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sirearl
The SEO trade is in total ruin.IMHO
The method of payment is so open to abuse.
I.E sign up for 12 months at 1k a month .
In the 15 years I have been involved in it I have never had a contract with anyone,never taken any payment untill it has been earnt by a company,no upfront payment.
I get paid from the money I earn people.
Mostly I take a share of the business that way it keeps me keen to improve that business.
Most will probably say its not a plan they like,but I suspect the problem is confidence in there own abilities as the rewards can be far greater and long term than charging a fixed amount for SEO services.
Can I recommend an SEO ,there are a few on here as you are probably aware who's reputations are excellent.
But its horses for courses,so not going to recommend one over another.
The method of payment is so open to abuse.
I.E sign up for 12 months at 1k a month .
In the 15 years I have been involved in it I have never had a contract with anyone,never taken any payment untill it has been earnt by a company,no upfront payment.
I get paid from the money I earn people.
Mostly I take a share of the business that way it keeps me keen to improve that business.
Most will probably say its not a plan they like,but I suspect the problem is confidence in there own abilities as the rewards can be far greater and long term than charging a fixed amount for SEO services.
Can I recommend an SEO ,there are a few on here as you are probably aware who's reputations are excellent.
But its horses for courses,so not going to recommend one over another.
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Do you actually think that someone who charges, let's say less than 100 pounds per week could fix/improve your business ? That's less than a part time mcdonald's employee would earn.
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Are you comparing mcondals employee time and skill worth to an SEO who can actually deliver results that generates multiple thousands of pounds per month to his clients ?
That might be a shocker, but sometimes when you type very fast you bound to make grammar mistakes
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@GoldenLeads Correcting grammar really is poor netiquette, and pretty much unacceptable behaviour on any forum or discussion platform.
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Then you should of tagged shopclicks, because he inadvertently pointed out my grammar mistake in his reply.
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I fixed a site the other day in a couple of hours. All it needed was some tweaks to the page titles and little bit of work on the internal linking.
Not everybody is chasing after high competition keywords.
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It's not directed to you, but in general almost anyone can do SEO - you can check freelance websites... But not everyone can make sure that client gets maximum amount of visitors who are interested in his product/service, and convert those visitors into buyers.
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If an SEO company is able to rank themselves highly on search engine results, then that is a pretty good sign. Afterall, if they are able to successfully apply SEO to their own website, then they can definitely apply it to your company.
And another thing, if an SEO company does well, then they usually get rave reviews on different directories and have gained a large number of testimonials, so definitely look out for them.
I hope this helps.
And another thing, if an SEO company does well, then they usually get rave reviews on different directories and have gained a large number of testimonials, so definitely look out for them.
I hope this helps.
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sirearl
Well anyone who knows SEO will know that intense work is needed initially to obtain decent rankings but from then on all that is required is a watching brief and the occasional adjustment.
So yes I have been happy with a hundred quid a week for a few minutes work a week.
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Going back to the OP's question, you have been here long enough to know who can and who cannot, nearly all can get you to the top, it takes a different class to keep you there. from experience big keywords don't pay the bills its vanity and money wasted chasing them, unless they fill the void between the long tail keyword too
2 SEO's who I would would class as pro's have answered this post, Personally i would approach them and ask them for their opinions via PM and see if they can help you, all you need to do on a monthly basis check the top ten in google and see how often that number 1 spot changes, however you will see a few that are always there or about's after google's updates and they are the ones you need to be speaking with
2 SEO's who I would would class as pro's have answered this post, Personally i would approach them and ask them for their opinions via PM and see if they can help you, all you need to do on a monthly basis check the top ten in google and see how often that number 1 spot changes, however you will see a few that are always there or about's after google's updates and they are the ones you need to be speaking with
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Well anyone who knows SEO will know that intense work is needed initially to obtain decent rankings but from then on all that is required is a watching brief and the occasional adjustment.
So yes I have been happy with a hundred quid a week for a few minutes work a week.
The question is are your clients happy ? I think main priority is making a client happy, if a client is happy and makes money, then automatically you make money, and how much you make is in direct proportion of how much money your client makes from what you have done, thus 100 per week isn't what I would call a lot.Although there are super local businesses, that it's impossible to get more even if you rank for all their terms top #1, I understand that.
