What impact have mentors had on your business?

[ChrisGoodfellow]

As part of this month's focus on community, I'm interested in hearing about what impact mentors and coaches have had on your business. Particularly, if there have been any standout moments where they've helped out or caused you to change direction. I'll share a few to kick things off:

Selling without discounting: A few people have helped me develop our sales process over the last two years. I had no background in sales and made a few school boy errors in the beginning, including offering discounts before people asked for them and going into specifics quickly, rather than getting people to buy into the vision of a campaign.

Dealing with a difficult employee: Had to let an employee go for the first time last year. It's the hardest thing I've done since starting up and would have been way harder with a couple of close friends that could walk me through the steps and share their experiences.

 

[Mark T Jones]

When I set out in 1988 'mentors' weren't really a thing.

I did however have a couple (just didn't use the term) who were generous with advice & tough love.

One recurring quote I remember to this day was 'welcome to the real world' - an effective end to whining!

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

One recurring quote I remember to this day was 'welcome to the real world' - an effective end to whining!

So true! I do tend to get het up about things. Over time I've realised that if it was easy, everyone would do it.

I'm glad mentoring is more of a thing now though. It has to have a positive impact on people's experiences and the likelihood their businesses survive!

 

[Mark T Jones]

So true! I do tend to get het up about things. Over time I've realised that if it was easy, everyone would do it.

I'm glad mentoring is more of a thing now though. It has to have a positive impact on people's experiences and the likelihood their businesses survive!

I did a stint as a volunteer mentor for start ups.

I definitely see it as a good thing in a lot of cases.

The key challenge for me was drawing a line between being supportive and being abused as a free resource. One of my colleagues was brutal on this point. If he was on your side you effectively got a £3,000 per day consultant for nothing.

On the other hand, if you showed the slightest hint of being lazy or uncommitted he would drop you like a stone.

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

@Mark T Jones Yeah. It happens. I was a volunteer for the Prince's Trust until Covid hit. Some of the conversations were great, but they had a decent amount of no shows and there were people that were so early stage there was little you could do (although the Trust obviously does a lot of work). The best bet often seems that founders should go and build these relationships themselves without an intermediary. Finding people is a good test of their mettle and they're likely to take it more seriously if they've had to put the time in.

 

[estwig]

If I'd of listened to the mentor some Gov agency, I can't remember what agency, assigned to me back in the day.

I'd still be writing a business plan, whilst chasing pedantic civil servants, looking for obscure policy to comply with!

 

[Ozzy]

I feel there is a very distinct difference between a "coach" and a "mentor", and I have found having coaches extremely helpful once I got the right ones. They are my board of non-exec directors, they hold me to account and challenge me - sometimes very uncomfortably. I know the business wouldn't be where it is today without their input. I did try to hire a coach many years ago, that didn't work out well.

I don't think I can say I've been mentored though. I've had people I've taken inspiration from, or learned from, from a distant, but I've never actively worked with a mentor. However I have mentored quite a few young people over the years voluntarily, usually as part of a young persons support project though - not business related.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

I'd like to mention the entire cast of BBC Dragons Den

All series, all episodes, all dragons

• Know your numbers
• Know your market
• Know your product
• Research who you're pitching to
• Tell the truth
• Be reasonable
• Accept criticism
• Remain calm
• Be a clever negotiator
• Gain investors interest
• Be likeable
• Demonstrate profitability

 

[fisicx]

Don't think I've ever had a mentor. I've asked questions and read lots of guides but that not the same thing at all.

I didn't work for myself until later in life. Which meant I already know a lot about running a business from being an employee. That and having the capacity to quickly learn what and what not to do.

Recently I've begin to help a few startups and one thing I've noticed more an more is a reluctance to do their own research. They just want to be told what to do. And very short attention spans.

 

[Ozzy]

very short attention spans

I think this is a side effect of the world we now live in. The way that information is distributed is in very short bitesize chunks on platforms that enable a flick of the thumb and onto the next piece of information, so attention spans are short and I don't see that ever changing back.

