Reasonable solution for excessive mobile use?

Graye

Free Member
Jul 27, 2011
35
2
We have five employees and are having problems with one of them who seems unable to keep off his mobile phone. We introduced a box for them all to put their mobiles in during working hours but he was not happy with this, saying we were effectively taking it off him and it wasn't safe. We have now banned them from the workplace but his long periods in the toilet suggests he has it in his pocket and uses it in there. All employees know they can give out the office number for emergencies and likewise use the phone for urgent outgoing calls.
He is still in his probation period so the easiest solution would be to just let him go but we have invested a lot of time in training him so we want to see if we can sort things out.

We are now thinking of a bank of small staff lockers with keys so that they can lock their belongings (and phones) away. If we then said that having a mobile in the workplace during office hours was a disciplinary offence would we be seen as unreasonable? The majority of the job revolves around customer service and order taking (all phone based) so if they are using their own mobiles they are not doing the work I pay them to do.
 
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This question just keeps coming up, but only in the UK. In our German office, nobody would dream of using their mobiles during working hours.

One other thing that you forget is the extent that this pi$$es off the other employees. They may not say anything, but to have a colleague that is obviously swinging the lead is extremely annoying and they will be getting annoyed with you for allowing this to happen.

Just tell him straight to his face and in front of the others that he will not be taken on permanently if he continues to use his mobile during working hours.
 
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Newchodge

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    You are the employer. May I suggest that your first mistake was to back down when he 'wasn't happy with' your proposal. You need to establish what the rules are and insist that all staff keep to them.

    If your rule is that mobile phones may not be used during work time, which is reasonable, then enforce it in whatever way works.
     
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    He is still in his probation period so the easiest solution would be to just let him go but we have invested a lot of time in training him so we want to see if we can sort things out.

    We are now thinking of a bank of small staff lockers with keys so that they can lock their belongings (and phones) away. If we then said that having a mobile in the workplace during office hours was a disciplinary offence would we be seen as unreasonable? The majority of the job revolves around customer service and order taking (all phone based) so if they are using their own mobiles they are not doing the work I pay them to do.
    You've already spent time/money training this employee, and despite their suspected attitude, you then want to spend money more on lockers. Why?

    Just tell him straight to his face and in front of the others that he will not be taken on permanently if he continues to use his mobile during working hours.

    Make it a clear disciplinary offence that using personal mobile phones during working hours will be treated as misconduct - but do it as a general, employment-wide, policy, rather than singling this employee out in front of the other staff.

    We have five employees and are having problems with one of them who seems unable to keep off his mobile phone. We introduced a box for them all to put their mobiles in during working hours but he was not happy with this, saying we were effectively taking it off him and it wasn't safe. We have now banned them from the workplace but his long periods in the toilet suggests he has it in his pocket and uses it in there.
    You're not taking his phone off him, you're preventing him from bringing it into the workplace where it could be used during working times. Why is the box not safe? Is it accessible to anyone?
    Could a manager not simply receive five phones every morning, keeping these under lock & key until the end of the shift?

    If he's taking the piss with his piss breaks, warn him that unless he can explain (with confirmation from a doctor if necessary) why he needs to spend so long in the toilet, coupled with his refusal to hand over his phone upon arrival to work, implies that he is breaking a direct instruction - a case of insubordination - and could face disciplinary action. His options are simple: comply with your instructions; leave his phone safe at home; or get dismissed.

    While you don't want to replace this employee yet, this early attitude could be a portent for what to expect from him in the future, so do make a note in your diary to ensure you have time in the future to dismiss before two years service if necessary.



    Karl Limpert
     
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    Cutler4Life

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    Aug 18, 2013
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    This is one problem we face with our tracking tools. It only tracks the use of employees time and usage on certain devices, not including mobile phones. It is a shame, but by law cannot track information on personal devices. I like the solutions above, and I wish you the best of luck!
     
