Restaurant (Italian) help needed!

[JpeeL]

Ok so I've been thrown in at the deep end, I've worked at my dads restaurant for a few years now, he's owned it for decades and ran it stubbornly his way.

He got taken ill a month ago (he's out of hospital and doing better now) and I suddenly found myself in full control of the place.

My issue is because him and the restaurant had it's hay day in the 80s it's still stuck in that period, like those places you see on Gordon Ramsay etc. From the decor to the menu the place is very dated, it's been left behind by other new places in the area but thankfully still just about profitable due to regulars and our good reputation.

Tbh I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all, I need to create a drink menu and update the food menu and the end goal is doing a revamp of the decor if I make it that far without burning the place down!

I'm looking for ideas on a drink menu, gin being in fashion needs to be on there but there are just so many I don't know which is popular, same with pale ale/craft lager no idea what to go with on a menu, there's so many and they're all costly. Same with cocktails it's endless.

Is it just trial and error or can any one reccomened some fool proof options to start out with. Or maybe even some kind of info site that shows the top selling drinks?

Is there a site to design and make the actual menus anyone can recommend?

 

[Alan]

Is it just trial and error or can any one reccomened some fool proof options to start out with.

I don't know anything about trendy drinks, but i would suggest research - visit successful venues and see ( even ask ) what are the most popular. A fool proof option to start with is to copy a successful competitor.

Is there a site to design and make the actual menus anyone can recommend?

Again, not my line, but I will throw in VistaPrint as they do everything and are well known ( http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/menus.aspx ) they are also much hated by many - so by mentioning them may well encourage others to come up with alternatives.

Tbh I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all, I need to create a drink menu and update the food menu and the end goal is doing a revamp of the decor if I make it that far without burning the place down!

Do you have a local business association, in my town we do and generally all the businesses are friendly and share advice.

 

[lpbusiness]

Visit similar restaurants locally - or go further afield if needs be - and see what they stock. Honestly your best bet is to carry out some market research. Why don't you ask your customers for some feedback too? See what they would like to see on the menu or what they enjoy. Try and get a diverse range of participants and analyse your results!

Don't jump straight in with these things because the decisions are expensive!

 

[Mr D]

Don't forget online research. Places with menus etc on their website.

Good luck.

 

[Newchodge]

If it is still getting regulars, they need to be your first port of call. Ask what they would like to see changed. It is pointless developing a new menu and drinks list if the result is that your regulars all leave and you attract 5 new clients!

 

[JpeeL]

That's the thing though I've tried asking people and they never seem to know what they like unless it's on a menu in front of them. Most like to act like experts but when push comes to shove they aren't haha.

 

[ICController]

As above really, have a look at your competition. See what they are doing and make a copy of it with your on style and stamp on it.

The drinks and menu is from previous experience a regional thing, yes as you said Gin is the "In" drink at the moment so by all means have Gin as an option.

As easy as it is to say, go have a night out! Have a look around the places that seem to be doing well. Chat to the clientele in those places ask what they like dislike, also get a bit of background information on your place. Ask them if they have ever considered going, if not why not???

Pretend you’re new to the area and don’t know the good places around.

Be prepared to have a few knock backs though when asking about your own place. I did once and was shocked with the information I had come back, turns out it was one particular person who most of the bad press stemmed from.....


There is a site online that can tell you the in drinks, THE MORNING ADVERTISER is a good place to start.


Also as Alan said:

Again, not my line, but I will throw in VistaPrint as they do everything and are well known they are also much hated by many - so by mentioning them may well encourage others to come up with alternatives.


Vista print is a good start if you have little idea of design etc. They may have mass produced styles, but they work and people buy from them all the time. It’s a cheap alternative if you want to test the water before going to a profession printer for the final print!

Good luck with it all and I hope all goes well for your Dad.

 

[Mark T Jones]

So, you have a mammoth task ahead of you. From experience the first thing you need to do is speak with your Father and be sure that he will 100% back the changes you intend to make - not being alarmist but in a family business this is essential.

Second., clearly define who your target market is. You evidently have a residual customer base; do you intend to rebuild that market or to target a totally different demographic? Until you have a customer profile it is impossible to suggest what they might want. Which drink sells best nationally is irrelevant - what matters is which drinks your customers like.

Once you have established back, start looking and asking. Go to the places they go; copy the good stuff, improve the not so good stuff.

