What are the biggest problems with SEO companies?

[LSG Creative]

Hey all,

I founded my marketing agency 3 years ago. I want to run a little market research and ask you all what problems you have faced with SEO agencies in the past? Would really appreciate your feedback!

Thanks for the time.

 

[The Byre]

A complete and utter failure to deliver!

 

[LSG Creative]

I expected that answer! Interesting question time, what is "deliver"

Deliver leads or deliver ranking?

 

[fisicx]

Both.

Most SEO companies regard SEO as a stand alone activity. It's not. It's just a small part of the whole marketing thing. Instead, most SEO companies focus on link building which as ane fule kno is becoming less and less relevant in the majority of cases.

 

[LSG Creative]

I found that most "agencies" just outsource straight to India and assume that SEO hasnt changed in the last 4 years! Thanks Fisicx

 

[fisicx]

A lot of them don't even outsource, they just run a submission script and report back each month that they've created X links.

The clever ones no longer offer SEO (because it's a tainted activity), they now focus on marketing and conversions. Some don't even bother to get Google ranking, there are far more lucrative channels for some business niches.

 

[LSG Creative]

Thanks for your input - happy for you to tear our campaign builder apart on our homepage - <removed> - any feedback is welcome. Like what you said we try to focus on multi-channel marketing. By doing this right then you earn a more authorative SEO ranking

 

[fisicx]

Website reviews are only for full members. But I took a look and gave up waiting. 10 seconds load time, 3.1Mb homepage and 135 server requests! And I get a broken padlock suggesting bits of the site aren't secure. People do check things a lot more these days and would expect your site to score well using the various online tools.

 

[LSG Creative]

Indeed! Our checks are showing a high page speed score and it being fully secure. However these are the joys of a redesign being rushed through!

 

[fisicx]

https://tools.pingdom.com/#!/cMwYdw/https://www.lsgcreative.co.uk/

https://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.lsgcreative.co.uk/jjedPuGX

If you can get the number of requests down that would make a big difference. Why so many scripts, styles and external services? It took 4 seconds to just access fontawesome (which you don't even need)

 

[LSG Creative]

Thanks for the pointers, our web developers are taking a closer look at the scripts now!

 

[fisicx]

It's not just the scripts, it's the whole shebang.

Join UKBF as a full member and get reviewed, there are loads of things need fixing.

 

[Oliver King]

Hi there. I think SEO has always been somewhat of a 'dirty word'. In my opinion I think that some SEO companies do fundamentally deliver. However in my experience a lot of companies / clients who use them have hugely unrealistic expectations on what they are going to get. Additionally, companies have historically been transfixed with 'rankings' rather than actual ROI and moving the business forward.

Decent SEO now is about the whole company embracing digital marketing (in my opinion) with an SEO providing knowledge and guidance. So ultimately if the project is set up to fail then it more than likely will...

 

[webgeek]

This is not the time to enter the online marketing world as an 'SEO' company because Google has managed the media on this one to the point SEO is a 4 letter word.

Prospects are wanting revenue.

Revenue comes from:

• low hanging fruit - organic & paid search for 'buy' phrases for people looking to buy
• lead gen - content dangling on the hook, lead capture then nurture until buy ready
• interruptive - email and telephone prospecting

As fisicx said there's a lot of talented SEO's out there who have migrated on to lead gen companies. After all, in a competitive niche, leads are worth £100+++ and have potential to be sold more than once.

PPC management is a no-brainer. Buy £X worth of business for £Y amount of advertising. As long as Y > X - expenses, you've got profit. If it's 2:1 or 3:1 or greater, people bite your arm off to buy more.

Email list building, cleansing, prospecting via fresh content, then nurturing through the buyer journey (until they're sales ready leads), that's where big money is at.

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A PPC manager will get me traffic that might convert at a ratio and I might make a profit or loss, so they get paid a few hundred a month.

A lead gen company will sell me leads that may convert at a ratio and I will make a profit, so they get paid a grand or two each month.

The lead gen + nurturers who take it from prospect all the way to sales ready lead will convert at 1 in 2, 1 in 5, 1 in 10 - they make people wealthy and get paid several thousand per month. Some much, much more.

Notice all these get paid every month.

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Organic SEO? Once you get it right, it stays right. So you can grow the footprint of a site, month after month and then shut it off and keep getting paid for years.

HOWEVER, people don't trust SEO because it takes so long to prove whether it works, or gets a penalty. Google gives BS signals and misdirects people, doesn't reveal the rules of the game and screws everyone so that their paid ads get the clicks and pay their stockholders.

