The Go To Theme?

[Alan]

I would be interested to see a website built with basic blocks that looks equally as good as a website built using WPBakery or Elementor. Does anyone have any references to something they have worked with?

My website is build just with blocks. https://fullworks.net
My sons business website is built with just blocks https://lawncrew.co.uk/

 

[Wesley Cude]

My website is build just with blocks.

Nice, these types of websites certainly have their place and serve their purpose. They work absolutely fine in such instances. However, these types of design are not on the same level, aesthetically as a premium theme. It just appears to be easier, quicker and you get better results using a premium theme.

As there were improvements with my website responsively, your website is also facing issues, with the logo being too big so the hamburger menu drops down and images overlapping written content.

To say WP Bakery is not responsive is just wrong, it is how you use it.

 

[fisicx]

To say WP Bakery is not responsive is just wrong, it is how you use it.

Yes it is responsive. It's just not very good at being responsive. Look at your site on your phone and you will see why (and still only scores 32/100).

People get hung up on layout. Your visitors don't care, it's the content and navigation that matter not the bling. I've been working with a client who was using a premium theme and elementor. We stripped out all the crud and used a simpler theme. Conversions went up as no there were no animations, hero images and distracting cruft.

 

[Wesley Cude]

Yes it is responsive. It's just not very good at being responsive. Look at your site on your phone and you will see why (and still only scores 32/100).

People get hung up on layout. Your visitors don't care, it's the content and navigation that matter not the bling. I've been working with a client who was using a premium theme and elementor. We stripped out all the crud and used a simpler theme. Conversions went up as no there were no animations, hero images and distracting cruft.

I would have to disagree with you, users do care on the quality of the design and most importantly, clients care. There is certainly a use case for building a website using blocks and not putting so much thought into the design, however depending on your target audience, some would likely choose a website that looks like it has been designed to a higher level.

Using a premium theme easily allows you to generate a website to a higher standard in terms of design and takes out a lot of the work required using blocks.

 

[fisicx]

You can create great design using blocks and the right theme. Maybe not as simply as using a page builder but as a developer you would have no problem creating the necessary classes.

Bakery, elementor and Divi all have the same fundamental problem in that they are desktop plugins/themes. Because mobile is now so important for the majority of websites you need to turn things on their head and take a mobile first approach to site development.

But if you want to use a page builder you need to find a way to fix performance. This is going to be crucial as time goes on. It's the first indicator Google displays in it's WCV assessment.

Also worth noting that great design is often subjective. It doesn't matter what you or I like or to a certain extent what the client likes. All that matters is what the users of the site think. The internet is littered with beautiful sites that just fail to convert. Amazon on the other other hand isn't pretty but convert very highly.

I test everything and in almost all cases the simpler the layout the better the conversion.

 

[Alan]

They work absolutely fine in such instances. However, these types of design are not on the same level, aesthetically as a premium theme.

The internet is littered with beautiful sites that just fail to convert. Amazon on the other other hand isn't pretty but convert very highly.
I test everything and in almost all cases the simpler the layout the better the conversion.

This is the conversation, aesthetically pleasing or conversion.

And testing is key.

I'll give you a for instance, on my sons site - he changed the headline from 'INDEPENDENT SURREY LAWN CARE PROFESSIONALS' to 'TRANSFORM YOUR LAWN'.

The phones literally stopped ringing. Changed it back, they started again.

It is obvious really - Transform your lawn - what into a swimming pool - a car park - a forest. What are the user looking for - hmm Lawn Care Professional that are not part of a well known franchise of coloured opposed digit - his target customers.

So content really is important and 5 words make a difference.

 

[ctrlbrk]

Because mobile is now so important for the majority of websites you need to turn things on their head and take a mobile first approach to site development.

My understanding is that mobile is a huge factor for Google to be able to favourably rank your website, e.g. in terms of SEO.

But data about conversion rates per device strongly suggest that desktop devices outperform mobile devices by significant margins.

Shouldn't attention be on Desktop first if we look at conversion rates?

 

[fisicx]

A lot depends on what you are selling and to whom. If you need a plumber, somewhere to eat, a nail salon and so on then mobile is likely to convert better. The girls who have just rented our flat did the whole thing on their phones.

But if you sell construction materials to trade then a desktop will probably outperform. And they will want a very functional site without all the bling.

Like most things webby, the answer to everything is: it depends.

That being said, there is no real need for a developer to ever use a page builder.

 

[ctrlbrk]

That being said, there is no real need for a developer to ever use a page builder.

