The End Of UKIP
- Thread starter Paul Kelly ICHYB
- Start date
It was actually the British people that got their way, though agreed Nigel was the catalyst.
I see no reason to disband, there are a couple of years to ensure that Brexit goes as it should, and there are UKIP councillors all over the country. GE 2020, if it's not before, could be rather interesting given the complete disconnect between the Labour Party and its voters.
I see no reason to disband, there are a couple of years to ensure that Brexit goes as it should, and there are UKIP councillors all over the country. GE 2020, if it's not before, could be rather interesting given the complete disconnect between the Labour Party and its voters.
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It was either CNN or Fox News that announced him as the head of the Leave campaign, I'm sure Farage had everything to do with that.
He can rightly claim to have forced the referendum issue, it was only the very real threat of UKIP taking Tory votes and letting Labour into power that led to Cameron committing to it.
But the vast majority of UKIP non-EU policies are terrifying to any liberal-minded bod. He'll have us all singing in Church on a Sunday and watching Mary Poppins like your life depended on it
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Two definitions for Manifesto....
1. A manifesto is a published verbal declaration of the intentions, motives, or views of the issuer, be it an individual, group, political party or government.
2. A load of bulls**t we think people want to hear that we can ignore then we get in power.
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I'm not so sure. For many apart from the diehard Ukippers they are a one trick pony and that is to cut down immigration and now that the seeds of leaving the EC have been sown I think that most of the UKIP voters in the last general election that deserted their traditional parties will now go back to their spiritual homes
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Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon
I think UKIP is now going to collapse and vanish. There is a number of reasons for this
1. As Ian points out they were very much a one trick pony and that trick is now pointless.
2. He has already been told he is not welcome in the Brexit team so can now only really shout in scream in Brussels
3. The supporter base is going to vanish - the referendum is done
4. We are about to see a power struggle in UKIP where Neil Hamilton will over throw Farage (If you dont follow Welsh politics Neil Hamilton has taken over UKIP Wales and is itchy for more)
There was a reason Farage was so loud on the morning of the results. He was trying to talk himself in to a job by claiming all the glory.
1. As Ian points out they were very much a one trick pony and that trick is now pointless.
2. He has already been told he is not welcome in the Brexit team so can now only really shout in scream in Brussels
3. The supporter base is going to vanish - the referendum is done
4. We are about to see a power struggle in UKIP where Neil Hamilton will over throw Farage (If you dont follow Welsh politics Neil Hamilton has taken over UKIP Wales and is itchy for more)
There was a reason Farage was so loud on the morning of the results. He was trying to talk himself in to a job by claiming all the glory.
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MBE1
The country needs Farage more than ever with the moves to try and overturn the referendum result, and even worse the MP's who preach democracy but do not wish to practice it.
Already the nation is being told we must remain part of the EU single market and accept free movement of people, that is not what people voted for, the whole Brexit campaign was run on taking back control, and a major plank was to decide who came to and from the country to suit it's needs, not a continuing of the old policy.
It shows yet again how out of touch politicians are in this country with it's electorate, Ken Clarkes remarks in the HoC today were disgraceful IMO.
UKIP might become a new major party, since Labour is intent on destroying itself and the Tories say one thing but mean something else, the whole lot are useless IMO.
Already the nation is being told we must remain part of the EU single market and accept free movement of people, that is not what people voted for, the whole Brexit campaign was run on taking back control, and a major plank was to decide who came to and from the country to suit it's needs, not a continuing of the old policy.
It shows yet again how out of touch politicians are in this country with it's electorate, Ken Clarkes remarks in the HoC today were disgraceful IMO.
UKIP might become a new major party, since Labour is intent on destroying itself and the Tories say one thing but mean something else, the whole lot are useless IMO.
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Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon
As a leaver I think Farage is the last person we need. He brings the baggage of racism with him giving the remainers a key argument to their cause (it doesnt matter if you believe he is racist or not, that is the public view). If his face is on it then the racism accusations will keep flowing and the flames will get higher. I believe this is why he kept such a low profile during the build up - he knew the baggage he would bring would be bad for the cause.