Along with this is the commoditisation of being a business owner, an Entrepreneur, which is fed by the media. Which, ironically, I feel lends itself to a more urgent need for business mentors for the next generation for them to have any realistic chance of succeeding.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

When I first started E-commerce my mentor gave me great help, directing me on my business plan and cashflow projections, asking me to do far more research into marketing and competition, testing my cashflow under different conditions and so on. The mentor was from a free business start-up company, mainly filled with either old small business ex owners or Bank Managers on secondment from the big four banks. Gave about three months of one day a week assistance and offer of more if required. Learnt so much in a short term

 

[SillyBill]

We kept on a retired owner of our business (who was very successful with it and other businesses) for many years in a rolling consultancy role; oftentimes it was as little as seeing each other 2-3 times a year. But for a reasonable retainer salary what we got in return was a highly experienced, highly knowledgeable person who knew the industry and business inside out. He'd only be required to ask the right questions and provide the odd bit of sage advice and direction and that was it. And it worked very well. I'd not personally employ a business coach unless they could demonstrably show they have run a business the same size or larger than mine or made more out of business than I had (and very few can by the looks of it). I'd want someone with a "been there done it t-shirt" and a track record of success with impressive profits. If I look them up on Companies House and they have a string of liquidated micro businesses before becoming a business coach then I'd question the business acumen of the person that is supposedly teaching me how to make money. Failure itself doesn't put me off as we've all had them and a lot to learn from them but some seem to jump into it IMO after failing to make a decent profit in their own more regular businesses. Which seems odd to me.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Is YouTube todays modern Mentor or at least todays skills teacher

 

[Mark T Jones]

We kept on a retired owner of our business (who was very successful with it and other businesses) for many years in a rolling consultancy role; oftentimes it was as little as seeing each other 2-3 times a year. But for a reasonable retainer salary what we got in return was a highly experienced, highly knowledgeable person who knew the industry and business inside out. He'd only be required to ask the right questions and provide the odd bit of sage advice and direction and that was it. And it worked very well. I'd not personally employ a business coach unless they could demonstrably show they have run a business the same size or larger than mine or made more out of business than I had (and very few can by the looks of it). I'd want someone with a "been there done it t-shirt" and a track record of success with impressive profits. If I look them up on Companies House and they have a string of liquidated micro businesses before becoming a business coach then I'd question the business acumen of the person that is supposedly teaching me how to make money. Failure itself doesn't put me off as we've all had them and a lot to learn from them but some seem to jump into it IMO after failing to make a decent profit in their own more regular businesses. Which seems odd to me.

I think there is a lot of confusion around what a mentor is/does.

When I was trained (would you like to see my certificate?), it was impressed that the role of a mentor was absolutely not to dish out business advice; still less to grow their business for them; but to offer signposts, to encourage them to set themselves goals & targets (and stick to them); whilst guiding them away from some of the sillier & more common mistakes.

Being Government-backed, it was also quite a lot about complaince.

As has been mentioned, the biggest single challenge with young start-ups is steering them away from the desire for quick/easy answers and towards doing actual research.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Is YouTube todays modern Mentor or at least todays skills teacher

Social media - a great source of information for the wise.

And a minefield of disinformation and total b@ll@x for the uninitiated.

 

[Ozzy]

I think there is a lot of confusion around what a mentor is/does.

When I was trained (would you like to see my certificate?), it was impressed that the role of a mentor was absolutely not to dish out business advice; still less to grow their business for them; but to offer signposts, to encourage them to set themselves goals & targets (and stick to them); whilst guiding them away from some of the sillier & more common mistakes.

This is why I differentiated between Coach and Mentor.
In my world a Mentor has the answers and teaches from experience, whereas a Coach helped the person find their own answers by asking the pertinent questions. Nonetheless, in both cases neither the Coach or the Mentor is responsible for any of the "work"

 

[Mark T Jones]

This is why I differentiated between Coach and Mentor.
In my world a Mentor has the answers and teaches from experience, whereas a Coach helped the person find their own answers by asking the pertinent questions. Nonetheless, in both cases neither the Coach or the Mentor is responsible for any of the "work"

Yes - perhaps a case of titles confusing rather than clarifying.

Ultimately, like any business decision, it's important to know what you, the client aim to achieve and to make that clear.

Most requests revolve around the muddy notion of 'helping to build my business', which could be anything from a pointer to the guides on here to a full time job as MD.

