Self catering rentals - Electric car charging?

[thetiger2015]

Yes I understand risk and liability. However you appeared earlier to be unaware of what people do.
Reduce your liability does not mean someone wanting a charge will avoid a charge for their vehicle. How you can't see this I'll never know.

It reduces the chance of them trying to charge their vehicle to almost zero - save for an idiot - because the warning would state that you are not permitted to charge your vehicle on the property, as the electrical supply is not suitable or safe for EV charging. Therefore, only an idiot would try and plug their expensive EV in. 99% of people won't, because they'd read the warning and say 'sod that, not damaging my £60k car while I'm on holiday and face a huge bill'.

You cannot stop anyone doing anything - you can reduce the change of someone doing something, by providing warnings and advisory notices. If they don't abide by those notices, you've done all you can and nothing more can be expected of you.

You know this. You're just deliberately winding people up

 

[IanSuth]

I cant remember the company but i was listening to the radio the other day and there was a company that basically allows you to rent out the usage of your ev charge with you setting the price and availability.

People look on map see ones near them, what the charger is and whether available.

If you got a proper charger fitted you could use something like that to make back some of the cost (they were suggesting £1k per year of income) when no guests there - but have it available for rental customers to book usage of as well - no fire/electrical overload risks, facility available to guests and some passive income rest of the time

 

[thetiger2015]

Is this a case of Brits ranting on about safety at the slightest excuse.
I have a car that is plugged in to a general socket and the length of time to charge is no object as it is stationary most of the week. It has a timer so only on during low prices. 8 months now and my house is still standing

That is completely your responsibility. The OP was about rentals - the priority is to reduce risk to guests and reduce liabilities for injuries or damage.

Removing the charging option, reduces risk. If guests decide to go ahead anyway, that is completely on their own risk and they are subject to any damages that may result to their vehicle or the property they've rented.

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

the warning would state that you are not permitted to charge your vehicle on the property, as the electrical supply is not suitable or safe for EV charging

If a property's supply cannot support the manufacturers 13A socket 2.3KW charging lead, then it shouldn't be let out as the house wiring is clearly unsafe as is. Landlords have to have a 5 year EICR certificate check, but not sure holiday lets do?

I get what you're saying by stating/requesting guests don't charge their cars, but your reason shouldn't be applicable.

 

[Mr D]

It reduces the chance of them trying to charge their vehicle to almost zero - save for an idiot - because the warning would state that you are not permitted to charge your vehicle on the property, as the electrical supply is not suitable or safe for EV charging. Therefore, only an idiot would try and plug their expensive EV in. 99% of people won't, because they'd read the warning and say 'sod that, not damaging my £60k car while I'm on holiday and face a huge bill'.

You cannot stop anyone doing anything - you can reduce the change of someone doing something, by providing warnings and advisory notices. If they don't abide by those notices, you've done all you can and nothing more can be expected of you.

You know this. You're just deliberately winding people up

I never wind people up.

You appear to have a much kinder view of people than I do.

Because people always read the warnings. Tell me, how many people get caught speeding multiple times? How many people get a fine for driving in a bus lane / parking where not allowed?
Or how about as this is a business forum, how many people submit their personal tax returns by 31st January?

They get warned in writing don't they?

I am merely suggesting that someone who wants to charge their vehicle will do so. Apart from at one poster's properties where he has prevented that happening.
If you can't see people getting free electricity for their vehicle then it can't be a problem in your world.

 

[Mr D]

That is completely your responsibility. The OP was about rentals - the priority is to reduce risk to guests and reduce liabilities for injuries or damage.

Removing the charging option, reduces risk. If guests decide to go ahead anyway, that is completely on their own risk and they are subject to any damages that may result to their vehicle or the property they've rented.

Which will not prevent them doing so if they think that is fine.
Not sure quoting regulations at people will stop them.

 

[IanSuth]

Which will not prevent them doing so if they think that is fine.
Not sure quoting regulations at people will stop them.

