Vaccine Passports

[simon field]

Once you start calling other posters weasels because you don't like their point of view you lose any right to debate IMO

You've already lost the argument and any higher ground you would like to try and take when you do that

Simple as that

And wow do you actually monitor your post to like ratio?

Bless your little cotton socks!

Lol

I've made sure I've liked your last post so it can get a bit higher for you and you can improve your stats

Do you have little graphs at home you record it all on?

But he’s right, and you know it.

You still haven’t said what level of safety you require before you will be able to forget about this whole sorry mess and just get on with life.

Is it 99% safety level? 99.8%? At what point will you cease worrying about the tiny odds that something, somewhere, somehow MAY happen which could, potentially, maybe, possibly present you with a minuscule risk and prevent you from eternal life?

This is so pathetic to watch it’s laughable!

 

[Interestedobserver]

But he’s right, and you know it.

You still haven’t said what level of safety you require before you will be able to forget about this whole sorry mess and just get on with life.

Is it 99% safety level? 99.8%? At what point will you cease worrying about the tiny odds that something, somewhere, somehow MAY happen which could, potentially, maybe, possibly present you with a minuscule risk and prevent you from eternal life?

This is so pathetic to watch it’s laughable!

I'm not scared at all personally

I just want a world we can move forward again and plan for the future again in without risking taking two steps forward and three steps back

He's not right at all. Nor are you. And you've been wrong since day one of this.

You only have to see all the countries around us still struggling and locking down harder right now to know how tough and complicated it is to beat Covid

You can't just criticise UK for what we do when countries around us are all in even worse positions

Start giving credit to our scientists and experts who whether you like it or not have put us in a stronger position than most right now

But the people like you and others like you who have criticised every single lockdown move and decision taken so far can't start claiming they know better than the experts at this stage as you've been wrong from day one

And if we had listened to you guys before we wouldn't be in this strong position now we have got ourselves into

You guys are capable of ruining all the positives we've now got by making knee jerk reactions and opening up too quickly before we really do have a grip on this

And also we have a grip on it we can maintain and move forward with

Just be grateful we never listened to you guys in the first place

Just keep quiet now and let's get the job finished with the guidance of experts not armchair amateurs

You never wanted lockdowns to start with. You want everything how it was when it was never going to be possible. You wanted us to copy other countries who are now well behind us in beating this. And now you want to just be normal again when we still have to manage things and get things in place to keep control.

Leave it to the experts. You guys have been clueless from day one.

 

[simon field]

I'm not scared at all personally

I just want a world we can move forward again and plan for the future again in without risking taking two steps forward and three steps back

He's not right at all. Nor are you. And you've been wrong since day one of this.

You only have to see all the countries around us still struggling and locking down harder right now to know how tough and complicated it is to beat Covid

You can't just criticise UK for what we do when countries around us are all in even worse positions

Start giving credit to our scientists and experts who whether you like it or not have put us in a stronger position than most right now

But the people like you and others like you who have criticised every single lockdown move and decision taken so far can't start claiming they know better than the experts at this stage as you've been wrong from day one

And if we had listened to you guys before we wouldn't be in this strong position now we have got ourselves into

You guys are capable of ruining all the positives we've now got by making knee jerk reactions and opening up too quickly before we really do have a grip on this

And also we have a grip on it we can maintain and move forward with

Just be grateful we never listened top you guys in the first place

Just keep quiet now and let's get the job finished with the guidance of experts not armchair amateurs

You never wanted lockdowns to start with. You want everything how it was when it was never going to be possible. You wanted us to copy other countries who are now well behind us in beating this.

Leave it to the experts. You guys have been clueless from day one.

Nope. You’re terrified, and that has been obvious in your strange, obsessive ramblings since day one. It’s ok to admit it.

You’ve also lost all perspective. 99.6% of the population are thankfully still with us after a year - a figure which has remained constant lockdown or no lockdown.

1800 babies born every day in the uk.

And still you prefer the negative. I’m afraid there’s no helping you, unfortunately you will be like this forever now.

 

[MarkOnline]

I'm not scared at all personally

I just want a world we can move forward again and plan for the future again in without risking taking two steps forward and three steps back

He's not right at all. Nor are you. And you've been wrong since day one of this.