What the process needs is a good strong Labour leader that is capable of fighting for things (unlike Corbyn) - fingers crossed we get one (BTW, not a committed labour support but this needs to be firmly balanced)
What the process needs is a good strong Labour leader that is capable of fighting for things (unlike Corbyn) - fingers crossed we get one (BTW, not a committed labour support but this needs to be firmly balanced)
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If that is going to be the case then I can forsee whoever is tasked with negotiating our release will receive short shrift from the voting public as well as his own MPs and no-one will take the job if it means political suicide.
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ShirleyM
The future doesn't just depend on our politicians, it also depends on what happens in the EU. If they go true to form they will demand more EU, and the Express and Polish newspapers are already reporting acceleration and creation of the superstate in order to lock countries into the EU.
Will the people of the EU allow themselves to be forced into a superstate against their will and lose their countries? This will be the final test. If the people of the EU refuse then the EU must reform, or die.
Will the people of the EU allow themselves to be forced into a superstate against their will and lose their countries? This will be the final test. If the people of the EU refuse then the EU must reform, or die.
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Why or Why do you keep on with the negatives and not just live with it and try and think of some positives about freedom from oversea's rule.
I am Chris Ashdown from Great Yarmouth I voted to leave for democracy, that is the belief that we can control our country far better than being part of a failing community which has no interest in changing for the better. in 12 months time of 30 years i will still admit it, and i do believe the country will be better outside the EU
I am Chris Ashdown from Great Yarmouth I voted to leave for democracy, that is the belief that we can control our country far better than being part of a failing community which has no interest in changing for the better. in 12 months time of 30 years i will still admit it, and i do believe the country will be better outside the EU
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Well said Chris but the referendum vote was just the first battle in a prolonged war.
MPs are being lobbied hard to ignore the referendum result, it was an 'advisory' and non-binding referendum after all.
Left of centre parties are encouraging members to sign up to the second referendum petition, the liberal media are ALL reporting the negatives of Brexit with the BBC leading the charge, and we have MPs like Ken Clarke and David Lammy publicly stating that the referendum result should be ignored.
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Well logically the party to lead a independent UK has to be UKIP. And with Labour imploding and the Conservatives running around like headless chickens it gives UKIP the ideal opportunity to come up with a sensible manifesto and in four years who knows. If nothing else this last week has shown you can't take anything for granted.
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I've said it before, there is no material difference to the faux outrage being encouraged now to what was spewed out by the same profile of people after the last general election.
You could replace them all with a 4 year old child screaming "ITS NOT FAIR!!" after he's been made to sit at the table and finish his dinner
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MBE1
The remain campaign is still in full flow, look at the news and it is all doom and gloom, superich ex pats like Branson, telling us what a bad mistake this is, absolutely no balance to the reporting. All done because it usually works, wear people down, drip by drip.
All this talking the country down is a self fulfilling prophecy, we all new there would be an immediate shock to the markets, they have been nowhere near as bad as most forecast, in a couple of weeks things should settle down.
Stange hardly anyone reports on the 30,000 economic migrants crossing the med this week alone and the leaked German French plan to speed up a EU superstate. The news channels and papers need to start reporting all the news, not just the project fear agenda.
All this talking the country down is a self fulfilling prophecy, we all new there would be an immediate shock to the markets, they have been nowhere near as bad as most forecast, in a couple of weeks things should settle down.
Stange hardly anyone reports on the 30,000 economic migrants crossing the med this week alone and the leaked German French plan to speed up a EU superstate. The news channels and papers need to start reporting all the news, not just the project fear agenda.
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Y'all screeched about how undemocratic the EU was, yet clearly didn't understand how it works, and now you're doing it about the democratic system we have here.
It's almost like as far as you're concerned, 'democracy' simply means 'do what I want'.
