What Constitutes Harassment? What can I do about it?

[AllthingsWedding]

Please help us!

We have had to cease trading my wife's business and although we have sent Spongebob's ceased trading but lying dormant letter - the supplier who we owe £4k is still chasing us - they recently put a CCJ court action through which we didnt fight as we did owe them the money but as a ltd company - we have just noticed although they knew we were a ltd company had my wifes name T/A our company name without the Ltd on!

we have since told them that this is incorrect and they havent stopped sending emails saying they will send court bailiff to our house as they want their money and they apparently didnt know we were ltd company!??! we dealt with the supplier over 18 mths and have invoices with our ltd name on!

my wife sent them an email saying how upset she was and this was their reply!

"You will be hearing from our solicitor so glad you can afford one when you are letting down XXXX who have paid you monies forXXX they are now not going to get! for YOUR disgraceful antics!the business is a LTD Emails received from you do NOT state LIMITED on them, even the emails as sent to Michele when placing orders for XXXXXX !! company we have sought legal advice today and what you have done and continue to do is illegal!! Chasing for monies owed is not illegal but taking money from your customers by way of deposits for XXXXX you knew full well you could not supply them is. Nobody chooses to go out of business and you went out of your way to ensure we couldn't make any money to pay out what we owed!!! You have been paid a vast amount of money from us previously why had we intended not to pay for the last lot you sent out? You sent XXXXX out early because we were no longer able to stock you for XXXX who didn't want to pay for them as their XXXXXX for over a year! You demanded immediate payment which we were genuinely unable to pay. You then took it upon yourself to tarnish our name to every one of our suppliers which meant we could not have any credit and could no longer order, how on earth did you think that would help? How was we expected to pay you then? Businesses just don’t go under immediately it happens over a period of time as you well know and obviously did know it was coming.
We have done nothing wrong we have lost our livelihood and you have done nothing but harass us and keep on increasing what we supposedly owe!! Explain increasing what you owe?????
You are a disgrace and if it was down to me I wouldn't have stocked your overpriced substandard XXXXX - Slander right back at you – why did you keep ordering them then?? in the first place but unfortunately we inherited the ALREADY paid for IN FULL stock which we were free to do with what we wanted when we moved and could no longer stock you! Orders not paid for in full & we can supply proof to your solicitor when he contacts us. Also proof that you did not make us aware of your correct trading name.
Let's hope you find legal action against you as distressing and distroying as the pain and anguish you have caused me! And feel free to pop this Email into your folder to pass on because this one will join the others that we have given to our solicitor this morning! I'm sure your stockists and future potential stockists would like to know just what they are dealing with too but unlike you I'm not about to set myself up to be done for SLANDER and DEFAMATION of CHARACTER !!
We intend to go the whole way with this as you have made me ill in an already catastrophic situation!! We have lost everything and have nothing yet you continue to harrass so we will see you in court!! – hopefully in the very near future. I understand Bailiffs chasing a debt from another company called to your premises but are also now visiting your home address, therefore it seems that XXX t/a XXXX was obviously the impression you gave to other suppliers and not just ourselves. Our action will also be taken in the same manner."

We have lots more too - i sent the email with Spngebob's 2nd letter to creditors saying it was ltd company this was her reply:

Our legal team have advised that the letter you wrote is not worth the paper it is written on!

• You have not AT ANY POINT disputed the owed amount.
• You have, on several occasions, acknowledged the debt, both yourself & XXXX, in writing.

Therefore, we are within our rights to continue to pursue same.

We have never said the company doesn't owe the money but as a director or a ltd company surely that stop when my wife ceased trading?

Please help us as she is now saying we have handled stolen goods and she has contacted all my wife's other suppliers telling them about the debt and about whet they are doing!

Please help - what can i do? shall i send another letter including a personal information request or shall i go to the court and explain just realized its incorrectly filed?

Please help as my wife is very worried and harrassed by this woman to the point where we are getting an email EVERY DAY!:|

Thank you

 

[DavidAshdown]

Is this for goods or services supplied ?

 

[Newchodge]

Can I sugest that you apply to the court to have the judgment set aside, as it is in the wrong name. If it continues in your wife's personal name she will be personally liable for the CCJ.

 

[fisicx]

If you owe the supplier £4K then I can understand why they are chasing you. When you ceased trading did you make any attempt to pay the money you owe or did you just walk away leaving the supplier in the lurch?

