What do I do now?? Anyone, please help

[niknsi]

I had a small coffee shop. The landlord decided to sell. The new owners know nothing about the deposit we gave them although I have the original rent deposit deed. I’ve contacted the solicitor that originally wrote the deed and have told me that as this was over a decade ago and with no further instructions, they can’t help. This woman has taken our deposit. We no longer have our coffee shop as the new owners terminated our lease early. I’ve contacted them about our deposit but nothing is done. All they keep saying is they’ll try and contact the woman, but other than that, they never get back to me. I don’t know where to turn to next. Any advise would be so helpful. I’m not sure if this woman was registered under a scheme. I have no info about this woman.

 

[Newchodge]

I had a small coffee shop. The landlord decided to sell. The new owners know nothing about the deposit we gave them although I have the original rent deposit deed. I’ve contacted the solicitor that originally wrote the deed and have told me that as this was over a decade ago and with no further instructions, they can’t help. This woman has taken our deposit. We no longer have our coffee shop as the new owners terminated our lease early. I’ve contacted them about our deposit but nothing is done. All they keep saying is they’ll try and contact the woman, but other than that, they never get back to me. I don’t know where to turn to next. Any advise would be so helpful. I’m not sure if this woman was registered under a scheme. I have no info about this woman.

Do you not have the name and address of your ex-landlord? Isn't it on the old lease?

 

[niknsi]

Do you not have the name and address of your ex-landlord? Isn't it on the old lease?

It was a partnership of three people. One of the men died and the property was transferred to the man’s wife. She became responsible. Then a car crashed into the shop. Although the building was repaired, the roof never was and so the property leaked badly. The woman said she could afford to repair it and so sold the property. As a result we lost our business. We have been trying ever since to get our deposit back. The lease was never updated. The solicitor who wrote the leases and rent deposit deeds say they can’t help.

 

[niknsi]

Do you not have the name and address of your ex-landlord? Isn't it on the old lease?

Also, everything was managed by agents, I think they changed agents about four times and no one will give me her details as they are personal details.

 

[Newchodge]

Also, everything was managed by agents, I think they changed agents about four times and no one will give me her details as they are personal details.

Can anyone on here recommend a good debt collection agency?

 

[niknsi]

Can anyone on here recommend a good debt collection agency?

I will look into this. Thank you for replying.

 

[fisicx]

Go find another solicitor. The deposit deed is still valid, your current solicitors just don’t want to deal with. Same as the early termination of the lease. They can only do so is the lease has such a condition.

Your Landlord has clearly obfuscated their details in order to not have to payback your deposit. It should have been part of the sale of the property.

So get a new solicitor and take legal action.

 

[Newchodge]

Go find another solicitor. The deposit deed is still valid, your current solicitors just don’t want to deal with. Same as the early termination of the lease. They can only do so is the lease has such a condition.

Your Landlord has clearly obfuscated their details in order to not have to payback your deposit. It should have been part of the sale of the property.

So get a new solicitor and take legal action.

Ii expect the old solicitor may have been prepared to do something, but they would expect payment. A good debt collector should be able to trace the original landlord.

 

[kulture]

There is a lot to unfold here. Much seems wrong. I certainly would recommend seeing a new commercial solicitor and get them to go through your lease and deposit deed. A decent lease would have included insurance details, clauses dealing with loss of use due to incidents like cars ramming the building. Liability on the landlord to repair/restore etc etc.

There may well be some clause allowing the lease to be terminated if the building is damaged for too long, but who knows if it was correctly done. Is there an option to sue the car driver or their insurance for loss of business. Etc etc. the loss of deposit is potentially the least complex thing here. I would have thought that the deposit liability remains with the landlord, and if one owner sells to another then the deposit liability moves with the asset. Again this should have been in the lease. It may well be that your original solicitor is reluctant to deal with this as there was a flaw in the lease and they have been negligent.

So get a new commercial solicitor and go through this whole horrible mess and get them to recommend a solution.

It is far to early to suggest a debt collector as it is far from clear what is owed and by whom.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

How much was the deposit?

 

[niknsi]

How much was the deposit?

A total of £2,416.66 was taken. We had already spent £10,000 on solicitors fees because when the building works were being done, the builders never protected our equipment and almost £20,000 worth of damage was done. The new owners also threatened to bill us £100,000 for the repairs to the roof unless we walk away and forget about any claims. Our solicitor advised us that it would probably be best. We have been so badly wronged but the least I will do is give up on our deposit!! I have gone through 3 years of worry. Lost my business, lost all my savings but I will find out who took our deposit. Thank you everyone for your advice here. It really is appreciated a lot.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

, the builders never protected our equipment and almost £20,000 worth of damage was done.

your insurance would have covered that!

The new owners also threatened to bill us £100,000 for the repairs to the roof

Did you damage the roof?
Did you instruct the builders?

 

[niknsi]

your insurance would have covered that!


Did you damage the roof?
Did you instruct the builders?

No, we didn’t damage the roof. The was above the flat that is above our shop. The flat is nothing to do with us although the previous tenant up there did complain about the roof. The insurance company said that we were not covered. The main problem was that we were on a full repairing lease and even though it mentions that we are responsible for the ceiling joists in the kitchen, the lease wasn’t clear. We had already spent £5000 for a barrister to look at our problem but he said that we need to prove it in a court of law and because the car crashed into the shop in 2012 and the roof has now been fixed there is no proof and to take it further would have cost thousands. So we left it. We have absolutely no money left. But we are trying to get our deposit back. I’ve been in touch with all the schemes out there and it appears that our deposit was never protected. So much went wrong for us and all we did was run a little coffee shop, we looked after the property really well and all it has done is left us with nothing, just debt. The new owner is a bully too and is known for not giving deposits back so if he is responsible he will get nasty. The whole thing is so complicated and such a mess but unfortunately our last solicitor said that yes you have been wronged but it’s best to walk away.

