Sensitive Topic, Need advice

[martin1974]

I work for a small company where there are only 3 full time office staff.

On Friday evening at around 5:45 one of my colleagues returned to the office to collect his keys and walked in on another colleague performing an indecent act at his desk. Nothing was said at the time but the incident has been reported to me as the line manager of the person committing the act. I will not say what was being done but it probably doesn't take much to figure it out.

If they had been caught stealing I would know how to deal with the situation, however with this I am at a loss. I am not HR trained and don't know how to deal with this. Our employer is currently on holiday with his family in France.

Any suggestions?

 

[bovine]

Whacking one out at his desk ....and getting caught. Oh dear, the shame

As an employer, I would do this. Have a little chat with the whacker, asking them if they thought it appropriate etc, and please dont do it again. Emphasise how stupid it was.

To the one who has walked in on him, tell them the whacker has promised not to do it again and is very embarassed.

What they did was inappropriate, but they did think no one was there so i wouldnt worry too much. As long as it was at there own desk. If at someone elses, well thats just creepy.

I would think this would be enough. This is assuming the whacker is the same sex as the catcher. If different sexes, you might need to be careful of sex discrimination, but as long as the above is documented you should be fine. If the whacker had intended to be caught, then it would be more of an issue.

I can just imagine the meeting this morning. "Hi, as the boss is away, thought i would bring it up with you. I caught Richard have a whack-off on friday....."

Edit - I see they are both male. I think they should both see the funny side in time, and this incident will be referred to for years to come. Come up with a witty name for it.

Would have made my day!

 

[martin1974]

See, I know it wouldn't take much to figure it out. Even though it was a guy catching a guy I don't think sex discrimination is an issue.

I have spoken to both parties and documented the disciplinary for his file. Not really the kind of thing I expected first thing Monday morning. I will have to mention it to the boss when he is back from his hols because after all they are his employees.

 

[MrsPWN]

Aww bless you did make me giggle...both the guys must have been mortified and I love the way bovine cut to the chase...classic post if I may say so gents

 

[Dawg]

Ahh. But who sits in the wet patch?

 

[waveneybooks]

Maybe his job turns him on ;-)

 

[evocart]

I agree with Bovine, I think that would be an acceptable way to deal with it, he won't be the 1st person to have done this kind of thing, though in a locked toilet cubical may have been a better place if needs must.

Anyway the meeting will probably make him embarrased enough to think twice next time, if the other person walking in on him wasn't enough of a shock. However don't be too hard if the other member of staff can forgive and (try to) forget.

You could also explain that if it had been a female member of staff that walked in on him, things could have been a lot worse.

 

[bovine]

Re-reading my post, when i said "as an employer, I would do this" I obviously didnt mean that I would be doing THAT.

Glad you liked my response, didnt think there was any point beating round the bush. Oh hang on, that sounds wrong in this context

I will now move along, before I bring this thread any lower.

 

[Outsourcer]

See, I know it wouldn't take much to figure it out. Even though it was a guy catching a guy I don't think sex discrimination is an issue.

I have spoken to both parties and documented the disciplinary for his file. Not really the kind of thing I expected first thing Monday morning. I will have to mention it to the boss when he is back from his hols because after all they are his employees.

You can't have discovered this today and already held a disciplinary meeting..all on the same day??

Personally, unless it was some outrageous form of 'Whacking off' as opposed to a crafty ' 5 knuckle shuffle' under the desk, I would just have a word in private with the 'Whacker' to say the act has come to your attention. This alone would be enough of a sanction via the sheer embarrassment to the individual.

Re the informer, thank them for the information but make it absolutely clear that this is not to be the subject of office tittle tattle or banter and that the subject is now closed (unless there is evidence of further 'Whacking' in which case then It would warrent a more severe formal sanction)

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Hi Martin,

Putting aside any comic value of this thread (which I concede is difficult, and also makes this post all the more difficult as one has to choose words very carefully!) , I would actually take a more serious approach than others suggested. We don't know too much about your workplace- what other employees, cleaners, etc, may have potentially walked in - so any disciplinary certainly needs to reflect the potential harm/offence to others, not only any actual harm to the person that did walk in.

As a comparator, if someone in the office had bad BO, a quiet word to improve their personal hygiene would be appropriate. To suggest a similar response here (although it may well have the desired result) would seem far too lenient: in the outside world, even in a secluded location, this would be considered an indecent act, and no reason to treat it more lightly for a workplace. Most of us might find it comical rather than take offence, but the employer has a duty to consider all its employees & other visitors to their office, not just those that happened upon the incident.

Outsourcer has already observed that you can't realistically have conducted a full disciplinary process in one day, so assuming you have the appropriate authority as the manager, deal with this properly now. I would consider this behaviour could potentially be serious misconduct, and I would write to the member of staff advising them of the same. You would need to conduct a disciplinary investigation, and then ideally present the information to your boss to make a decision.



Karl Limpert

 

[yorkshirejames]

Dare I ask whether there was some 'mood setting material' on the office computer at the same time?

