Saving a client from themselves

[Ashley_Price]

Do you ever save a client or customer from themselves? Have they noticed when you did? Did you get praise or were they still not happy that you hadn't followed their instructions in spite of the fact you were correct and it saved the customer money?

I still have a couple of typing clients who we work for occasionally. One of them is an author (she uses a vanity publisher). She told us to print her book out in four-line spacing and send it to the publishers. I contacted the publishers and they asked me to email the manuscript over to them as they no longer accept paper copies and only use double-line spacing. I did as they asked, saving the client quite a bit of money on printing, postage, etc.

When the client contacted me to ask if I had done as they had asked, I explained what the publishers had told me to do. But the client got really cross that I hadn't followed her instructions and still demanded that I print out a copy to send. (The client doesn't use email or the internet herself). Grrr!

 

[contracthireacar.com]

Me personally, when I used to work for a website design agency, came across this kind of scenario all the time, with clients requesting websites swamped with pop-ups, garish colours, looped music and the like. We tried to steer them away and "save" them, but like with your own publishing client story, they were seldom grateful.

 

[The Byre]

I have learnt to say it once. Something like "I feel that this is a very bad idea!"

They disagree, so I toe the line and follow orders. If some daft person want four-line spacing, hey, who cares! It's her money she is wasting, so let her!

 

[woodss]

If there's one thing I've learned in business, it's to simply do as I'm told and get paid (maybe bring something up, but if they say no don't argue further). They soon come back when it goes teets up - and then have to pay again.

 

[Ashley_Price]

If some daft person want four-line spacing, hey, who cares! It's her money she is wasting, so let her!

Well, I also feel it's a big waste of paper. I print it, it gets thrown away either here or at the publishers. At four-line spacing the manuscript is nearly 1000 pages!

(Well, actually it won't get thrown away here, we'd use the other side. But still it's a lot of paper to print for no reason)

 

[tony84]

A lot of the time I mop up the mess afterwards. ie they applied directly to natwest, halifax, barclays and they then ask for help. By that point a lot of damage has been done as its 3 credit checks.

There are other times where I think the income for the work invovled would not be enough or the client could not afford to pay me what I would need. I try to give them some guidence without actually saying a specific lender, 10 minutes on the phone to me could save them hours or losing the home they want. They are also more likely to remember me and recommend me to friends and family.

I cant say I would go against their instructions without discussing it with them, but in saying that I live in a heavily regulated world and I would rather lose the business than end up with a complaint on my desk.

 

[The Byre]

One can usually save someone from making a totally absurd mistake by spelling out the financial consequences of their actions. I have just one such person on our books right now! He insists on giving our techs all instructions on paper, rather than using dedicated software. That means the he has had to pay thousands of pounds for a tech to assemble each and every command and interpret his woolly instructions - all written in tiny letters on page after page and on paper.

Then the last tech able and willing to do this absurd task left us. I told the customer that he has to either learn to use software and have that interim process cost just a few hundred pounds, or go elsewhere. He has now discovered the cost of going elsewhere and is learning to use software as we speak!

 

[NewGardenStyle]

As a side note I think manuscripts used to be submitted with 4 line spacing so there's room for the publisher / editor's notes?

 

[The Byre]

As a side note I think manuscripts used to be submitted with 4 line spacing so there's room for the publisher / editor's notes?

That's right - back in about 49BC, we had to have space for all the corrections and rephrasing that was all done by hand, using editor's marks. This person is obviously living in a world that ceased to exist a very long time ago!

In vanity publishing, there is no editing process. You write rubbish, they print rubbish!

 

[estwig]

I design loft conversions, house extensions and houses. I come up with a great design for the client, then if they change it and come up something which is utter cr*p. If they won't listen to me and think they know best, it suggests they are arrogant t*ssers and the whole project be a nightmare. So I'm off and leave them to it!

Don't fook with your designer!!!!!

 

[john1989]

Several years ago I worked for a large waste management company.


A client insisted on them self billing us rather than us invoicing them.


They regularly made mistake in our favour. For example paying us for 10 tonnes of copper instead of 1 tonne. Often this resulted in an overpayment to us of several thousand pounds, and sometimes tens of thousands.