Legally you may be in the clear but morally and ethically you are culpable.

 

[MikeJ]

They don't owe the supplier £4k. Their company did.

 

[Charlie B ACS]

OP: Do you have Copies of the unpaid invoices addressed to the Limited company.

If so then the easiest way to proceed is to apply for the judgement to be set aside, as your wife has no liability.

I would also send a copy of these invoices to the supplier & inform them that the liabilty rests with the Limited company.

 

[DavidAshdown]

There is no point getting into an email slanging match and there is no point your wife telling the supplier how upset she is. How upset do you think the supplier is ? I'm sure she's pretty upset because the truth of the matter is, you have had the suplies on trust and one assumes sold them on and profited from them, but the supplier has not had their money. So while she doesn't have a legal argument, she is right that you have taken her goods without paying for them, which constitutes.....?

The fact that your business has gone to pop is not her fault and whilst you can legally protect yourself with limited liabilities, you have to face the harsh reality that the supplier is not out of order getting upset and pestering for her money.

Having said all that, the supplier still has to act in a professional manner and cannot resort to underhand tactics.

You need to double check all the paperwork and make sure that the contract was with the limited company via invoices and communication so that the supplier was under no illusion who she was supplying.

Then as said above, apply to the court to have the judgement set aside. Are you sure it is a judgement and not still at summons stage ?

Lastly, with regard defamation and slander, if you have controlled a company which has ceased trading and not been able to pay its suppliers, (although not uncommon and possibly maybe not even your own direct fault), I think it would be a weak case to argue. It's a bit rich really to get upset about it really in my view.

 

[Walkol]

Please help us!

We have had to cease trading my wife's business and although we have sent Spongebob's ceased trading but lying dormant letter - the supplier who we owe £4k is still chasing us - they recently put a CCJ court action through which we didnt fight as we did owe them the money but as a ltd company - we have just noticed although they knew we were a ltd company had my wifes name T/A our company name without the Ltd on!

we have since told them that this is incorrect and they havent stopped sending emails saying they will send court bailiff to our house as they want their money and they apparently didnt know we were ltd company!??! we dealt with the supplier over 18 mths and have invoices with our ltd name on!

my wife sent them an email saying how upset she was and this was their reply!

"You will be hearing from our solicitor so glad you can afford one when you are letting down XXXX who have paid you monies forXXX they are now not going to get! for YOUR disgraceful antics!the business is a LTD Emails received from you do NOT state LIMITED on them, even the emails as sent to Michele when placing orders for XXXXXX !! company we have sought legal advice today and what you have done and continue to do is illegal!! Chasing for monies owed is not illegal but taking money from your customers by way of deposits for XXXXX you knew full well you could not supply them is. Nobody chooses to go out of business and you went out of your way to ensure we couldn't make any money to pay out what we owed!!! You have been paid a vast amount of money from us previously why had we intended not to pay for the last lot you sent out? You sent XXXXX out early because we were no longer able to stock you for XXXX who didn't want to pay for them as their XXXXXX for over a year! You demanded immediate payment which we were genuinely unable to pay. You then took it upon yourself to tarnish our name to every one of our suppliers which meant we could not have any credit and could no longer order, how on earth did you think that would help? How was we expected to pay you then? Businesses just don’t go under immediately it happens over a period of time as you well know and obviously did know it was coming.
We have done nothing wrong we have lost our livelihood and you have done nothing but harass us and keep on increasing what we supposedly owe!! Explain increasing what you owe?????
You are a disgrace and if it was down to me I wouldn't have stocked your overpriced substandard XXXXX - Slander right back at you – why did you keep ordering them then?? in the first place but unfortunately we inherited the ALREADY paid for IN FULL stock which we were free to do with what we wanted when we moved and could no longer stock you! Orders not paid for in full & we can supply proof to your solicitor when he contacts us. Also proof that you did not make us aware of your correct trading name.
Let's hope you find legal action against you as distressing and distroying as the pain and anguish you have caused me! And feel free to pop this Email into your folder to pass on because this one will join the others that we have given to our solicitor this morning! I'm sure your stockists and future potential stockists would like to know just what they are dealing with too but unlike you I'm not about to set myself up to be done for SLANDER and DEFAMATION of CHARACTER !!
We intend to go the whole way with this as you have made me ill in an already catastrophic situation!! We have lost everything and have nothing yet you continue to harrass so we will see you in court!! – hopefully in the very near future. I understand Bailiffs chasing a debt from another company called to your premises but are also now visiting your home address, therefore it seems that XXX t/a XXXX was obviously the impression you gave to other suppliers and not just ourselves. Our action will also be taken in the same manner."

