UPS Demanding Import Tax From Me I Never Asked Them To Pay

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Hopefully UPS has a black list and any customers who upset them go on it, and any goods delivered must pay cash to the delivery driver before they get the goods. Not enough cash the scheduled redelivery at a cost

I disagree Chris I dont let any of my drivers handle any payment transactions they dont need to worry and they dont need to care .

Pay the duty before it leaves the depot or send it back to America and bill the customer for that Get a CCJ and send the balliffs out if they wont play ball

 

[Second Place]

The OP has asked for advice, received it and then wishes to argue about it. Thats their perogative of course.
Waste of time to continue.

I've asked for advice and been told I'm wrong but no one has explained to me why I'm wrong. As far as I'm concern I'm being asked to pay UPS for an unsolicited favour and under civil law I don't need to pay that. I have an argument as to why I should not pay. Other poster are just saying I owe the money because I owe the money. I'd like to see one argument as to why I owe UPS anything.

Your right but it pisses people off when they have spent their lifetime perfecting their craft and then somebody has a better idea

Same as my comment above.

 

[fisicx]

What does is say in the T&C of the company your brought the item from? Do they mention taxes and duty?

Are you disputing having to pay VAT or disputing that the courier has paid on your behalf?

Read this:

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

 

[Second Place]

What does is say in the T&C of the company your brought the item from? Do they mention taxes and duty?

Are you disputing having to pay VAT or disputing that the courier has paid on your behalf?

Read this:

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

To be honest I'm not 100% sure about the terms and conditions from the company I bought this from but if it did say I'm responsible for all import tax- which it most definitely will say- it not relevant to UPS as it's not a contract I hold with them. I think what would happen in this situation is UPS would reclaim the funds from the US supplier and the US supplier would then reclaim the funds from me.

I'm not disputing that someone has to pay VAT . The standard way is pay VAT or don't get your parcel. What I'm disputing is I don't owe UPS for the VAT they paid on my behalf as I did not ask them to do so. They did me an unsolicited favour and on top of that they are charging me and admin fee for doing it.

 

[fisicx]

Have you got the product?

Go read the T&C. If they say the courier pays then UPS is correct. The fee they charge is allowed according to UK law.

 

[kulture]

You can of course continue down this idiotic route. It will end up with your supplier saying that they will never send you goods again and UPS blacklisting your address and not delivering to you. As Fisicx says, it is likely that the T&C that you signed means that you owe for not just the VAT and duty but also the admin fee. It may be that your supplier will have to sue you for this rather than UPS.

The current situation is that UPS is doing work on your behalf, filling out forms and paying your bill. They are not a charity, they want paid for this work. Although you did not contract UPS directly you did contract your supplier who had to use someone to do this work in order to complete the order.

Now the REAL question you should be asking is either "how do I persuade my supplier to include all this in the original price" OR "how do I set myself up with HMRC so they bill me directly and UPS does not have to do this extra work on my behalf"

So pay up, stop being so pedantic and wasting your time on a situation now in the past that you cannot change, and look to see how to do it better in the future.

 

[japancool]

The standard way is pay VAT or don't get your parcel.

Only when the item is delivered by Royal Mail or Parcelforce.

Have you spoken to HMRC yet?

 

[Paul Norman]

As a general point, from time to time any of us might order something from outside the UK.

That is likely to mean there is some tax to pay. By us. It seems to me that simply by ordering the goods we are agreeing to pay the tax on them.

Trying to avoid that tax simply because the admin takes a few weeks to catch up seems no different to dodging your income tax, or any other tax. It is not how the system works.

Assume you owe the tax. When the bill comes, pay it. If it never comes, great. But in a case like this you do, most certainly owe the money.

Had you been asked prior to delivery, would have have sent the parcel back? I am hoping you are not that person.

 

[Mr D]

OP, it is clear you do not want to pay the bill.

So send the goods back to the US and next time refuse delivery. Or insist on paying the supp;ier and have them send DDP.

 

[Paul Norman]

OP, it is clear you do not want to pay the bill.

So send the goods back to the US and next time refuse delivery. Or insist on paying the supp;ier and have them send DDP.

Or, of course, let them take you to court. That way, of course, you will end up having to pay court fees, as well.