You only have to see all the countries around us still struggling and locking down harder right now to know how tough and complicated it is to beat Covid

You can't just criticise UK for what we do when countries around us are all in even worse positions

Start giving credit to our scientists and experts who whether you like it or not have put us in a stronger position than most right now

But the people like you and others like you who have criticised every single lockdown move and decision taken so far can't start claiming they know better than the experts at this stage as you've been wrong from day one

And if we had listened to you guys before we wouldn't be in this strong position now we have got ourselves into

You guys are capable of ruining all the positives we've now got by making knee jerk reactions and opening up too quickly before we really do have a grip on this

And also we have a grip on it we can maintain and move forward with

Just be grateful we never listened to you guys in the first place

Just keep quiet now and let's get the job finished with the guidance of experts not armchair amateurs

You never wanted lockdowns to start with. You want everything how it was when it was never going to be possible. You wanted us to copy other countries who are now well behind us in beating this. And now you want to just be normal again when we still have to manage things and get things in place to keep control.

Leave it to the experts. You guys have been clueless from day one.

I agree with this post, however, I also understand the frustration that posters with a different view may have. Last year I would have supported the view that it was all an over reaction to a nasty form of flu. I have been proven wrong though, the facts dont lie, look at the resurgence of cases, the variations which are harder to control what has happened in other countries. This Covid virus needs to be shown a bit more respect otherwise it will come back and bite many many more of us (based on what it has alreeadu done/is still doing.) We are coming out of this bad situation, you dont seem to realise how fortunate we are compared to many other nations. You seem to want more and faster. We all want that but its not possible yet.

I dont know what your agendas are, but mine is for our country to get safely back to a situation where we have a secure and covid normal future without relying on wishful thinking. Our government, I believe ( and based on what it has learnt so far) is taking the steps necessary to try and ensure that. You might not like it, but thats whats happening,

 

[Interestedobserver]

Nope. You’re terrified, and that has been obvious in your strange, obsessive ramblings since day one. It’s ok to admit it.

You’ve also lost all perspective. 99.6% of the population are thankfully still with us after a year - a figure which has remained constant lockdown or no lockdown.

1800 babies born every day in the uk.

And still you prefer the negative. I’m afraid there’s no helping you, unfortunately you will be like this forever now.

Which other country in Europe would you like to swap places with it right now Simon?

Who is in a stronger position than us?

If you think we are doing the wrong thing then you must really despise the situation they are all in currently?

So many more leaders that weren't as bright or clever as you guys and have managed things so badly to be where they are right now?

Do you want them all to go the opposite way and lift the lockdowns they are all currently in the process of re-instating?

Why on earth are they locking down when we are opening up?

Yet we aren't opening up quick enough when everywhere around us is locking down?

What are they all scared of in the rest of Europe?

They can see the very same facts you can see?

What are they all terrified of Simon?

What do you know that France, Germany, Italy and Spain and co don't know?

Why are they all locking down when 99 per cent plus of their population hasn't died?

 

[Interestedobserver]

I agree with this post, however, I also understand the frustration that posters with a different view may have. Last year I would have supported the view that it was all an over reaction to a nasty form of flu. I have been proven wrong though, the facts dont lie, look at the resurgence of cases, the variations which are harder to control what has happened in other countries. This Covid virus needs to be shown a bit more respect otherwise it will come back and bite many many more of us (based on what it has alreeadu done/is still doing.) We are coming out of this bad situation, you dont seem to realise how fortunate we are compared to many other nations. You seem to want more and faster. We all want that but its not possible yet.

I dont know what your agendas are, but mine is for our country to get safely back to a situation where we have a secure and covid normal future without relying on wishful thinking. Our government, I believe ( and based on what it has learnt so far) is taking the steps necessary to try and ensure that. You might not like it, but thats whats happening,

My agenda is I've seen crackpot theories from Justin and Simon and co for over a year now on here.

Examples of countries we should be copying that ended up copying us and examples of countries doing better than us that are all now jealous of us

Promises that Covid would be burnt out by last September and that we all had herd immunity already

Etc etc etc

Whatever moves forward we make its not enough for them and they want more and faster because they never wanted lockdown in the first place

They got it all so wrong. They promised crackpot ideas would work that all failed elsewhere and now they still have the temerity to criticise any kinds of restrictions despite that fact we are leading Europe in the way out of this

Thankfully they are in the tiny minority and nobody takes any notice of anything they say or promise

Or we wouldn't be in the position we are now

My agenda is to shootdown armchair experts on here who don't have a clue what they are talking about and should be embarrassed to still post as if they know something the rest of the European leaders and expert scientists (not imposters) don't know about Covid

They follow and quote professors long since discredited. And preach about stuff long since proven to fail.

