Where have the morals gone?

[Leo-InstallingIT]

I like to think I'm a pretty balanced, fair person, I understand that problems happen and I don't like to complain for no reason. But recently two large companies, in totally separate situations, have really stepped out of line as far as I'm concerned.

I know some companies go above and beyond to give great service and I like to think I recognise that where it's due but it just seems to me that some large companies have completely lost touch of morals.

Is it just me?

I tried to book a hotel room in Dubai through Expedia in August which I recieved an error message stating that the booking couldn't be completed and it would be automatically refunded in 3-5 days and to try again. So, I did as instructed and tried to book again, only to recieve the same error message. To cut a long story short (more than happy to go into excruciating detail), it turns out both bookings were confirmed and they have taken the stance that I can't "Cancel" the one we didn't use because the hotel won't refund them. They don't seem to understand that their website clearly stated the booking wasn't accepted! Anyway they still appear to be fighting the chargeback after not getting anywhere with their complaints proceedure.

Now I move onto Vodafone!
We've been with them for a years and had a few minor issues, but this latest one has broken the camels back. We had some extra usage on a dongle on our November bill - fair enough, all paid, but I phoned up and was going to cancel the dongle to move to a company that can centrally alert us when any of the connections are about to go over. The advisor said that they could implement the same for us so I didn't need to cancel it - I would be alerted to my mobile number for everything. Fair enough, so we stayed with them. Then the December bill arrives, with even more extra usage on and I haven't had a single alert for it! I've phoned up to dispute this as I clearly wouldn't have stayed if they weren't able to implement it. There is a total lack of understandung of the issue, and despite many promised call backs I've only had one (later than promised) after posting on Twitter - they still weren't able to help and have had to promise me another call back!

Rant over! Needless to say both these companies have lost our custom for good, but where have the honor and morals gone?

 

[sirearl]

They have been sold to foreign buyers along with the rest of Britain since Maggie introduced "Anything for a quick quid " to British culture.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

Apparently so! I wonder how much those morals sold for?!

 

[Tim Coulter]

I don't think this is a question of morals, but more a problem of staff competence and badly-designed communication/escalation systems.

If I experienced either of the situations that you described I would also be upset and angry.
However, in both of these examples, I'd like to believe that the CEO of the respective companies would be equally upset by them and would step in to resolve them in your favour (if only he/she knew about them).

Unfortunately, as we have all experienced, upper management rarely knows about what's happening on the ground until a major incident causes a PR crisis. The types of problems that you have suffered stay buried in the lower levels of customer support, where nobody actually cares about you or me, nor has the competence to even understand that their company has made an error that negatively affects us.

Marketing and customer service is increasingly automated, especially for online and tech businesses. This is mostly a good thing, since it delivers the most consistent experience to users. But, when it goes wrong, there is rarely a mechanism in place to alert those in power. Consequently, the affected customers suffer unnecessarily and the broken automated process never gets fixed.

 

[Ian J]

They have been sold to foreign buyers along with the rest of Britain since Maggie introduced "Anything for a quick quid " to British culture.

Are you suggesting that foreigners don't have any morals?

 

[toastking]

BT have been simply horrendous since we moved there purely to get BT Sport. Their customer service is horrendous! The rant would take half an hour to type but essentially they lied to us, openly and repeatedly told us we'd lied about being told we could have BT Sport by them and their website and they passed us around the houses for literally hours between people who couldn't tell their arse from their elbow.

And thats the short version...

It was all so that they could outsource most support calls to cheap call centres. Meaning you got passed around internationally until they gave in, put you on to a UK centre and they then performed the same epic fails the cheap call centres has done for the last hours.

The thing is they have everything we want from TV, broadband etc. at a good price, but they've ensured we won't buy from them again and will definitely go to the competition with lesser offerings at higher prices. It's just not worth it.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

I don't think this is a question of morals, but more a problem of staff competence and badly-designed communication/escalation systems.

I agree in principle, however the job of the CEO/MD of any company should be to communicate the companies values and morals effectively throughout the company.

Where ever the failing is, it's a system they choose to represent their company.

 

[John Austin]

I don't think it's a problem of morals, so much one of dealing with very large, impersonal companies. You don't get a personal touch with telecom companies, even less with companies like Expedia that do business almost entirely on the web. Big companies make their money on quick turnovers and sadly, individual customers just don't matter. High Street banks are just the same.