We have lots more too - i sent the email with Spngebob's 2nd letter to creditors saying it was ltd company this was her reply:

Our legal team have advised that the letter you wrote is not worth the paper it is written on!

• You have not AT ANY POINT disputed the owed amount.
• You have, on several occasions, acknowledged the debt, both yourself & XXXX, in writing.

Therefore, we are within our rights to continue to pursue same.

We have never said the company doesn't owe the money but as a director or a ltd company surely that stop when my wife ceased trading?

Please help us as she is now saying we have handled stolen goods and she has contacted all my wife's other suppliers telling them about the debt and about whet they are doing!

Please help - what can i do? shall i send another letter including a personal information request or shall i go to the court and explain just realized its incorrectly filed?

Please help as my wife is very worried and harrassed by this woman to the point where we are getting an email EVERY DAY!:|

Thank you

Why people send emails like that is beyond me. You're meant to be business people, not at school.

Send copy letters showing the ltd status, stating facts and not getting all you said I said nonsense like you have above.

Apply to get court judgement set aside.

While the customer is out of order here in some respects, so are you. Your company never upheld its part of the contract. They have the right to be pissed off here, not you. (note, not legally, but morally I mean)

 

[Charlie B ACS]

taken her goods without paying for them, which constitutes.....?

The fact that your business has gone to pop is not her fault and whilst you can legally protect yourself with limited liabilities, you have to face the harsh reality that the supplier is not out of order getting upset and pestering for her money.

There is a line between pestering, and harrasment. If it is clear that the Limited Co owes the money, and that it has ceased trading, chasing the director continually IMHO crosses that line.

I agree that the supplier is right to be cross, but bad debts are a cost of offering credit. I've been in his shoes a number of times and after you've done what you can you have to shrug, chunter to yourself & get on with it.

 

[DavidAshdown]

There is a line between pestering, and harrasment. If it is clear that the Limited Co owes the money, and that it has ceased trading, chasing the director continually IMHO crosses that line.

I agree that the supplier is right to be cross, but bad debts are a cost of offering credit. I've been in his shoes a number of times and after you've done what you can you have to shrug, chunter to yourself & get on with it.

Totally agree, which is why I went on to say that the supplier needs to act in a professional manner and cannot be underhand.

At the same time though, the supplier also needs to satisfy herself that this wasn't done deliberately because whilst most reasons for ceasing trading are genuine, some are not !

 

[Anonymouse72]

There is a line between pestering, and harrasment. If it is clear that the Limited Co owes the money, and that it has ceased trading, chasing the director continually IMHO crosses that line.

I agree that the supplier is right to be cross, but bad debts are a cost of offering credit. I've been in his shoes a number of times and after you've done what you can you have to shrug, chunter to yourself & get on with it.

agreed, but what can they do about it. even if the judgment gets set aside, this supplier sounds like she's on the 'edge' & i'm guessing it's unlikely that she'll just give up. would the police get involved?

 

[DavidAshdown]

agreed, but what can they do about it. even if the judgment gets set aside, this supplier sounds like she's on the 'edge' & i'm guessing it's unlikely that she'll just give up. would the police get involved?

If you mean the supplier, there is nothing they can do about it so long as the contract was with the limited company and as per a previous post, they just have to shrug their shoulders and get on with it.

The police could get involved if it was considered to be true harassement but what has to be remembered at the moment, is that the supplier;

i) supplied the goods in good faith.
ii) didn't get paid
iii) issued a summons which didn't get challenged
iv) got a judgement

On these grounds the supplier is perfectly entitled to ask the court to instruct bailiffs. At this point there is no harassement.

It is now up to the OP to defend their situation (which they should have done when the summons arrived) if they believe they personally do not owe the money. Emailing the supplier and making claims like 'I'm very upset' and 'you are slandering my name' are hardly conducive to good business practice and are a 'red rag to a bull'.

I don't understand why the OP has spent time emailing and instructing a solicitor but then ignored a county court summons. it seems crazy and is probably leading the sup[lier to think something is amiss here.

If the supplier threatens to send the bailiffs round, with a CCJ against the defendant that is hardly harassement. I haven't seen anything that says the supplier has stepped out of line so not sure why the police would even be interested unless there are direct personal threats.