 

[gpietersz]

@Newchodge quote right, the "not" should not be there - it should say that a single does of the vaccines does reduce the spread of the virus by 67%.

 

[gpietersz]

Well we don't want to be letting people into the UK who aren't vaccinated IMO

And we want to motivate as many of the UK population who can be vaccinated to do so

Vaccinations mean less risk to everyone, and enough vaccinations (plus infections) mean herd immunity so whether a particular individual is vaccinated or not matters very little - because they are unlikely to catch it, and if they do they will probably not infect anyone else.

After all we do allow in people without checking for vaccination against other diseases, some of them more dangerous or more infectious than covid.

Neither do we put real pressure on people to get those vaccines: we offer them, explain that they are safe, but if anti-vaxxers refuse things like MMR we do not take action against them.

Where I think you are right is that countries that are behind us on vaccinations may require proof for vaccination for many months to come - possibly even into next year.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Vaccinations mean less risk to everyone, and enough vaccinations (plus infections) mean herd immunity so whether a particular individual is vaccinated or not matters very little - because they are unlikely to catch it, and if they do they will probably not infect anyone else.

After all we do allow in people without checking for vaccination against other diseases, some of them more dangerous or more infectious than covid.

Neither do we put real pressure on people to get those vaccines: we offer them, explain that they are safe, but if anti-vaxxers refuse things like MMR we do not take action against them.

Where I think you are right is that countries that are behind us on vaccinations may require proof for vaccination for many months to come - possibly even into next year.

Isn't it going to be annual vaccination proof we will need?

For a while at least?

 

[John Hemming]

Which other country in Europe would you like to swap places with it right now Simon?

Who is in a stronger position than us?

I would still wish to swap places with Sweden. They have fewer deaths from Covid (per million) and less restrictions.

You can look at States in the US such as Florida, I think one or both of the Dakotas and Texas and see that the obsession with more untargeted intervention is pretty useless.

There are some countries where it is possible to argue that the interventions have been effective (eg ANZ), but generally it is more of a curates egg.

 

[gpietersz]

Isn't it going to be annual vaccination proof we will need?

Why? Coronaviruses are not flu and do not mutate as fast.

The probability is that once vaccines have it under control sars-cov-2 will disappear as fast as sars-cov-1 did.

We might be unlucky and a mutation might mean we need another round of vaccinations, but, unlike a flu, a SARS family virus is not going to keep doing it.

 

[Mr D]

Why? Coronaviruses are not flu and do not mutate as fast.

The probability is that once it stops spreading sars-cov-2 will disappear as fast as sars-cov-1 did.

We might be unlucky and a mutation might mean we need another round of vaccinations, but, unlike a flu, a SARS family virus is not going to keep doing it.

How many mutations are known about currently with covid 19?

 

[gpietersz]

@Mr D AFAIK over 4,000 known mutations so far, but none that make current vaccines ineffective.

There three strains of the virus that infect humans, one of which caused SARS, another of which caused MERS, and the latest which causes covid, and hundreds of other strains that do not infect humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome–related_coronavirus and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095448/

The bigger threat is not covid but the likelihood that more strains will will jump to humans: if it happened three times in two decades I think its reasonable to expect it to happen again at some point. We probably need generic plans to deal with a coronavirus such as being prepared to develop vaccines quickly - to an extent we already are as AFAIK some of the covid vaccines were developed faster because of research done into developing SARS vaccines.

 

[MikeJ]

I would still wish to swap places with Sweden. They have fewer deaths from Covid (per million) and less restrictions.

We were averaging 1300 deaths a day towards the end of January, around a month after we locked down. Since then the deaths have dropped steadily.

What do you think we should have done instead of a lockdown?

 

[gpietersz]

To correct what I said earlier, there are two strains of the virus species that infect humans (SARS and Covid), but there was a third coronavirus (MERS) that has infected humans in recent years.

