The extremely extremely forbidden problem of lying customers

[leathers]

My job is a service position in bank security. My calls and cases are varied: sometimes it's garden variety stuff, like a request for a replacement bank card. Other times it is victims that have lost their life savings and are balling their eyes out. (It's a privilege to help in that sad moment, but did you really think it was a good idea to move your life savings into the Philippines because your local police told you so?)

So that is the normal stuff. But some cases can be frustrating to the extreme. Why? Because the customer is lying. They will buy stuff like you would usually then call up and claim the money back. Their Amazon Prime membership is fraud. Their cheap counterfeit Nikes are a scam. Their purchases on Paypal are fraud because they've been hacked. They'll even shop at Sainsbury's then claim the money back. People truly expect to be refunded for what they have received or signed up for.

Are these the scabbies? Nope! Wealthy professionals and couples will call up and say they've been a victim of fraud over as little as £5. We can see they've received an OTP to their device, or use the app to authorise the payment. We can see IPs, MAC addresses, and other sensitive information with forensic tools. Yet even if you inform them of this, they will simply continue to lie. You will be astounded at how much wealth someone can have and still demand to claim back the most nominal sums of cash. Presentations of evidence against them, exhaustive reasoning, no effect. It makes your brain spin - they just lie !

A primary objective of my job is to challenge customers and call them out on their lying. This is to prevent them from being scammed. How come you suddenly buying expensive gift cards for yourself? Why are you sending half your cash to a post-Soviet satellite? If you are really talking to Elon Musk online, why would they need even more money? You may think this is funny, but dealing with scam victims is a nightmare sometimes. We have regular training and coaching, though essentially all it really is is a crapshoot of asking constant questions and hoping you can catch them in their lies. (And no, it is not just the grannies. I lost the company £50k for a successful IT millionaire of an SME because they thought sending their cash to Pakistan was a good idea to "keep it safe")

When it comes to lying customers, if you look around, this is a problem as far as you can see. Customer expectations are so disturbingly high that they truly believe they're able to lie their faces off. Companies have no protection from getting dragged into long, exhausting and expensive fraudulent claims. And there's no discussion on this. It's a major issue, yet you simply aren't allowed to talk about the problem of lying customers.

Just because you are contacting a successful business it does not give you the right to lie. Nor does it give you the right to make meaningless complaints and demand manager callbacks all because you won't stop lying. We all need a discussion on the extremely forbidden problem - the problem of lying customers.

 

[Newchodge]

My job is a service position in bank security. My calls and cases are varied: sometimes it's garden variety stuff, like a request for a replacement bank card. Other times it is victims that have lost their life savings and are balling their eyes out. (It's a privilege to help in that sad moment, but did you really think it was a good idea to move your life savings into the Philippines because your local police told you so?)

So that is the normal stuff. But some cases can be frustrating to the extreme. Why? Because the customer is lying. They will buy stuff like you would usually then call up and claim the money back. Their Amazon Prime membership is fraud. Their cheap counterfeit Nikes are a scam. Their purchases on Paypal are fraud because they've been hacked. They'll even shop at Sainsbury's then claim the money back. People truly expect to be refunded for what they have received or signed up for.

Are these the scabbies? Nope! Wealthy professionals and couples will call up and say they've been a victim of fraud over as little as £5. We can see they've received an OTP to their device, or use the app to authorise the payment. We can see IPs, MAC addresses, and other sensitive information with forensic tools. Yet even if you inform them of this, they will simply continue to lie. You will be astounded at how much wealth someone can have and still demand to claim back the most nominal sums of cash. Presentations of evidence against them, exhaustive reasoning, no effect. It makes your brain spin - they just lie !

A primary objective of my job is to challenge customers and call them out on their lying. This is to prevent them from being scammed. How come you suddenly buying expensive gift cards for yourself? Why are you sending half your cash to a post-Soviet satellite? If you are really talking to Elon Musk online, why would they need even more money? You may think this is funny, but dealing with scam victims is a nightmare sometimes. We have regular training and coaching, though essentially all it really is is a crapshoot of asking constant questions and hoping you can catch them in their lies. (And no, it is not just the grannies. I lost the company £50k for a successful IT millionaire of an SME because they thought sending their cash to Pakistan was a good idea to "keep it safe")

When it comes to lying customers, if you look around, this is a problem as far as you can see. Customer expectations are so disturbingly high that they truly believe they're able to lie their faces off. Companies have no protection from getting dragged into long, exhausting and expensive fraudulent claims. And there's no discussion on this. It's a major issue, yet you simply aren't allowed to talk about the problem of lying customers.