 

[fisicx]

They don't owe the supplier £4k. Their company did.

Which is waht I meant.

What we don't know is if the ltd company was wound up with any assets. One assumes the goods were not sold which means they still belong to the supplier. If they were sold then the suplier has every right to ask where the money has gone.

The way I read it is that the OP ceased trading and never had any intention of paying off the creditors. It also looks like the OP may have been a limited company but took the orders as an individual.

 

[DavidAshdown]

Which is waht I meant.

What we don't know is if the ltd company was wound up with any assets. One assumes the goods were not sold which means they still belong to the supplier. If they were sold then the suplier has every right to ask where the money has gone.

The way I read it is that the OP ceased trading and never had any intention of paying off the creditors. It also looks like the OP may have been a limited company but took the orders as an individual.

In which case the OP could be liable. They need to clarify their position. Unfortunately with a lot of these threads, there is insufficient information in the original post to give a thorough reply.

OP: can you clarify these points so that we can advise you better ? Also, is your query centered around the harassement angle or are you trying to ascertain where you stand legally in this situation ?

 

[internetspaceships]

Bah- maybe if you learn to divorce personal feelings from business, your next venture may go better.

Having said that, there's really so little REAL information in the post so it's hard to offer any other constructive, fact based advice.

 

[DavidAshdown]

Would the OP care to comment ?

 

[Spongebob]

The OP has made a couple of schoolboy errors.

Firstly, his website (which I have seen) makes no mention whatsoever of it being a limited company - only the trading name is used. Even now, after a 'Ceased Trading' notice has been put up as the landing page, no mention is made of the limited company, simply that the shop and business has closed, together with a rather pointless and nausea inducing sob-story about how upset they are.

I'm sure that this is merely an oversight which should be rectified immediately, but it does give the impression to anyone looking at the website that the business was not incorporated. This would be a powerful weapon in the hands of a creditor.

Secondly, the OP should have challenged the county court summons issued in the name of his wife, on the grounds that there was no personal liability for a company debt. That he did nothing and judgement was given against his wife only encourages the creditor to take collection action. Remember, as things stand, the OP's wife is liable to pay the creditor. Only when the judgement has been set aside does her liabliliy lift.

I have been in receipt of more background information regarding this case than that posted on the forum, and can vouch for the OP and his wife being genuine. But for the silly mistakes outlined above it is likely that their immediate problems would now be nearing a close.

Can someone give the OP advice on having a court judgement set aside in these circumstances? It is outside my area of expertise.

 

[DavidAshdown]

Although setting a judgement aside possibly is the way to go, it is not a given that this is an automatic and acceptable method. The summons was issued and not defended and judgement was given. Courts do not take lightly to their work being ignored and for someone wishing to have their judgement set aside. There needs to be a good reason.

Often a good reason is that the defendant was not aware that the summons was originally issued but in this scenario the OP has admitted it was issued and they didn't deal with it. If the claimant is aware of this they can use this in court and accuse the defendant of disrespecting the courts actions, which will not go down well.

The defendant needs to come up with a very good reason why the summons was ignored. Stress of loosing the business may be a part excuse backed up by doctor visits and/or medication but by just setting the judgement aside because it appears you couldn't be bothered with dealing with it at the time won't go down well.

If it then transpires that the claimant had every right to issue the summons against the OP's wife instead of the ltd company, they will be on very sticky grounds.

Sorry to appear negative but it does not seem that this is a simple case of a summons issued incorrectly against the wrong party.

Judges are very savvy people, and make most decisions based on 'fair and reasonable' grounds and if the claimant can show that she believed she was dealing with a sole trader then the OP's wife could be in a very weak position.

 

[internetspaceships]

The OP has made a couple of schoolboy errors.

Firstly, his website (which I have seen) makes no mention whatsoever of it being a limited company - only the trading name is used. Even now, after a 'Ceased Trading' notice has been put up as the landing page, no mention is made of the limited company, simply that the shop and business has closed, together with a rather pointless and nausea inducing sob-story about how upset they are.

I'm sure that this is merely an oversight which should be rectified immediately, but it does give the impression to anyone looking at the website that the business was not incorporated. This would be a powerful weapon in the hands of a creditor.