 

[Justin Smith]

However, they do need the ability to adapt and to change
Something you yourself have never shown any inclination towards embracing

I do not want to change my life for teh worse t

I was using your words

You've described it as a "tragedy"

Ive then questioned if it's such a "tragedy" to the village then why haven't you and the villagers given the restaurant the support it needed to survive

Whilst also questioning whether the owners had the ability to adapt

And pointing out the best restaurant owners in villages have flourished during lockdown and adapted

You like to create drama on here

I like to challenge you back

And won't let you get away with flowery stuff and false sympathy for others that I don't buy

If you care so much about this "tragedy'" (your words not mine) post me a link to the restaurant in question

Let's Google it together and take a look what they've done the last 12 months and how the village has supported them through this?

Let's analyse it. It's a business forum. It will be good to analyse what theyve done

Please post a link

Like I say - I also assume you've been having deliveries from them every week because you value them so much in your village?

You've not answered that yet?

This is BS.
No restaurant "has flourished" through this, some have not lost as much as others.
You appear to be saying that the villagers should have had a whip round to subsidise them ? ! ?
I though the governments was effectively doing that, what else have they blown that £250 billion on ?
Actually AFAIK there was no warning as to the fact they might not reopen.

 

[Mr D]

@Mr D AFAIK over 4,000 known mutations so far, but none that make current vaccines ineffective.

There three strains of the virus that infect humans, one of which caused SARS, another of which caused MERS, and the latest which causes covid, and hundreds of other strains that do not infect humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome–related_coronavirus and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095448/

The bigger threat is not covid but the likelihood that more strains will will jump to humans: if it happened three times in two decades I think its reasonable to expect it to happen again at some point. We probably need generic plans to deal with a coronavirus such as being prepared to develop vaccines quickly - to an extent we already are as AFAIK some of the covid vaccines were developed faster because of research done into developing SARS vaccines.

So with 4000 mutations in a short space of time we can expect eventually some to be infecting people who have had the virus or who have had the vaccine.
Thought they were working on some boosters for some strains - why do that if vaccine is effective against all?

 

[Mr D]

I do not want to change my life for teh worse t


This is BS.
No restaurant "has flourished" through this, some have not lost as much as others.
You appear to be saying that the villagers should have had a whip round to subsidise them ? ! ?
I though the governments was effectively doing that, what else have they blown that £250 billion on ?
Actually AFAIK there was no warning as to the fact they might not reopen.

If the villagers had supported the restaurant enough and it had provided sufficient services to the locals perhaps it would be a different story.
So this restaurant goes under. Someone else will see demand and look at meeting it.

Hey that person could be .... You!

 

[Mr D]

To correct what I said earlier, there are two strains of the virus species that infect humans (SARS and Covid), but there was a third coronavirus (MERS) that has infected humans in recent years.

Yes MERS is somewhat more difficult to catch. And far more deadly.
That ever spreads like covid did then lockdown will be the least of our trouble.

 

[John Hemming]

To correct what I said earlier, there are two strains of the virus species that infect humans (SARS and Covid), but there was a third coronavirus (MERS) that has infected humans in recent years.

AFAIK there are four more relatively trivial coronaviruses that I can list if you ask me to research this, but that I cannot name off the top of my head. They are much more common, however.

 

[John Hemming]

We were averaging 1300 deaths a day towards the end of January, around a month after we locked down. Since then the deaths have dropped steadily.

What do you think we should have done instead of a lockdown?

I have I think posted here, but I have posted elsewhere the patterns from specifically Cornwall which I think demonstrate that the lockdown in England may have created more infection rather than less.

Furthermore the lockdown in March/April onwards probably caused more deaths later in 2020 and in 2021.

There is a solid scientific argument for this.

However, I accept that solid proof does not exist at the moment. What is clear is that there is not solid proof for lockdown.

There is a good argument for targeted protection. That could have saved lives, but we went instead for a really rather foolish general shutdown and initially almost 127,000 people in the UK have died, but also we face some long term difficulties as a country.

 

[Mr D]

I have I think posted here, but I have posted elsewhere the patterns from specifically Cornwall which I think demonstrate that the lockdown in England may have created more infection rather than less.

Furthermore the lockdown in March/April onwards probably caused more deaths later in 2020 and in 2021.

There is a solid scientific argument for this.

However, I accept that solid proof does not exist at the moment. What is clear is that there is not solid proof for lockdown.

