What make a good logo?

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Jun 1, 2005
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I have received some drafts for a new logo. I like some of them better than others but would like some advice on things to consider before requesting any revisions. Should a logo be all text or should it contain some symbols? How many colours are best? Do some colours work better than others? Is it important to have a tagline?

Any others things to watch out for??

Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
Here's my take on things. :)

Your logo is a graphic representation of your company name, trademark or brand. A unique, recognisable identity or 'corporate logo' has become an essential part of business strategy and success so it's vital that proper consideration be given to this aspect.

A few do's and don'ts!

Clipart!:

It's a big no-no. Period. It's extremely unlikely that you will ever be granted sole copyright of a logo which uses clipart - even if you purchased the clipart or it came with your software. In many cases, the use of clipart in logos is expressly forbidden in its terms of use (read the smallprint or End User Licence Agreement).

Using clipart can also seriously damage your credibility and lose you vital sales...

Special Effects:

Bevelled edges, drop-shadows and glowing edges seem to be everywhere these days. Sure, they can add drama when applied sparingly but they can also distract (and even detract) from your design. Another consideration is when you need to have the logo printed - you will need a high-end (and usually expensive) printer to produce the work adequately. Keep it simple!

Colours:

Light greys, shadows and/or gradients in logos do not fax or copy well! Printing designs with these attributes on certain items (t-shirts etc) can also be problematic and/or very costly. Ask your designer to provide a 'spot colour' version as well as the gradient colour version. You should also obtain a suitable version for faxing and black & white printing for use in Yellow Pages and the like.

Spot colour? The most effective logos (especially in terms of cost) are those with up to three colours or less. A design which uses spot colours can be matched with high accuracy again and again across many different media.

CMYK? Also referred to as '4 Colour Process'. This method must be used for printing full colour photos and designs containing gradients and/or drop-shadow effects accurately. Instead of a pre-mixed ink for each colour, the image is broken up into percentages of 4 standard colours: Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black (CMYK). Exact colours are achievable across different media but it can be difficult and takes more effort and expense.

Placement:

Westerners read from top to bottom, left to right. So why is your logo in the centre or right of your page? Placed at the top left of your web page, it's the first thing prospective clients will see - and that aids your branding efforts.

Text-Only Logos:

A text-only logo is usually only the preserve of large multi-national corporations who are already well-established in their industries. Nike is just one example of a company that doesn't need to use its symbol to differentiate them from their competitors - they've already achieved supreme brand awareness through countless years of marketing. They are at the stage where they can use either the name 'Nike' or 'the Swoosh' symbol on its own without fear of brand confusion.

Not so for the startup or SME who should always employ a graphic device that their audience will remember and one which will set them apart from their competitors.

Monograms:

Use of monograms (initials) will make it difficult to build credibility. Brand awareness will also take much longer to establish than for a standard logo.

Lifecycle:

The typical life-cycle of a logo could be as follows:

Year 1 to 5 - Graphic Element and Full Trading Name (••• Davis & Davis Electrical Ltd)
Year 6 to 10 - Graphic Element and Shortened Name (••• Davis & Davis)
Year 11 to 25 - Graphic Element and perhaps reduction of the name to a monogram (••• D&D)
Year 26+ - Lone use of either Graphic Element or Initials.

Monograms may look great initially, but it will make your branding efforts that much harder.

Complexity:

Complex illustrations and photos generally make very poor logos. Think about how its going to look when it's reduced to small size on a business card - will the client be able to make it out? For high impact, simple designs work best and are easier to remember. And for most designs - especially company logos, make sure it 'works' in black and white too!

File formats:

Many inexperienced/amateur designers will design your logo in Photoshop or some other bitmap image editor. Fine if all you'll ever need your logo for is on a website. But what if your online business really takes-off? You might one day need printed items and even need to display the logo on advertising hoarding or place it on company vehicles. The logo designed at web resolution will be pretty useless; as enlarging it will cause it to appear fuzzy and 'pixelated'. Insist on vector!

