what sort of budget needed?

[Printing Deals]

What can be considered reasonable budget to get our website completely redesigned. It's bit dated now, and got some bugs as well.

With proper UX / mobile responsive / new copy

Thanks

 

[fisicx]

Themes are the easy bit. Improving the UX is the expensive bit.

The biggest problem is your ordering process, this looks bespoke and needs a major overhaul. I'd budget £500 for the theme, £2000 for the ordering system £1000 for UX and £1000 for copy.

 

[Faevilangel]

depends on what you want e.g.

rebrand of the business (logo, website etc)
just a new design for the website

Also depends on who is doing it e.g. freelancer, agency etc

You will be looking in the £500 - £5000 mark

A copywriter will normally charge per page for the copy, you're looking at somewhere from £20 - £100 per page (again depends on who is doing it).

Post your request in the tenders forum with more details e.g.

- rewrite 20 pages
- new design / theme for website (based on xx website).

 

[Printing Deals]

Correct, ordering system is bespoke and massive pain when developed first time and I am sure it's going to be same when overhauled.

I would prefer agency to do the job instead freelancer, so I get everything from one place rather dealing with multiple professionals. Obviously it's going to cost more.

Existing one was outsourced so didn't cost too much, we paid USD 2000. And then it comes with all sorts of issues which I personally have to spend ages to test and report. That's why this time I am staying local, even if it cost more.

But reason for this post is just to get some numbers to make up my mind.. and getting some good advice..

 

[fisicx]

I built an ordering system plugin for wordpress. The front end is easy peasy, as it's just a form (or set of forms). It's the admin side of things that makes it so expensive. The more admin options you want the more it costs. Consider this: if you uploaded everything via a CSV and the orders arrived by email you would reduce the development costs by a huge margin.

Question: how many people actuially use the online ordering compared to picking up the phone? I always phone or email when I need printing done as I can get much better deals.

 

[Printing Deals]

Very interesting. To be honest, I am more interested in user side than admin. As long as user get best experience, I don't mind using CSVs data upload or orders in email. But then I guess user won't get admin account either..

 

[Chris Ashdown]

There are plenty of middle priced £300-£1000 shop in a box which can fit nearly all trades and come with years of experience and all options including big forums and associated designers for that little extra if needed, Most will accept a spreadsheet of product information to quickly load many thousands of products and many are UK based

For some strange reason many feel the need to reinvent the wheel or see benefits running a company of free software when you can buy professional software at very low prices that are far easier to operate and have manufacturers 24/7 help along with regular updates to meet moving targets

 

[Printing Deals]

Chris, I have explored that area already, there are millions of ready made solutions for most ecomm businesses, but printing is different when it comes to online selling, all due to complex product structure and features to calculate prices. If you see many online printing website, almost every single one of them have a bespoke ordering system, and the ones seems similar aren't very user friendly.

But I could be wrong, if you have some example I wold love to see..

 

[AllUpHere]

I don't get involved in web design and development myself, but have plenty of clients who do. These cover the entire range from one man bands to decent sized agencies. If you would like a recommendation, or help finding someone to do it in the most efficient and effective manner, I'd be happy to ask around.

 

[fisicx]

Very interesting. To be honest, I am more interested in user side than admin. As long as user get best experience, I don't mind using CSVs data upload or orders in email. But then I guess user won't get admin account either..

How many of your clients log on and check their admin accounts?
How about if you replace the accounts with emails: order received > in print > dispatched

Have you analysed in depth how your clients order products?

 

[Printing Deals]

How many of your clients log on and check their admin accounts?

Well, none really, as it's not exactly proper account, its just so you can see the status of your order or upload artwork.

How about if you replace the accounts with emails: order received > in print > dispatched

As long as it's automated, it could work.

Have you analysed in depth how your clients order products?

Not in depth analysis, but majority order online and email the artwork or any instructions across and keep it that way throughout the process. Although email is being sent when status is changed but customers always call or email for the update, perhaps email goes to junk mail.

 

[fisicx]

OK, so knowing this do you really need all that back end admin? You can simplify the whole process and just have an order form. You fire back an email with the quote/request for artwork or whatever and begin the printing process. Payment doesn't even need to be through the website. People with accounts get invoiced, everybody else pays when they get the quote.

Build a site that meets the needs of your customers - which may not be the same as they way you want it to work. Researching and planning can reduce your site development costs dramatically.

 

[Printing Deals]

Thanks for very useful advise. That's exactly I want, simpler approach to reach same goal. Now million dollar question is how to achieve it? Where to find the right person or agency one can trust.

 

[fisicx]

Ahem...

Eyes down a couple of lines

 

[Printing Deals]

ahh, sorry, didn't realize you do the web development too. Please feel free to prepare a quote for me.

 

[paulff]

I'm from an agency background and have a small agency - and i'm not going to try and sell you anything, but take a look at the BIG players in print, with big developments.

1. Printed.com
2. Printing.com
3. exaprint.co.uk

These three competitors have absolutely fantastic systems, they're a joy to use - and I regularly use them all.