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No, I'm pointing out that it's ridiculous to compare what 2 people earn if you don't include the number of hours worked.
Steve
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By direct proportion I didn't meant "pence to pence". It's quite easy to calculate how much extra profit your client makes from your services. If it's 20k per month of extra profit, then it's not ridiculous to charge 5k+ per month, if it's 50k per month, then the client would agree to pay 10k+ per month.
That's very strange, because from my experience big keywords (high search volume) are the ones that pays the bills. If your SEO agency tries to rank for lets say 3 main big keywords (lets say 3x2500 searches per month= 7500 searches total) and you spend a lot of money but your SEO agency fails to rank, and all of those keywords aren't in top 3, they are instead all on top 5-6, then you are right it's a waste of money, because out of those 7500 searches you will get less than 300 visitors.
Now, if the SEO agency was good at doing their job and 2 of those keywords are on #1 position and 1 keyword is on top #2 then you will receive 2000~ of those 7500, so you can see a clear difference between being on top #5/#6 positions of first page, with 300~ visitors, and being on top #1/#2 with 2000~ visitors.
If the SEO agency is really good, then you will rank automatically for hundreds of smaller terms when the main keywords are on top 1-3 spot of Google, thus multiplying the amount of visitors even more.
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If your client turns £500k + then i am sure both are happy ...
Not many will offer profit share as not many can deliver, but if you are confident and understand the industry well then there really is no point to working to any other method, but make sure you are working with the right people and that your agreement is 100% transparent as you may get issues down the line
Not many will offer profit share as not many can deliver, but if you are confident and understand the industry well then there really is no point to working to any other method, but make sure you are working with the right people and that your agreement is 100% transparent as you may get issues down the line
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Great thread which highlights so much of the mistrust and cowboy behaviour that affects the industry.
Because so many people have been unfairly held into contracts for 12 months and resented it, we work on a month by month rolling basis with all our clients, period.
Because transparency is such an issue, we report every single thing we do, chat with our clients regularly, and aim for a face to face every month where possible.
Because (as some wise folks have said) nothing can be achieved for less than 500 a month, that is our minimum.
The other thing to say about SEO is that, as a stand alone entity, it scarcely exists anymore. The process is about sitting down with a client, figuring out where they are now and where they want to be in six months and one year. For many that come to us wanting SEO, we end up recommending PPC simply because that's going to bring them what they want most affordably and certainly faster. For those that do sign up for SEO, it needs to be clear that it's a longer game.
Because so many people have been unfairly held into contracts for 12 months and resented it, we work on a month by month rolling basis with all our clients, period.
Because transparency is such an issue, we report every single thing we do, chat with our clients regularly, and aim for a face to face every month where possible.
Because (as some wise folks have said) nothing can be achieved for less than 500 a month, that is our minimum.
The other thing to say about SEO is that, as a stand alone entity, it scarcely exists anymore. The process is about sitting down with a client, figuring out where they are now and where they want to be in six months and one year. For many that come to us wanting SEO, we end up recommending PPC simply because that's going to bring them what they want most affordably and certainly faster. For those that do sign up for SEO, it needs to be clear that it's a longer game.
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It's complicated because of legal reasons, it's less complicated to sell leads, and know how much each lead is worth + you can sell leads to multiple customers in the same niche for the best price.
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Scott@KarmaContent
As someone who doesn't offer SEO services, it's interesting that some of you work with contracts and others don't.
I always thought that SEO can be quite 'top heavy', in that there's more work in the initial couple of months (site review, competitor analysis, on-site SEO etc) and then it flattens out into regular content creation, link building (or 'outreach' as we're supposed to call it these days) and tweaks here and there.
I always thought that SEO can be quite 'top heavy', in that there's more work in the initial couple of months (site review, competitor analysis, on-site SEO etc) and then it flattens out into regular content creation, link building (or 'outreach' as we're supposed to call it these days) and tweaks here and there.
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I would also recommend being very careful with SEO companies. An awful lot have very little knowledge and rely on outsourced labour. I actually know one that just posts on Freelancer.com when they get a new signup. You can usually spot these ones by their lack of good grammar. I would also recommend staying well clear of anyone who wants you to sign a contract because there is no motivation for them to actually produce results in this case.