Having said that, I insured my daughter's car just before Xmas with Swinton as she's learning to drive. I completed the transaction / purchased online through a comparison website, and was amazed to get a telephone call 3 days later from a Swinton representative thanking me for my business, asking me if I had any questions and telling me that in the event of any problems, I could pop into their local office!
Now that's a great way for a business to make a good first impression!

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

That's true, but you would think there would be a point at which someone takes a sensible look at it! Especially after being escalated 4 times within Vodafone. Even just from a business point of view of loosing a few £150 a month customers!

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

It makes a good argument for using small businesses!

 

[Alan]

More than a good argument, it is a major selling point of small businesses.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

Indeed, it's the entire reason we started offering telecoms and broadband!

 

[Ian J]

I don't think it's a problem of morals, so much one of dealing with very large, impersonal companies. You don't get a personal touch with telecom companies, even less with companies like Expedia that do business almost entirely on the web. Big companies make their money on quick turnovers and sadly, individual customers just don't matter. High Street banks are just the same.

People tend to buy from the cheapest supplier, often using price comparison websites to ensure that they pay rock bottom prices and then it's afterwards that they complain that the after sales service isn't as good as it might be.

When looking for motor insurance quotes recently one particular insurer was considerably cheaper than the competition, even after adjusting the quotes to make them all like for like but Googling the company's name brought up loads of complaints about the poor service so I didn't bother taking up their quote.

 

[Mr A P Davies]

I've had a few run ins with Voda, but I'm still with them, and have been for many years. Unlike Orange, who I'll never deal with again, and have only just managed to be able to eat a satsuma without flying into a rage.

Look at it from the operatives point of view. They are probably on a pittance, it's doubtful they are doing their dream job, same as their supervisors, and managers above them.
The ones at the top are doing very nicely, thank you very much, and the shareholders are kept sweet. They really don't give two hoots about individual customers, so long as the money is coming in in sufficient quantities.
They appear not to care, because quite truthfully, they don't.
You just gotta suck it up, it's the way it is.

It's not just big companies. I used to deal with a fairly large family outfit for supplies. They have a phenomenal reputation for customer service, plenty of good reviews on TrustPilot, well known in the industry.
The fooled me about on more than one occasion, with things that would have been very simple to deal with.
Why? I have no idea.
I think my account was handled by the one person in the company who couldn't find his backside with both hands.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

I 100% agree, and I don't blame the individual operators in the slightest, it's the system they have to work under. I feel sorry for them having to deal with unhappy customers, but if the system allowed for sensible escalation it would make things 100 times better.

 

[sirearl]

Are you suggesting that foreigners don't have any morals?

That may depend on the culture of a particular country.

What I am suggesting is that foreign owned companies do not have Britains interests as a prime motivation ,same applies to UK multi-nationals.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

Even if they only had their own bank balance as a concern you would think they would see the loss.

We have gone from spending about 8K a year with Expedia to spending nothing. Granted it's small fry for them, but it's a loss all the same for something they've had to legally pay for anyway.

On the flip side we booked a hotel through lastminute.com that charged us a resort fee that they didn't tell us about. Made one phone call to them and got a call back straight away from an advisor who refunded the amount, plus a bit to cover costs. They have now gained a loyal customer for simply doing the right thing.

 

[RPower]

Don't lose hope, there are some really ace ones out there. A similar thing happened to me on Booking.com and they really kindly sorted the whole thing out for me! I guess it depends on the company is my answer.

 

[justintime]

BT have been simply horrendous since we moved there purely to get BT Sport. t.

I've been a customer of BT on and off for years and never had an issue apart from putting up with the occasional broadband droid until they encouraged me to switch to infinity in September. Turned out the speed wasn't sufficient (10mg) so I asked to go back to ADSL.

They switched off infinity but couldn't connect me back to ADSL. I lost BT sports from Sky because we were having the BTTV package as well, but that got cancelled automatically and it took a nightmare 3 weeks before it all came back on.

Once my contract is up I will be moving.

 

[BigTree]

Don't lose hope, there are some really ace ones out there. A similar thing happened to me on Booking.com and they really kindly sorted the whole thing out for me! I guess it depends on the company is my answer.

That's interesting to hear as I just had a terrible operator with booking.com and perhaps it's worth trying them again in the hope I get someone else.

I looked at a hotel a couple of months ago, didn't book anything though, never received any communications to the contrary. Had a charge on my bank statement from the hotel in France for missing the booking. Looked it up on Booked.com and there was a booking made but it was missing info such as when i booked it or even searched it. Clearly an error on their system or fraudulent.