Just because you are contacting a successful business it does not give you the right to lie. Nor does it give you the right to make meaningless complaints and demand manager callbacks all because you won't stop lying. We all need a discussion on the extremely forbidden problem - the problem of lying customers.

That is a problem. Is it worse or better than the problem of lying delivery companies. or lying suppliers, or scammers?

 

[Mark T Jones]

If your business depends on lying, you don't have a business

 

[leathers]

Lying suppliers (dropshippers, counterfeiters, or incompetent service) are easy. You come to us and file a dispute. We can usually sort that out. If they are really that bad, then they will have to deal.

But when the customer has bought or signed up to something then comes back to the bank and lies, that is a load of crap to deal with. You have to respect consumer rights, corporate ethics, all the legalities, and refund them. Then when they get retrospectively charged and come back yelling their face off. They drag you into pits of lies and there is nothing I can do, because they knew what they did, but keep lying.

Scammers are another animal. Sometimes a customer proudly says "It'll never happen to me". Those I like to break a little, because I have seen all colours and creeds of people obliterated by a 10 minute call from an imposter. And we can't get the money back. I throw out examples of this to lying customers to try them to stop lying, but it's like playing chess with a golden retriever.

 

[leathers]

If your business depends on lying, you don't have a business

HAHAHHA! The bastards that hit my victims, they will print out this post and carve their teeth to this statement. Slowly.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The world is essentially corrupt...

Not consumer or business related but I've never quite recovered from hearing a conversation amongst several female work colleagues about a supermarket scam - 'doing a Klinsman when slipping on a wayward Grape'. Just about to get up, uninjured, the woman's husband told her to stay put - so they could put a claim in. He was a copper in the Met! Another had the brother in law drive his dust cart into her worthless car so the proceeds would allow an upgrade!

 

[Mark T Jones]

HAHAHHA! The bastards that hit my victims, they will print out this post and carve their teeth to this statement. Slowly.

I agree

If only i had a clue what you are on about

 

[leathers]

If only i had a clue what you are on about

My poor spring chicken. Let's break it down for you shall we?

1. Person feels like they don't want to pay for something they bought, or is being scammed out of their brains.

2. Calls the bank (me).

3. Lies.

4. Ends up poorer.

5. Calls up the bank again and complains about being poorer.

6. Lies.

7. Ends up losing even more money.

Not sure how to make it more comprehensive mate. People think that a phone is a licence to push someone around. It's repulsive, and furthermore they always lose. The only gain is the "goodwill gesture" of £20 or so when someone calls them out on their crap.

The biggest risk is not the scrubs or lowlifes. To their credit, they tolerate it. It's middle-aged professionals and business owners (you) who have made a mistake: shared their apple pay with their daughter, danced with a hooker, bought a drill for 99p but don't want the subscription. Instead of honouring it, you come back to the bank and claim crime. Maybe one day we will get to have some research into the forbidden land of the lying customer and how businesses should deal.

 

[WaveJumper]

Well I will go one further and say that they have excellent examples to follow (not saying I agree so keep your shirts or blouses on) lying politicians, lying press oh and the corrupt Bank of England who have been up to their necks in some very shady goings on

So yep its no real surprise that others are just following in their footsteps especially when it seems so easy to get away with it.

And I never even mentioned the banks and BBL ...... ops that just slipped out

 

[UKSBD]

My poor spring chicken. Let's break it down for you shall we?

1. Person feels like they don't want to pay for something they bought, or is being scammed out of their brains.

2. Calls the bank (me).

3. Lies.

4. Ends up poorer.

5. Calls up the bank again and complains about being poorer.

6. Lies.

7. Ends up losing even more money.

Not sure how to make it more comprehensive mate. People think that a phone is a licence to push someone around. It's repulsive, and furthermore they always lose. The only gain is the "goodwill gesture" of £20 or so when someone calls them out on their crap.

The biggest risk is not the scrubs or lowlifes. To their credit, they tolerate it. It's middle-aged professionals and business owners (you) who have made a mistake: shared their apple pay with their daughter, danced with a hooker, bought a drill for 99p but don't want the subscription. Instead of honouring it, you come back to the bank and claim crime. Maybe one day we will get to have some research into the forbidden land of the lying customer and how businesses should deal.

I would think a lot of the time it's not about the money but the principal and not feeling silly.

They have done something stupid, feel they have been scammed, got aggrieved and are looking for someone else to blame so as not to feel silly.

