What chains will be gone by the end of 2012

Millions unemployed yes, but yet the number of millionaires is increasing. So to is spending in high end, expensive and luxury areas. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

Time to become Communist (or libertarian depending how you see it) and look after my two chickens in my 5 metre by 5 metre enclosure?

More like time for the prolitariat to open there eyes and stop being content with the crumbs.

One knows where the cake ends up.

Earl

 

[businessfunding]

But they owe twice as much as they have.?

Earl

i couldn't follow the link, but to make sense of the business you need to be looking at consolidated group figures, which shows them to be very liquid and solvent, even if you strip out intangibles, investments etc.

 

[Earlsweb]

Really interested to see Lush mentioned. I would be surprised if they did tbh. The manufacturing side of the business makes far too much £££ I'm sure!

 

[mayflower232]

Just got back from Pizza Hut. First time I have been in years. While the surroundings were pretty pleasant the quality of the food... dear lord. Everything looks and tastes processed. I don't understand how the MD of that company can happily eat the food they have on offer and feel as though their position in the future food industry is secured.

 

[MOIC]

Just got back from Pizza Hut. First time I have been in years. While the surroundings were pretty pleasant the quality of the food... dear lord. Everything looks and tastes processed. I don't understand how the MD of that company can happily eat the food they have on offer and feel as though their position in the future food industry is secured.

There is no room for businesses without good management or offering value for money products to be on the high street, or anywhere else.

It's just a question of time, before they fold, and rightly so.

 

[VictorVector]

Just got back from Pizza Hut. First time I have been in years. While the surroundings were pretty pleasant the quality of the food... dear lord. Everything looks and tastes processed. I don't understand how the MD of that company can happily eat the food they have on offer and feel as though their position in the future food industry is secured.

But people come back time after time. Pizza Hut, KFC, Maccy D's and all the rest can't have their businesses wrecked by the internet whereas almost anything retailed can be bought online and delivered rather than needing to go out and get. Often it's much cheaper and the goods can be selected and bought even in the middle of the night!!

The likes of HMV, Waterstones, and Game, (Whoops, they've gone already!), are going to have a very tough time 'cos Amazon is a much easier way to buy what they sell and is often much cheaper too. Without some heavy support from manufacturers in terms of pricing and special editions of products only available via bricks and mortar, an awful lot of retail brands are vulnerable.

The prognosis for a lot of so-so retail is a bit grim methinks.

 

[mhall]

Nice quote on the Beeb site this morning :

"But there are still thousands of 'zombie' companies which are stumbling on, as banks are reluctant to push all but the basket cases into insolvency."

Whilst anyone losing their job is heartbreaking, the fact that it would appear that banks are simply holding off the inevitable (to protect their own reports to shareholders I guess) is worrying. A growing part of me just wants to get all this stuff out of the way - There are so many companies surviving on massive overdrafts (i'm not talking about the small, £50 - £50k overdrafts here), perhaps we should just call them all in, bite the bullet and see what we have left to start again with.

 

[Talay]

Nice quote on the Beeb site this morning :

"But there are still thousands of 'zombie' companies which are stumbling on, as banks are reluctant to push all but the basket cases into insolvency."

Whilst anyone losing their job is heartbreaking, the fact that it would appear that banks are simply holding off the inevitable (to protect their own reports to shareholders I guess) is worrying. A growing part of me just wants to get all this stuff out of the way - There are so many companies surviving on massive overdrafts (i'm not talking about the small, £50 - £50k overdrafts here), perhaps we should just call them all in, bite the bullet and see what we have left to start again with.

Certainly I feel the poor quality of some companies' balance sheets is weighing heavily on the decision making process relative to companies looking to borrow money to invest in themselves.

At the moment, I am in the market for half a dozen vehicles. Now we may end up on lease but perhaps not as I won't write up personal guarantees and though we are very robust cash wise, financing through the bank would once have been an option. Now they are so scared of new business going the same way as poorly written up historic loans that they want a double belt and braces approach and then want to load you with huge fees and mark ups. I'm not trying to borrow the national debt here !

So we'll quite possibly just go cash and have done with it. That way everyone loses but I get what I need without dancing to someone else's tune.