-----------

Bottom line: This isn't a thorn in a paw to be removed, like losing weight or getting your lost love to come back. This is wealth waiting to be made. If you can make money for people, and prove it repeatedly - the road is paved with gold.

 

[yourmoneytree.co.uk]

Wow finally a thread after my own heart. I'd like to share with you my experience if I may.

In 2007 I started working for a distributor of furniture. I was fresh out of Uni and I had taken all sorts of courses but to be honest I had no idea what this SEO thing was.

I went along to the Chambers of Commerce events and met some nice chaps that knew about this shiny "SEO" stuff and signed up to their monthly plan.

Immediately they set to work, they turned our website into a shiny web store and put in lots of keyword based content. Ok it didn't read like English but who cares right... I mean it's SEO!

Anyhow six months down the line when I started to question the poor results I was met with a barrage of excuses.. "well you don't have enough products", "you've not given it enough time" etc.

So I cancelled the project and I decided to learn it for myself... here's what I learnt about SEO companies (and PPC companies too):

1. They manage several clients to one person - this means that despite taking either fixed or % fees each month, there's no correlation between my sales and their pay checks. There is literally no accountability.
2. SEO companies always have someone that knows what they are doing meet the clients. Once you're in you get passed to an account manager who has about as much experience as I do, but if there's a problem the expert gets involved and smooths it all over.
3. There's less smoke and mirrors in a magic show

A few years later I moved up in the world and found myself managing a PPC campaign with a multi-million budget. I went in and looked at everything inside and out. It amazed me but I saw the same things I had seen all those years ago, except this time the product was so good and profitable it could cover up what was a pretty poor show of a campaign.

I went to the directors and told them this and they asserted that this multi million turn over PPC company MUST know more than me because they have a shiny office and a ping pong table.. so I was forced to work with the agency to fix it.

A year down the line and 5 PPC managers (I've never known and industry with so much staff turnover) later, we'd brought the cost per aquisition down by 75%. Something I'm still proud of today but I swear I could have done it faster.

I think a lot of business people treat SEO and PPC like the witch doctors of films - they point to them and say "oooo magic" because they just don't understand it and therefore it demands respect.

If I would change one thing though about SEO companies it would be to charge on results. No more flat fees, if I am putting up money then you have to be able to stand behind your skills and charge based on the output you achieve - it can't just be lose lose for me. Charging on results would through and through address most of my concerns.

Newbies certainly wouldn't be given campaigns. Poor results would have to met with actual logical answers & they would only do it IF they could make an impact on my bottom line.

 

[Tony Kelly]

The difficulty with some medium / large digital agencies is they utilise Sales teams to sell their services who have no idea of the nitty gritty of SEO and are basically following a Sales script. Start asking difficult questions and the conversation can go south.

Going directly to an SEO expert / consultant can sometimes cut out a lot of the Sales guff that you face with some agencies, and you at least know that they are a respected expert in the field. It may cost you a little more in terms of budget but on the other hand an SEO agency offering 'guaranteed 1st page rankings for £100 per month' and the likes should be avoided.

That in no way means there aren't great agencies out there with great SEO's working in them - there are many.

 

[fisicx]

Going directly to an SEO expert / consultant can sometimes cut out a lot of the Sales guff that you face with some agencies, and you at least know that they are a respected expert in the field.

Except most of them aren't experts. They are blokes in bedrooms with minimal knowledge who declare themselves experts because they rank #1 for 'village shop in little snoring on the ooze'.

 

[webgeek]

In fact, many agencies put their senior people in the sales/management role - so you meet with someone who has a clue, but then the work is done by juniors who read a post on Moz and treat it as if Matt Cutts carved it in stone and revealed it under a burning bush (after having walked on water to deliver it).

Expecting SEO agencies to charge on results sounds great. Until you remember the Rank Spammer Patent, where Google makes companies doing good and proper things actually go the wrong way (worse) in the rankings, in the short term. Or the fact they don't publish the rules and the fact that negative SEO exists.

You might as well just offer to pay per lead or per conversion, if you're going to expect pay on results.

----------------

You what most divorce attorneys charge you if you 'lose' in court? The same amount is if you 'win'.

This is true of intellectual property, property, contract law and just about anyone who isn't a 'no win no fee personal injury' attorney.

They price like this because their time is worth a shedload and because they've won a bunch in the past. The more they win, the more they charge, usually. If they lose it bunch, it makes the news, or people who use them tell others and they go bust.

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Take a look at the PPC value of 'accounting software'. What would it cost you each month to take all the hits at the top of the page?

Now imagine that term for organic SEO. Someone might get you there for a few grand, maybe 10 or 20k.