Sign up to a limited period subscription to get a bargain, forget to cancel the subscription, end up paying a lot more than if just buying it in the 1st place - That's the banks fault, feel a bit better about it now because ranted at someone over the phone to say it's the banks fault.

May have swayed from the truth when ranting, that doesn't matter though, it's only a bank and if I do get any compensation, I've got one over on the bank.

 

[Mark T Jones]

My poor spring chicken. Let's break it down for you shall we?

1. Person feels like they don't want to pay for something they bought, or is being scammed out of their brains.

2. Calls the bank (me).

3. Lies.

4. Ends up poorer.

5. Calls up the bank again and complains about being poorer.

6. Lies.

7. Ends up losing even more money.

Not sure how to make it more comprehensive mate. People think that a phone is a licence to push someone around. It's repulsive, and furthermore they always lose. The only gain is the "goodwill gesture" of £20 or so when someone calls them out on their crap.

The biggest risk is not the scrubs or lowlifes. To their credit, they tolerate it. It's middle-aged professionals and business owners (you) who have made a mistake: shared their apple pay with their daughter, danced with a hooker, bought a drill for 99p but don't want the subscription. Instead of honouring it, you come back to the bank and claim crime. Maybe one day we will get to have some research into the forbidden land of the lying customer and how businesses should deal.

I'm (half) joking. This is essentially the business I'm in - managing expectations and filtering facts from bullshit.

Every application, without fail has an element of bullshit, my decision is whether they are just optimistic or absolute chances.

The answer lies in asking questions and gathering information. Chances and amateurs will quickly disappear to find a more gullible or desperate target.

Sophisticated crooks will be more persistent, but most will also go where it's easier.

 

[fisicx]

@leathers - not really sure what you are expecting here on UKBF. Is it confirmation that fraud is prevalent? Or are you hoping for some sort of solution? Or do you just want to vent your spleen?

 

[Paul Carmen]

The banks and financial institutions have not exactly been the customers friend in the UK; in the consumer world mis selling mortgages (endowment), PPI (plevin), car finance (DCAs) etc.

In the business world, banks supposedly helping struggling businesses have potentially forced them under (BSUs). In the last 18 months, over 150k UK business bank accounts have been closed by banks, many without any good reason.

The banks don't care about customers, many give shocking service and support. They care about their bottom line and shareholders. I'm not condoning the behaviour of people trying to commit fraud against banks; but banks are seen as faceless corporations, who invest mainly in oil and other high return areas that are bad for the planet, and were bailed out by governments around the world for reckless lending and speculation, causing a global recession. So you won't get much sympathy from many business owners...

 

[wayzgoose]

Lying suppliers (dropshippers, counterfeiters, or incompetent service)

I resent that inference !

 

[Mark T Jones]

The banks and financial institutions have not exactly been the customers friend in the UK; in the consumer world mis selling mortgages (endowment), PPI (plevin), car finance (DCAs) etc.

In the business world, banks supposedly helping struggling businesses have potentially forced them under (BSUs). In the last 18 months, over 150k UK business bank accounts have been closed by banks, many without any good reason.

The banks don't care about customers, many give shocking service and support. They care about their bottom line and shareholders. I'm not condoning the behaviour of people trying to commit fraud against banks; but banks are seen as faceless corporations, who invest mainly in oil and other high return areas that are bad for the planet, and were bailed out by governments around the world for reckless lending and speculation, causing a global recession. So you won't get much sympathy from many business owners...

Given that I'm (arguably) a competitor to mainstream banks, I should be jumping on the bank-knocking bandwagon.

In reality i think they are being made scapegoats for a number of things - Rishi almost said as much when he first announced covid loans.

DCA was entirely about mis-selling by motor dealers - the banks were pursued as accessories by ambulance-chasers for the simple reason they are a soft touch for compo. Similar with endowments

 

[WaveJumper]

A gave up with banks years ago when I had to wait over four weeks for the Bank Manager to be in the area before we could have a meeting.

 

[DontAsk]

I used to play bridge with my bank manager

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Dont put professional people on a pedestal The real high value people are here on this site . They dont have time to mess around arguing with the kids working at the bank . The have a very high money to time ratio. Their time budget is a critical priority

I wont even put time into analysing the customers of a bank and I am only a junior member on here

 

[Ian J]

Years ago before the internet I used to work with a bloke that would take his wife out to dinner then later write a letter claiming that the dinner was terrible in the expectation of either getting his money back or a free meal. It was like a hobby with him.

