rankingsolutions.com
- Thread starter Escape Vapourettes
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ForumJunkie
Any "SEO" or "Digital Marketing" firm / company / business / freelancer offering "SEO Packages" should be avoided. You can't offer SEO on a package basis at least not in 2014 anyway! Since 2010 if an SEO company is offering packages you're already going down the wrong route.
You need to really buy their time which is from around £60 - £80 per hour. Spending anything below £800 - £1000 is just a waste of time in my opinion. As an SEO and someone that outsources some of my SEO work I'm dealing with clients in that are spending in excess of £5,000 per month on SEO and they're seeing results but the clients that ring me up with a budget with anything less than £3,000 - £4,000 I politely tell them that I haven't the time but anyone ringing up with less than £1000 I just laugh and tell them to go to People Per Hour which I suggest you do. There are always freelancers skint and poor enough to do hundreds of hours of work and bend over backwards for a few quid.
You need to really buy their time which is from around £60 - £80 per hour. Spending anything below £800 - £1000 is just a waste of time in my opinion. As an SEO and someone that outsources some of my SEO work I'm dealing with clients in that are spending in excess of £5,000 per month on SEO and they're seeing results but the clients that ring me up with a budget with anything less than £3,000 - £4,000 I politely tell them that I haven't the time but anyone ringing up with less than £1000 I just laugh and tell them to go to People Per Hour which I suggest you do. There are always freelancers skint and poor enough to do hundreds of hours of work and bend over backwards for a few quid.
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- Original Poster
- #3
Thanks for your helpful replies. So where does a small business with a £1000-£1500 pm budget go? Ok people per hour, but we are looking to build a trusted ongoing relationship with an SEO company/person. And that's the problem, who can you trust, every SEO you speak to tells you something different? I know that its a difficult ever changing process, but I have had my fingers burnt twice in the recent past.
I guess that most people would search Google, as I have for SEO, SEO UK, SEO company etc, and expect that those at the top would know what they are doing and could be trusted to an extent. But no, because they all offer packages?
Any help or suggestions welcome, thanks.
I guess that most people would search Google, as I have for SEO, SEO UK, SEO company etc, and expect that those at the top would know what they are doing and could be trusted to an extent. But no, because they all offer packages?
Any help or suggestions welcome, thanks.
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Rubbish. Packages are often offered because people like packages. What's important is what happens when you contact the SEO...
I would always go with personal recommendations from people you know... Don't know anyone? Well time to get out in the real world and make some friends
A real SEO shouldn't talk about keywords/links/etc at first meeting. I would expect them to talk about your business, who your customers are and what their problems are. If you don't have a clear idea on this, then they should guide you. Then they would go away, do some research and come back with some proposals... proposals which should include some means of measuring your ROI...
If they talk in terms of x directory entries, y links, z articles, then run a mile...
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Most do i did and got a penalty for my efforts.... and this is where Google is wrong to throw penalty's as they do.
2009 I started the business found the most prominent SEO company spoke with them, they could have told me anything as i did not have a clue what was involved , but to me it did not matter they were number 1 not just number one they came up on pretty much every search term and was no where near the cheapest provider..
Anyhow the rest is history and so was my business nearly.
I would pay for a full subscription here and then post your site into private section and let people make an public observation, as like me you could end up with a mad SEO on a mission and kill you before you start
Just look at this thread for instance there is some decent advice, but also some real shocking advice you don't need to pay £80 per hour or (£800 per day) I am not saying you wont spend £800 per day you just need to be aware of what is working and spend you money accordingly,
If the website in your signature is the site for promotion then its competitive but any budget can make a dent if planned well, you just need to make the right choice cheap dont always mean bad, but more often than not they go hand in hand so be careful
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My recommendation would be, pay money only for guaranteed results, that is if your keywords, are not in top 3 spots of the first page in x amount of time (x -depends on industry and competition, usually no more than 2-3 months), and if they don't deliver take your many back, so basically pay only for money-back guarantee. Believe me when i say that those days any guy and his dog are doing 'seo' but usually they do more harm than good, i saw a lot of people who don't know what they are doing destroying their clients websites. Lot of 'sham' going on in seo industry, so look for guarantees .
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Your budget is larger than mine and I use someone who is a forum member but tends not to jump on threads like these decrying everyone else so likelihood is you may not have come across him but I followed his posts on here for a few years before deciding that he was the person that I wished to work with.