Do you want the guarantee? If so, you'll pay a big % chunk of that value.

Want to risk it? If so, you'll pay for the effort at a fraction of the %.

If you want definite results, you'll pay the 15 quid or 30 quid a click and pay through the nose, each and every month you get traffic, via PPC.

 

[Tony Kelly]

Except most of them aren't experts. They are blokes in bedrooms with minimal knowledge who declare themselves experts because they rank #1 for 'village shop in little snoring on the ooze'.

It's not difficult to find an SEO expert. Find some of the top digital events locally / nationally / internationally and see who is speaking, do some research on them and their successes in the past, speak to them and see if they are right for you.

You typically get what you pay for with SEO - going cheap is not the answer. Set campaign goals (website and business performance), agree them with the consultant before work begins and review them regularly. If it works, keep going / scale up. If it doesn't, knock it on the head or change your approach.

 

[Coozo]

I think SEO is commonly considered a dark art simply because of false promises most agencies give. There are no guarantees to natural ranking on search engines, only educated guesses. That should mean that agencies that have been established and accredited for a long time can be considered as safe to look after your SEO needs, but many exploit this and charge the earth for nothing more than a dream.
I personally think we're addressing the wrong issue; it's great to rank high on search engines but unless your business depends 100% on website traffic then what's the point? People spend far too much money on SEO to receive fantastic looking analytical data without addressing the real issue of generating more income for their businesses.

 

[Chris Needham]

I think one of the problems is that because of the knowledge gap between the client and the agency, the client does not understand that true cost of quality work. It is not the client's fault as the freelance market has been saying for years that all you need to do is hire someone for less than you would your cleaner and away you go. If you are operating on a tight budget you are always going to be disappointed.

 

[ShyFish Designs]

Hey,

SEO is a long term project and requires consistency. There are SO MANY ranking factors that 'could' potentially help you increase your Google ranking, but results can be so varied depending on location, business type, local competitors, etc.

Of course achieving a high Google ranking for your website and its keywords are a valuable asset for any business, but you have to remember that you do not 100% control your position.

I personally prefer using PPC, such as Google Adwords, as I can easily figure out how much I need to spend in order to generate X amount of enquiries. Also, you are reaching out to your customers at the exact time of which they are searching for your service / product.

Try finding an SEO who clearly explains that Google ranking is a long term strategy with NO guaranteed results.

 

[Curtis.W]

Lack of communication, managing expectations, clear processes and reporting.

Small businesses tend to get left in the dark, they don't know where they stand, they don't know where their money has gone and tend to feel like they're paying for nothing.

Communication is the number one issue.

 

[fisicx]

SEO is a long term project and requires consistency.

Doesn't have to be. Something local or niche can rank in a very short time.

 

[Certa-Hosting]

An excellent quality of SEO is expensive and takes a lot of time.

People who are short sighted tend to want a quick job for less money and they end up with a company who may give them what they want in those aspects but do not deliver on quality. These people and services are very common, which is where the field gets a bad reputation from.

Some firms also sell pay per click marketing as regular SEO. Organic SEO is different than pay per click marketing.

 

[fancymore]

agree. seo is part of big marketing game. I order seo campaigns for my business and I did not get any high results. Simple links can not bring you success.

 

[Tin]

"What are the biggest problems with SEO companies?"

1: The vast majority of SEOs who falsely tell you they can do SEO and
2: The clients who only have tiny budgets that fully expect to get the world on a stick for the price of a lollipop.

The SEO sells the dream and the client simply believes it. Due diligence by the new client is nowhere to be seen but they believe the SEO will work wonders on a monthly budget of £100. Stupidity at work from both ends.

 

[Wood Flooring Guy]

SEO can be a money pit......i always suggest to firnds they try Fiverr.com, where you will find seo guys that will look at your site for $5....

note* dont just get 1 report.....get a few and compare......some of these guys are useless, but some are great.

regards
Dave

 

[fisicx]

...i always suggest to firnds they try Fiverr.com, where you will find seo guys that will look at your site for $5....

Don't do this. A fiver's worth of SEO isn't going to deliver any benefit.

 

[ADNattan]

Tin's got it spot on.

There's a space for budget SEO, but it's got to target niche search terms with little competition. The problem is no SEO agency is willing to admit that, and they'll claim their budget service will help you outrank Wikipedia within four days.

 

[splashweb]

For me the key point is that "organic" traffic via Google and others is not a sustainable business model, so whilst SEO can work out for you, usually in the longer term, focusing more on paid traffic that converts is a far stronger footing on which to build a business.