Secondly, the OP should have challenged the county court summons issued in the name of his wife, on the grounds that there was no personal liability for a company debt. That he did nothing and judgement was given against his wife only encourages the creditor to take collection action. Remember, as things stand, the OP's wife is liable to pay the creditor. Only when the judgement has been set aside does her liabliliy lift.

Hi Bob. I've got first hand experience of the ability of a supplier to go for someone personally in this situation. I think it's now going to involve a lot of hard work with no guaranteed result to get this judgement changed back to the company.

 

[DavidAshdown]

I have successfully set aside a couple of judgements for clients and could offer to help but would need to be convinced that it is justified. I would need a proper, not emotional, reason why the OP and his wife feel they warrant protection from creditors.

 

[AllthingsWedding]

Hi Everyone - thank you for your honest repsonse.

The reason we didnt defend the judgement was two fold:

Firstly my mistake i didn't realise what "T/A" stood for when i saw the court orders - i thought as everything had been done in the Ltd company name - this was normal and would still be directed at Ltd Company too.

Secondly and the main reason we didnt defend the order was that we were hoping to get finance to pay the suppliers and continue trading, this was sent to the suppliers but not the court - however i believe the suppliers forwarded our correspondence to the court stating this fact.

Basically we bought the company off the old owner and were told we would get half upfront and a further £15k in october - this was then withdrawn stating that he had invested in dubai and we had to get further funding elsewhere! - this by the by we approached evry man and his dog and explained the situation to the suppliers stating this - and the day we found out that we couldn't get the finance required we immediately ceased trading!

I am about to apply for the order to be set aside - any assistance will be greatly appreciated as these mistakes I have made i dont want my wife stressed any more - and yes we have both since been prescribed antidepressants and anti-anxiety prescriptions - this isnt an excuse and is unfortunately as we have taken the business very personally and put ourselves completely into the business only to have had the rug pulled from under us!

This isnt a sob story and appreciate everyones honest opinions - thank you

 

[DavidAshdown]

Hi Everyone - thank you for your honest repsonse.

The reason we didnt defend the judgement was two fold:

Firstly my mistake i didn't realise what "T/A" stood for when i saw the court orders - i thought as everything had been done in the Ltd company name - this was normal and would still be directed at Ltd Company too.

Secondly and the main reason we didnt defend the order was that we were hoping to get finance to pay the suppliers and continue trading, this was sent to the suppliers but not the court - however i believe the suppliers forwarded our correspondence to the court stating this fact.

Basically we bought the company off the old owner and were told we would get half upfront and a further £15k in october - this was then withdrawn stating that he had invested in dubai and we had to get further funding elsewhere! - this by the by we approached evry man and his dog and explained the situation to the suppliers stating this - and the day we found out that we couldn't get the finance required we immediately ceased trading!

I am about to apply for the order to be set aside - any assistance will be greatly appreciated as these mistakes I have made i dont want my wife stressed any more - and yes we have both since been prescribed antidepressants and anti-anxiety prescriptions - this isnt an excuse and is unfortunately as we have taken the business very personally and put ourselves completely into the business only to have had the rug pulled from under us!

This isnt a sob story and appreciate everyones honest opinions - thank you

Well that all seems much more plausible and acceptable than trying to find ways of suing the creditor for harassment !

I'm not clear on your comment regarding........ "Basically we bought the company off the old owner and were told we would get half upfront and a further £15k in october - this was then withdrawn"..

Why were you expecting money from the old owner, I'm confused, or am I misreading it ?!

Also, you state that you informed the suppliers of your position. Did you confirm this to this particular supplier before you took delivery of their stock ? Can you clarify the exact timings of the transaction and at what point you notified them ?

Thanks

 

[AllthingsWedding]

Well that all seems much more plausible and acceptable than trying to find ways of suing the creditor for harassment !

I'm not clear on your comment regarding........ "Basically we bought the company off the old owner and were told we would get half upfront and a further £15k in october - this was then withdrawn"..

Why were you expecting money from the old owner, I'm confused, or am I misreading it ?!

Also, you state that you informed the suppliers of your position. Did you confirm this to this particular supplier before you took delivery of their stock ? Can you clarify the exact timings of the transaction and at what point you notified them ?