I must admit that I would (personally, as a layman) treat this humorously and try to leave it - if the watcher made a complaint then (and only then) does this need to become formal.

Not sure I agree about indecent acts - this was after all an empty room. Wonder if your company should write a "personal pleasurement policy" for future events?

For the purpose of this page appearing in google searches correctly, may I add the search term Being Caught Masterbating in the Office to the thread.

Note that sexual discrimination wouldn't be an issue (even if the catching person was female) - it would only be sexual discrimination if management treated a self-pleasuring lady differently. Granted, the chances of 18 year old female secretary reporting a 45 year old bloke for doing the unmentionable are much higher than a complaint if roles were reversed....

(may I also add that I've had three rather nice glasses of claret, and any reply I would have posted at 9am tomorrow morning just may have been worded differently.

 

[Outsourcer]

I would, if in your position, consider the following.

A - Does the person who found him in the act wish to submit a grievance or is prepared to just notify you. If the former, it raises the game somewhat re appropriate action. Clarify this point!
B- If the answer to the above is a NO, then consider the act itself. Was it low level or a more serious and explicit act.
C- If an explicit act and if it involved pornography then it would be an act of Gross (sic) misconduct likely to lead to dismissal
D - If of a lower level, what is the employees previous track record like?. If he is someone you don't want to lose and no one is submitting a grievance over it then the 'quiet word' approach would probably suffice.
E - If he is the office idiot you want to get shot of then here is your chance to hang him by his own rope
F- Whatever you do that leads to a formal sanction, you will need to carry out a full investigation prior to the disciplinary meeting. Was he in fact set up by the other employee who has a grudge?

If you go down the formal approach leading to a dismissal, you will need to give him written reasons for the dismissal so make sure your judgement is correct. To go home and tell the wife you have been sacked for ******* at work is a hefty price to pay and can affect someones life in other negative ways for a long time (rest of thier life?).

If, as I suspect, you have already held a disciplinary hearing, then I strongly urge you to null and void this and inform the employee along the lines of "sorry, heat of the moment" and start the process again as this would never stand up in a Tribunal if it ever went that way.

The joys of employing staff

P.S - If it makes you feel any better, after advising on 600+ tribunals over the years, I have heard of a lot LOT worse cases of sexual misdemenours in the workplace......

 

[maxine]

P.S - If it makes you feel any better, after advising on 600+ tribunals over the years, I have heard of a lot LOT worse cases of sexual misdemenours in the workplace......

Oh dear!

 

[bovine]

Now I want to hear more details on those! Perhaps a seperate thread

 

[Bri]

On the plus side its the only official time you could call him a To55er and get away with it.

 

[Outsourcer]

Now I want to hear more details on those! Perhaps a seperate thread

It would be a good one, that's for sure

As a taster, how about this one line from a really salacious case

" instead of paying me holiday pay, my employer took me shopping and bought me expensive exotic lingerie as payment for holidays not taken "

 

[Brian Williamson]

Assuming the two involved in the incident were adults why the devil did the witness feel any need to report his collegue in the first place? The witness is just as capable surely of appropriately advising his colleague as any manager and without creating a fuss.

 

[TheGuru2010]

I would let this go im sure the sheer embaresment would be enough to put this to a end.

My only other concern (which another poster briefly mentioned) is was he using a work computer to look at these images? If so i would look into this in more detail, i mean what if for some reason you had a visitor or another member of staff use his computer and the website came up as they were going on a diffrent site? I would certainly check out this chaps PC.

 

[martin1974]

I feel the need to clarify something. I admit that on my earlier response I chose my words badly. I have NOT conducted a formal disciplinary.

When spoken to about what had transpired I conducted an investigatory interview to determine whether there was any truth in what I had been told. The individual in question did not deny it, and also confirmed that it was not the first time they had perfomed this act at their desk.

I felt justified at that point as his line manager to issue a verbal warning, which was made clear to the individual at the time.

The person who walked in on the act has not as yet made a formal complaint.

 

[bovine]

now whats the point in buying lingerie with company money. Its not deductable unless its used solely at work. oh hang on

 

[martin1974]

Assuming the two involved in the incident were adults why the devil did the witness feel any need to report his collegue in the first place? The witness is just as capable surely of appropriately advising his colleague as any manager and without creating a fuss.

I asked myself the very same thing.

 

[harryboon]

OMG this thread is just too funny - I have forwarded a link to all my staff just in case they get any ideas lol

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

I have NOT conducted a formal disciplinary.

I felt justified at that point as his line manager to issue a verbal warning, which was made clear to the individual at the time.

:| How can you take disciplinary action (in the form of a verbal warning) without conducting a formal disciplinary?


Karl Limpert

 

[Morgy]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else ever been caught doing what the whacker was doing in the OP?

 

[martin1974]

No. The whacker, who shall now go by the name of Wayne, will be the first. I have had to disturb my employers family holiday for this so that he can deal with it with a firm hand, and yes, I know that will just be taken out of context.

 

[Dawg]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else ever been caught doing what the whacker was doing in the OP?

