Are you sure?
You have come to somewhere where experienced people are giving you their thoughts and advice for free and you do not like what they are saying. If you want proper, qualified advice, use a solicitor. you will then see that they will agree with what you are saying, probably lose the case and charge you for the pleasure!
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I haven't read PayPal's T&Cs and I am not about to.. However, why are they unlawfully withholding your money? Do the T&Cs state the reasons that they will withhold your money or is it entirely at their discretion (or some other term). It sounds like you are representing yourself, so you are going to have to justify, by reference to the T&Cs why they are withholding your money unlawfully (in breach of the T&Cs).
PayPal are contesting that the court do not have jurisdction to hear the case, presumably in the basis that the contract is concluded in Luxembourg (or wherever they are based) and there is nothing in the T&Cs that give explicity jurisdiction to the courts of England and Wales. However, from memory, this is a consumer contract (as you weren't selling as a power/professional seller), so, given it is an EU contract, the courts may assume jurisdiction.. however, I have no idea on this and you will have to look it up. Otherwise, you are going to have to understand why they are contesting jurisdiction and, if the courts will hear your side of the story (not even a given), you will have your reasons why.
Note, this is not a defence or a counterclaim (why would they counterclaim as you have not caused them loss?). If you lose,, they then may seek to have their costs paid for by you (not sure this applies to the County Court, though).. You mention small claims - I am assuming County Court.
Best of luck - I think you're going to need it (unless the court has jurisdiction and you can, as the complainant, assert why them witholding your money breaches the contract or potentially manifestly unfair).
You can cancel proceedings at any time (in response to your previous question): https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/cre...-and-answers/how-do-I-stop-a-court-claim.aspx
PayPal are contesting that the court do not have jurisdction to hear the case, presumably in the basis that the contract is concluded in Luxembourg (or wherever they are based) and there is nothing in the T&Cs that give explicity jurisdiction to the courts of England and Wales. However, from memory, this is a consumer contract (as you weren't selling as a power/professional seller), so, given it is an EU contract, the courts may assume jurisdiction.. however, I have no idea on this and you will have to look it up. Otherwise, you are going to have to understand why they are contesting jurisdiction and, if the courts will hear your side of the story (not even a given), you will have your reasons why.
Note, this is not a defence or a counterclaim (why would they counterclaim as you have not caused them loss?). If you lose,, they then may seek to have their costs paid for by you (not sure this applies to the County Court, though).. You mention small claims - I am assuming County Court.
Best of luck - I think you're going to need it (unless the court has jurisdiction and you can, as the complainant, assert why them witholding your money breaches the contract or potentially manifestly unfair).
You can cancel proceedings at any time (in response to your previous question): https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/cre...-and-answers/how-do-I-stop-a-court-claim.aspx
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Yes... You speak to them and agree on the way forward and once performed, you cancel the case (see above post)
Or you can try a mediation service first - no idea of cost: https://www.smallclaimscourtgenie.co.uk/small-claims-mediation-service/
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You could still end up having to pay their legal bill.
This case was never going to win. They even told you the papers were presented to the wrong place.
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Are you taking them to court because you can't find the right address? No. You want them to pay money that you think they are withholding illegally.
They're not withholding it illegally, therefore a court may consider the claim unreasonable.
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Unlikely. In PayPal's view you don't have a case, so nothing to settle. The only settlement they'll be likely to accept is you dropping the case - which you can do without talking to them.
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H
hopitt
- Original Poster
- #93
But what legal basis do they have to hold funds?
It's an aged PayPal account that's only ever been used for purchases.
I sell one item (gaming laptop) on ebay, buyer received within a few days of purchase, ebay release the funds early.
PayPal ask me to supply proof of ID and proof of purchase of the item sold, all this was provided and accepted by PayPal.
I try to then withdraw my funds and my account is limited automatically. I then receive an email 2 days later stating they've decided to permanently close my account.
If they had evidence to suggest they should keep my funds for money laundering, they'll need to supply that to the judge will they not? As that is the only lawful reason they could be holding my funds?
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H
hopitt
- Original Poster
- #95
They're assuming I'm savvy enough to find it? If I'm directly asking them where I serve legal papers to and they're effectively refusing to give me any address how is that not being obtuse?