Also, assuming you want to remain an Italian restaurant, authenticity is always important

 

[Mark_Taylor_]

Yeah.. watch Gordon's Kitchen Nightmares.. as you mentioned in amongst the over the top entertainment there are nuggets of good info in the show.

Also if your'e in an area to catch the work lunch and afterwork crowds, then a happy hour menu with 2 for 1 drinks seems to be all the rage in city centre restaurants at least.
Quick lunch specials for people with limited lunch break also seem to do well in Newcastle (where my office is).

 

[Ian J]

The drinks and menu is from previous experience a regional thing, yes as you said Gin is the "In" drink at the moment so by all means have Gin as an option.

I had lunch in a fairly expensive restaurant yesterday and as a gin lover had a good look at their offerings. They had about 10 different gins with Beefeater and Gordons at the cheaper end going up in price with a couple at each price point. Don't forget to serve a premium tonic as well like Fentimans or Fevertree.

I'm getting thirsty thinking about it and I've only just had breakfast

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I'm not a drinker anymore, use to be but had to calm it due to health about 20+ years ago... at the time I worked in a pub, and we decided to make some cocktails to see if we could sell more spirits, influence people to drink more etc etc.

We made a large bottle of a version of a "dirty leprechaun" (jagermeister, baileys & creme de menthe) and sold them for £1.00 a shot... they flew out! .. so we continued to make these for every weekend.

We then made the usual Black russians at £3.00, white russians etc etc... they didn't sell as well but the odd few went out... then we thought about making our own...

So, I put together... Aftershock, Vodka, Lemonade & Lime over ice... being a pub, they sold quite well actually... even got it's own name given to it... by the local drunk who loved them... said they blew his head before the ice kicked in... so he named it...

"Momentary Lapse of Reason" - (Pink floyd)

Don't be afraid to try new things, as mentioned before make sure your Dad's 100% behind you... get ready for complaints from old customers and praises from new ones... don't take a complaint as a negative - take it as valued constructive criticism... and build on it, invite them back if it's a complaint against menu choice and offer to make them anything they want at half price, remember to defend your Dad's business and reputation with food and drink.

 

[Mark_Taylor_]

Mmmm Gin

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Regarding the food

Why not take a cheap flight to italy and try a few popular restaurants and see if you can get some idea's about whats top dog over there and try and get instructions on how its made, as you are no competition it should be easy, authentic will nearly always beat converted to english style that many chefs adopted many years ago

Take your phone and photograph the top restaurants menu's would be a good starter for drinks and idea's

Small changes at a time are often better than jumping in with both feet and talk to dad

What have you been doing for the last few years, just sitting back and not observing, you need to get your management hat on and start looking around

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Or alternatively with Chris' idea...

send me...

I love Italy and the food... I'm the best person to go for you... as I will hold no grudges when I return with a full belly.

 

[Ian J]

Take your phone and photograph the top restaurants menu's would be a good starter for drinks and idea's

Many Italian restaurants both in the UK and abroad will have websites with their menus online

 

[Newchodge]

Many Italian restaurants both in the UK and abroad will have websites with their menus online

Spoilsport

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Ahh but you need to talk to chef and watch him make them to get authentic meal

So send me pay my flight and accommodation and i will pay for my own meals

 

[i am director 4]

Simply authentic food, good ingredients, good service, non cheesy decor
if in doubt visit Italy

Copying a successful competitor is not a full proof method, they may be successful despite what they do not because of what they do

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I'm quite happy for you to just pay for the flights @JpeeL - unline @Chris Ashdown ... I'm not greedy, I'll live on the streets for a couple of days... as long as I get my linguini or Lasagne I'm happy!

In fact... sod it, a one way ticket will do... I'll erm... walk back!

 

[The Byre]

Most people who wind up on these shows like Restaurant Nightmare and Kitchen Impossible, are so far gone that their ultimate demise is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

They all seem to make the same or very, very similar mistakes. They either don't own the building, or they are so deeply in debt that they have absolutely no equity in the building. They all have massive menus, with some idiots even having multiple menus. They never seem to calculate the margin on dishes or study how to up-sell from low margin main courses to high margin entrees and afters. The kitchens are often an organisational disaster and some are just filthy. The interiors are cluttered and no thought is given to decor and style.

And then there is the food!

OK, these places on those TV shows are extreme cases - for America. In Britain, most restaurants serve atrocious food. OK, not all, but definitely most.