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    You have introduced the phone policy and everyone else other than him is dealing with it and he is in his probation period and calling the shots? Sometimes writing these things down makes you appreciate the situation more fully and I would, training or not, get a new employee now. You have someone here who will seek to get around the rules by making an issue over what is a small thing and will eat into your time over a bigger thing.

    If you intend to keep him/give him a 2nd chance, extend his probation period, tell him why and ensure he is aware long loo breaks and the phone issue are the cause and see if he complies, if not you have your answer.

    Personally, it sounds like a bad hire to me and someone who is not a good fit ( based on what you say in your post) and if this is the probation period then what will it be like going forward?
     
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    M

    Merchant UK

    I would probably say if the situation gets worst and its affecting performance of the business then i would imagine you will need to dismiss the person involve and do it fairly high profile to act as a deterrent to others.

    This person is taking you for a mug and puts his Mobile Social status before you or his job, Do him a favor and release him to enjoy his mobile phone 24/7, whilst setting an example to the rest of the workforce that your in charge and they will do as you tell them ;)
     
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    Hoppimike

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    Feb 28, 2013
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    It's actually really fascinating to me hearing this from the employer's side, as in the past I have worked on tills and been on my phone too much as well (perhaps I can give some insight from the other side? :) ).

    Ultimately, I think it's tricky. Different types of work of course vary in how constant and engaging they are, but for me behind a till, shifts could be long and it was just something to occupy my mind, but I understand why this isn't really an excuse to a manager who is paying me to work, not to Facebook!!

    To be honest, seeing this from the employer's point of view has helped me (for one) to understand why I shouldn't have done it or at least not to the extent that I did.

    I suppose all you can really do other than taking it off of him completely is to give warning and reinforce the idea the of course he is there to work and paid to work, and not to go on the internet or send texts! It sounds silly to just say it but... hey I mean, employees are coming at this from a completely different angle and it may not be as obvious to him why it's a problem as it is to you. Compromises may also be possible, if he seems capable of SOME degree of self-control...
     
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    M

    Merchant UK

    Failing all that and wanting to stop this mobile business, then you could use one of these mobile Jammers http://www.jammer4uk.com/cell-phone-jammer-j202e-p-12.html

    1.jpg


    Set it on a time switch so it goes off at break times and Lunchtimes, but during work times it stays on, Works upto 40 metres, Clever thing is you don't even need to tell them you have one, just blame Poor Signal;)
     
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    tony84

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    Apr 14, 2008
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    Why is this even up for debate?

    Its not working out, firstly he is questioning your policies, secondly he is (possibly) being deceitful and using his phone in the toilet, thirdly he is just using his phone too much.

    None of that sounds like hes trying to impress his new employer.

    Do you really want this person working for you long term?
    Where will his head be? Wondering whos text/called him or will he be hating his job because he cant sit on his phone?

    I would say cut your losses as hard as it can be and just get rid.
     
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    I am watching a case almost exactly like this right now - except that the person involved is female.

    1. The whole situation has disintegrated into a silly game, with the supervisor laying down new rules that only this one person falls foul of, but then she plays the game and plays with her new toy less, but vanishes to the loo - just like this case!

    2. Every other member of staff is totally pissed off with having to watch her swing the lead and not work. It has BADLY effected moral and the others just hate her.

    3. The supervisor has pity on her and is loath to sack her arse, because she is an idiot and would be up **** creek, sans paddle, if she lost her job.

    4. Just as in this case, the supervisor claims that a great deal of time and money has been invested in training this person.

    5. The supervisor has done nothing to measure performance and therefore does not realise to what extent this offending person is costing the company money.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    May 11, 2006
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    Lockers should work well.

    However, even though you've spent time training this person, it already sounds like they aren't the right candidate for the job. It sounds like they're clearly going behind your back in the toilet and have already caused conflict with you by refusing to let you keep their phone.

    I would personally get rid whilst I have the chance.
     
