What is reasonable for a supplier of a faulty product?

[Steve Samuels]

Hi All,

My company manufactures some of our products in house, and ~5 months ago we invested in some equipment, purchased from a UK supplier, but manufactured by an American company.

We have recently seen the performance of the equipment degrade to a point where it is not fit for purpose, and as a result we have wasted time and money of other stages of our manufacturing that could not be completed due to this machine not operating suitably. We are now not able to manufacture, and have an un-productive member of staff, who would normally spend 1-2 days/week manufacturing, which we currently can't do.

When I contacted the supplier that we purchased this from, providing videos of the machine and how are are using it, along with the results, I received the following response.

"Thank you for contacting our management team.

We have forwarded all your information to the supplier as a matter of urgency and are awaiting a response.

As a "trade" supplied item for an exchange or refund to happen we need to establish the item has an actual manufacturing issue. The manufacturer will be able to help determine if there is a manufacturing fault with the item or if the fault was caused by other third party means. Please be aware the supplier may request the item to be returned for investigation and that the manufacturer insists that they are the only ones who are able to authorise an exchange or credit under warranty.

As soon as the manufacturer confirms a manufacturing fault, we will provide an exchange or refund under warranty.

We will come back to you as soon as possible and apologise for any inconvenience"

Does this sound right? What are reasonable actions and time-frames for the supplier to act? I am concerned that they will take a long time to have me send the machine to the manufacturer in the US, and that they will take their time to evaluate the issue with the machine.

I understand that they need to protect themselves from the risk of a user misusing the machine and claiming it was a fault, but without this critical bit of equipment we are stuck paying staff to be unproductive, and running low on products that we need to produce.

I assume B2B rights are different to B2C rights, so I'm hoping someone can let me know what reasonable expectations I should have.

When I followed up with the supplier to ask for more details on how long this would take, I just received the following response:

"
Thank you for your reply.

We value you as a customer and your orders that you place with us. For clarification XXXXX is a business to business (not consumer) trade wholesale supplier.

As previously mentioned:

"As a "trade" supplied item for an exchange or refund to happen we need to establish the item has an actual manufacturing issue. The manufacturer will be able to help determine if there is a manufacturing fault with the item or if the fault was caused by other third party means. Please be aware the supplier may request the item to be returned for investigation and that the manufacturer insists that they are the only ones who are able to authorise an exchange or credit under warranty.

As soon as the manufacturer confirms a manufacturing fault, we will provide an exchange or refund under warranty."
"

Thanks in advance for any answers and help.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[fisicx]

Seems reasonable. They want to make sure the equipment is faulty.

 

[japancool]

What did the terms of the contract under which the machine was supplied say?

 

[Steve Samuels]

The T's & C's section of the website states:

Guarantees and Warranties

8.1 Equipment and machinery supplied by XXX are covered by their respective manufacturer's warranties, details of which are included with the product. Faults which develop within the warranty period should be notified as specified. XXX will repair, replace or refund, at its discretion, any product which proves within the guarantee period to be defective, except where the defect results from misuse, fair wear and tear, wilful damage, negligence, abnormal working conditions, failure to follow the instructions, lack of technical understanding, alteration or repair without XXX approval. Any claim for defect must be notified to XXX within three days of receipt of the goods or where the defect was not apparent on reasonable inspection within seven days after discovery of the defect. If upon inspection, the Manufacturer deems the product not to be faulty, XXX reserve the right to return the product to the Customer and to re-invoice.

8.1.1 Manufacturer’s warranties do not compensate for any postage costs incurred when an item is required to be returned for Investigation therefore transit costs are at the customer’s expense and will not be refunded by XXX. XXX will forward return goods to the Manufacturer at our expense if they are confirmed to be faulty in manufacture.

8.2 XXX shall be under no liability regarding guarantees or warranties if any payment for the Goods is overdue.

I completely understand that they need to make sure I have not misused or abused the equipment, however from my perspective, I have only had this equipment for 5 months, it has had light usage, been kept cleaned and usage instructions and servicing have been followed.

I would just like to understand what would be reasonable to expect, as I know that the machine has been used appropriately, and I would be happy with either instructions on how to repair, a repair, or a replacement. I'm not expecting an instant resolution, and I understand that there are processes, but my concern is that as I have been unable to get an estimated time-frame in which this will be handled.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[MBE2017]

You would do better calling your supplier than posting on the forum, no one on here knows if it will take ten days or ten weeks. Once returned they will probably have a quick look, supply loads of photos and see what the manufacturer comes back with.

Unfortunately this is the risk in business of buying from a foreign company through a supplier, rather than the manufacturers own division in the UK. Hopefully you read the T&C’s so had an idea this could happen if you hit a problem.

I hope you get it sorted ASAP.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Hi @Steve Samuels ,

Do you have legal expenses insurance? This may be a stand alone policy or part of your main business insurance policy.

If you have this cover, give the legal providers a call - these legal expenses policies will help you understand your legal position and most policies will pay up to £100K of legal costs if you need to take legal action to get the matter resolved (Legal costs usually only covered if there is a greater than 50% chance of success).

 

[The Resolver]

Before you send the equipment back for examination, try and locate someone in the UK who knows about this type of equipment and can give independent advice on whether or not it has been manfactrured to a reasonable standard or has been misused.

 

[The Resolver]

...oh and keep a record of all costs/losses incurred to your business as a result of the product failure. THsi will include salaries paid to staff left to twiddle their thumbs.

Should you have a supportive report from the advisor then you cna raise a formal claim. You donlt have to burn money in court but invite the suppliers to negotiate settlement using Smartsettle Visual Blind BIdding AI tool- see vid on my site at http://www.seeyououtofcourt.com

 

[Gyumri]

I can't see the manufacturer's warranty extending to a 3rd party buyer such as yourself, but it will define the scope and would have to be read. The supplier is presumably just a reseller or could be an appointed distributor.

If you have been assured that the manufacturer's warranty applies that would be good but it would fairly useless if defects have to be reported within 7 days. They might not be apparent until a month later.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Can the suppler send a engineer to your premises to give it the once over, or did you just buy from a importer,

Are you able to fault find to a specific area that's not working properly, the more information you can give is helpful

 

[The Byre]

If we knew what the machine does (or in this case, was supposed to do!) it would help. As a manufacturer, the important thing is to get back into production. Arguing about legalities is a luxury activity best indulged in after the event. Right now, you need a functioning machine and not someone to blame - that comes later!

Almost every piece of equipment can be repaired, it's just a question of 'Is it worth it?' It is a pity that the supplier does not seem to have any form of concrete help other than sending this thing back to the US - time=money=not good.

As this experience has shown that you need a backup, it is probably inevitable that you are going to have to bite the bullet and buy a new and better machine and once this turkey is repaired, it can act as that backup.