A few restaurants in the UK are World class and the food is perfect or damn near to perfect. Most however are far from that ideal.

take a cheap flight to Italy and try a few popular restaurants and see if you can get some idea's about whats top dog over there and try and get instructions on how its made, as you are no competition it should be easy, authentic will nearly always beat converted to English style that many chefs adopted many years ago

Bingo! That advice is golden! Don't compare yourself to the local greasy spoon joint, but to good restaurants in Italy.

Failed chefs have one thing in common - they don't know how to eat!

Here are the five common mistakes of failed chefs -

1. They can't taste the difference between fresh and frozen (often because they smoke - if a chef smokes, fire him!) The only things that should be in a freezer are certain meats and then for only a short time. If a lobster or crab ain't moving, you should not be putting it in a pot.

2. They honestly think that sauces come out of a tin or bottle. Mayonnaises and other sauces must always be made fresh that day. It takes five mins to take olive oil, egg yokes, etc. and make a mayo and the eggs whites can be used for the ice-cream.

3. They buy factory bread, instead of making proper sour-dough loafs fresh every day. The same applies to noodles and pizza bases.

4. They have an account with the local C&C and/or Brakes (or some similar purveyor of poisonous junk).

5. You don't see them first thing in the morning, buying fresh vegetables at the local farmers' market.

So look at things this way - I bake my own bread, brew my own beer and make my own wine. Today, I am prepping the blackcurrant wine that we shall be having at Christmas. Everything is 100% fresh at all times.

I serve very good food at home, but if I go out to eat at a restaurant, I expect better food than I serve at home.

So, bearing all that in mind - here are my top five signs of a bad restaurant -

1. The menu stretches over umpteen pages. Ideally, it should all fit on two A4 pages. More than that and I know that they are overreaching themselves and have to take short-cuts. The perfect menu was printed that week to cover what is fresh at the time and is just four A4 pages, with the name and logo on the front, two pages of dishes and a back page for the wine list and other bits and pieces.

2. The food comes with doofus sprigs of parsley on the potatoes and other dishes. Even worse, is when there are flower petals on some dishes! Pointless decorations like that are sure-fire signs of covering up for bad food!

3. The waiter insists on performing some magic and pointless ritual at the table, such as milling the salt and pepper, carving meat, or otherwise doing something idiotic. Just serve the food in a personable and friendly manner and then go away.

4. Every waiter has to up-sell, if the joint is to make a profit, but that does not mean he/she should be coming round with a trolley of cakes or a coloured brochure of puddings, like a flight attendant on Ryan Air. Again, a friendly and personable reminder of what is available in afters and drinks should do.

5. A long and comprehensive list of cocktails tells me that they are not concentrating on the food. People go to restaurants to eat. In an Italian restaurant, I expect to see Italian wines, Italian beers and suitable soft drinks. Cocktails are for singles- and gay-bars.

 

[tony84]

https://selectitaly.com/blog/all-you-can-italy/italian-drinks/
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/explore/italian-drinks/
http://www.italianbev.co.uk/

Have a look on google for some inspiration.

Obviously you will need italian wine and peroni in addition.

A trip to italy on the books for "research purposes"?

 

[Ian J]

5. A long and comprehensive list of cocktails tells me that they are not concentrating on the food. People go to restaurants to eat. In an Italian restaurant, I expect to see Italian wines, Italian beers and suitable soft drinks. Cocktails are for singles- and gay-bars.

You may go to a restaurant to eat but many others including myself go to eat and drink. As I mentioned earlier I had lunch yesterday at an expensive(ish) Italian restaurant near me and started off with a gin and tonic in the bar before moving into the dining area to eat

 

[The Byre]

started off with a gin and tonic in the bar

A G&T, dry Martini, or a single malt, or similar after-dinner 'sweetie' is not a cocktail, but one of the usual drinks from the back page. The OP was asking about exotic daft drinks involving liquid nitrogen, flames and a freshly squeezed canary.

 

[i am director 4]

The Byre sounds like you are just summarising the stuff that goes wrong on TV shows.

Many successful Italian restaurants have long drinks lists, in fact it is a standard in good Italian restaurants to have few food items but a huge variety of drinks

Many successful Italian restaurants have a sense of theatre (contradicting your point 3) and prepare or finish something at the table.

You are clearly not in this business a long post of your opinion is still just your opinion

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I personally have never been to an Italian restaurant where they toss my Lasagne or pasta at the table...