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    carey023

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    Aug 30, 2013
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    As a young twenty something, I'd like to give another perspective on this issue. To establish my background, I'm a 26yo American woman who earned my masters in Business in London at one of the most prestigious Business Schools in the world. Before I started the position I'm in now (Business Development Manager for a successful technology start up) I temped for many companies in London while looking for a permanent position. One of the biggest differences I experienced between UK and US companies was a desire to cling to hierarchy and "the way things have always been done".

    I'm a very hard worker, but I am a lot more motivated to work in environments where I am treated like an adult and trusted to get my work done without being constantly monitored. My current employer allows me to come in late if I choose to work through lunch instead. If I'm running late in the morning, I'm not questioned. Because my employer trusts me. This makes me happy to come into work each day, rather than dreading being constantly reprimanded. I feel like the skills I have to offer are appreciated.

    I've had employers who lecture me for coming in 5 minutes late, but then think it's perfectly acceptable for an executive to come in whenever he pleases. This instantly makes me feel like I'm not valued and makes me not want to put as much effort in. (This of course doesn't apply to shift roles or meetings, when punctuality is important). In other positions I often thought "Well I don't smoke, I don't take tea breaks, I don't chat, why shouldn't I be allowed to come in 10 minutes late when other employees spend much more time throughout the day taking 'acceptable' breaks". To address the posts above, I would be horrified if an employer was monitoring my bathroom time. Why would I go the extra mile for an employer that treats me like a child? They're obviously not going to give me more responsibility even if I do perform well. In one instance, I started at a company where the MD was not very technologically savvy. I had not been assigned a computer yet so was unable to do any work. Rather than waiting for a computer to be free, I decided to be proactive and use my mobile phone to research the necessary information. However, I was still reprimanded by the MD who did not believe I could possibly be using my phone for work purposes.

    We now have technology that allows us to do so much more work than we were able to do 10 years ago, yet we still work the same amount of hours. Sometimes, work isn't stimulating every minute of the day. And like it or not, work/life balance is a huge factor in accepting a specific position. Majority of workplaces do not mind if employees use their mobile throughout the day (ie high paying positions in consulting, investment banking, etc) I've had roles where I've missed out on a lot of outside work activities because I was not allowed access to mobiles/email during the day while the rest of my peers were. This is bound to bring down employee morale. Perhaps this employee is spending so long in the bathroom because he knows it is the only chance he will have to look at his phone for several hours so he needs to stretch it out as long as he can? Whereas if he was allowed to access his phone whenever he had a free moment he would probably be much more efficient and wouldn't need to take extra long bathroom breaks. Stricter rules are not always the best solution. There will always be employees who are lazy. But I know I, and many of my peers, are much more motivated to work when we're in an environment where we're trusted, valued, and offered flexibility rather than just following arbitrary rules for the sake of it.

    There's a really interesting article in Forbes entitled "The Three Paradoxes of Generation Y" by Lynda Gratton. It offers some more perspective on changing work place norms as Gen Y enters the work force. The focus is on how UK employers mistakenly view Gen Y as unwilling to fall into line with the "the way things are done around here".
     
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    MitchStringer

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    Oct 26, 2012
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    I was going post something almost identical to carey023.

    Although I don't think i could have put it better myself.

    I thought to myself many times about challenging my old employers on certain rules, but i knew ultimately that asking the question "why can't we do XY and Z" would lead to the answer "Because that's rules"

    Before my old employer started down sizing, i loved working there. We had targets, and as long as you hit them they was happy.

    I was often late, (due to buses etc...) however the bosses never minded, as long as I stayed at the end to make the time up.

    We could also play Music and use our phones as much as we wanted as long as targets were hit, and there wasn't a "visit" from our customers/clients that day.

    It wasn't a select few who never "told off" for being late or using there phones. everybody was allowed to do it and it was the norm.

    we did have set break times, but we could take more if we wanted, as long as the work was done.

    I smoked at the time, so knowing i could have a cigg at anytime was a blessing.

    We had 45 minutes for lunch, but if we needed more we just had to ask.

    we was also allowed to stay upto an hour after work if we wanted to, to finish work, or complete a "project" for work, basically we could stay late and use the equipment, if was work related.