 

[Ian J]

For me the key point is that "organic" traffic via Google and others is not a sustainable business model, so whilst SEO can work out for you, usually in the longer term, focusing more on paid traffic that converts is a far stronger footing on which to build a business.

At £40 a click it isn't a cheap way to gain visitors

 

[splashweb]

At £40 a click it isn't a cheap way to gain visitors

Yes, I agree, but then if you're in a sector that is as competitive as that you need to start being more creative with where you source your paid traffic. Relying on free traffic, that may or may not materialise, to support your business is a dangerous game.

 

[fisicx]

Relying on free traffic, that may or may not materialise, to support your business is a dangerous game.

If you do it right you can get loads of free and highly targeted traffic. When the traffic dries up you can then switch to the paid kind. No point in spending money when you don't need to.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

At £40 a click it isn't a cheap way to gain visitors

It is if each visitor is worth £400 or £4000 or £4,000,000

 

[splashweb]

If you do it right you can get loads of free and highly targeted traffic. When the traffic dries up you can then switch to the paid kind. No point in spending money when you don't need to.

Sure, but you are spending money, significant money if you need to engage an SEO and you're in a sector with any significant competition, which is most of them these days. To find a niche that returns high levels of (converting) free traffic, for relevant search terms, within a reasonable time frame is hard now.

I'm not suggesting that site owners should ignore the possibility of free traffic, but be careful as to how much resource and budget you spend going in search of it. If you're in a highly competitive sector and looking for page one slots on Google it isn't going to easy, in fact, unlikely for most of us.

 

[fisicx]

To find a niche that returns high levels of (converting) free traffic, for relevant search terms, within a reasonable time frame is hard now.

Not everyone need high levels on converting traffic. A plumber can only do one boiler install per day. Most businesses are small, niche or local.

 

[Ian J]

It is if each visitor is worth £400 or £4000 or £4,000,000

Unlikely in my industry though as the first three clicks every day will be competitors and others who aren't interested in buying. One of the market leaders spends £10,000 per month on pay per click and I can't compete with that

 

[splashweb]

Not everyone need high levels on converting traffic. A plumber can only do one boiler install per day. Most businesses are small, niche or local.

Isn't it all just a numbers game, every business and sector will have different levels of opportunity for free traffic, which needs to then generate enough business to pay for all the site overheads; will work for some. But, as has already been pointed out - how many SEO's will give you a straight and informed assessment of what your chances are, and therefore where to allocate your budget.

I just did a very local Google search for a plumber in my (rural) village and none of the traditional free first page results were plumbers, they were all authority agregator type sites listing plumbers. Google Places had some actual plumbers listed in it and that's where I'd focus my efforts. That said, if you're business location is more than a few miles away from your target audience then getting displayed on Google Places is unlikely, unless you're the only supplier for miles around!

 

[The Byre]

Here's a tip for all those who find themselves on page 32 on Google and think that dumping large sums onto SEO or PPC schemes is going to solve their problems and get the customers flooding in.

Don't bother! You have got a far bigger problem!

You are on page 32, not because there is something wrong with your website, or because you have failed to activate some magic algorithm within the voodoo that is Google, or because it's Tuesday or because your name is Jim.

You are on page 32 because you have got too much competition.

Which brings me neatly to this sensible statement -

target niche search terms with little competition.

If you are running a dog-grooming service in Cleethorpes and 12 other dog grooming services in Cleethorpes list higher up, spending money, time and effort, getting onto page one, makes as much sense as opening an aardvark grooming service and trying to get onto page one with that!

You are one of thirteen dog grooming services and TBH, the real answer is to go away and find something more sensible to do!

Given the distinct lack of aardvarks in Cleethorpes, you might like to try horses, cats, rats or rabbits - or better still, open a business that provides a series of goods or services that people actually want!

Nobody actually wants or needs 90% of the rubbish business offerings that people try to get off the ground. We don't need yet another used clothing shop, videographer, designer soap studio, magazine for people who collect pencils, electronic dance music labels and we definitely do not need any more portal websites, listing other websites.

The World is full of amazing and rather obvious business opportunities. People need to eat, they need to travel and they need to defecate, die, drink, breath, get healthy, get drunk, laugh and be entertained and do a thousand other things. If you offer people something they actually need and you do so either cheaper or better, they will be lined up at your door!

If they are not lined up at your door, you don't have a business!

For example - a three-year-old silver Ford Focus diesel with between 20,000 and 30,000 miles on the clock is worth about £9,000 in South Wales. Once you approach London, it is worth at least £1,000 more! Within that price difference, lies the possible foundation of a business.