I've been to loads myself personally, and I go for the food not the drink... I may have the odd beer, but If I go to an Indian, Italian, even a Burger Bar... it's for the food and only the food.

I'm not in the business - but as a potential customer of a new Italian... I'm sure anyone would agree, it's what the customer wants... not what is generic...

I can cook my own pasta I can make my own Lasagne, doesn't mean I don't know what a restaurant should be providing though... does it?

 

[ethical PR]

The Byre sounds like you are just summarising the stuff that goes wrong on TV shows.

Many successful Italian restaurants have long drinks lists, in fact it is a standard in good Italian restaurants to have few food items but a huge variety of drinks

Many successful Italian restaurants have a sense of theatre (contradicting your point 3) and prepare or finish something at the table.

You are clearly not in this business a long post of your opinion is still just your opinion

Hello

I eat out two or three times a week in restaurants.

I have eaten in many Italian restaurants over the years in Italy and in the UK. I've never once had food finished at the table.

Whether modern or traditional Italian food. Pizza and pasta based or regional Italian I have never seen menu's which only have a few food items and a much more extensive drinks list.

It's common to have antipasto, pasta, meat, fish, specials and deserts as well as a wine list, soft drinks and spirits.

What's important is to do your research and develop a restaurant concept that works for your target market and differeniates you from your local competition.

And of course location is king.

By the way you asked for opinions on a public forum, so no need to provide a sarcastic response to established member of this forum, because you don't like what they have to say.

 

[The Byre]

Thanks @ethical PR - though TBH I do enjoy defending myself!

He is right, in that I do not run a restaurant, but I have had extensive experience in and around the restaurant business in the past, supplying or advising. That may have been a while back, but the rules have not changed. As many here have pointed out, a restaurant is nearly all about the food. Other things come into it, like decor, atmosphere, service - but a restaurant stands and falls by its food.

If there is one creature that is doomed to failure, it is the outsider, that thinks he/she can run a restaurant. Often, these are people who have been successful in other fields and have money to spare and they think (after watching one-too-many Gordon Ramsey programmes) that they can manage a restaurant.

These people make fundamental mistakes that you do not see on television, like buying from the wrong suppliers, opting for the cheapest offers and forgetting fundamental issues like air extraction, electricity supplies, washing facilities and of course, even if they have the nous to hire a manager and a chef, they interfere, to the deep annoyance of the staff.

But the OP seems to be an experienced restaurateur, so good luck, but my 30 cents worth is to not worry too much about cocktails!

 

[Nochexman]

My issue is because him and the restaurant had it's hay day in the 80s it's still stuck in that period, like those places you see on Gordon Ramsay etc. From the decor to the menu the place is very dated, it's been left behind by other new places in the area but thankfully still just about profitable due to regulars and our good reputation.

Tbh I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all, I need to create a drink menu and update the food menu and the end goal is doing a revamp of the decor if I make it that far without burning the place down!

I know it isn't what you asked, but the absolute key to the food and drinks menus is what you want the place to be. Being italian is no longer a thing; you need to make it 'something' italian - traditional, modern, healthy, young, specialist, cheap, expensive - whatever you choose will inform your menu choices. Best of luck.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Whatever he does he has customers who like it as it is, so he needs to move slowly to avoid as much as possible making them move away unless the changes bring in far more customer

Even big tv chefs have spent millions and got it wrong at a new addition to there companies

 

[The Byre]

I forgot you have extensive experience in everything, but it is always way in the past but ultimately you will have experience in the field being discussed, nothing changes on this forum.

I ran a news agency and market research company and one of the fields we covered was catering and the restaurant trade in general. We also covered subjects I would not want to comment on, such as aeronautics, construction machinery and mobile phones, as I did not do the research or write copy for those fields. Before that, I also supplied the bar trade with musical systems.

I do apologise for upsetting you by knowing about a great many fields, ranging from broadcast equipment, to CGI software and from horses to electro-mechanical engineering. I won't tell you about my time in broadcasting or the music business and I'll stay away from my work as an actor and theatre producer, or mention my work in acoustics and microphone design, as we would only run the risk of you biting the office carpet, sticking straws in your hair and telling us that you are the Emperor of Abyssinia!

As for what I am full of - I think beans is the answer!

P.S. Did I tell you that I can leap tall buildings at a single bound and can perform full-contact origami?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

You forgot being a parachutist, captain of Concords last flight and knowledgeable of the south china sea 8 legged starfish trippyupalotwhenwalking. so don't be so shy in future

 

[Ian J]

As for what I am full of - I think beans is the answer!