 

[Ozzy]

Most requests revolve around the muddy notion of 'helping to build my business', which could be anything from a pointer to the guides on here to a full time job as MD.

This is why I feel that Coaching is so great as it helps the individual identify what they are actually want/need, fully appreciative that my use of the word Coach meets your use of Mentor so we're basically agreeing the same thing ?

 

[japancool]

I went looking for a mentor. The Yorkshire Powerhouse website supposedly can provide them, but all I found there were some pretty basic website articles.

So much for the Yorkshire "Powerhouse"...

 

[Mark T Jones]

This is why I feel that Coaching is so great as it helps the individual identify what they are actually want/need, fully appreciative that my use of the word Coach meets your use of Mentor so we're basically agreeing the same thing ?

Yip - any disagreement is purely semantic.

 

[Ozzy]

I went looking for a mentor.

Did you have any conversations with your local Growth Hub? I cannot vouch for if they are right for you, but they are meant to provide support like this.

Growing a business in York & North Yorkshire | Y&NY Growth Hub

Growing a business is an exciting stage in your business journey. However, it can also be intimidating and it is important to evaluate, plan and set goals.

www.ynygrowthhub.com

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

All series, all episodes, all dragons

This is a great list. I feel an article coming on... ?

Recently I've begin to help a few startups and one thing I've noticed more an more is a reluctance to do their own research. They just want to be told what to do. And very short attention spans.

That happens a lot. People hesitate to get out there and talk to potential customers or try to sell them something. Part of the problem is confidence. It definitely seems to happen more with people that haven't had much of a career before starting up. I also think there are a lot of people, myself included, who can hesitate to show our "big idea" to the world.

We kept on a retired owner of our business (who was very successful with it and other businesses) for many years in a rolling consultancy role

I love this approach. Also agree that mentors have to have been there and done the thing they're talking about. I'm always wary of people whose only business has been coaching people to run businesses.

 

[Ozzy]

I love this approach. Also agree that mentors have to have been there and done the thing they're talking about.

I completely agree with this personally, and I couldn't work with a coach/mentor personally who hasn't got a track record I could be inspired by. If they haven't done it themselves how can they teach me anything.
Then again, and you know me as we work together, I love to play Devil's Advocate...irrespective of my personal views...

I'm always wary of people whose only business has been coaching people to run businesses.

Coaching is a skill in itself, such as a good sports coach to an Olympian doesn't have to have won gold in a previous olympic competition to coach a champion to gold. If they have the right skills to coach, and there is the respect and accountability, then surely a coach can coach someone to achieving their goals and aspirations?

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

Coaching is a skill in itself, such as a good sports coach to an Olympian doesn't have to have won gold in a previous olympic competition to coach a champion to gold.

Good point. I had a grant and paid for three months of coaching (and by that I mean the questioning approach). It was great and really well timed; we were rebranding and thinking about the future. I just felt like for me it had a limited run. I really needed help going through company accounts and getting into the weeds of the business. I suppose, like all of this stuff, it's very much about what you're looking for.

 

[fisicx]

I love this approach. Also agree that mentors have to have been there and done the thing they're talking about. I'm always wary of people whose only business has been coaching people to run businesses.

Doesn't always work. I worked with a bloke who has been in the company for years and was seen as the font of all knowledge. A bit of digging however revealed they were hopelessly out of date and took all sort of shortcuts to get the job done. He used to quote company policies and procedures that either no longer existed or had been updated mutiple times. He was just very lucky nothing had gone wrong.

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

Doesn't always work.

You need to do the work upfront to get it right, but the "doesn't always work" point could be levelled at any person in any organisation doing any role and I'm not really sure what it adds.

 

[fisicx]

You need to do the work upfront to get it right, but the "doesn't always work" point could be levelled at any person in any organisation doing any role and I'm not really sure what it adds.

Agreed. My point was that finding someone who has lots of experience in an industry or role doesn't mean they are any good. You might not find out until too late. I worked on a project that employed an expert consultant. Everyone thought he was brilliant. It was only after user testing began it was realised he wasn't. He came highly recommended with endorsements from all sorts of people.

 

[japancool]

Did you have any conversations with your local Growth Hub? I cannot vouch for if they are right for you, but they are meant to provide support like this.