Nope but putting in rental contract "Sockets are not suitable for EV charging, if you do so and cause any damage you are liable" would give you a come back (and might be required by insurance)

Still think my idea of a dedicated charger and allow usage by others via that app when rental not occupied is better - looked it up and they are called co-charger

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

2) If permitted, and there is damage to the property from an overheating charger - maybe severe damage - would it be reasonable to pursue the owner of the car/charger in question not only for rebuilding /redecorating but for loss of earnings from bookings that would possibly be cancelled were the damage severe enough?

3) One probably for @Frank the Insurance guy - is anyone aware of any insurance aspects of this that might arise for the Owners?

Sorry, just seen this post!

If damage is caused by the holiday renter, this is no different to any damage they cause to the property - if they cause damage, they are responsible. However, the onus is on you to prove that they caused the damage. It would definitely be reasonable to pursue the owner for the cost of repairs and any lost earnings!

This really is a "business" decision as to whether you allow it or not.

I am seeing more and more cars with power leads leading into holiday let windows or through letterboxes, even the leads trailing across the road!! Madness really!

If you were to install a high power electrical car charging point, then let your insurer know - they will probably ask that it is installed by a professional company and you have an annual maintenance agreement on it.

At this point, no need to advise insurers if they are using a standard 13A plug.

 

[MBE2017]

Personally I would increase the daily charge approx £5 per night, and just allow it.

 

[ethical PR]

Among my assignments is some work with a holiday property rental agency portfolio: Rentals almost all one or two weeks.

A few Owners have now experienced Guests with electric vehicles, and charging them off the property supply: Discussion has thrown up a few issues:

1) Is it reasonable to refuse electric car charging at these properties? Is it fair that the Owner should be fuelling the Guest's car?

2) If permitted, and there is damage to the property from an overheating charger - maybe severe damage - would it be reasonable to pursue the owner of the car/charger in question not only for rebuilding /redecorating but for loss of earnings from bookings that would possibly be cancelled were the damage severe enough?

3) One probably for @Frank the Insurance guy - is anyone aware of any insurance aspects of this that might arise for the Owners?

I will be interested in opinions from a larger cross section of people - TIA

Hosts are installing proper charging points which guests can pay to use .

Obviously guests shouldn't be using the domestic supply and this should be made clear to guests on tire clients listings .

 

[Socio South West]

Hosts are installing proper charging points which guests can pay to use .

Obviously guests shouldn't be using the domestic supply and this should be made clear to guests on tire clients listings .

Thanks again to all contributors.

At this time the percentage of electric cars is not high, and the capital cost of a 'proper' charging point installation is maybe beyond most budgets as a stand alone project, but certainly one to work into any refurb or improvement.

The consensus from Owners we have spoken with is most definitely that electric car charging on the domestic supply should not be permitted for various reasons, and rental contracts for 2024 are being amended to reflect that: This will also be reinforced in the Guest information.

As one poster asked - How can it be prevented if there is no one else on site? Answer - it cant, It is necessary to slam any that get caught with a mandatory pre-determined deduction from Security Deposits.

 

[fisicx]

Can’t you install a current limiter? This would pop the circuit breaker if they try plugging in a charger.

 

[Socio South West]

Can’t you install a current limiter? This would pop the circuit breaker if they try plugging in a charger.

If it was me, I would... but we are talking a portfolio of 60 -70 second home owners with an average age of approaching 70, and trying to be nice to guests and trust them!

 

[WaveJumper]

it will be interesting to see going forward how many bookings are lost due to the unavailability of onsite charging of course you may not even know as like me they would just look else where for the service when booking.

 

[DontAsk]

Can’t you install a current limiter? This would pop the circuit breaker if they try plugging in a charger.

What happens when they plug the kettle in?

 

[fisicx]

Different circuit. Maybe load sensors. I'm sure there is technology that can determine if a socket is being used for continuous charging.