Spoke to booking.com and they guy wouldn't even look into it. First he just said I must have booked it. Then said I must have given my login details to someone else. Said they pass on my card details to the hotel and they're just middlemen and nothing to do with them. Wouldn't look into IP login or anything. Not convinced he even opened my account. Didn't want to know.

I'll try again but at the moment won't use them again (didn't last time either!)

 

[TotalWebSolutions]

What you really want/need is someone within the company to take ownership of the issue. I find that starting out politely explaining that you have been passed from pillar to post and that you just want someone to 'care' about your issue and 'take ownership' helps. Hopefully, you get someone that takes pride in their job and genuinely wants to help.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

Totally Agree. There are many times that explaining that actually makes a big difference. Unfortunately trying that with Vodafone has only resulted in them requesting a call back.

Recieving an entertaining update to the Expedia issue today (you have to be entertained otherwise you get frustrated). It's a response to my chargeback, which is just a copy of my so called order, with 3 lines saying that I am claiming I had no knowledge of the transaction, and attaching printscreens of the payments. So even the chargeback team don't read the correspondence! I'm well aware the payments went through and it was me who did it.....

 

[HarveyIT]

That's true, but you would think there would be a point at which someone takes a sensible look at it! Especially after being escalated 4 times within Vodafone. Even just from a business point of view of loosing a few £150 a month customers!

I could make quite a few comments on this thread, but basically a lot of it is down simply to bad management. And once you've got bad management, nearly everything else can get thrown into chaos.
I used to watch Undercover Boss when it was on, and that was quite revealing.
One further point, I am not racist in ANY shape or form, but when you have to talk to some operators in India..........

 

[HarveyIT]

It's also a sad fact of life (I reckon anyway), that the bigger the company, the more they care more about their profits than their customers. Sadly, what a lot are too stupid to understand is that without customers, they wouldn't have any profits. Sorry to state the obvious there

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

It's also a sad fact of life (I reckon anyway), that the bigger the company, the more they care more about their profits than their customers. Sadly, what a lot are too stupid to understand is that without customers, they wouldn't have any profits. Sorry to state the obvious there

Obvious to some maybe.....

 

[Rickeo]

I feel your pain.

I've been banging on about this for weeks now. It seems customer service/customer support has totally gone to crap these days in the UK.

I'm not usually a complainer and I'm very easily pleased. I have friends and family who complain at everything just to get freebies where as I rarely complain even when things do go wrong.

However the past few months I've had issues with:

McDonalds
Santander
Tesco
BT
TalkTalk

All of these companies have just failed to give any form of good or acceptable customer service.

I could go into detail about each case but it'd take me forever but each and everytime the service has been totally shocking. I was watching an expat documentary about Brits living in Japan and they said how customer service was amazing, they go above and beyond to help you. It's a real shame I can't say that about the UK anymore businesses seem to care more about getting your money and couldn't care less if you were happy or not with the service you receive.

 

[Dingman]

I had kind of similar experience although not quite large amount. I find that by takeing notes of the date, time and name of staff for each phone call i made I get problems solved out quicker. Also, go to the shop is a better choice, like Vodafone situation. I think sometimes this relates to the competence of the staff.

 

[BigTree]

I tried to buy an item in Tesco on the weekend and found the price was 3 times that on Tesco Direct and every other competitor's store and website.

I asked customer service to price match their own website and they said they couldn't as its a different dept (so?). They didn't want to know and said nothing could be done but I could order it online and pick it up from the same store later. Most likely the same box I was holding!

Made me think that I'd never get that lack of service in John Lewis, M&S or Waitrose who have always gone above and beyond. No wonder Tesco are struggling.

I'm finding as my expendable income increases I'm moving towards these other companies as service is becoming far more important to me now than finding the cheapest price (although they're not necessarily more expensive actually).

Anyone received any great customer service from a big name recently as these are the examples we should be following?

 

[Jeff FV]

Anyone received any great customer service from a big name recently as these are the examples we should be following?

Nationwide (building society)

I remembered I had an ISA and cash book account with them from long ago (circa 8 years) - we've moved twice since.

Phoned them up, got through swiftly to a very helpful, UK based, lady who answered my questions and sorted out my change of address etc quickly & efficiently. Was going to close the account and take the cash (not a huge sum) but have left it with them because it was all so painless and, I suspect, will be next time I need to get in touch.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

I'm now on hold with "Driving Home for Christmas" hold music with Vodafone's Customer Relations team waiting for deadlock approval as that's all they can do apparently....

Not sure the songs timing is the best... but I quite like driving home for Christmas so won't complain too much

 

[john1989]

Nationwide (building society)

I remembered I had an ISA and cash book account with them from long ago (circa 8 years) - we've moved twice since.