Thanks

Hi Sorry no you didnt read incorrectly.

basically my wife worked at the business for the old owner and he loaned us the money to purchase the business off him as he had lost interest - he gave us 1/2 upfront in june which moved the premises and stocked the new shop and the further installment required in october - which is the one he didn't uphold!

no we didn't inform the suppliers at the time of taking their dresses as at this stage we didn't have any idea this would be the case - not until october when he dropped the bombshell! - we approached banks, investment companies, government finance and friends and family - exhausting every possible action - unsuccessfully - we didn't let the suppliers know until the end of october as we had hoped to have sorted it ourselves.

we finally found out on 22nd nov that we werent succesful ANYWHERE - in which case we took advice and ceased trading immediately - we had a good relationship with the landlord and he gave us to the end of the month to leave (even though we were 1 month behind and had signed 10 yr lease!) - we informed all the suppliers explaining we had to cease trading and asked them to start winding up process as we couldnt afford it !

 

[DavidAshdown]

Hi Sorry no you didnt read incorrectly.

basically my wife worked at the business for the old owner and he loaned us the money to purchase the business off him as he had lost interest - he gave us 1/2 upfront in june which moved the premises and stocked the new shop and the further installment required in october - which is the one he didn't uphold!

no we didn't inform the suppliers at the time of taking their dresses as at this stage we didn't have any idea this would be the case - not until october when he dropped the bombshell! - we approached banks, investment companies, government finance and friends and family - exhausting every possible action - unsuccessfully - we didn't let the suppliers know until the end of october as we had hoped to have sorted it ourselves.

we finally found out on 22nd nov that we werent succesful ANYWHERE - in which case we took advice and ceased trading immediately - we had a good relationship with the landlord and he gave us to the end of the month to leave (even though we were 1 month behind and had signed 10 yr lease!) - we informed all the suppliers explaining we had to cease trading and asked them to start winding up process as we couldnt afford it !

Did you not have the agreement in writing with the old owner ? Did you use a solicitor at all and what exactly did you buy ?

 

[AllthingsWedding]

Did you not have the agreement in writing with the old owner ? Did you use a solicitor at all and what exactly did you buy ?

No we didn't - I know in hindsight we wouldn't have agreed but we jumped at the opportunity and didn't think - this was our first and most fundamental mistake!

These are the reasons we are asking for the judgement to be set aside:

N244 Further Application Details

3. Continued:

I ask that the above court order is set aside and all and any enforcement action to be stopped or stayed until my application is heard.

The reason for this is as the original order was incorrectly action against "XXXXXX t/a XXXXXXXX" - whereas XXXXXXXX is a limited company registered with companies' house "XXXXXXXX Ltd No: XXXXXXXX. And at no time did XXXXXXXXXXX trade as XXXXXXXXXX

The reason I didn't defend the initial judgement was twofold:

Firstly my mistake I didn't realise what "T/A" stood for when I saw the court orders - I thought as everything had been done in the Ltd company name.

Secondly and the main reason we didn't defend the original order was that we didn't disagree with the amount owed but we were hoping to get funding to pay the supplier and continue trading, this was agreed with the supplier but not the court - however I believe the suppliers forwarded our correspondence to the court stating this fact. (I have attached a copy of these emails)

I agree this was not dealt with as it should be and apologise but at no point was there anything untoward.

 

[Kleenezeonlineshop]

Not a solution to your ongoing problem, I'm no legal expert, and pretend to be able to offer advice, except that morally you owe someone money for something you've had (I feel qualified to say this having been made redundant when I had £58,000 of unsecured debt, and a £28,000 HMRC bill due).
The morality is down to you to reconcile.
The problem with the persistent emails surely is simple?
Blacklist the email address, or the domain name. Failing that just close down your email address. Where's the problem? Getting stressed over emails isn't going to help you resolve the situation, just as your creditor sending daily emails isn't going to get them paid any quicker.
I know from my experiences, there was one creditor who I thought 'I will pay these back as soon as possible' and another that I thought 'f you, I'll give you a pound a week for the rest of my life' purely from the way they handled my debt situation.
The creditor who is being so unpleasant is probably worried about their own financial situation, especially if they are NOT a limited company.
You should try to be the bigger man, write to them, starting with an apology (it's not their fault that you have reneged on a debt - I'm not judging you just stating a fact) and explaining your intentions to repay the debt, if indeed this is your intention, if it's not your intention then you deserve all the stress you get - just me personal opinion you understand. Irrespective of your limited status, walking away from debts is just morally repugnant.

 

[DavidAshdown]

No we didn't - I know in hindsight we wouldn't have agreed but we jumped at the opportunity and didn't think - this was our first and most fundamental mistake!