@Scubadog will be able to tell us

 

[MikeJ]

Apropos nothing, I charged mine using the OVO energy app on Tuesday (I'm with OVO here) and paid 10p/kwh for the charge. The app communicates with the can to control the charge, and only lets it charge when there's low demand on the grid. Saved £10 on that charge.

 

[MikeJ]

Different circuit. Maybe load sensors. I'm sure there is technology that can determine if a socket is being used for continuous charging.

@Scubadog will be able to tell us

Again... easiest way is to charge people for excess electricity used. Work out what a "reasonable" user would use, add a safety margin, and charge them for anything over. I'd have no issue paying the standard rate, it's cheaper than using a public charger most of the time (there's a few free ones knocking around) and much more convenient. When I'm away, the last thing I want to be doing is waiting around some place while my car charges.

 

[DontAsk]

Different circuit.

It's still only a 13A socket. If they really want to charge they will find a working socket.

 

[ethical PR]

Thanks again to all contributors.

At this time the percentage of electric cars is not high, and the capital cost of a 'proper' charging point installation is maybe beyond most budgets as a stand alone project, but certainly one to work into any refurb or improvement.

The consensus from Owners we have spoken with is most definitely that electric car charging on the domestic supply should not be permitted for various reasons, and rental contracts for 2024 are being amended to reflect that: This will also be reinforced in the Guest information.

As one poster asked - How can it be prevented if there is no one else on site? Answer - it cant, It is necessary to slam any that get caught with a mandatory pre-determined deduction from Security Deposits.

I manage a number of STRs and lots of hosts in holiday resorts are introducing them. Far better than having guests using your domestic electricity supply for free .

In some areas grants are available.

 

[Mr D]

Hosts are installing proper charging points which guests can pay to use .

Obviously guests shouldn't be using the domestic supply and this should be made clear to guests on tire clients listings .

Some may pay. However access to free electricity will be an option at most properties for those as don't need the car charged quickly.

People don't always follow what others tell them.

 

[chickenlady]

In June this year, we went to the Rosemount Peninsula a boat ride away from St Mawes in Cornwall for a wedding - not school holidays. It cost us nearly £500 for a holiday lodge for 2 nights - the cheapest we could get - and it was average at best. A week before we went, my husband's fully electric work car was delivered after a wait of some 18 months. It was a long drive from Buckinghamshire on a Friday night and we stopped twice to charge (actually we stopped 4 times but twice, all the chargers were in use or broken). When we got to our destination, there was no public charger within about an hour's drive, and no fast charger at all so an hour's charge would have only given us enough to get back to the accommodation - I used the 16 apps I have on my phone to check. We had no choice but to use the 3 point plug provided with the vehicle to give us enough charge to use for the wedding party and get us back to the main road to charge properly. The empty lodge opposite us had a charger but we had booked before we knew the car was arriving. Given the large sum of money we had paid for the accommodation, I didn't feel too bad about using £10 worth of electricity - if I'd taken a couple of teenagers with a PS5 each, it would've cost about the same or if we'd put the heater on for a few hours.
We've just come back from an autumn break. One of the criteria for booking was to check the availability of chargers - we didn't have one at the accommodation but there was a choice within 5 minutes walk.

It doesn't cost that much more to get a proper charger installed with 2 ports if you have the parking space - surely it would be a legitimate business expense and you will end up making a profit on the electricity cost - owners seem to be able to charge whatever they like. If there are very few chargers in your area, get in first! (You may need to check a lot of apps but there are apps that private individuals can register their charger for public use - CoCharger is one).

 

[Dory]

I am glad someone has brought this issue up - i rent a holiday caravan so this is relevant to me - i wasn't aware of the issues with charging a car from a 13amp socket - my caravan neighbour does it but maybe he has a special socket installed - i have now updated my guests terms to forbid charging electric cars - also not to charge batteries from electric scooters etc. which i think is more of a risk - obviously i cannot stop guests doing this but at least they have been told they would be liable for any damage - there are car charging points on site in the main car-park