We were recommended an SEO company by one of our customers who showed us their results, which were very good. Their prices start at £250/month+VAT, no contract, and depend on how competitive your keywords are. We signed up for their lowest plan about 3 months ago and we are making progress slowly but surely. After about 2 months, we stared to get enough business from Google that the SEO paid for itself, so it clearly can be done under £500
We were recommended an SEO company by one of our customers who showed us their results, which were very good. Their prices start at £250/month+VAT, no contract, and depend on how competitive your keywords are. We signed up for their lowest plan about 3 months ago and we are making progress slowly but surely. After about 2 months, we stared to get enough business from Google that the SEO paid for itself, so it clearly can be done under £500
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I have to say we have seen our fair share of cowboy SEO companies that give companies like mine a bad vibe. Not all SEO companies are bad, and we take a lot of care with our clients SEO.
I have seen so many people go do dodgy SEO companies, getting blackhat backlinks and they work... for a day or two, then the website comes crashing down the ranks a few days after and really affects their rankings.... Its harder to get back up from this than getting a decent SEO company to begin with.
A lot can be done for well under £500 a month, but without seeing what is to be dealt with, its hard to pull figures out of thin air... God, the website may not even be SEO friendly, in which case a website re-development would be required... Possibly why some people pay £1k a month to get their website re-developed and SEO on top.
There are times when the budget has to be increased, especially when guest blogging, or posting blog posts on others blogs, as these bloggers can charge anything from £10 to £100 per post (depending on the blog).
I have seen so many people go do dodgy SEO companies, getting blackhat backlinks and they work... for a day or two, then the website comes crashing down the ranks a few days after and really affects their rankings.... Its harder to get back up from this than getting a decent SEO company to begin with.
A lot can be done for well under £500 a month, but without seeing what is to be dealt with, its hard to pull figures out of thin air... God, the website may not even be SEO friendly, in which case a website re-development would be required... Possibly why some people pay £1k a month to get their website re-developed and SEO on top.
There are times when the budget has to be increased, especially when guest blogging, or posting blog posts on others blogs, as these bloggers can charge anything from £10 to £100 per post (depending on the blog).
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samtaylorseo
Interesting point about contracts being brought up. I would agree that its a big risk for a client to sign up to a 12 month contract when they have no idea what the end result will be, but surely most businesses need a contract to ensure cash flow.
How many of you in here get your customers to sign a contract?
If so, what is its length?
How many of you in here get your customers to sign a contract?
If so, what is its length?
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Sometimes the person or group who recommends the services is also the company itself. I've seen this kind of strategy back in days and until now.
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Dan Taylor
Certainly you have to be careful when choosing an SEO agency. If they are just interested in link building with article submissions, over optimising anchor text and wanting five to 10 keywords from you to rank, then i would avoid. Google's latest algorithms are more about intention than keywords. This doesn't meant keywords are dead. What it means is that if you optimize your website properly you can rank not just for your keywords but for lots of other long tail keywords too. To choose a good SEO agency you need to trust their knowledge and expertise. They have to be open with you and spent time telling you what they are doing will work. Today content marketing and promotion is king. Not only because it is what Google wants but because it is what Google wants you are more likely to rank high. we have produced infographics and content that sit on page one of Google for competitive keywords because the content was impressive and our outreach was professional. We've written a couple of blogs about optimisation and how to spot a bad SEO at our website. Have a read they should help you. Do let us know what you think of them: goodseoagency.com
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TomRoberts
Some pretty interesting responses here.
A lot of talk about contracts or not. I tend to think that it depends on the client, the industry and the competition.
For an international forex company, a monthly retainer and contract might make the most sense. For a local plumber/domestic services etc, pay per lead might be the better option. For physical/digital products, % of revenue/sales could be best.
It all depends - I would have thought agencies would be flexible to the client, depending on who they are and what they're trying to achieve.
A lot of talk about contracts or not. I tend to think that it depends on the client, the industry and the competition.
For an international forex company, a monthly retainer and contract might make the most sense. For a local plumber/domestic services etc, pay per lead might be the better option. For physical/digital products, % of revenue/sales could be best.
It all depends - I would have thought agencies would be flexible to the client, depending on who they are and what they're trying to achieve.
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