 

[Second Place]

Or, of course, let them take you to court. That way, of course, you will end up having to pay court fees, as well.

At least if it went to court and I lost a judge would explain to me in simple terms why I owe UPS money for a bill I did not ask them to pay and how they can add an admin fee on top of that.

 

[Mr D]

At least if it went to court and I lost a judge would explain to me in simple terms why I owe UPS money for a bill I did not ask them to pay and how they can add an admin fee on top of that.

No, a judge would explain to you that you were a fool.

You don't want people explaining to you why you should pay. You want to argue that you should not pay regardless.
Still, do as you wish. Its not anyone else going to pay for that.

 

[fisicx]

At least if it went to court and I lost a judge would explain to me in simple terms why I owe UPS money for a bill I did not ask them to pay and how they can add an admin fee on top of that.

You may not have asked them but the T&C of the seller may do. UPS don’t cough up cash without instruction. Read the sellers terms.

 

[WaveJumper]

50 threads and counting

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Yeah next question will be why is my employer deducting income tax and ni from me. I never authorised my employer to do that and dispute the deductions now.

 

[Second Place]

No, a judge would explain to you that you were a fool.

You don't know do you? Your assuming I have to pay this but legally speaking don't have a clue why. Lets pretend I just lost the court case and you are the judge. Explain to me in a legal sense why I owe UPS money.

 

[japancool]

So have you spoken to HMRC?

 

[Newchodge]

I've asked for advice and been told I'm wrong but no one has explained to me why I'm wrong. As far as I'm concern I'm being asked to pay UPS for an unsolicited favour and under civil law I don't need to pay that. I have an argument as to why I should not pay. Other poster are just saying I owe the money because I owe the money. I'd like to see one argument as to why I owe UPS anything.



Same as my comment above.

As you want a legal opinion and won't accept anything else, I suggest you pay a lawyer and get the advice you need.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

As you want a legal opinion and won't accept anything else, I suggest you pay a lawyer and get the advice you need.

He would be telling them they don't know they are doing

 

[Paul Norman]

You don't know do you? Your assuming I have to pay this but legally speaking don't have a clue why. Lets pretend I just lost the court case and you are the judge. Explain to me in a legal sense why I owe UPS money.

As stated, if you want a lawyer's explanation, then you should engage one.

There is an element of pragmatism here. You do owe the tax. That is the law of the land.

The situation regarding the admin fee will be covered in the sellers terms somewhere. I assume you have addressed the question to them?

I suspect the admin fee is not large. Is it worth, to you, risking additional court costs? If it is, then let it run to court and sort it out there.

This, of course, is not a legal explanation. I am not a lawyer. I am a business person who sometimes imports stuff.

Most of us that regular import stuff are used to paying import taxes, and used to paying modest admin fees in cases like this.

 

[NickGrogan]

You don't know do you? Your assuming I have to pay this but legally speaking don't have a clue why. Lets pretend I just lost the court case and you are the judge. Explain to me in a legal sense why I owe UPS money.

Why would the judge have to explain anything to you?

 

[WaveJumper]

Perhaps it would go something like this:

Duties and taxes are charged by Customs in the destination country and the receiver is responsible for paying them. To make the whole system simpler, the carrier in your case UPS will pay the charges on the receiver's behalf and collect payment from the receiver prior to or on delivery. A lot of carriers will not even deliver the goods until this has been paid upfront.

Before all this happens the Customs authorities in the destination country must determine whether any duties and taxes are applicable. This will be based on the information provided on the parcel label (or Waybill) and Customs paperwork, in particular the contents, declared value and weight. If customs saw an issue with or thought the invoice value did not match the goods in question, they would hold item of items until they were satisfied, they had the correct information. All basic stuff.

I think any judge would ask; you obviously read the terms and conditions of the seller, you understood those and their shipping terms and by going ahead with the purchase agreed with said terms. And knowing what the US are like I bet they had that buttoned up pretty tight.

Can you show the judge / court something from these which suggests otherwise, further allowing the judge to consider why you should or could not be held liable for reimbursing the costs of your purchase?

Goods are sent, seller is now responsible (under the terms and to comply with all duties upon arrival in UK) The excepted procedure (as detailed above) is the carrier has brought items through customs for you (and everybody else for that matter) and paid the duty on said items so they can clear the dockside.