I agree with you on that. I believe page builders and the like add a lot of bloated code that a DIY theme does not have or need.

 

[JacksonRogues]

Whats everyones go to theme for WP? just mulling over some requirements, to include editable parallax front page, multi image image slider etc

Anyone have a favorite they like to base their sites on? keen to see a few real examples, thanks

Since I have multiple websites, I use different themes..sort of as a test to see what's good and what not. So I've used both free and paid themes.

I also like using the combination of Elementor and JetPlugins for custom designing various pages; plus adding interactive elements.

PS: I have some crocoblock discount code (developer of JetPlugins), if anyone's interested.

 

[fisicx]

I also like using the combination of Elementor and JetPlugins for custom designing various pages; plus adding interactive elements.

Both of these will affect performance. Elementor in particular is bloatware. It's a desktop page builder plugin adapted for mobile - and doesn't do it very well, the UX/UI is very poor.

 

[will892]

I am inclined to agree that elementor or any of the other page builders slow things down. I have elementor pro and built my site using that but in order to get decent page speeds for a photography site I ended stripping it right back to the basics, so much so, that there is no real need for elementor now, but my mobile score is now up to 69 and my desktop is at 95 on pagespeeds with elementor so I am looking at using my staging site to remove elementor and just use a decent lightweight theme to customise with very few add ons. oh and having the contact form on the homepage really slowed it down

 

[fisicx]

I am inclined to agree that elementor or any of the other page builders slow things down. I have elementor pro and built my site using that but in order to get decent page speeds for a photography site I ended stripping it right back to the basics, so much so, that there is no real need for elementor now, but my mobile score is now up to 69 and my desktop is at 95 on pagespeeds with elementor so I am looking at using my staging site to remove elementor and just use a decent lightweight theme to customise with very few add ons. oh and having the contact form on the homepage really slowed it down

There are loads of photographer themes - some free some paid for. Don't try to make it look pretty - the only thing that matters is the portfolio. Remember as well that almost everyone will be using a phone so that stunning layout you created on a desktop will be wasted. Keep it simple.

 

[Elliott Coleman]

Kadence

 

[Simon-G]

Of course, the best way to go about this is to drop WordPress entirely.

99% of most sites you come across are static sites which would benefit hugely from a simply HTML setup instead of the bloat and ongoing hassle that WordPress brings to the table.

And if you really need to add in bog posting etc then you can attach a flat based CMS with very simple editing functionality, and still have superior performance over WP without that need for continual maintenance.

 

[fisicx]

@Simon-G you may be right. But your average small business doesn’t have the skills to build an HTML site, make it responsive, add a contact form, integrate with SM sites, incorporate reviews from external sources and all the other features that can be done very easily with Wordpress.

 

[Simon-G]

Totally agree fisicx, but even you have to agree that the majority of DIY sites that you see (and comment on here and other forums) are more detrimental to their purpose than anything else.

WordPress makes everything easier, but putting a paintbrush in your hand doesn't make you Picasso.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I've seen and dealt with enough D.I.Y website disasters in my time from those who think they can, but can't, as I am sure you have.

 

[fisicx]

Also agree with that. But it still doesn't change the fact that your average small business owner needs a tool to help them build a site. Wordpress is just one of many options. A simple HTML/CSS site needs getting someone to build the site for them. And then keep paying every time they want a small change.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Totally agree fisicx, but even you have to agree that the majority of DIY sites that you see (and comment on here and other forums) are more detrimental to their purpose than anything else.

WordPress makes everything easier, but putting a paintbrush in your hand doesn't make you Picasso.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I've seen and dealt with enough D.I.Y website disasters in my time from those who think they can, but can't, as I am sure you have.

I can see both sides of this one - my rubbish (I freely admit it) DIY site actually produced some exceptional results. Now I've been 'corporated' it's far less effective.

That said, DIYers can be fertile ground for professionals; that is to say the segment of DIYers who recognise that their skills aren't as good as they thought and that their time is better spent elsewhere.

Those are people who have learned about value!

 

[Simon-G]

A simple HTML/CSS site needs getting someone to build the site for them. And then keep paying every time they want a small change.

There are several static site builders out there that do the same as Elementor / Divi etc but produce static site with clean code...

Bootstrap Studio, Blocs, NicePages etc...

NicePages is arguable the easiest of the lot - Think Wix Or SquareSpace but with a static site. Definitely no need for a developer for creation or edits on a simple brochure site.

 

[YasmeenLondon]

I recommend researching Bricks Builder or Oxygen Builder, they are page builders that output "no bloat" clean code but have a steep learning curve.