 

[josor]

looks like Clinton Cards has gone or going now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18002413

 

[GoPD]

Just got back from Pizza Hut. First time I have been in years. While the surroundings were pretty pleasant the quality of the food... dear lord. Everything looks and tastes processed. I don't understand how the MD of that company can happily eat the food they have on offer and feel as though their position in the future food industry is secured.

I've always quite liked the food there but been put off by the surroundings and 'atmosphere.' That said I haven't been into one for a couple of years so maybe the food has changed as well.

 

[mhall]

looks like Clinton Cards has gone or going now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18002413

and I don't think WH Smith Retail will be far behind

 

[mhall]

Interesting that Barclays and RBS sold the Clinton debt to American Greetings - who, as well as being a major supplier to Clintons, also have Carlton Cards. Is this a quick way to get rid of a major competitor, even though they are also a retailer of your product? Close down all the expensive shops but be seen as a knight in shiny white armour when you save the best, rebrand as Carlton and make extra margin.

Or am I just being extra cynical this afternoon ?

 

[Ding Dang Doo]

Or am I just being extra cynical this afternoon ?

Nope.

I think I have just read the same report as yourself... My conclusions were similar...

Didn't realise that Clinton's emplyed over 8000 people though... I wonder how much some of their suppliers are into them for..? Carte Blanche must be a major supplier.. bet it's twitchy bottom time for a few others too.

Hope they manage to turn this around, or there will be yet another empty shop unit on most town high streets.

Pete

 

[mayflower232]

Breaking News on BBC

Have just seen that Clinton Cards has gone into administration.... I think us lot are able to predict the future! More to come.

 

[Esk247]

Clinton Cards: Out of date and out of time.

Just like old Woolworths. The shops are dreadful.

 

[MancunianCreative]

It's not predicting the future, but the rent alone on some city centre stores can get to half a million a year, add stock and staff to that and that's a lot of valentines cards.

 

[Esk247]

It's not predicting the future, but the rent alone on some city centre stores can get to half a million a year, add stock and staff to that and that's a lot of valentines cards.

Staff being the main issue. Those wages can be inconsistent, staff training, staff holidays, staff turnover etc. At least rent is negotiable or fixed for a set period. Wages are out of your control to some extent.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

It's not predicting the future, but the rent alone on some city centre stores can get to half a million a year, add stock and staff to that and that's a lot of valentines cards.

You're not wrong there - I had a tentative look round Newbury at the weekend - I still absolutely stand by my business model, but footfall where we are at the moment is just not enough to really provide us with a living and I'm sick of just breaking even. (We have 2 years before we can get out of our current lease, so I'm just playing with options).
There are several available retail units, some of them with reasonable rents which, given the massively better footfall, would be manageable even on our current takings - but the business rates quoted were upwards of £30,000 a year. That's unbelievable! There were other units with rents well in excess £100,000 pa - didn't even bother looking at the rates on those!

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Bit of an odd way to go though. Clintons had an agreed loan with two banks and had agreed certain waivers so they could carry on operating.

The banks sell this debt on to the main company that Clintons owed money to (American Greetings) without the waivers. So American Greetings, who could also be seen as a competitor, could force Clinton in to administration.

Seems like the Banks, Clintons and American Greetings could be working together on this deal. It means American Greeting can take over for next to nothing and dump all the unprofitable shops in the process.

As a result the banks get their loan paid back, American Greetings get Clintons for nothing and they can legally shed all their loss making stores.

 

[lesliedocherty]

Bit of an odd way to go though. Clintons had an agreed loan with two banks and had agreed certain waivers so they could carry on operating.

The banks sell this debt on to the main company that Clintons owed money to (American Greetings) without the waivers. So American Greetings, who could also be seen as a competitor, could force Clinton in to administration.

Seems like the Banks, Clintons and American Greetings could be working together on this deal. It means American Greeting can take over for next to nothing and dump all the unprofitable shops in the process.

As a result the banks get their loan paid back, American Greetings get Clintons for nothing and they can legally shed all their loss making stores.

i couldn't figure it out, as i didn't think what has happened did happen, but it seems to be the case, some shrewd business.

 

[Talay]

Clinton Cards: Out of date and out of time.

Just like old Woolworths. The shops are dreadful.

