Recommended accounting software for a new limited company?

[Kerwin]

I don't know anything about accounting software, so I'm looking for recommendations that work on Windows 10. I'll need something that can handle running a small limited company with no employees.

I'd prefer to pay one off but if the only decent options require a monthly payment then I guess I can go with that.

 

[Somos Accounting]

I work with both FreeAgent and Xero and find them both to be great. Both are cloud based so can be accessed from anywhere and carry a monthly subscription.

It depends on the business activity and what the clients needs as to which one I'd go with.

 

[Newchodge]

Do you have an accountant yet? Finding the right accountant should be a priority. They can then recommend appropriate software - something that they can access is a good idea!

 

[estwig]

You got it the wrong way round.

Bean-counter first, then whatever app they recommend. Mine likes Xero, I suspect she is getting a drink out of it, which is fine by me.

 

[Clinton]

My advice would be different to that of the vast majority here.

Unless you need online access to your accounts, and all that BS about being able to access it from anywhere or any device, you don't need a subscription service!

Accountants who recommend a subscription service like Xero for even those businesses that don't need the features ...need to be taken out to a remote field somewhere and shot. So, no, don't start with an accountant, too many have imbibed vast quantities of the kool aid (and kickbacks)! Fortunately, though I studied bean counting I never actually practiced as an accountant, so you can trust me

There are numerous free packages and several low-cost, one-off payment packages like VT. See my post here or read the whole thread. Only idiots think that, other things being the same, £10 a month is cheaper over several years than buying a one-off package for £100. And you're obviously a smart cookie as you've identified right at the start that a one-off payment is better!

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I don't know anything about accounting software, so I'm looking for recommendations that work on Windows 10. I'll need something that can handle running a small limited company with no employees.

I'd prefer to pay one off but if the only decent options require a monthly payment then I guess I can go with that.

I'd take a look at Accounts Portal, it is pay monthly, £10 plus VAT (cheaper for my clients). It's the system I use myself and have lots of clients, small limited companies with no employees like yourself using it. It works well and clients tell me its nice and easy to use.

Its just been accepted for Making VAT Digital which may not be relevant for you at the moment but worth bearing in mind.

I used to recommend desktop packages such as VT cashbook but with Making Tax Digital you will save time and hassle by using a system now which will deal with the new requirements.

 

[The Byre]

https://www.quickfile.co.uk/

 

[Adam93]

You don’t give us much to go on!

Xero is very user friendly, but slightly more costly than other platforms.

Freeagent is good if you have to deal with CIS. But then again, Xero has improved in this area.

Sage desktop is overpriced and over complicated. The cloud version is okay, but not very user friendly.

Quickbooks is okay, but not as user friendly as Xero.

Accountants make very little from software providers, and you’ll find most accountants pass on any discounts to encourage clients to use software. It makes their life much easier!

If you want to make a one off payment, you’ll be looking at a desktop version, rather than cloud. I would go for a cloud version if I were you.

 

[GLAbusiness]

I have a Ltd with 2 directors/employees. I use FreeAgent - which I find to be excellent. The main advantage of a cloud based system, for me, is that I get software updates automatically (think Making Tax Digital etc.). I do not have to download and apply updates to any desktop software.

I would also recommend FreeAgent support. Whenever I have had an issue or needed to ask a question I get excellent and timely responses.

 

[pentel]

I am with Clinton on this. You will need to keep your records for at least 6 years. So £10 a month is really a minimum of £720.

We use anagram systems, great software and great support. Whoever picks up the phone knows the system inside out and also understands accounting. No script readers at anagram.

 

[Alan]

I am with Clinton on this. You will need to keep your records for at least 6 years. So £10 a month is really a minimum of £720.

Wow - that is less than a days earnings for even a smaller viable UK business. There are more important things to sweat about.

 

[Kerwin]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I'm looking for an accountant at the moment, but I'm not sure what I should be asking them. The business is an online auction site like eBay.

 

[pentel]

Wow - that is less than a days earnings for even a smaller viable UK business. There are more important things to sweat about.

So to be a small viable UK business we should be making profits of over £180,000 per year? Big ask when starting out.

Or are you confusing profit with turnover?