Growing a business in York & North Yorkshire | Y&NY Growth Hub

Growing a business is an exciting stage in your business journey. However, it can also be intimidating and it is important to evaluate, plan and set goals.

www.ynygrowthhub.com

Thanks @Ozzy. Unfortunately, that one's for North Yorkshire rather than West Yorkshire. I had a look for the West Yorkshire one, but either I'm looking in the wrong place or they're about as useful as a chocolate teapot - when I clicked to see what support was available in Leeds, I got redirected to the council website with coronavirus statistics.

And I'd say that's a problem with most of these sites - they don't make it easy to find what you need.

I think that's called government policy.

 

[The Byre]

what impact mentors and coaches have had on your business?

None.

Next question!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Agreed. My point was that finding someone who has lots of experience in an industry or role doesn't mean they are any good. You might not find out until too late. I worked on a project that employed an expert consultant. Everyone thought he was brilliant. It was only after user testing began it was realised he wasn't. He came highly recommended with endorsements from all sorts of people.

There is a massive difference between a Consultant (where you are buying expertise) and a mentor who mainly offers a number of directions you could take or advise you on weak points in your plans that could be improved to make life easier, they are not there to tell you what to do but what options you may like to consider

 

[fisicx]

There is a massive difference between a Consultant (where you are buying expertise) and a mentor who mainly offers a number of directions you could take or advise you on weak points in your plans that could be improved to make life easier, they are not there to tell you what to do but what options you may like to consider

Yes, but that mentor could be just as useless as the consultant. There were a number of complaints some years back when government funded mentors were not vetted and small businesses ended up getting bad advice. Experience and expertise are not the same thing.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

Most of my 'mentors' I've never actually met

Generic advice is often the most useful in business

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

Didn’t have a mentor as such but had a lot of help from the small business department of our local authority.

Group meetings and a day of 1 to 1 with a dedicated trainer who really knew his stuff and pointed out a lot of simple inexpensive things we could do to improve the business.

 

[RayanW]

Most of the mentors are theory giants and to practical expertise. Most of them talks with you with phrases from books or internet so actually you won't have any good advise from them

 

[fisicx]

If you removed the word ‘mentor’ from the title and just referred to ‘access to expert advice and information’ answers may well change.

If I hadn’t had really good financial help I’d be paying a lot more tax than I do. They weren’t a mentor, just someone willing to help out in exchange for me fixing their website.

 

[Ozzy]

If you removed the word ‘mentor’ from the title and just referred to ‘access to expert advice and information’ answers may well change.

Agreed but expert business advice isn't mentoring. The difference is, for example, the difference between getting a good accountant to sort your financial management (a very specific set of skills) verses having someone who built up a multi-million pound business in your industry and sold out. Going out for lunch with that person once a month for them to guide you on achieving the same thing. That's not specific advice on a specific area of your business but a higher level, strategic mentoring.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

Agreed but expert business advice isn't mentoring. The difference is, for example, the difference between getting a good accountant to sort your financial management (a very specific set of skills) verses having someone who built up a multi-million pound business in your industry and sold out. Going out for lunch with that person once a month for them to guide you on achieving the same thing. That's not specific advice on a specific area of your business but a higher level, strategic mentoring.

Can an AI bot be a business mentor in your opinion? @Ozzy

 

[Ozzy]

Can an AI bot be a business mentor in your opinion? @Ozzy

Not at the current level of AI evolution, as it lacks true empathy and relatability. Maybe in a 100 years who knows..

 

[fisicx]

Not at the current level of AI evolution, as it lacks true empathy and relatability. Maybe in a 100 years who knows..

After talking to someone who knows we aren’t even close to AI. What we have is advanced machine learning. It’s very clever but it’s not AI. That’s just a marketing buzzword.

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

I almost feel bad, bringing this back to a serious discussion, but we've written a guide to finding and working with mentors based on this thread if you're interested

A complete guide to finding and working with business mentors

Find out how mentors can benefit your business, where you can find one and how to approach them.

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

On the topic of machine learning/AI, I thoroughly recommend Garry Kasparov's Deep Thinking and Netflix documentary AlphaGo. Between them, they chart the journey from brute force to machine learning and point to what narrow AI looks like in a really entertaining way.