The owner of our company insisted that we didn’t tell them of their mistakes and only told them of the mistakes that resulted in an underpayment to us.


Needless to say, I didn’t stay at the company very long.


At the time they had a large contract with an upmarket high street retailer. The contract was ~ £1.5m year. Around 6 months after leaving I heard they lost the contract because the retailer discovered that they were fiddling the figures.


A while ago I found out that the owner sacked the finance director and told him to leave immediately and he wouldn’t get a penny from the company. The owner had forgotten that he had given the FD a sizeable shareholding and he wasn’t going to give that up for nothing!

 

[NewGardenStyle]

Needless to say, I didn’t stay at the company very long.!

Hm, the unethical part of my brain is suggesting you might have left too early

 

[DH Marketing]

Yes, I've done this on several occasions, but have usually found it best not to tell the client...

 

[Ashley_Price]

As a side note I think manuscripts used to be submitted with 4 line spacing so there's room for the publisher / editor's notes?

The standard has always been double-line spacing (I've worked on a number of books over the years, and this has always been what publishers have asked for). It is only that the client herself has very big handwriting, so I assume she thinks everyone else is the same.

 

[IanG]

In that example I'd have probably have printed the 1000 pages and posted it knowing full well they were going to bin it.

Take the money, look happy.

If you've explained what the publisher will accept and she's still insisting on something else, what more can you do?

 

[Philip Hoyle]

The issue of business selling agents crops up quite often when a client is either thinking of selling their business, or is cold-called by one of those firms. I try to very diplomatically manage the client's expectations of likely sale price, likelihood of sale, and inform them of my experience of some of the more unscrupulous firms, many of whom charge exorbitant up front fees, promise they have lists of buyers just waiting for a business like theirs' - if not outright lieing to say that they've someone who knows the client's business and wants to buy it.

Nearly every time, client nods and says they'll tread carefully, but they just can't resist the temptation and the next thing I see is a payment of £5k, £10k or £20k to such an agent, and six month down the line, no buyer in sight, agent suggesting a price reduction (down to a more reasonable sum nearer what I suggested in the first place) and another fee "towards advertising" of another few K. Then a year or two later, still no buyer and they move to a more local, reputable business sales agent and sell for a sensible price, having paid the "proper" agent a commission based only on selling price. Even then, most don't realise they were conned by the first firm!

 

[beasty]

If they knew as much as you do they would not need you, it seems it should be part of the service

 

[Turnkey Businesses]

+1 various others. i learned from experience to suggest to the client the best course of action if they are clearly doing smething wrong, but at the end of the day if they are paying the money and insisting on a way to do it then just do it that way. if you change it after they refuse or change it without their knowledge then your just asking for trouble.

 

[Clinton]

The issue of business selling agents crops up quite often when a client is either thinking of selling their business, or is cold-called by one of those firms. I try to very diplomatically manage the client's expectations of likely sale price, likelihood of sale, and inform them of my experience of some of the more unscrupulous firms, many of whom charge exorbitant up front fees, promise they have lists of buyers just waiting for a business like theirs' - if not outright lieing to say that they've someone who knows the client's business and wants to buy it.

When business owners want to sell I assist them with their selling plans and/or match them with the broker best suited to their individual circumstances and exit goals. I maintain extensive data on almost all business brokers in the UK.

What you say is sadly very true. In fact I have a list here of some of the other "techniques" many brokers use to relieve clients of large chunks of money.

That said, there are some very good business brokers in the UK. Sometimes clients take my advice on this, sometimes they don't. Either way it's okay with me.

If they end up losing money because they acted against my advice I don't lose sleep over it because I did the right thing and gave them the unbiased advice they asked for. And that's more important than clients following "instructions". Entrepreneurs are often independent thinkers and don't always take the obvious, expected or logical route. But I wouldn't go against a client's specific instructions on the grounds that I'm the expert and I know best.

 

[LowPrices.uk]

If there's one thing I've learned in business, it's to simply do as I'm told and get paid (maybe bring something up, but if they say no don't argue further). They soon come back when it goes teets up - and then have to pay again.

This would also be my recommended approach. However, I now work for myself, which I prefer.