These are the reasons we are asking for the judgement to be set aside:

N244 Further Application Details

3. Continued:

I ask that the above court order is set aside and all and any enforcement action to be stopped or stayed until my application is heard.

The reason for this is as the original order was incorrectly action against "XXXXXX t/a XXXXXXXX" - whereas XXXXXXXX is a limited company registered with companies' house "XXXXXXXX Ltd No: XXXXXXXX. And at no time did XXXXXXXXXXX trade as XXXXXXXXXX

The reason I didn't defend the initial judgement was twofold:

Firstly my mistake I didn't realise what "T/A" stood for when I saw the court orders - I thought as everything had been done in the Ltd company name.

Secondly and the main reason we didn't defend the original order was that we didn't disagree with the amount owed but we were hoping to get funding to pay the supplier and continue trading, this was agreed with the supplier but not the court - however I believe the suppliers forwarded our correspondence to the court stating this fact. (I have attached a copy of these emails)

I agree this was not dealt with as it should be and apologise but at no point was there anything untoward.

To be honest, my comment that this seemed more plausible does not mean that your reasons are excusable, just more understandable as to why they occurred, as opposed to your first post, which was in defence and came across as if you hadn't done anything wrong.

You will have gleamed from other posts, that there is not a lot of sympathy because whilst a limited company is there to protect people, it is not to be used fraudulently or negligently.

In your case I would believe that fraud was not your intent but unfortunately business is a serious thing and whilst no one is expected to be a business guru when they start out, it does seem some pretty fundamental issues have been missed here.

You could get sympathy from a judge, if he/she believes that there was no intent to defraud but conversely you could be highly criticised if he/she feels you have been foolhardy in your actions. Naivety is one thing, but being reckless is another and you will need to be mindful of these points if you get a chance to get in front of a judge.

I do not like your reasons for setting aside this judgement. To be in business and to quote that you did not know what "T/a" stood for is not good and could easily annoy the judge. If you receive a summons from a court and ignore it because you didn't know what a simple acronym meant is unlikely to go down very well. Ever heard of Google !!

Your second reason needs to be more succinct. If you believe the supplier agreed to a 'stay of execution', which is what I think you are saying, then just state that without going into the whys and wherefores.

I honestly think you are on sticky ground and without looking at all the papers I don't want to word this for you, but am happy to give comments on what you write if you want to try again. I think you really need to come up with a better excuse as to why you ignored something as important as a court summons, but I'm not going to put words in to your mouth.

Last but not least, what date was the judgement granted and how does having a judgement against you affect you? i.e. do you have other bad debts ?

 

[Steve Sellers]

OP the judgement is made in your name so legally they have the right to enforce it.

There are two options, you could gather your evidence send it to the creditor and state the limited company owes the money and you are inviting them to make an application to amend the judgement and substitute your name for that of the limited company (cc the court in).

Or you could apply to have the judgement set aside.

How long ago was judgement made, and why the delay in responding to the claim?

p.s. if you can show the debt is owed by the limited company you will be able to get it set aside. However the way you have handled it may well result in a costs order against you personally if the court or creditor are that way inclined. - substituting names would be a cheaper option in terms of court time and costs.

 

[AllthingsWedding]

OP the judgement is made in your name so legally they have the right to enforce it.

There are two options, you could gather your evidence send it to the creditor and state the limited company owes the money and you are inviting them to make an application to amend the judgement and substitute your name for that of the limited company (cc the court in).

Or you could apply to have the judgement set aside.

How long ago was judgement made, and why the delay in responding to the claim?

p.s. if you can show the debt is owed by the limited company you will be able to get it set aside. However the way you have handled it may well result in a costs order against you personally if the court or creditor are that way inclined. - substituting names would be a cheaper option in terms of court time and costs.

Thanks for your information - I suppose there arent any clauses / rights for us to force the creditor to substitute our name? After speaking to her she is happy she has done this and has contacted the other creditors past and present and told them to do the same!

Any advice will be greatly received! thanks

 

[Steve Sellers]

No you can make the application - which I suspect will cost but I honestly dont know. Telephone the MoJ and ask if there is a fee.

 

[eventdomain]

The police could get involved if it was considered to be true harassement

No could about it - they HAVE to investigate all accusations. IF it is harrassment, only one count is necessary to be given a Criminal Record which means a record is entered by the duty officer and placed on PNC.