May be small money for you but £720 is a lot to most people on this site.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

There is no difference between monthly, yearly or outright buy for accounting packages as every year the HMRC rules change and you need to have the correct uptodate version

There is one requirement in that whatever accountant you use, the data must be able to be used by them in a easy manner or your accountants fee will be more expensive if they have to do additional work

It can be useful to try and project how the company will be in say three years time and buy a package that will grow with the future demands on it be it payroll, pensions, multi-currency, vat, e-commerce and interfacing with till systems etc. cheap is not always a good long term buy

 

[The Byre]

Wow - that is less than a days earnings for even a smaller viable UK business. There are more important things to sweat about.

That is a very foolish argument! Profits come from costs being lower than revenues. A good business person keeps costs down - ALL costs!

Yesterday was a good day and I earned a good amount of money for my business, enough to buy dozens of Xero packages for ten years - but try getting money out of me for some cloud SW - it can't be done!

I got to where I am by being CAREFUL with money! When you are running a business, everybody and their stinking mothers-in-law tries to climb into your pockets and help themselves. It's my job to flush them out!

 

[LiveNetworks Ltd]

Wave Apps is a decent free package, but if you're working with an online site, what you really need to consider is a package that will take data from your paypal account, bank account, auction site automatically to reduce the amount of work you need to do.

 

[Colin_W]

+1 for Quickfile.

 

[paulears]

I have used a buy now and forget package for over ten years. Now they promise they will be digitally compliant, but I doubt not somehow as they haven't got an updated version, so I guess subscription is the sensible solution when you simply might not get on with it. What I do know as a user is that swapping is a right royal pain in the rear!

 

[Clinton]

What I do know as a user is that swapping is a right royal pain in the rear!

And the subscription services know it! That's why they offer all kinds of deals and special offers to get you in. Then, once you're hooked, they can screw you for whatever they want knowing that you won't leave.

Many of the recurring revenue giants actually calculate pain thresholds! They know how far they can push subscribers before those subscribers will bite the bullet and make a move. And they will push them to the limit.

 

[AlanJ1]

I am with Clinton on this. You will need to keep your records for at least 6 years. So £10 a month is really a minimum of £720.

We use anagram systems, great software and great support. Whoever picks up the phone knows the system inside out and also understands accounting. No script readers at anagram.

Not entirely true, you can download all records on nearly every cloud subscription I have worked with so you could stop at any time and move onto something.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I'm looking for an accountant at the moment, but I'm not sure what I should be asking them. The business is an online auction site like eBay.

Some of the things I'd ask (in no particular order) include -

- If they are qualified accountants, and if so what bodies are they qualified with
- if they have experience of dealing with other EBay sellers (not all accountants are)
- how long they take to prepare accounts and tax returns
- how they will communicate with you
- how they work and who you will be dealing with
- how much they charge
- what support you will receive
- what software and accounting packages they work with and are familiar with

(by the way as an accountant I am very rarely asked any of the above)

You need to be happy that you can work with the accountant you choose - you've got lots of choice.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Trouble is that after reading lots of posts on this forum, new start-ups or self employed have different ideas of what their accountant is there for. The accountants for many seems to be the person who does everything by yesterday and tells them every few days how to run their company after being given each week a number of invoiced and a copy of the bank statement and naturally expect this to be done at virtually no cost, whilst they sell their own services out at £300 per day

It's hard to tell them they really need to run the accounts themselves, as well as payroll, google questions as a first call and then get reasonable answers to there questions, low accounting costs come from where the accountant is only questioned maybe a few times a year and charges £1000 or under for year end

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

A good accountant is well worth their weight in gold, as we have seen even recently on this forum it can be extremely costly for inexperienced people to try and manage the company themselves. Especially when HMRC decide they can retrospectively apply new rules to the last 6 years of trading.
I would recommend that you do look to get an accountant first, and then forget about the software until you're in a position where you need it (for quarterly VAT returns for example), and in the mean time use a spreadsheet, which is free.
You will already be better off than many of your accountant's other clients, who show up once a year with a bin bag full of some receipts.

 

[KAC]

Fortunately, though I studied bean counting I never actually practiced as an accountant, so you can trust me

... but despite your training to count beans, we clearly can't trust you to spell "practised"

 

[Clinton]

I grew up in India (and qualified there). English isn't my first language. Sometimes that shows. My apologies.