 

[IanSuth]

I am guessing the reason you are here is because any further legal advice is going to cost you more than the value of the deposit.

Why not do a small claims court action against your current landlord - if you can show (with a receipt) that you paid a deposit to a freeholder and the original contract makes it clear that it was a deposit that was due. Then as you were a sitting tenant i would guess (and it is this) that the liability for the deposit transferred to the new freeholder with you (the tenant) or at least you could argue it did.

A moneyclaim online thing will be cheap - you name the current landlord (by exact corporate name on your most recent lease) and see how they respond

 

[Gyumri]

I’ve been in touch with all the schemes out there and it appears that our deposit was never protected.

That's because you're not renting a residential property where the rent deposit scheme would apply- look carefully at the wording of the rent deposit deed that you signed and that should indicate whether the current freeholder is liable to repay. Assume that he is and write a seven day letter demanding the return of the deposit or his reason for not returning it.

Then if applicable do as @IanSuth has suggested, as a small claim can be filed from the comfort of your armchair.

I never knew that selling coffee could be so fraught with complications.

 

[Elliot Green]

Tremark Associates might be an option for debt collection purposes. There are plenty of reasonable debt collectors. The key thing is to read the contract carefully and insist they work on the recoveries basis without personal liability to you and with you having termination rights if the debt is not collected within say 3 months for example.

 

[Gyumri]

Tremark Associates might be an option for debt collection purposes. There are plenty of reasonable debt collectors.

The OP isn't yet at that stage.

First he has to have evidence that he paid a deposit to A and that the liability to return it has passed to B. The rent deposit deed will resolve that issue.

Secondly he needs to seek B's response to his demand for the return of the deposit if B is liable to repay it.

Once that is clear he will know who to sue. When a judgment is obtained that would be the time to consider instructing bailiffs.

 

[Newchodge]

The OP isn't yet at that stage.

First he has to have evidence that he paid a deposit to A and that the liability to return it has passed to B. The rent deposit deed will resolve that issue.

Secondly he needs to seek B's response to his demand for the return of the deposit if B is liable to repay it.

Once that is clear he will know who to sue. When a judgment is obtained that would be the time to consider instructing bailiffs.

but you can instruct debt collectors without a judgment.

 

[Gyumri]

but you can instruct debt collectors without a judgment.

To do what? The OP must first read his rent deposit deed and then write to establish the current landlord's position.

It's not axiomatic that the deposit liability has passed to the current landlord, who says that they will try to contact the seller/previous landlord.

So the OP should first establish who is liable to repay the deposit and then issue a claim with money claims online from the comfort of his armchair.

 

[Newchodge]

To do what?

The clue is in the name debt collector.

 

[Gyumri]

The clue is in the name debt collector.

Wow! I never spotted that. The correct procedure is to first establish who owes the debt and then issue a claim and enforce the judgment by using a court bailiff, otherwise how does a debt collector know if there is anything to collect or from whom?

Banging on doors to collect alleged debts isn't the correct way to proceed.

 

[Newchodge]

Wow! I never spotted that. The correct procedure is to first establish who owes the debt and then issue a claim and enforce the judgment by using a court bailiff otherwise how does a debt collector know if there is anything to collect?

If you were to be right debt collectors would not exist.

 

[Gyumri]

If you were to be right debt collectors would not exist.

If you say so.

Bailiffs & Debt Collectors. The Difference? StepChange

 

[niknsi]

That's because you're not renting a residential property where the rent deposit scheme would apply- look carefully at the wording of the rent deposit deed that you signed and that should indicate whether the current freeholder is liable to repay. Assume that he is and write a seven day letter demanding the return of the deposit or his reason for not returning it.

Then if applicable do as @IanSuth has suggested, as a small claim can be filed from the comfort of your armchair.

I never knew that selling coffee could be so fraught with complications.

Thank you so much for your advice. I definitely think I will write a letter, I have done some research and found out where the original owner, (the ones that took our deposits initially) lives. And I have to say, she lives in a 2.5 million pound house !! Mind you, if she takes deposits and doesn't return them then she can probably afford it !!!

With regards to selling coffee........ neither did we but boy have we learnt the hard way !! Would highly NOT recommend it !!

 

[niknsi]

I am guessing the reason you are here is because any further legal advice is going to cost you more than the value of the deposit.

Why not do a small claims court action against your current landlord - if you can show (with a receipt) that you paid a deposit to a freeholder and the original contract makes it clear that it was a deposit that was due. Then as you were a sitting tenant i would guess (and it is this) that the liability for the deposit transferred to the new freeholder with you (the tenant) or at least you could argue it did.

A moneyclaim online thing will be cheap - you name the current landlord (by exact corporate name on your most recent lease) and see how they respond

Thank you for your reply. I think that this will end up being the route i go down.. And yes, legal advise has already cost us over £10k and all we got from that was, don't risk it !!

 

[niknsi]

your insurance would have covered that!


Did you damage the roof?
Did you instruct the builders?

Thank you for your message. Following your advise, I got in touch with our insurance broker at the time to see if we can claim. From what they have said so far, it looks unlikely. Our insurance didn't even cover our legal costs to date, it didn't cover the food that ruined in the freezers (because there was no power cut). Makes you wonder why we pay for insurance really !!