I am sure the judge would quite rightly point out this is the excepted practise you agreed by the seller’s terms and UPS can bill you for the import duty and all other associated admin costs to date plus their court fees on top.

 

[WaveJumper]

Know idea what you bought but let's hope it's been worth all the hassle or should I say expense.

 

[ecommerce84]

Customs would not release the goods without payment so UPS paid them but I did not ask them to, they did it of their own accord. I could have have chosen to refuse to pay the tax and had the item returned to the USA but UPS effectively prevented me from pursuing that action as they delivered the parcel to me without notifying me there was tax to pay.

UPS aren’t going to spend their day ringing around everyone that owes VAT asking if they still want to go ahead with the purchase or send it back to the seller.

Presumably you’d expect UPS to cover the cost of the return of the item to the seller and for the seller to refund in full?

I feel that the crux of the issue is that you were hoping the item would slip through customs and you’d have no VAT to pay. For an order of £600 it was quite likely you’d have to pay VAT on it. You should’ve taken this into account when purchasing the item.

I’d be glad if UPS paid my VAT bill for me, delivered the item and then billed me after the event. A lot more convenient than having to pay before the item is delivered or having to deal with HMRC directly.

Assuming you’re not on some kind of wind up, I’d pay your bill and take it as a lesson learnt that if you import fairly high value items you might get a bill for the taxes owed.

 

[DontAsk]

This is a good point. I did not invoke them as the shipper that was the US company I ordered from. I have no contract with UPS regarding this shipment. The contract was between the sender -who paid the postage- and UPS.

You might think it irrelevant (previous reply) but I will ask again, what do the sellers Ts&Cs say about shipment? You accepted their contract terms which may invoke UPS terms for payment of duty and tax.

Just pay up and move on.

 

[fisicx]

@Second Place - as an aside, if UPs hadn’t paid on your behalf, how were you planning to pay the VAT?

 

[kulture]

Seeing as the OP is not paying any attention to us, I sugget he reads what the UK Government has to say on the matter
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

The other thing to consider that if YOU do not pay UPS, then UPS will not pay HMRC, in which case it may well be HMRC who prosecutes you under the provisions of The Customs (Import Duty) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018. You really do not want HMRC customs and excise on your case.

 

[DontAsk]

Well our experience of UPS is that they seem to be in a bit of a mess with these new rules.

It's nothing to do with new rules, nothing to do with Brexit, etc.,...

Couriers like UPS, FeEx, etc., have worked this way for years. Deliver the goods as expeditiously as possible (surely a good thing) and then bill the customer.

It's WAY better than the equivalent with ParcelForce. You have the international tracking number and you can see the goods have arrived. Can you pay the duty? NO, you have to wait for PF to write to you with a DIFFERENT reference number.

A few years ago PF would take payment on the doorstep.

 

[Mr D]

You don't know do you? Your assuming I have to pay this but legally speaking don't have a clue why. Lets pretend I just lost the court case and you are the judge. Explain to me in a legal sense why I owe UPS money.

I've never been called a fool by a judge. Have seen it happen multiple times over things a lot less clear cut than paying something like this.

I'd call you a fool and an idiot trying to evade taxes - because that is exactly how its coming across.
You don't want an answer, you want to argue.

Really, none of us will care if you have to pay extra fees for late payment or debt collection.

 

[GraemeL]

The OP has asked for advice, received it and then wishes to argue about it. Thats their perogative of course. Waste of time to continue.

Thats was post 37. Now up to post 69 and same story.

 

[MOIC]

The OP should take UPS to court for paying Duties he never asked them to pay, incur legal costs, lose the case and then find out he was wrong not to pay.

Any advice given on this forum, he’s going to argue with.

The restaurant analogy is laughable and demonstrates he does not understand the concept of importing goods into the UK.

Pay and move on.

 

[MikeJ]

A more relevant restaurant analogy is one where the food needs to be paid for in advance. The waiter has paid for the food, brought it to you, and presented you with a bill including a service charge.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

1. Anyone importing products should understand how the process works and the costs involved
2. if @Second Place has issues, it should take them up with their supplier
3. This situation is not different to paying for a product in the UK with VAT. UPS are acting as the tax collector on behalf of HRMC.

@Second Place you are happy to pay the VAT and have - just move on!