 

[Deleted member 252819]

If there's one thing I've learned in business, it's to simply do as I'm told and get paid (maybe bring something up, but if they say no don't argue further). They soon come back when it goes teets up - and then have to pay again.

^^This, this and this.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Sad from the responses how few people will try and HELP the client, and would rather just make money from them. (And also amazed at how they've happily admitted this on a public forum.)

 

[Deleted member 252819]

If you're referring to the quote I just posted, Ashley, I think it was intended as being tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Ashley_Price]

If you're referring to the quote I just posted, Ashley, I think it was intended as being tongue-in-cheek.

Not specifically you, Claire, look back at the other posts as to how many said they would just take the client's money.

 

[Deleted member 252819]

Not specifically you, Claire, look back at the other posts as to how many said they would just take the client's money.

I think it depends on the industry, to a degree. I can see why you wouldn't want to print something that's clearly wasteful. But sometimes, clients will insist they want grey font on a black background, and it's better to do what they ask - even if just to demonstrate that it doesn't work well.

 

[woodss]

If a client chooses to hire you, doesn't listen to your advice, and still wants a job done - is it unethical to continue doing the job for them? I don't think it is - for one thing, I as the service provider might actually turn out to be incorrect and the client will get benefit. That's ultimately their call though - I am simply the proxy by which the deed is done (that sounds awful) and I can only try my best while getting paid.

Unless of course the action is illegal in which case all bets are off.

 

[Carl Mintern]

We have always developed a relationship with our clients before work begins. A mixture of knowledge and confidence, coupled with a genuine concern with the clients happiness almost invariably leads to a position where the client trusts me. This trust is huge.

I believe strongly that any decision made objectively with all the facts is the right decision. I go to great lengths to explain the pros and cons of all available routes, and the possible outcomes and likely hoods etc. It helps that I am quite persuasive. I can't remember the last time a client decided to do something I felt strongly was a bad decision.

It can help to make it clear that the client has all the power.

Whenever I spot a client on the cusp of making a bad decision, my go to play is as follows-

A) reassure the client of their power.
" Before we discuss the options in depth, I just want you to know that we will do whatever you would like us to do. If you want us to take the whole wall down, and place a lucky rabbits foot in the foundation then re-build it, then that's what we'll do"

B) explain all the other options available
" We could of course leave the wall up, or place the rabbits foot in a display case and hang it on the wall"

C) explain the consequences of the 'unfavourable choice'
" As the wall is not structurally unsound, and you had not mentioned the rabbits foot until this point, there will be a significant cost implication to rebuilding it. In addition it will hold up building the roof by several days."

D) the 'what I would do' bit
" If it were me, and I felt strongly about the dead rabbit bits, I'd either bury them next to the wall, or cremate it and drink the ashes with cola, I heard this not only increases the luckiness, but also improves sexual performance."

E) Then if necessary, hammer home the downside of their choice
"But if you really want to proceed with the foundation re-pour I will have a team here Monday to begin demolition. You should be aware though, that this means you won't be able to move in for Christmas so your children will probably grow up hating you and your wife will probably run off with Jason the Bricky as his house is finished"

"So what would you like to do?"

 

[Octa]

On multiple occasions during the pre-quote stage.

Many home security clients initially opt for overkill... and while it's more money for us I do try to make sure they aren't being overly ambitious. We have much dispute about locations of CCTV cameras in particular!

 

[Peter Durrant]

Its called tough love, its necessary in all areas of life isn't it?

 

[Clinton]

Sad from the responses how few people will try and HELP the client, and would rather just make money from them. (And also amazed at how they've happily admitted this on a public forum.)

Ashley, indeed.

But sometimes we've got to bear in mind that when we get paid for advice, we get paid for advice. It's entirely up to the client whether to implement the advice or not.

Recently I assisted someone sell their seafront hotel. I advised against describing the hotel as "stunning and beautiful" in the headline of the teaser ad. The professional photo that accompanied the ad said that already, it was a stunning photo. But the client insisted on wasting valuable space in the headline. Arrgh!

But that's the way it is in life. I must admit though that on occasion I've resigned from providing advice when non-implementation of the advice would have impacted on my own reputation. With the likes of webdesigners, I can appreciate if they refuse to let the client have his way - the designer has his signature on the work of art.