He doesn't promise the earth but will be realistic in what he offers and even told me that I had very little chance of getting back onto page 1 of Google with my chosen keyword as the competition was fierce with huge public company marketing budgets so we concentrate on long tail keywords.
I'll PM you his details and he comes with a hearty recommendation from me
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Anyone who buys into a service guaranteeing something they have no control over is throwing good money away. The 'guarantees' and 'promised positions' brigade are the first to be avoided.
The 'We will do our best, oh and here are our success stories' brigade are the worthy contenders.
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In the 8 years I've been a member of the forum the SEO promise has come up again and again. And every single proponent of the 'money back' system has come and gone and not one has ever provided any evidence that 1. they can actually do the job and 2. has ever given anyone their money back.
Don't trust anyone who promise and sort of ranking even with a money back promise.
Don't trust anyone who promise and sort of ranking even with a money back promise.
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I don't know about others, but it's not that hard to determine if it's possible to reach top 3 for certain keywords. What's the point paying for a service, that someone 'promises' them to deliver. Are you saying it's like throwing bunch of things at wall and just watching and hoping that something will 'stick' ? Those who 'stick' will be long term clients, and those who don't - well let's just ride with it and when they finally realize that they are wasting their money for not being in the top 3 they will cancel the service (after good amount of money wasted) ?
By the way, if people are buying seo services from fiverr or second hand packages or similar then no wonder they lose and not get their money back.
When you enter a contract, it's legally marked that if you don't deliver top 3, you will return the money, or else you will be sued, so tell me how can someone not give their money back if everything is official ?
By the way, if people are buying seo services from fiverr or second hand packages or similar then no wonder they lose and not get their money back.
When you enter a contract, it's legally marked that if you don't deliver top 3, you will return the money, or else you will be sued, so tell me how can someone not give their money back if everything is official ?
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The interesting thing with SEO is you have to consider your on-page and off-page SEO efforts. Now I'm not an SEO "expert" - but, I am an SEO Copywriter. Let me explain...
Your on-page efforts are what would interest me. So, I would ask you for your keywords for each page I am writing your SEO-friendly copy for. As @Ianj said, long-tail keywords help you rank better as they are less competitive and more likely to hit the buyers.
So you need to see SEO as a two-tier strategy. Get your on-page SEO up to scratch, then worry about off-page with links from customers, social media shares, business directory listings (Yell?), etc.,. So your content is important too.
On my site, a work in progress, I am ranking for over 60 keywords and the site isn't finished yet with only a tiny few inbound and outbound links - pages 2/3 for some, page 14, 20, 30 for highly competitive keywords, etc., etc., - just with on-page content, meta titles and descriptions.
So what I am saying is look at ways not to get to #1, but to improve from where you are now. Keep improving in steps and you'll get there. Use Google Webmaster Tools, Analytics, and Adwords.
I have three Ads running, which I set up recently, that average positions 1.7, 2.3, and 4. As you learn more and get more data, you can improve things and see improving results with this method -
Small improvements over time rather than giant leaps
You'll get there...Oh, and I can recommend @Tin as well
Your on-page efforts are what would interest me. So, I would ask you for your keywords for each page I am writing your SEO-friendly copy for. As @Ianj said, long-tail keywords help you rank better as they are less competitive and more likely to hit the buyers.
So you need to see SEO as a two-tier strategy. Get your on-page SEO up to scratch, then worry about off-page with links from customers, social media shares, business directory listings (Yell?), etc.,. So your content is important too.
On my site, a work in progress, I am ranking for over 60 keywords and the site isn't finished yet with only a tiny few inbound and outbound links - pages 2/3 for some, page 14, 20, 30 for highly competitive keywords, etc., etc., - just with on-page content, meta titles and descriptions.
So what I am saying is look at ways not to get to #1, but to improve from where you are now. Keep improving in steps and you'll get there. Use Google Webmaster Tools, Analytics, and Adwords.
I have three Ads running, which I set up recently, that average positions 1.7, 2.3, and 4. As you learn more and get more data, you can improve things and see improving results with this method -
Small improvements over time rather than giant leaps
You'll get there...Oh, and I can recommend @Tin as well
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Because that sort of contact isn't worth the paper it's been written on. Suing someone over failure to deliver somerthing as nebulous as top 3 ranking isn't sensible or practical. There are lots of SEO companies making this promise but reading the small print shows so many loopholes that the chances of getting any money back are virtually zero.