You'll struggle to get exactly what you want for less than £10-£20k - If you can afford it, it's worth every penny, but likewise, you'll have people quote you £40k +

Invite people to tender, meet a variety of developers, and pick the team best suited to your needs.

 

[Printing Deals]

1. Printed.com
2. Printing.com
3. exaprint.co.uk

Well, expect printed.com I am not big fan of other 2. If you ask I will rank solopress.com on top when it comes to user experience and usability.

Honestly I don't consider myself competing these giants, so having something similar is not my requirement, mainly for the reason you have mentioned already "budget"

 

[paulff]

Well, expect printed.com I am not big fan of other 2. If you ask I will rank solopress.com on top when it comes to user experience and usability.

Honestly I don't consider myself competing these giants, so having something similar is not my requirement, mainly for the reason you have mentioned already "budget"

Completely get you - I'm not expecting you to be similar, but your system should be as easy to use. Print is very visual, if you're offering spot UV, foiling, letterpress etc - people want to see glossy images.

Printing.com/Exaprint - their backend systems are fantastic, I can't fault them - not talking from a print point of view though.

I recently purchased 1000x 400gsm cards, double sided, matt laminated
I paid £32.00 including delivery and VAT from one of the suppliers named above, we handled our own design.

The same spec is £78.00 on your site.

I don't expect you to compete - but I always speak to clients with a 'triangle' of Speed, Quality and Price - Anyone can only ever pick two of these.

In your case, you're more expensive, and take longer to deliver (5-7 days) - but I can't comment on the quality, so maybe yours is superior, but I can't fault my recent order from one of the above.

Can your customers instantly re-process an order through the back end of your site? eg, re-order another 1000 business cards, at the click of a button?

I feel that if you can make the entire system a joy to use - then you'll increase sales from pre-existing customers.

For new customers, and a conversion point of view - you need to be more visual, entice with offers on glossy looking products with high margin - embossing, spot UV, letterpress.

 

[paulff]

OK, so knowing this do you really need all that back end admin? You can simplify the whole process and just have an order form. You fire back an email with the quote/request for artwork or whatever and begin the printing process. Payment doesn't even need to be through the website. People with accounts get invoiced, everybody else pays when they get the quote.

Build a site that meets the needs of your customers - which may not be the same as they way you want it to work. Researching and planning can reduce your site development costs dramatically.

I wouldn't get rid of an ordering system to have an order form.
A lot of people haven't got a clue what a 400gsm, matt laminated, silk coated card is - so won't ask for it.

From a conversion point of view, the system needs to be:

1. Here's a picture of a great business card
2. Click here to order this spec
3. Upload your artwork
4. receive product

Boom.

 

[fisicx]

1. Printed.com
2. Printing.com
3. exaprint.co.uk

The UX on all three is poor. They aren't even responsive. Yuk. If they are the best you can find PD can do a lot better.

 

[paulff]

The UX on all three is poor. They aren't even responsive. Yuk. If they are the best you can find PD can do a lot better.

Put it this way, all three are primarily online based print retailers.
£24,000,000 turnover from one of them.

A responsive website with a flat design doesn't equal a profitable company.
The UI/UX certainly isn't poor, at all, but yes - it could be improved.

 

[fisicx]

I wouldn't get rid of an ordering system to have an order form.

Not suggesting you do. What I am suggesting is you can simplify the whole process. See below.

A lot of people haven't got a clue what a 400gsm, matt laminated, silk coated card is - so won't ask for it.

Make this the focus - show people the difference, explain what options are available and then ask for their details. Once you have got their details you can upsell. An automated online ordering system can't do that.

I've done this for a number of printers and conversions go UP because it becomes personal not automated

Boom not required.

 

[paulff]

Not suggesting you do. What I am suggesting is you can simplify the whole process. See below.


Make this the focus - show people the difference, explain what options are available and then ask for their details. Once you have got their details you can upsell. An automated online ordering system can't do that.

I've done this for a number of printers and conversions go UP because it becomes personal not automated

Boom not required.

1. Like I suggested.
2. An automated ordering system can't upsell for you? Really - Let me know when you've got 20 minutes to discuss a whole host of plugins for a variety of eCommerce systems which can automatically upsell.
3. </boom>

 

[AllUpHere]

The UX on all three is poor. They aren't even responsive. Yuk. If they are the best you can find PD can do a lot better.

I looked at printed.com and I have to say I wasn't impressed. As Fisicx says the UX isn't great, and IMO most of the area above the fold on the homepage is wasted with fluff and arty nonsense. Sites like this tell me that they are trying more to show off what they can do generally, than what they can actually do for the customer looking at the page.

 

[paulff]

I looked at printed.com and I have to say I wasn't impressed. As Fisicx says the UX isn't great, and IMO most of the area above the fold on the homepage is wasted with fluff and arty nonsense. Sites like this tell me that they are trying more to show off what they can do generally, than what they can actually do for the customer looking at the page.