Professional designers will initiate your logo in a 'vector' application such as CorelDRAW or Illustrator. Vector designs can be enlarged or reduced infinitely meaning that your logo can be placed on anything from a matchbox to the side of a 747 without any loss of quality.

Your designer:

Avoid going for the cheap option. Many sites which provide a bidding system are populated with so-called 'agencies' who employ a cheap workforce from Asian and other countries. As such, you are unlikely to ever communicate with the designer directly and, because of their geographic location, they are unlikely to understand your business culture and ethos. Others include 'the teenager' sat in his bedroom running pirate software and pretending to be a seasoned graphic designer or agency. Sure, you'll only pay $40 for his efforts but ask yourself if you're really getting value for money?...

Copyright

Finally, insist that your chosen designer formally assigns you copyright of the artwork in writing. If they don't, you could find yourself on the receiving end of legal action in 20 years' time when they claim for backdated royalties!

Content copyright © Eagle Imagery™ 2007

Regards,

Mark :)
PS: Make sure to get your designer's permission before you allow critique by third parties - it's a copyright thing!
_
 
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Hi Clare,

Jilly's newsletter is excellent : http://www.10yetis.co.uk/newsletters/tips-on-creating-a-logo.html

An great example and good tips. I agree with all of the above and will just add a few simple tips :

Make sure your logo works in both black and white and full colour. You never know when you will need to use either version.

Keep it simple, nothing complex. The person looking wont wait around to try and work it out. It should hit them straight away.

If you have a tagline or intend getting one, get thinking while your designer is still on the job. Ask for a vesion with the tagline and without.

Hope it helps,

Jacqui
 
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When I saw the title for this post I was just about to write in detail about corporate branding, keeping a theme and positive image, ya da ya da ya da. Then I read the existing responses to this post and realised I was out of my depth! Good work UKBF people :)
 
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Good informative post Mark :)

I didn't know that,amongst millions of other things I don't know :eek:

Earl
 
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Regarding the copyright thing - I have an artist designing mine and I asked her about the copyright to me and she said it stays with her but I can use the logo for whatever I want - I'm not sure I'm very happy about this now? If she retains copyright, does this means she can still use it too?
 
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Thanks Mark, Good to know some of those things. I was just looking at using clipart on my site. I took it off though since I couldn't make it look very good.
 
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Regarding the copyright thing - I have an artist designing mine and I asked her about the copyright to me and she said it stays with her but I can use the logo for whatever I want - I'm not sure I'm very happy about this now...
I wouldn't be either. Unlike other graphic design, your logo should belong to you and you alone (less portfolio rights for the designer). You should have exclusive rights over it.

Unfortunately though, your designer is perfectly within their rights to withold the copyright from you - unless you had negotiated assignment of copyright in advance. They're probably hoping you'll find out (like you have done) and then whack you for a large sum for the ©. It's poor form that they didn't offer you the option in the first place; quite underhand.

Designers should guide their clients, not screw them. :mad:

If she retains copyright, does this means she can still use it too?
Generally, no - less in their portfolio.

I offer assignment of copyright in writing - automatically - with every single logo project. My clients are also advised on best practice before, during and well after the project is complete.

:)
 
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I looked on copyrightservice.co.uk which said there is design rights - one part said:

Typically the creator of the design owns any rights in it, except where the work was commissioned or created during the course of employment, in which case the rights belong to the employer or party that commissioned the work.

I commissioned her, gave her the idea of what I wanted and she is just creating it for me so I'm hoping this applies - there's not much I can do now as it's in progress.:(

Jacky
 
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No - but I am the party that commissioned her... anyway, it's too late. At least I know now not to assume that when someone says 'logo design' it means the complete deal and ask first! But having said that, people shouldn't be allowed to say they are designing your business logo if they don't give you full copyright - that's like buying a pair of shoes then telling you you're not allowed to wear them! :)
 
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I understand your point but as Mark has mentioned, a good designer will always guide you through the process from the start. That includes making the client aware of all the details and ownership - not only on design. This is also how we operate when dealing with clients on design projects.