There is a good argument for targeted protection. That could have saved lives, but we went instead for a really rather foolish general shutdown and initially almost 127,000 people in the UK have died, but also we face some long term difficulties as a country.

Eventually we will be able to figure out how many more would have died without lockdown.

We do know that the public were ignoring the fact a virus was spreading that could kill people. Most appeared happily willing to carry on as normal.

Cheltenham festival - anyone go?

 

[Interestedobserver]

We were averaging 1300 deaths a day towards the end of January, around a month after we locked down. Since then the deaths have dropped steadily.

What do you think we should have done instead of a lockdown?

What I find quite amusing is we have the usual anti lockdown people desperate to open everything up quickly now

Same people who were so anti the lockdown measures that put us in a position to even consider opening everything up

If they had there way we wouldn't even

I do not want to change my life for teh worse t


This is BS.
No restaurant "has flourished" through this, some have not lost as much as others.
You appear to be saying that the villagers should have had a whip round to subsidise them ? ! ?
I though the governments was effectively doing that, what else have they blown that £250 billion on ?
Actually AFAIK there was no warning as to the fact they might not reopen.

I know chefs including Michelin star chefs of the busiest restaurants in the area seriously considering continuing delivery only even when they are allowed to re-open

They've discovered they can serve far more people and are not restricted by the size of their restaurants

You have no idea what you are talking about Justin so stick to selling aerials

Yes you could have supported that restaurant in your village by embracing any takeaway service they offered (clearly you didnt as I've given you several opportunities to tell us now) or maybe they couldn't be arsed

Wheres the link to the restaurant so we can take a look at what they attempted to do to adapt and survive?

Or have they just taken Govt support for as long as they could and sat on their arses doing nothing?

Which is it?

 

[gpietersz]

AFAIK there are four more relatively trivial coronaviruses that I can list if you ask me to research this, but that I cannot name off the top of my head. They are much more common, however.

Good ppoint, a number, including some of the many viruses that cause common cold. However they have been around for a long time AFAIK (not sure). We have had two sars coronaviruses and one other that have leapt to humans in the last 20 years, and proved dangerous. That is worrying.

 

[John Hemming]

Good ppoint, a number, including some of the many viruses that cause common cold. However they have been around for a long time AFAIK (not sure). We have had two sars coronaviruses and one other that have leapt to humans in the last 20 years, and proved dangerous. That is worrying.

Most common cold viruses are Rhinoviuruses. Some are coronaviruses.

 

[simon field]

@Interestedobserver, don’t forget a life jacket when taking a shower, and a hard hat, can’t be too careful now!

 

[Interestedobserver]

@Interestedobserver, don’t forget a life jacket when taking a shower, and a hard hat, can’t be too careful now!

Funny you should mention life jackets

Just looking at booking a UK staycation cruise for 4 nights on Britannia 18th July from Southampton

Goes against all my better instincts as I'm sure the boat will be full of old people all passing om Covid to each other

Not scared at all

Purely wondering whether it will be allowed to happen once they all start having to be dropped off to go to hospital?

What do you think Simon?

What's the chances of it going ahead?

Don't want P and O holding onto my cash if it gets cancelled

I like the idea of reading some books on deck, eating in the restaurants and watching some entertainment with a few cocktails

 

[Mr D]

Good ppoint, a number, including some of the many viruses that cause common cold. However they have been around for a long time AFAIK (not sure). We have had two sars coronaviruses and one other that have leapt to humans in the last 20 years, and proved dangerous. That is worrying.

May have had dozens of viruses leap to humans.

Without causing major problems.

It's of interest to researchers and historians but unless having a big impact it's not noticed by most people.

Bird flu may have been infecting humans for a considerable time. These days most people do not handle birds much - loss of antibodies?

 

[Justin Smith]

I have just heard that the only restaurant in our village will not be reopening. A tragedy for the owner and staff, but very upsetting for many of the residents, it was great being able to go out for a meal and not have to drive home.
This pandemic has resulted in the biggest over reaction in the history of the world, and if that point was arguable before the vaccine, it certainly is not now.
Am I angry ? You bet your rear end I am.