 

[Socio South West]

A gave up with banks years ago when I had to wait over four weeks for the Bank Manager to be in the area before we could have a meeting.

Bank manager? What is this?
You mean they were having a new spotty faced kid trained in the branch who could punch numbers into a computer which invariably said 'no' I think!

My experience very similar to yours.

 

[leathers]

They have done something stupid, feel they have been scammed, got aggrieved and are looking for someone else to blame so as not to feel silly.

Yes, but that's not my problem. We are here to deal with extortion, sextortion, people imposing as their bank then moving it to faraway countries. Those are scams. However, your subscription to Netflix that you don't want to pay for now? Not a scam. Yet people will simply demand so anyways.

People think that scam victims are idiots, morons, or the general dregs of humanity. (Admittedly yes.) But I also have dealt with small business owners, police officers, millionaires, even descendants of royalty who have been scammed. One of the victims I worked with was a wealthy and highly qualified doctor. They truly believed they needed to shift their cash to India because an imposter told them. So they called us up and lied. The scammer won.

The solution is really simple: customers shouldn't lie to companies. It should be as easy as that. Except there is a culture out there where lying to companies is okay, and it ends up costing everyone a lot of money.

I resent that inference !

Hold your fire: I stick up for dropshippers in my job. Other case handlers will not. Many customers want to claim their late package is fraud even with experienced internet businesses. Customers can be ruthless on trustpilot et. al. and claim small companies are scamming them for the slightest defect or mistake. This is when you have to educate the budding claimant and explain just because there's a mark on your marvel figurine or your sexy underwear is late, no that does not mean it is a scam.

@leathers - not really sure what you are expecting here on UKBF. Is it confirmation that fraud is prevalent? Or are you hoping for some sort of solution? Or do you just want to vent your spleen?

A bit of all I suppose. What is more British than having the odd moan? Complaining is as English as saying sorry a lot and sausage rolls. You have complained (about my thread) yet offered no remedy: how typically Anglo-Saxon.

Dont put professional people on a pedestal The real high value people are here on this site . They dont have time to mess around arguing with the kids working at the bank . The have a very high money to time ratio. Their time budget is a critical priority

I wont even put time into analysing the customers of a bank and I am only a junior member on here

Yep, everyone runs their mouth then one day they get cleaned out. It is brutal. We are not children, so don't call us that. Don't have the time to learn about scams? Make the time. Criminals care about their own enterprise and tactics too, they specifically prey on the ignorant. And when they catch you (which they will) don't lie to us. And then you will, and then we will have to try and catch you out somehow.

 

[fisicx]

The solution is really simple: customers shouldn't lie to companies.

I agree. But they do. In the same way as many people lie to everybody else. All the time.

I'd suggest your bank needs to change their procedures so these people never get as far as your desk. It's not complicated to validate and vet then refuse.

You have complained (about my thread) yet offered no remedy: how typically Anglo-Saxon.

And that's because you didn't indicate what you wanted. If you had asked for ideas on how to fix this then appropriate responses would have been forthcoming.

 

[leathers]

I agree. But they do. In the same way as many people lie to everybody else. All the time.

I'd suggest your bank needs to change their procedures so these people never get as far as your desk. It's not complicated to validate and vet then refuse.

You haven't taken much time to think about what you are posting. We are experts in scam and fraud prevention. This is what we do. If it was as simple as applying enforcement, I wouldn't have a job. My job is very busy. This is because customers lie.
Ironically you have fallen into the same trap - your expectations are so high that you impatiently expect your financial institutions to magically solve everything. Criminals precisely take advantage of this. They know people don't take banks seriously. Maybe I'll be handling your case sometime soon.

And that's because you didn't indicate what you wanted. If you had asked for ideas on how to fix this then appropriate responses would have been forthcoming.

Read the OP again. It concludes clearly: a discussion on the problem of lying customers. I'm satisfied right now. It's not like replacing a lightbulb. There's no immediate fix. There is just the culture wherein it is acceptable for customers to lie.

 

[fisicx]

No. I’m saying the financial institutions could manage the initial verification differently. You filter out those who want a refund because they don’t want to pay for Disney or whatever. Your post suggested you have to deal with liars. Change the process so the liars never get as far as you.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

There is just the culture wherein it is acceptable for customers to lie.

Our entire world is fixated on getting one over on someone else, normally those in authority.

Top Boy, Breaking Bad, Ozark and multiple other TV programmes, all featured wronguns who were portrayed as folk heroes. The Krays, Bonnie and Clyde, Pablo Escobar all portrayed as good eggs.