Any SEO worth their salt won't be focusing on ranking, they will be making sure the site is optimised to take advantage of the many different way to attract visitors via searches. You can make more money from 1000 long tail searchyes than you can from focussing on a single keyword.
Any SEO worth their salt won't be focusing on ranking, they will be making sure the site is optimised to take advantage of the many different way to attract visitors via searches. You can make more money from 1000 long tail searchyes than you can from focussing on a single keyword.
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"Any SEO worth their salt won't be focusing on ranking" - guys who are ranking for hardest money terms like insurance, payday loans, online casino would think otherwise.
1000, really ?.. How's that going for you ? To rank for at least 100 long tails for the same page, your site needs to be an authority site, to achieve that for business without a team of people working on sites content and every of those 100's pages optimization it would impossible.
>>> Eliot
I agree, on page copywriting matters a lot, as i said about it in a different thread, sites copywriting can decide between failure and success in ppc and in seo.
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There are so many agencies that will bite your hand off, tie you into contracts and then do very little. Agencies that basically play upon your lack of knowledge or time. Choosing the best ranking SEO companies doesn't work (I've been there!), because if they have too many clients, you're just one of many and you'll get your 2 posts a month or 5 links a day but without any passion behind it.
You need someone who will share your passion for the business and delight in seeing the SEO improve. The best person in this is you - but of course you can't do everything and be everywhere. Second best option is to use someone who will happily explain things as they go along so you can choose what your team can do in house (there's a lot you can do yourself), what you can sub contract out (like content writing) or, if you choose for them to do it all, at least understand what they're doing and why.
No one can guarantee results, but this doesn't mean they can't give your website and online presence the best foundation needed.
I steer well clear on big agencies now - caveat emptor - unless you've a phenomenal budget. In fact even then I'd rather stick hot pins in my eyes. (Bitter, moi?)
I'm happy to recommend someone - if you want details message me - but otherwise I'd definitely look at being a big fish in a small pond on this front, with someone who will give you a personal service rather than simply take your money and field the project out to Bangalore.
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You have to look from a seo agency perspective too, if they work on your site to get it ranked, invest time and money in it and then after 1 month, because of some reason unrelated to their performance you decide to stop using their service.
About doing seo yourself - it's good to know how it works to not get ripped by someone who are going to do it, but knowing how to do it, is a different story, it would take months to learn the ropes, i can tell you that.
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I seem to do OK. It's dead easy to rank for hundreds of things without putting much effort in.
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Simple. If your site is deindexed or penalised, getting your money back doesn't put you back to your original position. A better guarantee would put you back to your original position, perhaps by fixing the penalty or by creating a new site. But then, if someone got you in this position in the first place, would you trust them to fix it?
Rubbish. I could guarantee ranking for maybe 80% or even 90% of punters. It's not rocket science and anyone who claims that their SEO efforts are subject to G algo changes is not doing a proper job. G is looking for good sites with good links, so give them that and the chances are very high that you'll get the ranking.It is not possible to guarantee a SERPS ranking, one of the few facts in SEO discussions.
Therefore those that do are misleading their punters, simples
Of course G is not perfect, and occasionally a good site might be hit. In which case the SEO honours the guarantee and fixes it.
I don't offer a ranking guarantee mostly because I don't have to. I have offered written guarantees that address specific objections in order to reassure the client. I've never been asked to offer a guarantee of a ranking.
And you find many people on forums, such as this, spreading myths such as "It is not possible to guarantee a SERPS ranking, one of the few facts in SEO discussions." so it's perhaps better not to offer such a guarantee. But really, why is someone taking your money if they cannot do the job and won't stand by their work...?
How many cars would Ford sell if they said "Here's your car. We've tried to make it reliable enough to get you from A to B, but we won't guarantee that it will..." Guess what, sometimes a Ford breaks down, and Ford guarantees to fix it. They don't guarantee that the car will never break down...
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A pay-per-service approach is far easier for all to understand. Yes it takes time to optimise the site, but be transparent about what's being done and why and charge accordingly. The same with additional content or links - as a client I would much rather understand what I'm paying for and why, and pay for the service received rather than a set amount based on a promise of rankings (which can't be guaranteed)
Not necessarily.
After being ripped off by a couple of agencies, I decided to 'learn the ropes' myself. Yes, there's still an awful lot to learn but we've now better rankings than we've ever had on Google (66 terms in the top 3, 97 on page 1). In essence we were already heading in the right direction by building a comprehensive site for our customers, focusing on good content and building backlinks to bring in relevant traffic. All things that came as matter-of-course when building the business and site - learning how to do this in an SEO-friendly way is something I'd recommend to any site owner or their marketing team.