You can still negotiate with your designer in my opinion. You can tell her that you accept her rights as the designer to own the copyright of her creation but as you are the client, you will use the logo where you deem fit. Coming back to claim royalties and so forth will not be acceptable. This may not be her intention anyway so it is best to clear the air during this development stage.

Hope it all goes well anyway.

Kind regards

Kay
 
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I fairness, it's pretty much the same as hiring a photographer to take photos of your wedding - unless you negotiate in advance, he/she owns copyright on the photos even though you hired them to do the job.

The laws are in place to protect the rights of artists but some play dirty...
_
 
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You're right of course! She is quite young and starting out so maybe she doesn't know. I will try negotiating. She did say I can use it however I like but I now want piece of mind!! :)

Thanks for all the advice though - I've learnt so much in such a short space of time being on this forum - it's brilliant!

Jacky
 
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Hi Jacky,

(Oh, excellent post eveyone, superb answers)

Id really get this issue sorted ASAP, even if you have to bite the bullet and bin it all and start again with someone else!

No matter what your designer tells you, you can only be sure by owning the logo yourself.

Imagine you craked it and became a household name - how much would it cost you if the designer then came out of the wood work and wanted more money etc etc !!!

Im sure if the designer is reasonable they will see your point of view and act accordingly.

All the best

Steve
 
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I'll raise it with her later today. Hopefully she will see my point of view and agree, if not, then as you say Steve I'll just have find someone else. I hope it doesn't come to that as I really like her work! :)

Time for bed I think!

Jacky
 
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As a professional designer, I do see both views. Allow me to give you an example from the designer's point of view but don't get me wrong, I do not support this. Just simply understand.

As the client, you give the brief to the designer. The designer produces a brilliant piece of art. The client takes that work and implements it within their company. If the client is no designer ie cant tell .jpg's from .doc files, they will normally stretch, deform, clip, scale, layer etc all out of place. Then someone new walks in and takes a look at the deformed artwork and asks "that looks terrible - don' use that designer again". Hence some designers will state that the produced artwork is in deed a work of art and any changes made to it will have to be approved by the designer first - hence the desire to withhold the copyright.


Frankly if the client has any sense, they will seek advice from a designer or from someone who knows the basics. If my clients wish to have full rights then be my guest. It will be reflected in the price.

Above all, I am not implying that anyone who has posted here will go and spoil a nice piece of work :) Make my intentions clear.

Hope this helps.

Kay

Mark : Any views on the example I have given? A real experience I have heard. Not related to us in any way.
 
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I understood at the time when I asked about the copyright that I could do with it as I liked for my business - which was/is fine. I wasn't aware of the possibility of royalties at a later date. Money isn't the issue as I will pay to get what I want or buy the best there is, I wanted her to do it because I like her work. There is no knowing I will make a mint using her work or if she will ask for royalties, I just want the piece of mind knowing I don't have to worry about it.
 
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When I saw the title for this post I was just about to write in detail about corporate branding, keeping a theme and positive image, ya da ya da ya da. Then I read the existing responses to this post and realised I was out of my depth! Good work UKBF people :)


Agreed!! - Just saw the post and then all the replies!
 
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There can also be a tie-in that is justified. Example, a new business that you know are clearly having cashflow issues, but you believe will be successful in the longer term. It wouldn't be unreasonable to offer them a discounted price, in exchange for with-holding the copyright, if as a designer, you provide a print/web/others management service. If this is the case, then the deal should be made clear that you retain the rights on this basis, a documented fee for release of copyright can then be discussed.
 