It as only just occurred to me that all these suppression apologists who have been saying "be patient, eventually we'll get (almost) back to normal", what does a another few months matter ? Well they have been proven wrong. Julio's was due to reopen, now it isn't. And all for sweet FA as we have vaccinated 31 million people and the vast majority of those unvaccinated are not at significant risk from Covid. What exactly is going to change in these months of unnecessary purgatory when we are way into the law of diminishing returns ?
Post rational.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I have come to the conclusion that the usual suspects on here will be OK as we have all been vaccinated and we will get a pet passport . Thankfully this applies to me so I dont care about the rest of you

Some of you are too young but most concerning are the ones that are too stupid

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

@Interestedobserver, don’t forget a life jacket when taking a shower, and a hard hat, can’t be too careful now!

Please post a picture

 

[MarkOnline]

This is BS.
No restaurant "has flourished" through this, some have not lost as much as others.
You appear to be saying that the villagers should have had a whip round to subsidise them ? ! ?
I though the governments was effectively doing that, what else have they blown that £250 billion on ?
Actually AFAIK there was no warning as to the fact they might not reopen.

Interested Observer is in the industry I believe so should know whats happeneing in his industry.
I am inclinded to agree with him, if the village restaurant didnt adapt to what was happening they havent done themselves any favours, they had the whole village to themselves by the sound of it.

 

[paulears]

One of the posh expensive holiday centres has sold all their capacity from the summer. Luckily us older people have had our jabs. All my family under 40 have all had then now, and frankly as the holiday industry with spending power I’d focussed on 50 plus, cruises, centre resorts and similar will be fine. The wrinklies wont be passing on the virus, we’ve all been vaccinated. The young people who you see on the TV will either get it or not. They don’t go on cruises. The stupid people who demand the virus is eradicated but refuse the vaccination and now claim discrimination can find the nearest pier and jump. Clearly we ARE discriminating against stupid people, and thankfully that one isn't yet illegal. There’s a place near me where young people are doing all night benders then amazing the dog walkers with their zombie like reactions. Then their parents arrive in Mercs, Audis and Range Rovers to take the poor darlings home. Lockdown has affected their mental health, apparently.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

One of the posh expensive holiday centres has sold all their capacity from the summer. Luckily us older people have had our jabs. All my family under 40 have all had then now, and frankly as the holiday industry with spending power I’d focussed on 50 plus, cruises, centre resorts and similar will be fine. The wrinklies wont be passing on the virus, we’ve all been vaccinated. The young people who you see on the TV will either get it or not. They don’t go on cruises. The stupid people who demand the virus is eradicated but refuse the vaccination and now claim discrimination can find the nearest pier and jump. Clearly we ARE discriminating against stupid people, and thankfully that one isn't yet illegal. There’s a place near me where young people are doing all night benders then amazing the dog walkers with their zombie like reactions. Then their parents arrive in Mercs, Audis and Range Rovers to take the poor darlings home. Lockdown has affected their mental health, apparently.

Ha ha lets just concern ourselves with our own mental health I have spent to long worry about other people . Its Summer 2021 and we are going to the sun because we had a jab

γεια πώς είσαι

 

[MikeJ]

However, I accept that solid proof does not exist at the moment. What is clear is that there is not solid proof for lockdown.

Well, I'd argue that the virus cases dropping a few weeks after the December lockdown followed by deaths a few weeks after that, is pretty good evidence.

I don't think the case numbers are sufficiently accurate to show the same for last March's lockdown, but the deaths peaked around a month later. That's pretty good evidence for most people.

 

[Justin Smith]

Interested Observer is in the industry I believe so should know whats happeneing in his industry.
I am inclinded to agree with him, if the village restaurant didnt adapt to what was happening they havent done themselves any favours, they had the whole village to themselves by the sound of it.

Oh sorry, it's the faulty of the restaurant owner, not the government;s Covid suppression ?
If all these businesses are in danger of failing but it's actually their own fault because they're apparently not good enough businessmen, why are the govt using hundreds of Billions of tax dollars to furlough and support all these businesses across the country ?
So that's all been a waste of money too, just like the Billions they've wasted on mass testing and test and trace......

 

[Justin Smith]

One of the posh expensive holiday centres has sold all their capacity from the summer. Luckily us older people have had our jabs. All my family under 40 have all had then now, and frankly as the holiday industry with spending power I’d focussed on 50 plus, cruises, centre resorts and similar will be fine. The wrinklies wont be passing on the virus, we’ve all been vaccinated. The young people who you see on the TV will either get it or not. They don’t go on cruises. The stupid people who demand the virus is eradicated but refuse the vaccination and now claim discrimination can find the nearest pier and jump. Clearly we ARE discriminating against stupid people, and thankfully that one isn't yet illegal. There’s a place near me where young people are doing all night benders then amazing the dog walkers with their zombie like reactions. Then their parents arrive in Mercs, Audis and Range Rovers to take the poor darlings home. Lockdown has affected their mental health, apparently.

