Rented Business Unit - Access

[josh3170]

Hi Everyone,

Just after a bit of advice please, - sorry for the long post!!

We currently rent a few small units (approx 4000sq ft in total) in an old factory that has been split down into smaller units. We have been in the building for approx. 12years. Starting off with one unit and expanding and taking on more units as time has gone on. It has a main access door for all tennants to get in via a secure key swipe system on mag locks.
On the 2nd Jan all the tennants received and email saying the "fire doors by the toilets and wicket gate doors will be replaced on the 6th Jan" they doors never got replaced until last thursday 30th Jan due to the supplier of doors was waiting on some parts. Any way, the "wicket gate doors" meant the main access doors to the building, which in the 12 years I have been there no one has ever refered to them as that. The old doors were approx 2.5meters high & 2 meters wide, the new doors are now 2meters high and 2 meters wide.

However, our bread and butter products we build and manufacture vary from 1.8meters high to 2.4meters high, and obviously our products will not fit out the door now thus stopping us getting jobs out!!
We only found out the doors were being replaced on the 2nd jan in the email, and to which everyone assumed like for like as none of us tennants were told this was happening nor seen any new designs/specs for the doors, and none of us knew the main door ("wicket gate") was going to be replaced.

I went to the reception and viewed by problems to which their first reply was basically oh well, tough, and when I said I wont be able to pay rent as goods wont go out and in turn I wont be paid, it turned into "we'll just kick you out" sort of responce.

We have been in there for 12 years, and the Landlord knows what we build as we have in the past, have discussed with them about modifying our internal doors to make it higher to the unit whenever we take on a new unit, to accomendate getting our products out into the main corridoor then out the main doors, he has also come down many times and viewed our products during build and completion with other members of the board of directors and have always said its a good job we have plenty of access and hight to get stuff in and out. - so its not like they didnt know our products we not tall.

I know its their building and can most likely do as they wish, but can they just change the doors without prior warning / notice / design and where we stand on not being able to get our products out for invoicing and job completions! - we'd of never moved in if these doors were orginally fitted!

Any advice would be great, as ideally we'd like to stay in the building as its secure, and in a great spot!

Thanks!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Stop wasting your time on a forum, find a commercial solicitor, show them your lease and get them to act for you after getting their suggestions to solve the problem

In the meantime find a way to get it to work with the current restrictions as no solution will be found in a short period of time

Will turning the goods at 45 degrees give you space to get them in and out?

 

[The Byre]

(Health warning - I am only going on what you have written so far - the details of the situation may change the legal realities!)

As they know the size of the goods you transport, they are probably denying you 'reasonable access'.

As you are effectively being put out of business by this 'improvement' you can (1) stop paying the rent and (2) sue for damages.

As @Chris Ashdown states, go to a commercial solicitor and get a letter drafted that enumerates the total costs that you intend to litigate for and have that letter delivered as quickly as possible.

Perhaps the time has come to buy your own place and develop some equity in the business?

 

[josh3170]

Hi both , thanks for getting back, it is appreciated!

My first thoughts were to find a commercial solicitor but just wanted to see what other people views were/if any one had encountered something similar.

With regards to turn products sideways, it is possible on some items in the forthcoming time, however, some weigh in the regain of 100kgs to just over half a tonne when complete, which when being on our own sometimes with another now and then, it would be a H+S nightmare trying to do and if something were to go wrong, and most likely sometimes be impossible.

I did send an email about stop paying rent, only to attract their attention as in the past they ignore any issues unless money stops to which they're response was "we will just deny access to building and evict you end of month"

I'd love to be able to buy somewhere, however with costs and there never seems to be anything decent come up round us, its normally big warehouses with 30,000 sq ft+!

We have a meeting with them this friday, to discuss what to do, where everything stands with regards to access, then I will look fully into getting legal help, as to which I can only imagine the worst for us going on their track record,

Thanks both again, I really do appreciate it, and will keep you posted what occurs!

Josh

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

You need to speak to a commercial property solicitor. It may be that you can agree to some sort of rent reduction until the matter is resolved amicably. However, if you do nothing it will not end well for either of you. Nor, will simply posting on a forum.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I'd love to be able to buy somewhere, however with costs and there never seems to be anything decent come up round us, its normally big warehouses with 30,000 sq ft+!


Josh

I'd take that particular suggestion with huge pinch of salt. Not that it's never a good idea, but you need to think very seriously whether you actually want to be in the business of owning/managing commercial property

 

[josh3170]

You need to speak to a commercial property solicitor. It may be that you can agree to some sort of rent reduction until the matter is resolved amicably. However, if you do nothing it will not end well for either of you. Nor, will simply posting on a forum.

We are waiting to see what comes from our meeting on Friday beofre we take any action and hopefully they might offer us a sensible solution going forward. (unlikely!)

 

[josh3170]

I'd take that particular suggestion with huge pinch of salt. Not that it's never a good idea, but you need to think very seriously whether you actually want to be in the business of owning/managing commercial property

it would be nice, but realistically, not in our pipe lines for our foreseeable at present!!!

 

[Mark T Jones]

it would be nice, but realistically, not in our pipe lines for our foreseeable at present!!!

It can also be a massive distraction and drain on cashflow. Best to get your business right before buying illiquid assets!