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Then I would have to suggest that you are quite isolated from the wrath of those who wanted nothing to do with this deranged experiment in the first place.
That's not just those who voted Remain, it's those who didn't vote, who were never asked if they wanted a referendum at all, and those who are old enough to understand, but not yet old enough to vote. That's a lot of people, against your Leave voters.
Don't get me wrong here, deep down, I don't give a flying toss about this, I'm just a dispassionate observer. I'm alright, Jack. No kids, no mortgage, no big expenses, I'll do just fine, no matter what.
I don't have enough empathy to care what happens to any one else.
I'm just letting you know that the Leave camp has irritated an awful lot of people, in ways that it doesn't yet seem to be aware of.
Rip me apart, like a pack of dogs. Like I say, I'm dispassionate about it.
Then take a good look at the way the Leave camp rips apart anyone who suggests they may be wrong, and wonder why they don't want to engage with you.........
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MBE1
My idea of democracy is our representatives carrying out the electorates wishes, in the case of the EU ref many have already tried to undermine the vote, determined to correct what they see as a mistake in the outcome, what's your idea of democracy?
[QUOTE
Rip me apart, like a pack of dogs. Like I say, I'm dispassionate about it.
Then take a good look at the way the Leave camp rips apart anyone who suggests they may be wrong, and wonder why they don't want to engage with you.........[/QUOTE]
I think you will find passions have run high, but the remain camp are the major complainers, they have a right to complain, but they do not have a right to undermine the vote by trying to get a new one run just because they lost.
Nothing has changed from before the vote, both sides made exagerated claims, most grown ups could see through the bull, nothing new has come to light, we all expected a reaction to the leave vote, we've had it, things seem to be beginning to stabalise, but there might be some further choppy waters until we have leadership again. Leadership I would point out promised by the leader of the remain campaign, the PM.
Most of the current problems relate to the PM resigning, I understand why he did it, but he completely walked away from all his responsibilities.
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Thank you for proving my point.
Of course they are the major complainers and they have legitimate complaints about the vote. With Farage himself saying a 48/52 split would not mean the end of it, putting the vote into the context it deserves - that of any advisory referenda, which is to say advisory - is a reasonable request.
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ShirleyM
Personally, I agree with Farage. The Remain had the power of the government, the civil service, big banks, big business, and all the 'establishment' behind it. It also used taxpayers money to issue propaganda to every home in the country. Cameron was currying favours from big business even before he completed his 'reform' negotiations. There has been plenty of bias on every main TV channel and the 'bad' news from the EU has been withheld.
It wasn't a fair fight, but we won it anyway so that removes any hard feelings that were generated by the imbalance.
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ShirleyM
There is a big question mark about 'expert' opinion from people/institutions that can have pressure placed on them by government, big banks, big business, and all those who benefit from the EU.
There are also big question marks over reports and surveys that only calculate the 'worst case scenario' of Brexit, without 'best case' comparisons, and also failing to calculate any of the risks of Remaining.
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No, there isn't. Just because you can tip your tinfoil hat at what you perceive to be conflicts of interest does not mean the expertise of those groups and individuals is lessened or removed. You're still pushing the anti-intellectual, anti-evidence argument.
It's not for one side to argue against themselves, but to defend their assertions from any counter arguments. The Leave camp had its assertions taken apart from every direction: the opposition, the commision, the media, the public, and even some of their own campaigners hopping ship because of the dishonesty. However in counter argument to the Remain assertions the best they could muster was to shout "you're exaggerrating!" and "pffff, who even listens to experts!?", which, you may or may not be able to tell, do not constitute actual evidence based arguments.
I forgot to ask, do you also agree with him that a 48/52 split should not be the end of it?
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The Leave campaign seized upon the one expert opinion that agreed with them, in amongst the sea of expertise that opposed them, it's hardly a surprise they'll clamour around a story that isn't bad news in amongst all of the stories which are.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Oh no, wait, that's the opposite of a national crisis
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