Yeah, both UX's can be improved, completely agree - but I'm stating that they're absolutely killing it as an online print retailer.

If you've got a print company who generates £4,000,000 in profit, and your UX is 'okay' or you've got print company which generates £750k in profit, with an outstanding UX - I'm guessing we'd all be happier with the initial company.

This entire section of the forum is just web developers battling against one another's words, trying to prove that they've got more oomph than the other, I was just giving my two cents without trying to sell a thing, no quote, no pm.

 

[iboxsecurity]

Printed.com isn't great - but it works for them I guess. Be interesting to hear more about the order system the OP has in place.

We built one for a similar print company a while back that was a bit complicated. I think the price ranges discussed here are around about right though.

 

[paulff]

Printed.com isn't great - but it works for them I guess. Be interesting to hear more about the order system the OP has in place.

We built one for a similar print company a while back that was a bit complicated. I think the price ranges discussed here are around about right though.

https://www.printed.com/order-wizard/product-options/business-cards
take it to this level - It's so simple to order, and a joy to order print with, it's a bit bloated prior to this though.

 

[AllUpHere]

Yeah, both UX's can be improved, completely agree - but I'm stating that they're absolutely killing it as an online print retailer.

If you've got a print company who generates £4,000,000 in profit, and your UX is 'okay' or you've got print company which generates £750k in profit, with an outstanding UX - I'm guessing we'd all be happier with the initial company.

This entire section of the forum is just web developers battling against one another's words, trying to prove that they've got more oomph than the other, I was just giving my two cents without trying to sell a thing, no quote, no pm.

I'm just giving a completely impartial opinion. I have neither the desire nor the skills to build a site for the OP. I'm a marketing consultant.

The firm with a massive budget can get away with a mediocre UX, as they have the funds to get away with it. My guess is the Op is a little more limited budget wise, so could really do with gaining the leverage he could achieve with an outstanding solution to the online problem.

 

[Faevilangel]

Gotta disagree with Fisicx, stick with the ordering system (as that is what customers are used too) and then bolt on extras e.g. one click ordering etc

 

[paulff]

Gotta disagree with Fisicx, stick with the ordering system (as that is what customers are used too) and then bolt on extras e.g. one click ordering etc

Agreed.

 

[AllUpHere]

Gotta disagree with Fisicx, stick with the ordering system (as that is what customers are used too) and then bolt on extras e.g. one click ordering etc

We have a clash of opinion from the Wordpress Gurus.

 

[Printing Deals]

Agree, our prices aren't the cheapest, and that as I said is not what we want to compete against, no one can beat vistaprint if price is what one is after. Anyhow, interesting conversation.

 

[paulff]

It goes back to that three sided triangle.
Vistaprint will win on price, and maybe speed - but certainly not quality.

 

[paulff]

http://uk.moo.com/

Moo, on the other hand - they absolutely smash it on quality, and visuals - but you pay for it.
Again, they've got a highly visual site with a back end system that is a joy to use.

Not an 'order form' in site.

 

[Printing Deals]

One forum member has suggested to keep the existing website admin/ordering system and re skin with better usability, colours and some improved UX. Seems like good idea to me.

 

[paulff]

One forum member has suggested to keep the existing website admin/ordering system and re skin with better usability, colours and some improved UX. Seems like good idea to me.

I've just had a little play with your system, it's actually easy to use too - it's just not very visual or aesthetically pleasing. If you're looking at a cheaper option - just go for a new FED (Front End Development), but I'd still budget about £5,000 a decent, conversion optimised design and front end development.

 

[fisicx]

Gotta disagree with Fisicx, stick with the ordering system (as that is what customers are used too) and then bolt on extras e.g. one click ordering etc

I've not said get rid of the ordering system. What I'm suggesting is there are better ways to sell the products. The current system (just like those on the example sites) are too linear. They rely on the customer knowing what it is they want. An ordering system that allows the customer to tell the printer what they want and let the printer offer a range of solutions has a much better UX.

Don't try to compete with or be like the big industrial printers, offer something more bespoke.

We have a clash of opinion from the Wordpress Gurus.

That's silly. Just because we both have some WP skills doesn't mean we have to agree on anything.

 

[AllUpHere]

That's silly. Just because we both have some WP skills doesn't mean we have to agree on anything.

I did use the appropriate smiley face to make sure everyone knew it was a joke. I can see i'm wasted here.

 

[andygambles]

The major online printing companies are big because they spend money on marketing. That should also be a consideration in your budget and your whole strategy. You can have the most amazing website ever but if you spend nothing on getting customers to it then it was a waste of money.

 

[paulff]

The major online printing companies are big because they spend money on marketing. That should also be a consideration in your budget and your whole strategy. You can have the most amazing website ever but if you spend nothing on getting customers to it then it was a waste of money.

Quite true, I recently opened an account with Exaprint based on coming across them on sponsored Facebook advertising. I think I discovered printed.com the same way too.