Of coures not everyone has the time to do it themselves but if your ranking is critical for your business, you can save yourself significant cash by at least having a sound understanding of how SEO works - otherwise there's a long list of agencies willing to blind the client with science, make false promises and grab every last penny they can with very little movement.
We now have a couple of good copywriters we use when needed, plus someone who we can trust to link build to good authority links. We've more control and we've strong ongoing relationships, and it's significantly cheaper and better value than lining an agency's pocket. I think this takes us back to what the original poster was looking for, albeit possibly in a different guise?
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P.S. For the OP I would suggest if you are considering any particular agency, look at their own website in SEMRush.com. It's amazing how many have taken a dive when Google issued new algorithms, taking along a number of their customers too. We used at one stage an agency called SeoNext but stopped after realising their links (often Chinese and totally irrelevent) were more likely to harm than help us - looking at their data we got out at the right time...
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>>> "Simple. If your site is deindexed or penalised, getting your money back doesn't put you back to your original position. A better guarantee would put you back to your original position, perhaps by fixing the penalty or by creating a new site. But then, if someone got you in this position in the first place, would you trust them to fix it?"
Are we on the same page in this discussion ? This seems a bit out of topic. I don't get, why a client's site would be deindexed or penalised ? I'm talking about 'fail to deliver top 3' money back guarantee.
>>Silky
Seo services are tricky, because if you don't know how something works, you can't separate 'good' from 'bad' , can't evaluate it and make judgment.
Are we on the same page in this discussion ? This seems a bit out of topic. I don't get, why a client's site would be deindexed or penalised ? I'm talking about 'fail to deliver top 3' money back guarantee.
>>Silky
Seo services are tricky, because if you don't know how something works, you can't separate 'good' from 'bad' , can't evaluate it and make judgment.
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Edgar has a point. For someone burned twice a contract for a refund in case of not delivering or penalty should be done. Filtering the right SEO can be hard but despite that you can get actually a really good business partner and friend at the same time. Not everybody goes the other way once you paid. Not everybody will penalize the site, use packages and black tricks.
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What about the scenario where Edgar's competitors hire an SEO with a larger budget... This is beyond the SEO's control...
And how do you measure ranking when it can vary by searcher. And for how long? a week, a month, a year, forever? Wonder how much Edgar guarantees his products/services...
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Besides the fact that when anyone sees "we guarantee" should run and forget the name of that SEO, virtual world is similar and acts like real life. We have to act with ethics, education, morality in this circumstances.
Each provider should be responsible about the work he does no matter what and this way all the work will be more accurate more transparent. All those who take the money and turn back with spam work I guess they should be added in a data base or something and clients could easily see. Things can be filtered easy if we want!
Each provider should be responsible about the work he does no matter what and this way all the work will be more accurate more transparent. All those who take the money and turn back with spam work I guess they should be added in a data base or something and clients could easily see. Things can be filtered easy if we want!
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Hmm, not sure on this one. Google changes have penalised SEO and favoured good site building for customers.
-->Buying links or building irrelevant links? Slap.
Building links where your customers will find you, on good authority relevant sites - well done.
-->Going mad out with cheap, badly written articles or guest blogs in irrelevant sites? Slap.
Writing good posts for relevant blogs, and spending time making sure your site is well written and comprehensive - well done.
A lot of this is common sense for the site owner and indeed anyone tackling it from a marketing rather than SEO perspective, the danger comes when the site owner is tempted by agencies offering to 'build thousands of links to their own network of sites' or promise the holy grail based on an expensive contract and articles written in Bangalore. If there's no or little budget, it's far better to concentrate on learning about keywords and good content rather than risk someone blowing your budget building irrelevant links for you. If there is a budget, there may even be an argument for using this for PR instead of SEO - a couple of links on high authority news sites can be worth a hell of a lot more than links built on weak domains.
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Going back to the original question, I know nothing about rankingsolutions.com but check them out on SEMRush.com and that pretty much paints a sad picture - traffic of 7k per month took a huge dive in January 2012 and is now showing as 0. Their own site also misses some very basic SEO tenets.
#justsaying.....
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I wouldn't bother as the OP seems to have given up acknowledging responses some while ago and appears to have lost interest
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