Petty crime, if you can even call it that, is considered ok by the majority

 

[leathers]

Top Boy, Breaking Bad, Ozark and multiple other TV programmes, all featured wronguns who were portrayed as folk heroes. The Krays, Bonnie and Clyde, Pablo Escobar all portrayed as good eggs.

Petty crime, if you can even call it that, is considered ok by the majority

Yes but that is fiction. What about the Godfather or Fight Club. Entertaining, yet essentially nonsense. ("Pablo Escobar as a good egg" ???)

If you possess a sliver of common sense you know not to lie to a financial organisation. Why? Because the minute you lie, you are placing yourself at risk. Why is this not obvious? No company needs to tolerate constant liars.

No. I’m saying the financial institutions could manage the initial verification differently. You filter out those who want a refund because they don’t want to pay for Disney or whatever. Your post suggested you have to deal with liars. Change the process so the liars never get as far as you.

Sure. Except, when you call up and absolutely demand your Puregym subscription is fraud (because you don't want to pay for it), or something your daughter paid with on their apple phone (with your shared card) you get just more irate when we say this is not possible.

I wanna raise a complaint, I wanna speak to a manager. They are human beings who know well disruption is an advantage, and our commitment to their wants is a disadvantage. That's how lying customers win.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

The problem of lying Bank Employees

1. The bank salespeople who claim they can cold call to sell their crap because I have an account with their bank. Strangely, a complaint to the ICO resulted in no more calls...

2. The bank employee who claimed I was out of time to claim a refund for a package which never arrived and which the supplier admitted had be stolen enroute, but supplier failed to refund. When challenged the bank employee claimed they calculated the time from the date of order, contrary to what was publicly stated in their policy, published on their own website (and Visa, where the policy originated). When this was pointed out, bank employee offered a "goodwill" refund without apology or admission he had lied...

I could go on...

I guess all bank employees lie...

 

[Newchodge]

The point is, surely, that people lie because it benefits them. If those who are lied to simply refused to allow themselves to be bullied into allowing the liar to benefit and, indeed, could find a way to make lying disadvantageous, most people would not lie.

 

[fisicx]

Which was my point. Pre-filtering would weed out those who bully and lie. The problems seems to be a set of bank procedures that allow the liars to get there own way.

Also worth noting the frustrations people have even getting through to a real person. It’s all bots and automation that never seems to understand the question.

 

[Karimbo]

because they've never really had pushback and told without mincing words that lying on an application is consdiered fraud and may result in prosection and criminal record.

They can file a chargeback and the bank will in most causes just grant it. If the customer is lying the bank wont really call them out, they will need to be tactful and just deny the chargeback and not take it any further.

 

[tony84]

I used to work in customer services for a bank.
I have probably seen 99% of what you see.

The money that has been sent to your sons bank like all the times before isnt legitimate?
No.
Can you go to the police and get a crime reference number and we will investige
..... erm.... no its ok. I will sort it out.

Thought so.


I didnt apply for this credit card so its not my fault I spent £3k on it.
Do you have a driving license or passport?
Yes.
Can you send over a scan so we can compare your signature on the declaration form to that on your ID...
Ohhhh actually, I have just remembered...

 

[Karimbo]

I used to work in customer services for a bank.
I have probably seen 99% of what you see.

The money that has been sent to your sons bank like all the times before isnt legitimate?
No.
Can you go to the police and get a crime reference number and we will investige
..... erm.... no its ok. I will sort it out.

Thought so.


I didnt apply for this credit card so its not my fault I spent £3k on it.
Do you have a driving license or passport?
Yes.
Can you send over a scan so we can compare your signature on the declaration form to that on your ID...
Ohhhh actually, I have just remembered...

shouldnt you just let them put that claim in writing, and make them a formal declaration, in writing and then investigate the claim and put a CIFAS marker on them.

 

[tony84]

I imagine it wasnt worth the hassle.
Pull them up on their lies and it ends there and then, go down the route of putting it in writing, filling it with CIFAS, getting a complaint and then going to the ombudsman (which costs the bank I think £500 a pop).

This was back in 2005 I think, I was on maybe £8 an hour. I would deal with say 20 calls an hour in general customer services. It cost a quid to get rid of the customer trying it on.

Go down the route you suggest and it becomes 10x that even if they do not go to the ombudsman. And then the bad reputation of the person calling the bank to their friends but omitting most of the facts.