    I was REALLY HAPPY working there and always exceeded targets, and maintained a 100% quality recorded.

    They did need to sort out the "hierarchy" as there was not much room for progression, it was "dead mans shoes" situation. But that is unrelated to the work ethic, everybody was HAPPY.

    This along with what carey023 said is what i want the ethos to be in my company when i start taking on more staff.

    Many reports studies have proven that more short breaks or distractions from work, increase productivity.

    Small things like allowing coffee a the desk or listing to music really boost morale. And happy workers are busy workers.

    There was a company about 35 years ago with 2 staff, that had the same ethos, they were called, Apple Computers.
     
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    Vectis

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    Jun 10, 2012
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    As a young twenty something, I'd like to give another perspective on this issue. To establish my background, I'm a 26yo American woman who earned my masters in Business in London at one of the most prestigious Business Schools in the world. Before I started the position I'm in now (Business Development Manager for a successful technology start up) I temped for many companies in London while looking for a permanent position. One of the biggest differences I experienced between UK and US companies was a desire to cling to hierarchy and "the way things have always been done".

    I'm a very hard worker, but I am a lot more motivated to work in environments where I am treated like an adult and trusted to get my work done without being constantly monitored. My current employer allows me to come in late if I choose to work through lunch instead. If I'm running late in the morning, I'm not questioned. Because my employer trusts me. This makes me happy to come into work each day, rather than dreading being constantly reprimanded. I feel like the skills I have to offer are appreciated.

    I've had employers who lecture me for coming in 5 minutes late, but then think it's perfectly acceptable for an executive to come in whenever he pleases. This instantly makes me feel like I'm not valued and makes me not want to put as much effort in. (This of course doesn't apply to shift roles or meetings, when punctuality is important). In other positions I often thought "Well I don't smoke, I don't take tea breaks, I don't chat, why shouldn't I be allowed to come in 10 minutes late when other employees spend much more time throughout the day taking 'acceptable' breaks". To address the posts above, I would be horrified if an employer was monitoring my bathroom time. Why would I go the extra mile for an employer that treats me like a child? They're obviously not going to give me more responsibility even if I do perform well. In one instance, I started at a company where the MD was not very technologically savvy. I had not been assigned a computer yet so was unable to do any work. Rather than waiting for a computer to be free, I decided to be proactive and use my mobile phone to research the necessary information. However, I was still reprimanded by the MD who did not believe I could possibly be using my phone for work purposes.

    We now have technology that allows us to do so much more work than we were able to do 10 years ago, yet we still work the same amount of hours. Sometimes, work isn't stimulating every minute of the day. And like it or not, work/life balance is a huge factor in accepting a specific position. Majority of workplaces do not mind if employees use their mobile throughout the day (ie high paying positions in consulting, investment banking, etc) I've had roles where I've missed out on a lot of outside work activities because I was not allowed access to mobiles/email during the day while the rest of my peers were. This is bound to bring down employee morale. Perhaps this employee is spending so long in the bathroom because he knows it is the only chance he will have to look at his phone for several hours so he needs to stretch it out as long as he can? Whereas if he was allowed to access his phone whenever he had a free moment he would probably be much more efficient and wouldn't need to take extra long bathroom breaks. Stricter rules are not always the best solution. There will always be employees who are lazy. But I know I, and many of my peers, are much more motivated to work when we're in an environment where we're trusted, valued, and offered flexibility rather than just following arbitrary rules for the sake of it.

    There's a really interesting article in Forbes entitled "The Three Paradoxes of Generation Y" by Lynda Gratton. It offers some more perspective on changing work place norms as Gen Y enters the work force. The focus is on how UK employers mistakenly view Gen Y as unwilling to fall into line with the "the way things are done around here".



    So, your boss allows you to come in late but work through your lunch to make up the time? That's possibly fine in your particular role but not much use if your job is, for instance, customer services and you have customers waiting when you're not there because you have decided not to come in till later.