You drop in, forced out of necessity to buy a card now and you are thrown at the same old choice and then you see the price. If you look further into other merchandise it is mostly the same old tat and stuff you can get elsewhere for less. So even if you make a purchase, you make a mental note not to bother again and to plan in good time to buy better and cheaper next time.

Perhaps they have a niche market in airports, train stations etc. but they are a dinosaur on the high street and it looks as though the asteroid just landed.

 

[mhall]

I think the leases that will be available from Clintons would be a tempting offer for someone like Starbucks - good size stores in excellent locations and a simple refit for a high margin product. They could pick and choose their leases.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I was wrong earlier in the year when I said that Clinton's would survive a revamp.

Trying to figure out what American Greetings have spent £35 million on I can think of only one scenario. Clinton's were planning a revamp of their stores and stock lines. AG were their biggest supplier. AG's cards are perhaps what was wrong with Clinton's stock choice; over sentimental, corny and dated. AG didn't want to lose a big customer so they decided to buy their biggest UK outlet and have 100% control over buying policy. Last year Clinton's made a loss of £10.6 million which they were correcting. Suppose AG made a profit on their sales of cards to Clinton's of £11 million. That would turn a minus into a plus.

 

[mhall]

I was wrong earlier in the year when I said that Clinton's would survive a revamp.

Trying to figure out what American Greetings have spent £35 million on I can think of only one scenario. Clinton's were planning a revamp of their stores and stock lines. AG were their biggest supplier. AG's cards are perhaps what was wrong with Clinton's stock choice; over sentimental, corny and dated. AG didn't want to lose a big customer so they decided to buy their biggest UK outlet and have 100% control over buying policy. Last year Clinton's made a loss of £10.6 million which they were correcting. Suppose AG made a profit on their sales of cards to Clinton's of £11 million. That would turn a minus into a plus.

AG will dump all but the best performing shops, rebrand as "Carlton Cards" and claim to be the good guy saving a few hundred jobs.

 

[captaincloser]

when you look down any High street and know someone is going to perish very soon..then Clintons cards would be on most peoples list. it really is an emergency only port of call and rest home for the unimaginative and tired of our species.
Stuck in the 1970s they are a truly awful retailer and unless you are a fan of the pink frog fishing by a pond or the pink hamster playing a guitar...or the cheap and nasty helium balloon selection then your card buying will be satisfied by t'ínternet at one end and Paperchase and really good niche card retailers supplying first rate cards at less than Clintons currently charge for their pink cards.

Sorry for the staff but delighted if the name disappears off the high street, an appalling retailer.

 

[Photovision]

would it be bad taste to send them a "sorry to hear the news" text rather than a card?

 

[Talay]

OK, who's next ?

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

One of the DIY chains will have to go, and good riddance as well - the market is too saturated to support them all.

What is more relevant to me is which manufacurers or wholesalers will go. 4 of our suppliers have gone in the last 3 years, and this is very inconvenient, as some time has been invested in stocking their products and putting them on our website and when we've sold out they are no longer available. We still get lots of phone calls from people asking for Micromark products (mainly spare parts). We could sell huge nos. of them if they were available, but they are not anywhere in the world, and they went bust over 2 years ago now. This results in some people having bought fairly expensive products having to throw them away. We can supply alternatives for some products, but many are peculiar to them and we would have to invest a lot of money to replicate them, which is not ecomonic.

Barrie

 

[Rookery]

OK, who's next ?

I dont think Wickes will survive much longer.

 

[Zedlor]

To be honest I don't know how GAME and Gamestation are still open. They're both useless and they still haven't learned their lesson- overpriced games and accessories everywhere.

 

[lesliedocherty]

To be honest I don't know how GAME and Gamestation are still open. They're both useless and they still haven't learned their lesson- overpriced games and accessories everywhere.

Game went bust last month or so, they own gamestation aswell, they shed a load of stores and kept the best ones

 

[Talay]

I dont think Wickes will survive much longer.

Yeah, almost constant 15%/20%/25% off and that is on top of regular promotions. Yet some good deals and I find their stores to be better than some Homebase ones.

 

[Esk247]

I think wickes will survive as they are used by businesses and tradesmen where as homebase are geared purely towards your domestic customer, I could be wrong but only time will tell

Surely Homebase can't keep going. Have you seen their prices???