Phoned them up, got through swiftly to a very helpful, UK based, lady who answered my questions and sorted out my change of address etc quickly & efficiently. Was going to close the account and take the cash (not a huge sum) but have left it with them because it was all so painless and, I suspect, will be next time I need to get in touch.

My dad has had a terrible experience with Nationwide.


They keep sending him letters and phoning him that he is behind with his mortgage and that they will be taking legal action. Phoned them several times and kept getting passes around. Went into his local branch and was told he needs to phone them as they can’t deal with it in branch.


He’s just resigned himself to telling the callers to “f*ck off” and binning their letters. Luckily, the mortgage will be paid off in September so only a few months of hassle!

 

[Ian J]

I tried to buy an item in Tesco on the weekend and found the price was 3 times that on Tesco Direct and every other competitor's store and website.

I asked customer service to price match their own website and they said they couldn't as its a different dept (so?). They didn't want to know and said nothing could be done but I could order it online and pick it up from the same store later. Most likely the same box I was holding!

Made me think that I'd never get that lack of service in John Lewis, M&S or Waitrose who have always gone above and beyond. No wonder Tesco are struggling.

There are loads of complaints online about John Lewis and their "never knowingly undersold" slogan

 

[BigTree]

I hate that slogan "never knowingly undersold". What on earth does that mean!

I also dislike TK Maxx's signs saying 'Everything up to 60% off'

From experience I have found JL to price match and they give longer guarantees so usually end up buying electrical items from them. Although I'm sure they could argue their competitors are more expensive with an extended guarantee.

 

[Leo-InstallingIT]

I also dislike TK Maxx's signs saying 'Everything up to 60% off'

Did you find the one item that was 60% off?......

 

[Ian J]

I hate that slogan "never knowingly undersold". What on earth does that mean!

From experience I have found JL to price match and they give longer guarantees so usually end up buying electrical items from them. Although I'm sure they could argue their competitors are more expensive with an extended guarantee.

JL will only price match with retailers who offer the same length of warranty which is their get out clause and won't price match online retailers like Amazon at all. There are many complaints online.

I also dislike TK Maxx's signs saying 'Everything up to 60% off'

I often shop in TK Maxx as it's very convenient for me and some of their supposed original prices are quite ridiculous but I tend to buy only on the basis of whether the TK Maxx price is worthwhile.

Anyway I don't know why you pick on them as nearly every retailer advertises in the same manner

 

[Peter Durrant]

Morals = who needs em these days? It saddens me too

 

[TODonnell]

I've had a few run ins with Voda, but I'm still with them, and have been for many years. Unlike Orange, who I'll never deal with again, and have only just managed to be able to eat a satsuma without flying into a rage. ....

This mental image made me smile.

[Peel peel]
[Bites into succulent juicy fruit]
"Flipping telecoms!! [cough] [splutter]"
"Now A.P., remember your angina."
"Yes dear."

 

[TODonnell]

I think people in call-centres have little leeway and are managed by fat, sweaty guys who are under orders to watch the bottom line.

So big co's advertise "We care, we reeely care, look at us caaaaring" and then send you to answering machine hell when you have a problem which requires caring.

 

[Voicebooth]

Some of the problems occurring with poor customer service in large organisations seems to me they are caused by their sheer size.

My girlfriend recently settled a 12 month dispute with Vodafone - to cut a long story short, she was mis-sold a data-only contract for a tablet which was sold as "free tablet" for extending her contract by twelve months, but when the first bill arrived, she had her existing contract, and a totally new, 12 month contract in parallel.

The problems then escalated when she asked to return the tablet and cancel the new 12 month contract which she hadn't agreed to. Vodafone flat out refused, and even after endless requests to retrieve the call recording to prove it had been mis-sold, they were "unable to get the call recordings".

12 calls later, four letters and three separate debt collection agencies getting in touch with us, and the issue was taken to the ombudsman. After a few months to and fro, Vodafone agreed to back down and void any debt relating to the second contract.

All through the saga, my girlfriend was put through to different people in different departments, none of which took ownership of the problem, so it was never resolved internally.

It would seem Vodafone is "compartmentalised" that no one knows what anyone else in the business is doing, thus leading to poor communications and ultimately bad customer service.


Alvaro

 

[Ian J]

It would seem Vodafone is "compartmentalised" that no one knows what anyone else in the business is doing, thus leading to poor communications and ultimately bad customer service.

Vodafone has over 83,000 employees so it's hardly surprising that they have the occasional communication glitch