 

[The Byre]

We are waiting to see what comes from our meeting on Friday beofre we take any action and hopefully they might offer us a sensible solution going forward. (unlikely!)

I know what I would say - "Dear Mr. Ferretvacuum, as much as I appreciate your difficulties, you must realise that you are putting us out of business. I have a rather stark choice - either I have to move my company and sue you for considerable six-figure damages, or I immediately get a new door installed and take the costs off the rent. Which one of the above would you prefer?"

 

[josh3170]

I know what I would say - "Dear Mr. Ferretvacuum, as much as I appreciate your difficulties, you must realise that you are putting us out of business. I have a rather stark choice - either I have to move my company and sue you for considerable six-figure damages, or I immediately get a new door installed and take the costs off the rent. Which one of the above would you prefer?"

I like this response very much! I am going to try and keep my cool until after our meeting friday before I make any rash statements/decision towards them.

I have told him, effectively you have stopped us trading, and we wont be able to pay this months rent as we cant physically get our goods out to be paid ourselves.

I just wanted to see if we had a "case" and get other peoples views, as my contact with the place really only states what i can/cant do and nothing relating to their responsibilities etc.

thanks again!

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

What have they used as an infill above the doors?

I'm pretty sure you could modify this to suit your needs, rather than having a new door built.

 

[josh3170]

What have they used as an infill above the doors?

I'm pretty sure you could modify this to suit your needs, rather than having a new door built.

it is glass, i have suggested to them can we not remove the glass and keep the exisiting door and "extend" it by just adding on a smaller door on top and somehow bolt it to the new exisiting door, but it was quickly dismissed (i think mainly as it wasnt his idea and hes an ex counciller / former mayor of the town and like these types of people cant admit when theyve messed up/take responsablity)

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

So, they've put in a fan light?

Stupid is, as stupid does TBH!

Personally, if it was me... I would remove it, put in a hinged false panel to look like the door continues to the top of the frame that rebates against the new door set to hold it in... with sliding bolts internally so the door is still secure when not in use.

But, that's me...

 

[josh3170]

So, they've put in a fan light?

Stupid is, as stupid does TBH!

Personally, if it was me... I would remove it, put in a hinged false panel to look like the door continues to the top of the frame that rebates against the new door set to hold it in... with sliding bolts internally so the door is still secure when not in use.

But, that's me...

Exactly, a quick and simple fix and helps everyone out, and if we or any one else was to move out the building make the units more desirable to a large scale of people!!!

to be fair, the new doors do look a lot better then the old ones, and are more than likely more secure, just not practical, also the new doors have alot more glass in which, isnt ideal as any "bad guys" have a better idea how to access the building, and see whats in the building!! I wish I had a pic of the old doors so i could show how it was to now, I only have a pic of what its like now.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

lets have a look then

 

[The Byre]

There is, of course, a third option - as you have a contractual right by virtue of existing circumstances to access for 2.5m high vehicles, I would take my tractor (2.4m high) and drive through the damn thing.

Then say you are sorry and fix it the way @Root 66 Woodshop suggested. You would have to pay of course, but it solves the problem quickly and cheaply!

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Whilst the sensible and practical solution seems to be to offer to modify the new doors to meet your requirements, it sounds like the Landlord has a better offer for your space and wants you to leave.

 

[josh3170]

Hi everyone,

sorry for my late reply I had to go away for work and have only just found a spare moment to update you all!!

We had our meeting yesterday, and I was all geared up for "tough your out" & arguments sort of approach from the building and landlords but to my utter surprise he came in and said "we've completely f***ed up, didn't take into consideration your needs, the doors should have of been "like for like", I was rash when we meet last week" etc etc very apologetic and couldn't of took any more of the blame if they tried, (rightly so!) which was completely out of the blue and out of charterer on his past record!!

Unfortunately, he said its going to cost to much to replace the doors, however, he has offered us a solution by removing our back wall in the unit (which is only studding and plaster board) to which leads into a "post room" which will have new high double doors with plenty of space, this leads to a gap which is approx 1.3meter wide and currently 2.2m high brick work which they are going to up the height to 2.5meter, width isn't an issue as most our kit is only 1.2m deep, so length wouldn't be an issue, this then leads to a roller shutter door to the out side of the building. - a bit of work for them to undertake.

We think it will work, and at least he has come up with a solution and more importantly he took the blame!

I dare say he had the week to think it over, realised they are completely in the wrong, wouldn't have a leg to stand on, (i think) if it was to go further, and being a councillor and most of the other directors for the building are also on the local council,(which i didn't realise!) most likely wouldn't want the bad publicity as they are all sort of pro small business help etc.

I'm just trying to work out how to put pictures up and post them shortly - do i need to post the pics online somewhere then share a link?

Thanks again for your help and advice!

Josh

 

[Mr D]

Wow, a workable solution - unexpected but great news.

 

[eteb3]

I'm no lawyer, but it might be no bad idea to see a solicitor anyway. If you acquiesce in the change (by using it without protest) I'm pretty sure that will count as an agreed variation to the lease.

If you're sure it's a good solution and that you can live with it long-term, maybe fine - but land law has weird quirks, and in your position I'd want to be absolutely sure I knew what was going on legally.

As a bare minimum, minute the meeting and send it over to him by email, asking him to let you know if he doesn't think it's an accurate record of your discussions.

 

[Alison Moore]

Great news!