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I am happy to report I voiced my concerns and we've sorted it out. We've gone down the route of what Kay suggested - a written agreement that she won't claim royalties in the future and not use, resell or distribute the images. I can live with that.
 
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I am happy to report I voiced my concerns and we've sorted it out. We've gone down the route of what Kay suggested - a written agreement that she won't claim royalties in the future and not use, resell or distribute the images. I can live with that.

It doesn't make sense! If the designer is willing to do that; why won't she release copyright? I think I would give her an ultimatum to release the copyright or you will start again with an ethical designer. What happens if you decide to sell the business? What happens if in years to come you want to update or alter your logo; you can't the images don't belong to you? Don't be silly, you wouldn't buy anything else and allow the seller to retain an interest in how you used that product. Your a shrewd business woman don't be held to ransom by fortune.
 
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I think what she wanted was the right to say this is her logo design and to use it in her portfolio. When I send a quote for a logo design it states the copyright is all mine till the price is paid in full then the copyright is handed over and I get the rights to use the logo in my portfolio.

Quite often I get clients ask me to copy another business logo and to alter the name I always turn these jobs down their would be no legal way to hand them the copyright or for me to claim it's my design. Too many people think a copy is ok and legal if they copied it by drawing it or altering it slightly. These clients always refuse to go for an origional idea and go off to use another designer. Thats all their print forced into the skip when they get found out.

Remember when you get a design price for a logo make sure it comes with all the details on copyright and what you will get before you give it the go ahead.

Don't have your logo done in a forum competition all the worst graphic designer wanabee teenagers will throw copied & clipart designs at you for that £10 reward.

For a reasonable price a professional logo designer will spend ages working his or her ass off designing you the best logo that can be done and it's only a once in 20yrs cost.

A logo is the first thing your clients see so make it a good first impression don't skimp to save very little the cost of a good design pays off huge amounts.

If your designer doesn't hand your logo over in vector format such as EPS, Coral Draw or illustrator file then the designer has not given you a logo.
 
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Nice going M.Jones. You should add a clause in there so that she must seek your permission before she can display or use your design. Intentions made clear. ie portfolio is ok to show etc. You would not want her to put your logo to be affiliated with anything that has a conflict of interest.


Yes, I've seen a couple of my logos distorted or changed. I write to the client and ask them; 'why change perfection?' ;) ;)

Lies with the eyes of the beholder ;) but you get my vote!
 
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I have received some drafts for a new logo. I like some of them better than others but would like some advice on things to consider before requesting any revisions. Should a logo be all text or should it contain some symbols? How many colours are best? Do some colours work better than others? Is it important to have a tagline?
As well as asking what makes a good logo you should also ask how important is a logo to your business? This will range from extremely important to not important at all. For instance I would expect a producer of hollywood blockbusters, e.g. Universal Studios, to have a good logo, but I wouldn't expect our local window cleaner to have a logo.

Someone mentioned, 'but what if you become a household name', well that just isn't going to happen to any businesses here that are operating in the business to business area, if you are in the business to consumer market then maybe, if you are lucky. But even if you are in the business to consumer market, a logo isn't so important if you just want a company logo for selling goods you buy at wholesale to consumers (ebay sellers prove this), but if you are launching your own product/services/company to consumers then a logo is more important.

Even household names can get by without memorable logos, how many people on the street could describe what the amazon logo looks like? And you might think that household name logos and branding are important, but companies have also been known to ditch these completely too, e.g. the UK Marathon bar changing to Snickers, Sketchleys dry cleaners changing to Johnsons dry cleaners.

So on the grand scale of things you have to assess how important your logo is. Is it as important as your company name? No, companies are more likely to change logos than change their names. If your business expands via word of mouth recomendations then it is the company name that is being passed on, not the logo. What about visual reminders? What is the logo of your favourite pub? You cannot see a logo in your mind, only the pub, its layout/decor, its products and service, and its location, so in some cases a logo isn't the visual reminder of the business. With a website like amazon, people off the street would have more success recalling the layout of the amazon website rather than the amazon logo itself - and if amazon changed both their logo and their web design they would still do well. Out of the 3 most popular search engines, you have a Google logo and a Yahoo logo, but no Live logo for Microsoft (just the Windows emblem).

