Sending an invoice you know a company will dispute

[Naive citizen]

I am wondering about sending an invoice to a company for an amount due that I strongly suspect they will dispute.

Has anyone else been in a similar position?

They know the money is due but I can't force them to pay as they've already received the services so they can ignore the invoice.

Is there any recourse and how can disputed invoices be settled in the end. 99.9% of my business is dealing with the public and they pay by debit / credit card at the time of the sale so it's an issue I have no experience with. Does it turn into a small claims court issue or are there other compelling reasons for companies to pay their invoices even if it is for goods or services they dispute the quality of.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

If you do not send it, you will never know.

What does your contract/T&C's say about work & payment?

You cant do anything legally until you send the invoice.

 

[Naive citizen]

I'm taking the part of the contract in isolation which says 3 months is required to terminate the contract. If three months isn't given then there is payment in lieu of notice. This is the bit I'm concentrating on.

Where they might dispute it is that there is a 'get-out' clause where the customer has attempted to tailor the contract in their favour by making the notice / payment in lieu conditional. i.e. if according to their own view of reasonable cause they can elect not to give notice or pay notice for terminating the contract.

Where it gets awkward is that they have given themselves the power to decide what is reasonable or not. Unwittingly however, it seems to me this clause has been written such that they leave themselves open to arbitration.

So it is disputable... but maybe not also.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm taking the part of the contract in isolation which says 3 months is required to terminate the contract. If three months isn't given then there is payment in lieu of notice. This is the bit I'm concentrating on.

Where they might dispute it is that there is a 'get-out' clause where the customer has attempted to tailor the contract in their favour by making the notice / payment in lieu conditional. i.e. if according to their own view of reasonable cause they can elect not to give notice or pay notice for terminating the contract.

Where it gets awkward is that they have given themselves the power to decide what is reasonable or not. Unwittingly however, it seems to me this clause has been written such that they leave themselves open to arbitration.

So it is disputable... but maybe not also.

It may be me, but that does not make a lot of sense.

 

[fisicx]

@Naive citizen - send them the invoice. If they don't pay terminate the service. It's not complicated.

 

[Naive citizen]

@Naive citizen - send them the invoice. If they don't pay terminate the service. It's not complicated.

The complexity comes when they are a big customer and it is a small business.

 

[MBE2017]

Take this as a lesson, do not extend any credit until you answer these questions you have mentioned and had a professional contract drawn up to protect yourself.

Loads of businesses will state by accepting their order you agree to their terms, you need to understand how to protect yourself.

 

[MBE2017]

The complexity comes when they are a big customer and it is a small business.

Makes no difference at all. Your mindset does.

 

[Naive citizen]

Take this as a lesson, do not extend any credit until you answer these questions you have mentioned and had a professional contract drawn up to protect yourself.

Loads of businesses will state by accepting their order you agree to their terms, you need to understand how to protect yourself.

Sure, but they've broken their own terms.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

It may be me, but that does not make a lot of sense.

True.

Why don't you concentrate on trying to get your money, which starts with the invoice?

 

[MRQ]

Sure, but they've broken their own terms.

Frankly... you're talking in riddles and not providing enough information upon which to base any answers or advice.

You've supplied goods or services (which?) to a business; and you're convinced they are going to fail or refuse to pay - why exactly?

Rattling on about the minutia of terms and conditions only you know about here, can progress nothing...

 

[Naive citizen]

True.

Why don't you concentrate on trying to get your money, which starts with the invoice?

I was a little pushed for time earlier so did not answer that part of your reply. I think you're right, got to put the invoice in anyway.

My reservation I suppose is thinking whether or not there is another way to resolve the problem and whether or not intentionally starting a dispute is a good idea as that would be the effect of submitting the invoice.

 

[MRQ]

My reservation I suppose is thinking whether or not there is another way to resolve the problem

What problem, exactly?

 

[fisicx]

The complexity comes when they are a big customer and it is a small business.