 

[FreddyG]

Given that I'm (arguably) a competitor to mainstream banks, I should be jumping on the bank-knocking bandwagon.

Well, in that case Mark, do allow me to do that for you.

22+ years ago I bought a piece of equipment for about £80,000. It was some daft odd figure with pennies and bits at the end. Then I got a call from the suppliers in Manchester - my new toy was ready, so I told them that I would come and collect it.

I had previously been with a private bank where money could be moved in nano-seconds, but we opened an account with an ordinary High Street bank who claimed that transferring 80k could take a week or so.

"The hell it will!" I said, so they offered a "Lightning Transfer" and wanted £20 for that service. I was very annoyed as I had very large sums in various accounts with them - and they did not want to do something that I knew they could do and do it instantly. They were obviously lying.

In the end, the manager of the branch gave up and agreed to the transfer without charging me and I could go and pick up our new toy.

About two weeks later, there was a cry from our office. It sounded like a barefoot dancer had just stepped on a tin-tack. It was Mrs M from accounts who found that £20 was missing from the Manchester payment. So now we had lying and stealing. It took the threat of police action to get that manager to refund the £20.

I could go on and on about banks cheating. And not just their customers, but even their own employees, especially the highest paid traders. A guy I knew was offered a generous 7% commission on some totally obscure gold derivatives, part of the Japan/NY/London carry trade. But when the sums involved ran into millions, the bank didn't want to pay him and even threatened him with legal action if he tried to collect or even try to leave them. (He got most of it in the end, but it took over a year!)

Banks get fined regularly and for billions for manipulating markets and the paper-gold market in particular. The Deutsche had to be raided by 200 armed policemen in Frankfurt for money laundering. I get a newsletter five times a week just listing crimes committed by banks (though mostly in NY).

So yes, we know that some customers lie, but they do not do so structurally.

 

[tony84]

Well, in that case Mark, do allow me to do that for you.

22+ years ago I bought a piece of equipment for about £80,000. It was some daft odd figure with pennies and bits at the end. Then I got a call from the suppliers in Manchester - my new toy was ready, so I told them that I would come and collect it.

I had previously been with a private bank where money could be moved in nano-seconds, but we opened an account with an ordinary High Street bank who claimed that transferring 80k could take a week or so.

"The hell it will!" I said, so they offered a "Lightning Transfer" and wanted £20 for that service. I was very annoyed as I had very large sums in various accounts with them - and they did not want to do something that I knew they could do and do it instantly. They were obviously lying.


About two weeks later, there was a cry from our office. It sounded like a barefoot dancer had just stepped on a tin-tack. It was Mrs M from accounts who found that £20 was missing from the Manchester payment. So now we had lying and stealing. It took the threat of police action to get that manager to refund the £20.

This was/is called a CHAPS payment and did incur a cost of £20-35 - solicitors still charge it to this day in the mortgage world.
I used to work for RBS/Natwest up until around 2006-7. If you wanted a same day transfer, it was £30 for a CHAPS. If you were happy to wait, it would be up to 4 working days for a BACS payment (which was free).

You now have faster payments which I think is free up to around £25-30,000.

We would waive the fee in certain cases, typically our mistake or if we had good customers where we would earn more than the £20-30 we were covering as that fee still had to be paid.

You say it was stolen, it could have been an oversight/forgotten, you are a far better man than I am if you have never made a mistake or forgotten.

 

[FreddyG]

We would waive the fee in certain cases, typically our mistake or if we had good customers where we would earn more than the £20-30 we were covering as that fee still had to be paid.

You say it was stolen, it could have been an oversight/forgotten, you are a far better man than I am if you have never made a mistake or forgotten.

No, it was overt stealing. The transfer was supposed to be £X0,000 and £X0,000 minus £20 was deposited in the supplier's account, but the full amount was deducted from ours.

If I have upper-six-figure amounts in various accounts with some minor village branch of a large bank, for the local guy to hide behind the skirts of the bank's T&Cs and whine about "Well those are our rules I'm afraid." is absurd.

The bank gets to use all those deposits as collateral for trading multiples of those sums and even against their own customers, yet they find it necessary to charge for what is in effect an electronic transfer that takes milliseconds.

And of course, if someone is prepared to steal £20, they are just as likely to steal £20,000.

There are two books that everybody involved in banking (or even just using a bank account) should read - "When Money Dies" by Adam Fergusson and "The Trading Game" by Gary Stevenson.

When you have read those two books, you will understand what is happening today and why gold is setting record highs.

 

[tony84]

People do not know what they do not know...