I would say that the company or product or service name is the most important thing to consider first, and it might even be difficult to create a full logo without a decent name. The name itself might influence whether a graphic or a tagline is required too.

Don't forget fonts. There are thousands to choose from so don't just go for Arial, pick one in keeping with your business, try them at sites like www.myfonts.com (where you can see what your company name looks like in various font styles). Also consider that a font isn't just text, it is a carefully crafted piece of graphic design and artwork. A fontographer would probably say that the font is the most important aspect of a logo.

With colours it depends on what mediums (e.g. print black and white, print full colour, print few colours, web) you intend to use your logo, and you should either have colours that work on all mediums, or variations of your logo for different mediums.

As for the logo for our sitebuilder service, so far we are practising what I am preaching in this post. We do not think that a full logo is that important for us at this stage (especially since most of our work comes in from word of mouth recommendations). So far we have a text only logo, in a carefully chosen font. At a later stage we do plan to add either a graphic to the logo, or secondary graphic designs (not part of the logo), but these are not a high priority for us, they are a 'nice to have' rather than a 'must have'.
 
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If you want something memorable I'd go for something like this...:

xxx.b3ta.com/features/phalliclogoawards/
 
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Mark ... Hi mate. Good to bump into again :)

Anyway, as Mark has expertly stated a good logo design is not just something that looks good. A good logo design comes with a whole load of baggage too. Responsibilites are assigned to you and your designer. Some are covered by laws and some just by good business ethics.

Thousands of people fall foul daily buying cheap logo designs from kids in cellars who know a bit about Photoshop.

The internet is littered with law breakers who could well find themselves the main event in a trademark legal wrangle. I'm not talking about the designers here, they will just cut and run and leave you high and dry. No, I am talking about all the businesses who have bought their logo designs from places like ebay, webmaster forums, elance to name just a few. Not all will be dodgy but how can you tell? You can't can you.

If you want to avoid the possibility of breaking the law and ending up in an expensive legal battle over trademark theft, you need to use a real design company. Many specialise in small to medium sized businesses too so won't break the bank.

Make sure the company you use has a registered address. A contact number. A VAT number. A website. An office. These are at minimum.

These things alone will not protect you because you might still get caught out but at least you have somewhere to send trading standards and someone to take to court.

A good logo is created by a good designer as someone else already pointed out.

Simon
 
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A good graphic designer - sorry! :D

Agreed, but its not only about quality of artwork. Lots of good comments in the above posts. Its also about marketing and image. We asked some of our customers when we designed ours, as many of them work in design and are responsible for big brands, they were a big help.:)

Cheers

Mike
www.betterlanguages.com
 
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All the points you mention Calibre are covered.

What is being drawn is definitely a piece of artwork as opposed to a traditional logo and more to give 'Virtual Miss Jones' a face which is nicer than the one on the site now. I'm selling my skills set and if I can't deliver it doesn't matter how pretty my 'logo' is, it won't save me but I did want to know what I have bought I can use how I deem fit for my business which I can, so I'm satisfied.

This has been a fascinating topic.

Jacky
 
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Well my advcie would be to have a clear idea of what you want, and that it compliments what you want your business to stand for. Employ a graphic designer to refine it and give advice, but make it look professional and have a real "brand" look. To me the logo is about easy recall for customers - and a good catchy tag line works.

Gift Wrapped mortgages was my vision of a mtge broker who does everything for you and makes you feel good about what can be a minefield. First person who saw mine thought I was creating a franchise (i'm not) but you never know where things can lead.

Good Luck
 
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Its only because you have first class designers here ;) that also looks after your interests.
 
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