    How far would you push coming in late? 10 o'clock? 11 o'clock? Midday? Would you consider not turning up until the afternoon because you think you could make up the time by working into the night?

    Maybe some jobs can work like that but the majority can't and there have to be boundaries as to what's acceptable and reasonable - no matter how good a worker you think you are!!
     
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    Eina26

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    Jul 17, 2013
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    It's perfectly understandable for employers to do this. And as an employee, we should follow the rules our companies make. Especially if there's a perfectly good explanation for this. It is a waste to let him go but if we think about this long term, it's much better to fire him now than waste more time and more money letting him work on your company.
     
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    Eina26

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    Jul 17, 2013
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    It's perfectly understandable for employers to do this. And as an employee, we should follow the rules our companies make. Especially if there's a perfectly good explanation for this. It is a waste to let him go but if we think about this long term, it's much better to fire him now than waste more time and more money letting him work on your company.
     
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    eldirect

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    Jun 19, 2013
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    That all sounds great, but you are relying on people doing the 'making time up' bit. Most don't. Its all take take take from a proportion of employees, basically they take a mile then you have to be a bit harsh.

    Depends on the industry though and the pay scale of the workers involved.
     
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    justguy

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    Sep 23, 2009
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    We tried the very flexible and unconcerned approach ; our approach was basically "don't take the p*ss".

    The majority were excellent - only used phones and internet when needed and always ensured they made up hours if they were in late or had to leave early.

    However, over time, the minority did take the p*ss - and this is where the system falls down if there is no comeback for poor behaviour. It is not possible to have words with one group of people when there is only peer pressure or "act sensibly" rules in place. If there is no downside for bad behaviour, it can be hard to prevent.

    If an office is staffed by highly motivated and self-starting people, often smaller offices, then you can be far less formal. When you have to deliver a service to customers at defined hours and to certain standards, you do need to be able to censure people and ensure an office runs without tension.

    A very hard line to walk - especially when you really value people being able to be adults and act accordingly.

    Sorry carey023, I would love to enact your vision but come back to me in 20 years when you have run a company and dealt with the issues "regular" business face. A start-up is miles apart from most SMBs - a good MBA is a starting point for learning business and not the end-point.
     
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    Displaycentreuk

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    May 31, 2008
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    A degree of flexibility can work really well for both employer and employee. But it depends upon both parties being ready, willing and able to respect the interests of the other. Unfortunately, in my experience, the small minority who are only interested in taking, spoil it for the majority who know they need to give as much as they take.

    In a small business, it is easy to be flexible with good employees and more pedantic with the more difficult characters. In a larger business this is simply not possible and everyone ends-up being covered by the same rule book. For instance, when you get a Trade Union demanding that 'management' define the length of time that is considered reasonable for an individual to spend in the toilet/day then discussions on flexibility are on another planet!

    Chris
     
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    10032012

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    Mar 10, 2012
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    This goes to very much the barebones of being human, how people develop relationships with one another and how we apply confidence and assertiveness etc in situations.

    One of the mistakes I made was being the "nice boss" with the attitude of some flexibility if work can be done on time and to a good standard. Non customer facing position... if you came an hour late because of public transport problems then make it up at the end of the day.

    You need to balance between treating your staff like adults and being an over-controlling "parent"... You need to stick the ground rules from day one... otherwise you will get walked over. The attitude of a staff member is more important than their skills as the latter can be taught, the former cannot be.

    People will naturally find a compromise, it wont either be hating or loving the boss/company; everyone gets the start off nasty thing and earn respect etc.

    The OP is too considerate. The problem is now this staff member knows he can assert his authority more than the people who pay his wages. Its not about mobile phones... all new implemented rules will be avoided at all costs. But the other staff are happy to work and follow the rules... your workplace doesn't have discipline, and your other staff might start taking a leaf out of his book if the OP allows him to get away with rule breaking.

    The good thing is even if you do sack him he might come begging back for his job then will follow the rules; but until that point nothing will ever change. At the moment in 6 months time all the staff will be on their mobiles.
     
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