It's not complex at all. You are just making excuses. Send them the invoice

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Someone who does not pay their bills (regardless of size) is not a customer - they are a liability!

 

[japancool]

I was a little pushed for time earlier so did not answer that part of your reply. I think you're right, got to put the invoice in anyway.

My reservation I suppose is thinking whether or not there is another way to resolve the problem and whether or not intentionally starting a dispute is a good idea as that would be the effect of submitting the invoice.

You don't even know there IS a problem yet.

And if you don't send an invoice, I guarantee you they won't pay.

 

[japancool]

The complexity comes when they are a big customer and it is a small business.

OK. Then carry on providing the service for free.

 

[Naive citizen]

Point taken... just send it.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

I'm a little confused. You say the invoice will be disputed - why? That suggests there is a problem with the bill.

Alternatively if you mean you believe they cannot pay it, that is a completely different matter. That is not a disputed debt - that suggests possible insolvency of the debtor.

 

[Naive citizen]

I'm a little confused. You say the invoice will be disputed - why? That suggests there is a problem with the bill.

Alternatively if you mean you believe they cannot pay it, that is a completely different matter. That is not a disputed debt - that suggests possible insolvency of the debtor.

Yes, the problem is this invoice will be for unpaid notice of termination of the contract which they are obligated to pay by virtue of the agreement of it.

So it's a bit of a balancing act.

On the one hand they have terminated a contract without providing the agreed notice either in time or payment. On the other there is the concern that since they are 'mad at me' (for want of a better phrase) that sending them an invoice for their contractually obliged payment might mean we never do business again.

Like I said earlier, I'm not really experienced with B2B invoicing as my customers are typically general public who pay at point of sale.

 

[Bobbo]

On the one hand they have terminated a contract without providing the agreed notice either in time or payment. On the other there is the concern that since they are 'mad at me' (for want of a better phrase) that sending them an invoice for their contractually obliged payment might mean we never do business again.

If they've terminated the contract without providing the required notice it sounds like you won't be doing business with them again either way.

 

[Naive citizen]

If they've terminated the contract without providing the required notice it sounds like you won't be doing business with them again either way.

True, so do I just send the invoice for the unpaid notice and hope that they'll pay it?

 

[MRQ]

On the one hand they have terminated a contract without providing the agreed notice either in time or payment. On the other there is the concern that since they are 'mad at me' (for want of a better phrase) that sending them an invoice for their contractually obliged payment might mean we never do business again.

OK... so why exactly are they 'mad' at you? Why did they terminate the contract? - Are they perhaps holding you in breach of contract?

 

[GLAbusiness]

Ask them why they terminated. What is wrong with the service you provided? Can you fix the shortcoming? You should take reasonable steps to resolve before thinking about legal proceedings. Talk to hem and get to the bottom of the issue.

 

[fisicx]

What exactly was the service you provided?

How much do they owe you?

 

[Naive citizen]

What exactly was the service you provided?

How much do they owe you?

What's the relevance?

 

[MRQ]

What's the relevance?

Establishing who is actually in the wrong, and the scale of the issue is essential to forming an opinion as to whether (a) you are in the right in invoicing them for breaking the contractual agreement and (b) whether you might, yourself, wind up being sued - or if they're more likely to roll over for a quiet life.

 

[Naive citizen]

OK... so why exactly are they 'mad' at you? Why did they terminate the contract? - Are they perhaps holding you in breach of contract?

Simple as - they were unhappy with the service I was providing. We signed a contract agreeing on both sides that we would give 3 months notice if either side wished to terminate the contract. The dispute is that they consider the situation to be so unacceptable that they have not given the contractually obliged 3 months of notice to terminate the contract. I don't agree that the situation is as bad as they are making out but I can see, it's obvious they know that unless they have some sort of grievance that they are contractually obliged to pay their way out of the contract.

 

[Naive citizen]

Establishing who is actually in the wrong, and the scale of the issue is essential to forming an opinion as to whether (a) you are in the right in invoicing them for breaking the contractual agreement and (b) whether you might, yourself, wind up being sued - or if they're more likely to roll over for a quiet life.