The method is as follows:

• Initial investigation
• Crime recorded on police system (Police National Computer)
• Crime number issued

this is the last thing you want, if anyone committs a Criminal Act (eg: threatens anyone else and simply making a threat, which isn't carried out is enough to get a criminal record), the crime ref number, means an actual record exists which is permanent (and for life!) - and not 'spent' like many assume.

 

[SqueakyHinge]

Businesses go bust owing money all the time. The op isn't after a lecture on morals.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

Businesses go bust owing money all the time. The op isn't after a lecture on morals.

Well... the OP got one.

ScotInvest

 

[AllthingsWedding]

Businesses go bust owing money all the time. The op isn't after a lecture on morals.

Thanks for your support Squeaky however I have come on the forum for honest opinions and ... Ive had them positive and negative ones!

My wife absolutely had no intention of going bust or owing money to the suppliers - who over the years have had in excess of £20k business! - this is by the by and thank you all for your comments.

I have applied to the court for the judgments to be set-aside and I will be back in touch with any outcome!

After stating to the supplier who was harrasing my wife that i would contact the police she hasn't emailed or called again - so fingers crossed that's the last we will hear from her unless officially!

What does worry me is her contacting other suppliers and people within our sector who we have done business with effectively trying to tarnish my wife's (previously) good name! Does anyone know if it is worth asking for all the information the company has sent / received regarding my wife's company to see if what she has said? is it against the Data Protection Act what she has done or not?

Thanks again everyone

 

[ScottishInvestments]

No could about it - they HAVE to investigate all accusations. IF it is harrassment, only one count is necessary to be given a Criminal Record which means a record is entered by the duty officer and placed on PNC.

The method is as follows:

• Initial investigation
• Crime recorded on police system (Police National Computer)
• Crime number issued

this is the last thing you want, if anyone committs a Criminal Act (eg: threatens anyone else and simply making a threat, which isn't carried out is enough to get a criminal record), the crime ref number, means an actual record exists which is permanent (and for life!) - and not 'spent' like many assume.

Can easily be removed if not proven. Certainly the case in Scotland, maybe not in England.

ScotInvest

 

[uncle_rico]

I can understand why you are being chased if you owe someone 4k.

As previously mentioned you should not be getting into an email slanging match with the supplier or the credit agent. From now on I would suggest only acknowledging letters that are sent to your business address and that is it. They should not be contacting you at your home address period and so yes legally you can obtain a harassment order. To tell them you're upset/angry, stressed is making yourself look stupid, they dont care they just want the money.

Debt collectors are experts in using scare tactics to get their money from you, but the reality is you cannot pay what you do not have and that is what a court would rule. I would suggest letting this matter escalate to a debt collector and then obtain an administration order from the court, you can now walk into a county court and go to the office/clerical part and ask for an admin order form. You then fill out what you owe, who to and the court will then contact the debt collector on your behalf and negotiate a payment plan based on what you have. I currently pay £4 a week for a debt I had 6 years ago. It seems scary to use the court as an option but seriously they are very understanding and fair. When you arrange an admin order the deby collector or the business/individual you got yourself in deby with is not allowed to contact you. You pay the court, the court pays them

 

[DavidAshdown]

I can understand why you are being chased if you owe someone 4k.

As previously mentioned you should not be getting into an email slanging match with the supplier or the credit agent. From now on I would suggest only acknowledging letters that are sent to your business address and that is it. They should not be contacting you at your home address period and so yes legally you can obtain a harassment order. To tell them you're upset/angry, stressed is making yourself look stupid, they dont care they just want the money.

Debt collectors are experts in using scare tactics to get their money from you, but the reality is you cannot pay what you do not have and that is what a court would rule. I would suggest letting this matter escalate to a debt collector and then obtain an administration order from the court, you can now walk into a county court and go to the office/clerical part and ask for an admin order form. You then fill out what you owe, who to and the court will then contact the debt collector on your behalf and negotiate a payment plan based on what you have. I currently pay £4 a week for a debt I had 6 years ago. It seems scary to use the court as an option but seriously they are very understanding and fair. When you arrange an admin order the deby collector or the business/individual you got yourself in deby with is not allowed to contact you. You pay the court, the court pays them

This is all good advice .....in principle, but what hasn't been established (as far as i'm aware) is whether the debt is owed by the company or the OP personally.

That will have an affect as to which way the OP goes.