 

[Simon-G]

I recommend researching Bricks Builder or Oxygen Builder, they are page builders that output "no bloat" clean code but have a steep learning curve.

Oxygen will for all intents and purposes be dropped soon in favour of the developers new tool Breakdance. They finally realised that a one time lifetime payment was not a sustainable business model and all new Oxygen features are going straight to Breakdance. So no mileage with that one and anyone who is using it may want to think about an exit strategy because it wont be about for much longer.

Bricks Builder is too new to the market, and although doing some things bigger and better than the other page builders, its still a page builder, which incidentally can be matched in features and speed / clean code by Gutenberg with Kadence or GeneratePress as the third party framework added to it.

 

[YasmeenLondon]

Oxygen will for all intents and purposes be dropped soon in favour of the developers new tool Breakdance. They finally realised that a one time lifetime payment was not a sustainable business model and all new Oxygen features are going straight to Breakdance. So no mileage with that one and anyone who is using it may want to think about an exit strategy because it wont be about for much longer.

Bricks Builder is too new to the market, and although doing some things bigger and better than the other page builders, its still a page builder, which incidentally can be matched in features and speed / clean code by Gutenberg with Kadence or GeneratePress as the third party framework added to it.

Respectfully, I disagree. Oxygen was not dropped, the company that created it released a new product (breakdance) and said Oxygen will continue to be supported, but you still have countless plugins and tools that will continue to work on oxygen, and people are still building very good websites using it.

Bricks is new but not "too new" they recently released version 1.5 and is very stable, you can create advanced and stable websites with it, I wouldn't recommend it if I haven't used it and tested it thoroughly

Gutenburg is very divisive, I am not a fan and still think it needs more time but I see the appeal in it and I do think with time it will be very popular, Kadence, Generate press and the other block builders are good for basic websites, once you need a bit of customisation it turns into a headache.

 

[Simon-G]

All the new features that users were requesting for Oxygen have and are going to be added to Breakdance. Not sure how much more clearly it can be shown that Oxygen is yesterdays new and that the recurring revenue stream is what the Devs are going for. Oxygen is not dropped, but it wont get much more development so will just wither and die.

Gutenberg is a mess in its vanilla state, but third party frameworks are more than capable of crating dynamic, ecommerce and LMS websites. All the things you can do with Elementor / Divi etc.

 

[fisicx]

How about this for a novel idea.

You use what ever theme/plugin/page builder you want on you sites and everyone else uses what they want.

There is no single solution that will suit everybody nor should there be. There is no best or worse of anything.

 

[YasmeenLondon]

All the new features that users were requesting for Oxygen have and are going to be added to Breakdance. Not sure how much more clearly it can be shown that Oxygen is yesterdays new and that the recurring revenue stream is what the Devs are going for. Oxygen is not dropped, but it wont get much more development so will just wither and die.

Gutenberg is a mess in its vanilla state, but third party frameworks are more than capable of crating dynamic, ecommerce and LMS websites. All the things you can do with Elementor / Divi etc.

I am not sure what we are arguing at this point, I recommended Oxygen for bloat-free code, Oxygen is still supported and should be reliable for the next few years, if anyone wants a "future proof" page builder I recommended Bricks Builder.

Have a nice day.

 

[YasmeenLondon]

There is no best or worse of anything.

I couldn't agree more.

We create Elementor websites, Oxygen Websites, custom coded themes, it all depends on the project scope and how we can create a website that meets all the targets in the most efficient way possible.

 

[fisicx]

Depending on your requirements, DIVi theme is very suitable, you can drag and edit

And bloat out your site with poor code. Divi is well past its sell by date.

 

[Ozzy]

You use what ever theme/plugin/page builder you want on you sites and everyone else uses what they want.

Love this one ?
I’m a PHP coder by trade and started writing websites in raw code for my clients back in the mid-1990’s. I can write a site lean if I wanted to, but I don’t have time to.
I don’t write site for anyone any more (sold that business and now do something else with forums and whatever) but when asked by F&F “can you do a website for me” I spin up a Wordpress installation, ask them to pick a theme from themeforest they like and I install it for them as it’s quick and easy. It does the job and the F&F is happy.

 

[fisicx]

Exactly @Ozzy. Had someone yesterday ask for help with their site and wanted to know which is best theme. There isn’t one. You choose the most suitable for the project. If webflow, Wordpress, shopify, wix or whatever is your platform of choice use it. Doesn’t mean the others are less able. They are just different.