I think it's up to me whether or not I give up on it. Value of the dispute is subjective, what is nothing to one person might be substantial to another.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I think it's up to me whether or not I give up on it. Value of the dispute is subjective, what is nothing to one person might be substantial to another.

The value starts to have relevance when you start paying for Lawyers.

 

[MRQ]

Not so simple then... If the service was of an unacceptable standard then they may well be in the right to terminate without notice. ...The value of the dispute is FAR from 'subjective'; it determines whether it's worth anyone's while going to court over the issue.

i.e. You invoice, they refuse to pay (on the basis of non performance/breach) - you try to enforce and they send in the lawyers. Their position will (probably) be that you breached the agreement at which point they considered they were no longer bound by it. - Unless you have solid proof that you delivered what you were contracted to do, then it might be better if you quit while you're behind.

 

[GLAbusiness]

I don't agree that the situation is as bad as they are making out

But the situation is bad? That sounds as though you accept that the service you provided is not up to standard. You should be learning from this. How can you improve the service you provide so that you avoid this situation again. If you are providing a substandard service the business won't last long. Depending on the value if the termination payment, it may be better for you to write this off as a learning experience and concentrate on moving forward with a service which is actually worth the money you charge for it.

 

[fisicx]

What's the relevance?

It helps to understand what actions to could take.

If the service was to paint the whole building and they weren’t happy then you do one thing. If it was to water the flowers each day then you do something else.

If they owe you £100 it’s not viable to go to court. If it’s £100,000 then legal action becomes viable.

 

[Naive citizen]

It helps to understand what actions to could take.

If the service was to paint the whole building and they weren’t happy then you do one thing. If it was to water the flowers each day then you do something else.

If they owe you £100 it’s not viable to go to court. If it’s £100,000 then legal action becomes viable.

I'm a big advocate of 'legal on the cheap' and I've done quite well with that strategy over the years. I've paid £0 in legal fees and won all my battles, not a bad record. So anything more than court fees is worth challenging from my point of view. The outstanding amount is their three regular monthly contractual payments as agreed when we made the contract.

 

[fisicx]

in which case, just issue an invoice and when they don’t pay take them to court.

 

[Naive citizen]

But the situation is bad? That sounds as though you accept that the service you provided is not up to standard. You should be learning from this. How can you improve the service you provide so that you avoid this situation again. If you are providing a substandard service the business won't last long. Depending on the value if the termination payment, it may be better for you to write this off as a learning experience and concentrate on moving forward with a service which is actually worth the money you charge for it.

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I thought I had provided bad service. This is the point of argument between us. If I had provided bad service and they terminated the contract then that would be allowed under the terms we agreed. In this case no issues had been raised, they just decided without explaining their reasons that they would terminate. That's why I'm trying to figure out the correct strategy for seeing that they fulfil their obligations.

 

[Naive citizen]

in which case, just issue an invoice and when they don’t pay take them to court.

I think that is more-or-less the plan.

 

[MRQ]

I'm a big advocate of 'legal on the cheap' and I've done quite well with that strategy over the years. I've paid £0 in legal fees and won all my battles, not a bad record.

Right then... off you go Rumpole. ? - Why bother to ask when you know better anyway? (rhetorical question!) FFS!

 

[Newchodge]

I'm a big advocate of 'legal on the cheap' and I've done quite well with that strategy over the years. I've paid £0 in legal fees and won all my battles, not a bad record. So anything more than court fees is worth challenging from my point of view. The outstanding amount is their three regular monthly contractual payments as agreed when we made the contract.

I'm a bit confused. Last week (or possibly the week before) you were complaining about being sacked as an employee after having been an employee (of someone else) for more than 12 years. When did you stop being an employee and start this business?

And if you are as legally savant as you have claimed, why are you asking this question?

 

[japancool]

How did you get on with suing your employer, btw?