 

[Mr D]

... but despite your training to count beans, we clearly can't trust you to spell "practised"

There's people educated in the UK whose only language is English who get some spellings wrong. We can understand what he means well enough.

I've probably spelt it the same way a time or two.

 

[Kerwin]

Some of the things I'd ask (in no particular order) include -

- If they are qualified accountants, and if so what bodies are they qualified with
- if they have experience of dealing with other EBay sellers (not all accountants are)
- how long they take to prepare accounts and tax returns
- how they will communicate with you
- how they work and who you will be dealing with
- how much they charge
- what support you will receive
- what software and accounting packages they work with and are familiar with

(by the way as an accountant I am very rarely asked any of the above)

You need to be happy that you can work with the accountant you choose - you've got lots of choice.

Thank you for the reply.

I've been looking at your website and it looks really good. I'd like to deal with an accountant online only.

The one question I have though is whether I should voluntarily register for VAT. My business will require renting monthly services that charge VAT and then reselling them for a profit with some value add. If I could save 20% on this rental it would make a significant difference to my monthly outgoings.

I've probably misunderstood something about VAT though so I might be completely wrong.

 

[KAC]

I grew up in India (and qualified there). English isn't my first language. Sometimes that shows. My apologies.

No apology necessary. I have OCD about it.

 

[Clinton]

If you have an OCD about spelling I suggest you go read a few more threads, there are plenty of far more serious transgressions for you to worry about and threads for you to take off-topic.

(And, possibly, a few threads where you could make some, er, useful contributions.)

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thank you for the reply.

I've been looking at your website and it looks really good. I'd like to deal with an accountant online only.

The one question I have though is whether I should voluntarily register for VAT. My business will require renting monthly services that charge VAT and then reselling them for a profit with some value add. If I could save 20% on this rental it would make a significant difference to my monthly outgoings.

I've probably misunderstood something about VAT though so I might be completely wrong.

Sorry I've only just seen your post for some reason UKBF posts don't always appear in my emails anymore.

I believe you are the gentleman who I've just emailed back if not please do contact me directly and I'll be happy to help.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

....many of your accountant's other clients, who show up once a year with a bin bag full of some receipts.

I haven't seen one of those for over 10 years, do they really still exist?

By the way spreadsheets for accounting are truly horrible! VT cashbook which is free is at least better than a spreadsheet.

 

[DontAsk]

There is no difference between monthly, yearly or outright buy for accounting packages as every year the HMRC rules change and you need to have the correct uptodate version

Only if you are the accountant. The vast majority of small business owner can make a one off purchase and be good for years.

Another vote for VT+ for such a small business. My accountant also uses it (as well as lots of other packages). The only downside is that the "books" are "frozen" for the period when the accountant has them. You can't merge their changes back into your database. My accountant turns things around quickly enough that this is not a big issue for me.

 

[DontAsk]

The one question I have though is whether I should voluntarily register for VAT. My business will require renting monthly services that charge VAT and then reselling them for a profit with some value add. If I could save 20% on this rental it would make a significant difference to my monthly outgoings.

Turn it around and think about your income. If you build a successful non-VAT registered business and then hit the VAT threshold and have to start charging VAT then one of two things happens
1. You take a hit on your margins
2. You have to increase your prices to maintain margins with possible loss of customers.

Think very carefully about your pricing and where you think the business will be an a year or three.

 

[Kerwin]

Turn it around and think about your income. If you build a successful non-VAT registered business and then hit the VAT threshold and have to start charging VAT then one of two things happens
1. You take a hit on your margins
2. You have to increase your prices to maintain margins with possible loss of customers.

Think very carefully about your pricing and where you think the business will be an a year or three.

Excellent points. Thank you.

I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about this. It is a complex issue. Pricing is kind of up in the air at the moment as I'm still working on things but nothing will be sure until the new year.

 

[makeyourbusinessbetter]

Xero and QuickBooks are popular but if you don't need a cloud-based/monthly subscription package I would look at VT Transaction+ from VT Software before you decide. http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/

It is easy to learn and use which is important if you are new to accounting software. It is also easy to correct any errors that is also useful when learning a new package.