Wouldn't the expected and appropriate response be something along the lines of
"you can find all legal information and how and where to serve court documents to on our information page here.."
Instead I got automated responses (signed by a different rep each time) about how they were not willing to look into my account being unrestricted.
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10 seconds with google gets me this:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full
One click later:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#other
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full
One click later:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#other
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You can contact us by:
- Writing to us by post at our head office: PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A. Attention: Legal Department, 22-24 Boulevard Royal, 2449 Luxembourg, Luxembourg; or
- Visiting our Contact Us page where you can:
- Click the "Email Us" link to contact us online.
- Click the “Call Us” link for our telephone number if you want to call us.
If you're not savvy enough to find the address, then it's reasonable to withhold your money.
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They won’t give it because if they get it wrong they are liable. By directing you to the website they are ensuring you get the official address.
Note also this address is also on all emails you get from PayPal
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No. They are under no obligation at all. The information is freely available.
You are now clutching at straws. Their address is on all the correspondence they send to you.
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Wow, I've had email correspondence every time from paypal when someone has paid me. Without fail.
Yet somehow you got paid but didn't get an email to tell you that you had been paid. What went wrong with your email account?
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I think the bottom line on this one is that no one on here is a lawyer (at least in this field) and there is a myriad of legal advice sites and forums you could probably get better advice given where you are now.
My guess is someone in their complants department has shot off a boilerplate request to the CC that it is not in their jurisdiction, so I would not be too worried about them claiming costs if you cancel.. If you go to court and fail because your case was manifestly flawed, or because you used your company's email rather than your own which blocked their correspondence, then you may be on different ground. However, I have no idea how costs in the county court are awared, if they are at all.
My concern is that you were originally saying they were being obtuse in your requests of where to serve the papers... not that you hadn't received correspondence. I would find that difficult to believe, unless you were requesting it from a PayPal UK company, which has nothing to do with you and has no requirement to respond. I would expect they would have just sent you the link to their T&Cs... If they can prove they did this, you may be on shakey ground, too..
Also, I understand your frustration at not being given a reason for them withholding your money -to you it is a simple transaction, the buyer has the item and you are waiting for your cash. But for them to tell you why may constitute the offence of tipping you off that you are being investigated for a financial criminal offence (it could be AML, it could be sanctions breaches, it could be plain old fraud). The fact that they are withholding is sort of tipping off in its own right, but if they give you a reason, they may well be breaking the law, too.
Honestly, go to a forum that could give you more qualified legal advice. But I would consider dropping the case and waiting for the money... [edit] ensuring you identify what your likely costs are going to be)
My guess is someone in their complants department has shot off a boilerplate request to the CC that it is not in their jurisdiction, so I would not be too worried about them claiming costs if you cancel.. If you go to court and fail because your case was manifestly flawed, or because you used your company's email rather than your own which blocked their correspondence, then you may be on different ground. However, I have no idea how costs in the county court are awared, if they are at all.
My concern is that you were originally saying they were being obtuse in your requests of where to serve the papers... not that you hadn't received correspondence. I would find that difficult to believe, unless you were requesting it from a PayPal UK company, which has nothing to do with you and has no requirement to respond. I would expect they would have just sent you the link to their T&Cs... If they can prove they did this, you may be on shakey ground, too..
Also, I understand your frustration at not being given a reason for them withholding your money -to you it is a simple transaction, the buyer has the item and you are waiting for your cash. But for them to tell you why may constitute the offence of tipping you off that you are being investigated for a financial criminal offence (it could be AML, it could be sanctions breaches, it could be plain old fraud). The fact that they are withholding is sort of tipping off in its own right, but if they give you a reason, they may well be breaking the law, too.
Honestly, go to a forum that could give you more qualified legal advice. But I would consider dropping the case and waiting for the money... [edit] ensuring you identify what your likely costs are going to be)
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Why not go to a solicitor, rather than a legal forum? (There is a legal section on here as well as a few legal eagles within UKBF).
@LanceUk - You've given the longer version on what we've all said.
Sometimes it's best to keep it short and to the point.
The OP needs to move on . . . . . . . and start selling more gaming laptops . . . . . .
@LanceUk - You've given the longer version on what we've all said.
Sometimes it's best to keep it short and to the point.
The OP needs to move on . . . . . . . and start selling more gaming laptops . . . . . .
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