I don't normally go in as i know its expensive but had to go and get a door lock and handles, £39.99!!! sweet baby jesus in a puddle. I bought it from the local DIY shop instead for £19.95.

Have you seen their wood as well? They've set up a finance department just to deal with people trying to buy wood. You have to go through a credit check and all sorts then loan the money.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Wouldnt the DIY stores do well in a recession? Surely more people turn to DIY when money is short than hiring in the pro's?

Looks American Greetings may be on to a good thing and have lots of opportunities ahead of them (if they buy Clintons, dont forget its not a done deal yet). All the other card shops are reporting increased sales (even in the face of sites like MoonPig) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18020006. If AG bring the stores in line with these higher class shops then they could be on to a winner. Maybe they should even think about putting print machines in their shops to print personalised cards while you wait. A company as big as AG could do a lot with those shops.

On the Game front, we had two Game stores in Cardiff one fair sized one and one big store in a new shopping development. They closed the smaller and kept the larger store and they are now in the mad situation where they have to space their stock out to fill their shelves. Where as shelves used to be 5 or 6 games deep they are only one or two deep and complete shelf units in the middle of the store are now given over to gamer guides which fill shelves very nicely. Unless they act soon, it is going to repeat all over again

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

I went into Game in Basingstoke to buy a game (Sky Rim for XBox) for the OH's birthday - walked in, lots of them all lined up on the top 10 sellers list, picked up a box, went to counter ...... only to be told they didn't actually have it in stock and would have to order it in. I needed it then, not the next day - walked over to HMV and bought it there instead, no difference to advertised price but I hate HMV is it's always so busy and you have to queue which I don't like doing in shops like that as there is nothing in there I like to look at.
Perhaps Game are only keeping empty boxes in stock rather than the actual game discs - in which case they will soon be rumbled.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

The good thing to read from that Doodle is HMV is doing well.

I noticed when Game went in to administration, HMV almost doubled its second hand push over night. Its dropped a bit now they have been bought out but I expect when people start to realise that Game is just a shell HMV will make another move in the Game market.

BTW - Making people order games over the counter puts the business in an even worse position when it comes to battling the online retailers. You now have to make a trip to the store, pay a deposit and make a second trip several days longer. Or you could order it on Amazon and have it on your door mat the next day. If Game dont sort their act soon, there will be a repeat crisis in the company by Christmas (dont forget how important Christmas is to Game)

Add to that the fact the Games industry seems to have created its own mega recession. Reports today suggest that games sales (online and offline) is down by a massive 43% on this time last year (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18033328). When the financial crisis started the gaming companies started cancelling a lot of titles and even closing studios opting to stick with just the mega safe tripple A titles. The result is that there are not many games being released and sales are down by nearly a half and it will get worse over the summer which is a traditional slow release period anyway.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

I can see Homebase slowly vanishing rather than self imploding. The owners dont have a massive portfolio of property compared to the other big DIY sheds. So in theory they are not hurting as much as them.

For sometime before the recession started to hit I felt that Homebase wasnt really putting in much effort and was perhaps pulling back from the market.

 

[Esk247]

Erm that was kind of my point, that if one had to go it would not be wickes

I know it was your point, i was agreeing, even though it looked like i was disagreeing..so..yeah. NER!!!

 

[Laurenpears]

I actually think wikes are doing a good job of re-branding themselves.... more to the trade than domestic customers i think! But still they suffered a while back and came back with a new ad campaign which as far as i can see is working well and the car parks always full.
Homebase is terrrible, not to mention that its next door to our Wikes!
Car park over their side is always empty and the prices i agree are just through the roof! I wouldnt pay them!

 

[mhall]

I think Homebase missed a major trick just before the recesson hit. B & Q have always struggled with deliveries but Homebase could have done it in a heartbeat by using their sister company Argos who already had the infrastructure to deliver and thereby stealing a massive march on B&Q and Wickes. I'm not talking buidling and dirty deliveries, although that would have been easy. The recession hit and Homebase retreated instead of being bold and attacking. B & Q have enough in the coffers to ride a recession out but Homebase don't. I think it's too late for them now.