I've used it for years and any clients that have used it have found it easy to learn.

It is available free for 60 days so you can try it out.

 

[Deleted member 315707]

I don't know anything about accounting software, so I'm looking for recommendations that work on Windows 10. I'll need something that can handle running a small limited company with no employees.

I'd prefer to pay one off but if the only decent options require a monthly payment then I guess I can go with that.

If you ask 10 people, you will likely get 10 different answers, some will say Excel is fine, some maybe even advocate the quill but I'd answer with four points:

1. Understand the difference between price and cost. People often don't value their time and whilst paying monthly for an online package obviously costs money, you should get back time to focus on running your business.
2. All of the cloud packages do not tie you in, you pay month to month and at any point you can cancel and download all of your data from supplier and customer lists through to profit and loss or balance sheets.
3. QuickBooks Online and Xero are the cloud market leaders (by number of users) and most accountants/bookkeepers have a preferred choice and get a preferential rate for them, passing on their discounts. If there isn't a preference, question what experience they have using them, how many of their clients use one or the other and see if they are accredited.
4. Tax rules are evolving and whilst you may or may not be a VAT business now, you might be in the future and at that point you will need a piece of software which is "Making Tax Digital" ready. Basically this just means that you can file your "numbers" electronically to the government and the longer term government aim is to get all tax digitised including smaller businesses.

 

[Wogan May]

Just dropping a mention of WaveApps.com - they have a very decent cloud platform with most of the core accounting/invoicing/book-keeping stuff available for free.

 

[DontAsk]

If you ask 10 people, you will likely get 10 different answers, some will say Excel is fine, some maybe even advocate the quill but I'd answer with four points:

1. Understand the difference between price and cost. People often don't value their time and whilst paying monthly for an online package obviously costs money, you should get back time to focus on running your business.

Ask yourself, how does a cloud solution regain time compared to buying the software? You still spend the same time on data entry whether using local software or cloud based

1. All of the cloud packages do not tie you in, you pay month to month and at any point you can cancel and download all of your data from supplier and customer lists through to profit and loss or balance sheets.

Ask yourself can it be downloaded in a format that can be imported to another package. Again this applies to all software, not just cloud based.

1. QuickBooks Online and Xero are the cloud market leaders (by number of users) and most accountants/bookkeepers have a preferred choice and get a preferential rate for them, passing on their discounts. If there isn't a preference, question what experience they have using them, how many of their clients use one or the other and see if they are accredited.

Again, applies to cloud and locally hosted software.

 

[Deleted member 315707]

Ask yourself, how does a cloud solution regain time compared to buying the software? You still spend the same time on data entry whether using local software or cloud based

Not true, there is no perpetually licensed product, but happy to be proven wrong here, which allows you to have a direct bank feeds which download transactions and can magically auto categorise them.

A cloud product, certainly the ones I have mentioned, have open APIs which means you can link up to a myriad of websites, apps and tools to have realtime information. No importing, manipulating CSV files or manually typing, no double data entry.

Multi user, multi device, multi location means users can enter transactions directly from wherever they are. Much easier to snap that coffee receipt on the go with a phone app than lose the receipt..

I could go on but there are many things a cloud accounting package can do which save mountains of time for typical businesses that a typical Sage desktop product cannot, certainly not one for £89 which is my point.

Ask yourself can it be downloaded in a format that can be imported to another package. Again this applies to all software, not just cloud based.

I'm not sure I understand your point here but it sounds like we agree, the issue here was that people don't have access to their data in the cloud, the truth is yes they do, they just download everything they need prior to cancelling their subscription. Most accounting packages allow you to import CSV files or use a service like Move my Books for them to do it for you.

Again, applies to cloud and locally hosted software.

Totally agree. What's your point?

 

[Pish_Pash]

A cloud product, certainly the ones I have mentioned, have open APIs which means you can link up to a myriad of websites, apps and tools to have realtime information. No importing, manipulating CSV files or manually typing, no double data entry.

I use Quickbooks desktop + a one off purchase of Transaction Pro Importer (which cost me about £120) ...it covers all my bases. Subscriptions truly are the spawn of Satan.