Nah. But knew someone who set fire to his bosses underpants whilst his boss was 'otherwise employed'. The boss was wearing them at the time, but as ankle warmers.
Does that count? My chum got fired. Didn't claim constructive dismissal either. Just took it on the chin....
True story. Surrey newspaper offices a few years ago. Can't remember what happened to the boss's secretary, who, cough, witnessed the whole thing.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

No. The whacker, who shall now go by the name of Wayne, will be the first. I have had to disturb my employers family holiday for this so that he can deal with it with a firm hand, and yes, I know that will just be taken out of context.

love your choice of wording!

 

[Morgy]

No. The whacker, who shall now go by the name of Wayne, will be the first. I have had to disturb my employers family holiday for this so that he can deal with it with a firm hand, and yes, I know that will just be taken out of context.

Nah. But knew someone who set fire to his bosses underpants whilst his boss was 'otherwise employed'. The boss was wearing them at the time, but as ankle warmers.
Does that count? My chum got fired. Didn't claim constructive dismissal either. Just took it on the chin....
True story. Surrey newspaper offices a few years ago. Can't remember what happened to the boss's secretary, who, cough, witnessed the whole thing.

You both must be good at it then

 

[Angus Berger]

Hi, I'm the guy who walked in on <<<Edit to remove details>>> while he was "otherwise busy".

People have asked why I felt the need to report it, and not just deal with it there and then. Quite simply -
1 - it's impossible to talk to someone when they've got their panties round their ankles and their tackle in their hand. And I didn't want to see any more than I already had while he put himself away.
2 - there is the question of what he was viewing on his PC at the time, as this was shut off before I got to see it, and how far short of our company's (fairly relaxed) IT policy it fell.
3 - he's not the sort of person who you can have that conversation with on an informal basis. He's very easily embarassed, doesn't respond at all well to any criticism, or even constructive feedback, and is fairly immature in his outlook
He still doesn't appear to think that he's done anything wrong, and is walking around as if nothing untoward has happened
and 4 - He was having a w#nk in the office, and hadn't even bothered to lock the door. Do we want someone that stupid actually working for us?

 

[bridges]

This thread made me laught so many times, mainly at others comments!

Martin: I really do feel for you though, how awful having to deal with something like this! I really hope it has a speedy and discreet outcome! Was cringing for you:redface:

Good luck!

 

[MikeJ]

Thing is, if this happened when there was just the two of them around, the office must have been pretty quiet. I'm surprised one of them didn't hear the other one coming.

 

[bovine]

bravo, very good.

Not sure i would have appreciated being disturbed while on hols for this. Would have rather it was dealt with on my return.

 

[bry123]

Great thread, I just wish I could think of something witty to add!

 

[Cornish Steve]

I can't understand why most in this thread don't view the incident as serious:

1) The person walking into the office could have been female
2) The person walking into the office could have been accompanying a customer

Is there no company policy for dealing with such issues? If not, there should be.

IMO, the company should do several things:

1) Issue a formal, written reprimand making clear that such behaviour is unacceptable. If it happens again, the person would be fired on the spot.

2) Examine the employee's PC to determine whether he's been viewing inappropriate material on company computers. If so, he should be fired instantly.

Sorry, but I have little tolerance for such behaviour. More than that, not dealing with the matter is unfair on other employees who should expect basic rules of decency in the workplace.

 

[Dawg]

1 - it's impossible to talk to someone when they've got their panties round their ankles and their tackle in their hand. And I didn't want to see any more than I already had while he put himself away.

Ah! This is why some people are getting their knickers in a twist about this. Panties! Girly kit!
A Cross Dressing palm shuffler. Oi! Not that!

(I really can't believe people are taking this so seriously. It is not heinous, nobody was hurt, and it seems to bring out the bansturbation in some people with fundamentalist tendencies. Get a grip....)

 

[WarbyGK]

Just make sure that at the end of your formal discussion with him, you don't shake his hand......

 

[evocart]

I agree, if it was a woman that had walked in then it could have been a very serious problem, however I'm sure the other guy has thought about or done such a thing himself, maybe not in an office but somewhere where there was a risk of being caught. Plus once you have seen one you have seen them all so it's not exactly a reason to publically humilliate the guy.

I'm sure if he read this, he would be deviststed, also just because he doesn't show his feelings, doesn't mean he doesn't have any. Personally I don't even think the person who made the complaint should have been allowed to see this post as they could use it to embarras the other person either further.

 

[maxine]

And this was 5.45 ... I mean didn't he have any more work to do?

 

[Dawg]

And this was 5.45 ... I mean didn't he have any more work to do?

He was just priming himself for a bit of B2B
(Bash t' Bishop)

 

[maxine]

I have to admit I have had a bit of a giggle at this thread but agree that since it's been bought to light it should be dealt with quite seriously. It's bad enough if you have to sit at someone elses desk when they have spilt coffee etc ... But this guy obviously was aware of the risks of getting caught and it didn't bother him. I'd be concerned about what other risks he would take in general in the workplace

Just yeuch