ballot box.

Everything else is a detail, there will be advantages and disadvantages, but nothing that trumps the above.

We weren't governed any more by unelected bureaucrats back in 2016 than we will be next year.

Its great that you have a Conservative MP holding a government position and answerable to you. I hear some places they elected an MP that is not in the government. At best those voters can have a go about what their MP does in parliament. Or blame the MP for what other MPs who do hold government positions decided by MPs do.

 

[Mr D]

True, but you miss my point.

If as voters we do not like something the EU has done what recourse do we have? Our own govt can be changed and as voters we have often done that.

And I think you forget that the Queen of the insignificant offshore island is also Head of the Commonwealth. Forget the EU, what will become important to us in the next decade is CANZUK.

You didn't have an MEP in your area?
You not notice that our elected officials could attend a meeting, summit etc and put our point across, maybe even getting changes made?

Now as of less than a month away we don't get even a seat at the table and no more chance to influence things than the leader of Kenya does.

 

[Mr D]

You must have a very low opinion of the British negotiators who have worked to be part of the EU for many years. We never were governed by unelected bureaucrats. We were part of the decisions.

Like it or not the UK will not decide anything of significance in the future. Changes in the next decades will be decided by the big power blocks. The EU, China, USA.

We voted to become an insignificant offshore island.

Strangely I mostly agree with you.

We were always an insignificant offshore island group - just at times the mouse has roared! Now - we'll diminish and with the exception of UN security council veto power not even be worth listening too.
That little island group off the coast of the EU.

 

[antropy]

Well, at least you have answered the question. For that, respect.

I am not convinced it was worth it in exchange for the additional challenges of cross border trading when there is no free trade deal in place. But you have answered the question - even the politicians have not done that.

Thank you.

For the record it was a close call for me but I did end up voting Remain in the end. I was probably 51/49 in favour of remaining, mostly because of their human rights record, but I am still an EU-skeptic.

Also don't forget there is the "fee" to be part of the EU which we won't be paying by leaving. I know some would argue that it's an investment we get back but others would say we will get a better return on our investment by investing it in our own economy instead and I'm inclined to agree.

Paul.

 

[The Byre]

The funny thing is, when Germans, French, Irish or whatever nationality talk about freedom of movement, they think in terms of they and their children working around the World, being exchange students in far-flung places and opening up opportunities everywhere.

When Brits talk about freedom of movement, they seldom if ever think of themselves. Freedom of movement means Polish builders to the Brits.

 

[Mr D]

The funny thing is, when Germans, French, Irish or whatever nationality talk about freedom of movement, they think in terms of they and their children working around the World, being exchange students in far-flung places and opening up opportunities everywhere.

When Brits talk about freedom of movement, they seldom if ever think of themselves. Freedom of movement means Polish builders to the Brits.

And just think of the number of jobs for British builders next year....
All those skilled trades people that can be utilised rather than rely on foreign workers.

Oh wait, we don't have the skilled workers?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

And I think you forget that the Queen of the insignificant offshore island is also Head of the Commonwealth.

Most of which want nothing to do with us.

If the Commonwealth was such a power of good and the Queen was so powerful what are they going to do about Modi?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

When Brits talk about freedom of movement, they seldom if ever think of themselves. Freedom of movement means Polish builders to the Brits.

I'm highly amused at the Daily Mail getting all concerned at this late stage about brits living in Greece.

 

[The Byre]

In the meantime, I'm looking at house prices in various parts of Germany. I still have the right to live and work in 28 countries - Brits have the choice of two.

And I can drive in 28 countries! Nice to know.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Brits have the choice of two.

Oh Byre, I have more than two. There's Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland and England to add to Cornwall.

 

[The Byre]

Time for Cornwall to declare UDI.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

When Brits talk about freedom of movement, they seldom if ever think of themselves. Freedom of movement means Polish builders to the Brits.

You've run this past every Brit then?

When it comes to bigotry, prejudice and intolerance the left are always the first to resort to it.