But maybe they will.....

Julia Hartley Brewer posed a semi satirical, but very relevant, question this morning :
Are SAGE (and the Govt) secretly Anti Vaxxers ?
Think about it, that's not as ridiculous as it sounds :

1 - If the vaccines work and the vaccine roll out is going so spectacularly well that pretty much all those significantly vulnerable to Covid have been vaccinated, why are vaccine passports required?
2 - Why are we still under heavy suppression for at least another two months ?
3 - Why are the Govt investing Billions in mass testing (particularly as most people will not do it anyway ! ) ?
4 - Why are they continuing to bang on about test & trace (particularly as that will never work that well either ! ) ?
5 - Why are we being threatened with possibly having to wear masks forever ?

You heard it here first, the Govt and SAGE cannot have confidence in the vaccine !

 

[Justin Smith]

Lockdown has affected their mental health, apparently.

You really shouldn't joke about that, all this suppression of society has affected people's mental health in a big way. I have been talking to some of the other parents from my lad's school whose kids have been off school for more than half the last year. They were quite frank about the effect on their kids mental health and indeed their own. I've always been resilient and self confident, now I'm semi depressed and angry most of the time.
I predict significant increases in the suicide and divorce rates over the next year or so.
It really is not funny.

 

[MarkOnline]

Oh sorry, it's the faulty of the restaurant owner, not the government;s Covid suppression ?
If all these businesses are in danger of failing but it's actually their own fault because they're apparently not good enough businessmen, why are the govt using hundreds of Billions of tax dollars to furlough and support all these businesses across the country ?
So that's all been a waste of money too, just like the Billions they've wasted on mass testing and test and trace......

I didnt say it was the fault of the restaurant owner that he had to close the restaurant due to lockdown. I did say that he may not have adapted to circumstances as well as he could have. Some restaurants have thrived according to Interested Observer, why is that? Is it luck or an aunty died and left them a few quid or maybe they did things differently because of the situation they were faced with?

In answer to your second comment,, because the government had a price to pay for enforcing the policy of lockdown. Some businesses which were supported werent even healthy enough to get a newspaper on credit(before lockdown). There will always be exceptions and for some their circumstances have been tragic. But a commercial food business has been allowed to trade perfectly legally, just not in the way they used to. No its not been a waste of money, its been a cost necessary to try and try and reduce the impact the virus had on our core facilities such as the health service, police fire services etc If we were looking at this 12 months ago with the knowledge we have now, the government may have done things differently, but they didnt.
IMO some businesses were just waiting to die anyway but now have the luxury of blaming covid

Its money money money with you isnt it!,If we want to learn how to manage this virus in the future then like everything it has a price, South Korea are one of the nations who have been successful in managing the virus, a major part of that management was tracking the virus and containg it, you think that policy had no cost?

On the brighter side you can open up your store next week, Gyms cant, I hope you give the gym owners a share of your good fortune.

 

[gpietersz]

May have had dozens of viruses leap to humans.

Without causing major problems.

Yes, but is quite a frequent source of problems - every so often there is a pandemic. What is significant is that there have been two SARS variants and one other coronavirus that have been dangerous in a short period so they are something to watch. One of the reasons that the world was so badly prepared for covid was there was a general assumption (e.g. in British government planning for a pandemic, for the last few decades) that it would be a flu like disease.

I do not think viruses causing killer diseases is new, but that we now live in a secure era where the deaths are more noticeable. Unless you have modern medicine you would have worse diseases than covid (cholera, TB, the nastier flu variants, malaria, smallpox, the various "plagues"......) either constantly with you or coming and going. Something like covid would be just a bad year.

Covid has killed about .036% of the world population, the plague of Justinian may have killed as much as 50%, and there were many plagues that killed a third or a quarter of the population. Even the relatively recent Spanish flu killed at last 1%, possibly as much as 6%. Even a hundred years ago something on the scale of covid would be regarded as minor. Even now for people in many third world countries its not the deadliest killer around.