I assume that your wife sleeps in a separate room then

 

[patientlady]

Hi jpeeL
What area are you in?
I know exactly where your coming from. We have a number of Italian restaurants in our area in the same situation, having not really moved with the times.
I imagine you will have long standing relationships with your suppliers, and unfortunately they may have taken your father for granted on pricing and offering. Call in another drinks supplier, they will be delighted to update your drinks offering, they will print new drinks menus for you and there representative will know the area, what others are offering, and will be competitive. Maybe have at least two suppliers for wines, spirits, softs, wines and beer.
Take a look at what drinks you actually sell, I would take a guess that a very high percentage would be the House white, a Pinot Grigio, a Red and a Rose. Prosecco, Peroni the odd G&T, Martini and soft drinks. Update by just offering some new alternatives and get rid of all the spirits/cocktails mixes thats you have accumulated on the bar over the years. Transform the look not necessarily your core drinks offering. Update how you serve that G&T and offer an alternative. Fever tree for example will print free of charge a simple drinks menu for you. Keep it simple initially anyway. A good supplier If you are local to me I can put you in touch with a local independent supplier that would simply transform your offering, whilst understanding budget, and be delighted for the opportunity.
This would be the same for food etc
good luck and I hope your father gets well soon p/lx

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We do visit a number of restaurants every month and find two distinct types, one very modern with very loud music tending to the under 25 or never grow up 30's they tend to sell very basic food quickly in big places lots of cocktails and fancy beers and often filled with birthday parties

Most of the others we visit tend to be quite family run places that have the odd family party, most seem to buy one drink at reception bar and the a bottle of house wine at the table the parties tend to by white house for the girls and red for the buys and the odd pint

So what I am trying to say is don't try to be something your not

I would never forget that a drinks supplier is trying to get the most sales going and will push any slow moving stock your way at the first opportunity just like any other supply business, yes they want your long term business but the salesman just wants this months commission

 

[patientlady]

Hi Chris, only unscrupulous sales people do what you are suggesting. On trade drinks suppliers in my experience would never do this as it would be so pointless as to suggest a drink that wouldn't sell - What would be the point in that?
On trade account managers are not on monthly commission, the margins are low. They are account managers, not sales people most of which have been in the trade for many years and respected. It can sometimes take years to get a new account, why would someone destroy that for a crate of Bazuka booze. Sorry I felt I need...

 

[Mark T Jones]

You have to laugh at the number of people confidently telling the OP what they should / shouldn't sell without even knowing who the target market is

 

[Rickden]

In order for your startup to succeed, you'll need to offer Italian diners something extra. Although there are many ways to differentiate your startup, gourmet pizzas, an emphasis on authenticity and other quality-based selling points can be useful for making your restaurant stand out from the rest of the field.

 

[Ian J]

In order for your startup to succeed, you'll need to offer Italian diners something extra.

This startup has been running for decades in the OP's own words and must be relatively successful to be still around

 

[webdesignnewcastle]

I recommend you look at following, drinks menu

Polpo, Beak Street, London
Rotorino, London
Artigiano, Belsize Park, London
Bocca di Lupo, Soho, London
Ziani, Chelsea, London
Passione Vino, Leonard St, London

 

[Zmg]

Ok so I've been thrown in at the deep end, I've worked at my dads restaurant for a few years now, he's owned it for decades and ran it stubbornly his way.

He got taken ill a month ago (he's out of hospital and doing better now) and I suddenly found myself in full control of the place.

My issue is because him and the restaurant had it's hay day in the 80s it's still stuck in that period, like those places you see on Gordon Ramsay etc. From the decor to the menu the place is very dated, it's been left behind by other new places in the area but thankfully still just about profitable due to regulars and our good reputation.

Tbh I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all, I need to create a drink menu and update the food menu and the end goal is doing a revamp of the decor if I make it that far without burning the place down!

I'm looking for ideas on a drink menu, gin being in fashion needs to be on there but there are just so many I don't know which is popular, same with pale ale/craft lager no idea what to go with on a menu, there's so many and they're all costly. Same with cocktails it's endless.

Is it just trial and error or can any one reccomened some fool proof options to start out with. Or maybe even some kind of info site that shows the top selling drinks?

Is there a site to design and make the actual menus anyone can recommend?

Hi Jpeel, not sure where you are based but I am English/Italian and have lived in both countries and I am happy to answer any questions