public liability insurance

[BeaterButcherB]

A while ago I was told it was about 30 quid a year. But now the internet search is quoting over1 00 quid!

How much are you paying?

PS this is for a small market stall at camp sites

thanks

 

[fisicx]

£100 isn’t a lot. It’s also tax deductible

A decent weekend will easily cover the cost. As you are doing multiple shows you won’t even notice the cost at your year end accounts.

 

[BeaterButcherB]

£100 isn’t a lot. It’s also tax deductible

A decent weekend will easily cover the cost. As you are doing multiple shows you won’t even notice the cost at your year end accounts.

well it seam a lot to me for what you get, but ant insurance companies robbing the people blind as in day light robbery!

Tax deductible or not; its not the point!

 

[fisicx]

Consider all the products you plan to sell to a group of people who may have been drinking or using substances. The chances of them injuring themselves or someone else is high. Which is why your premiums are high. It could be a lot higher.

If you were selling handkerchiefs to the WI you could probably get it cheaper.

@Frank the Insurance guy may be able to explain in more detail.

 

[BeaterButcherB]

Consider all the products you plan to sell to a group of people who may have been drinking or using substances. The chances of them injuring themselves or someone else is high. Which is why your premiums are high. It could be a lot higher.

I can assure you that these people are not like that I mean they dont get smashed out of there faces like some of the other music festivals mentioned hear before

If you were selling handkerchiefs to the WI you could probably get it cheaper.

Makes no odds! these kind of questions where not asked on the form; it was just "market trader".

Do these mega corps care about the fina detail of the opperation, no coz its no a cut throat job, as the profit margin in this must be so high that one in a million make a claim

@Frank the Insurance guy may be able to explain in more detail.

Who; is he an under writer by any chance?

 

[WaveJumper]

Look up the Market Traders Association and see what they have to offer

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

@BeaterButcherB

I understand from £30 to £100 is over a threefold increase. However, this is as much about costs and less about insurance risk. Insurers have to pay salaries, IT systems, documents etc etc which all costs money - these need to be covered before any cost in relation to risk is factored in.

Have you tried: https://www.events-insurance.co.uk/event-insurance-policies/stallholders-insurance/buy-quote - they say their stallholder quotes start from £32?

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

I can assure you that these people are not like that I mean they dont get smashed out of there faces like some of the other music festivals mentioned hear before

If you're so sure of it, don't get insurance. Clearly you don't need it if you're confident that none of them will get smashed out of their faces or do anything wrong. If they do you could cover any legal costs yourself - but if you're so sure they won't, there won't be a problem, right?

 

[AlanJ1]

If a £30 > £100 increase in insurance is an issue for you for a year (£6 a month increase), maybe you need to reconsider this business.

 

[IanSuth]

We just paid our insurance for the bike rally this year (we had a committee meeting last night), £141

To give you an idea of damage issues I have seen at events over the years so you know what the insurance may have to shell out.

Wind suddenly getting up and taking hold of a stall which flew other others and landed on some visitors cars & bikes smashing a windscreen and damaging paintwork plus ripping a bike seat.

Fold up table collapsing and spilling burning wax (from a large lit citronella candle) onto a punter (luckily the were wearing jeans and it was just a bit red on their leg but a bare leg or worse a flammable bit of clothing could have ended differently.

 

[japancool]

Why are you even bothering with legal niceties? You were happily telling us at the start that this was an illegal event, and that didn't bother you, so why is having public liability insurance important?

 

[WaveJumper]

And a £100 will seem like a drop in the ocean when someone decides you are responsible for them having an accident

 

[IanSuth]

And a £100 will seem like a drop in the ocean when someone decides you are responsible for them having an accident

Or even your stall blowing away, landing on their car smashing windscreen and damaging the bonnet

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

but now the internet search is quoting over1 00 quid

Try not using the internet.

As mentioned, joining the NMTF will also give you access to great value insurance,

 

[BeaterButcherB]

@BeaterButcherB

I understand from £30 to £100 is over a threefold increase. However, this is as much about costs and less about insurance risk. Insurers have to pay salaries, IT systems, documents etc etc which all costs money - these need to be covered before any cost in relation to risk is factored in.

Have you tried: https://www.events-insurance.co.uk/event-insurance-policies/stallholders-insurance/buy-quote - they say their stallholder quotes start from £32?

you mean things like 50K+ company cars, lunch expenses in restaurants and stuff

no not tried the link; but will have a look when i get back in later, and will go though all the post when i have more time as well
Thanks

 

[BeaterButcherB]

If you're so sure of it, don't get insurance. Clearly you don't need it if you're confident that none of them will get smashed out of their faces or do anything wrong. If they do you could cover any legal costs yourself - but if you're so sure they won't, there won't be a problem, right?

i am sure that they wont; but one venue is now insisting on it

 

[fisicx]

you mean things like 50K+ company cars, lunch expenses in restaurants and stuff

I think your thoughts on how insurance works is a little misguided. It’s not like this at all.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

All of my venues insist on it - £2-5m Public, but one wanted £20m!

 

[BeaterButcherB]

We just paid our insurance for the bike rally this year (we had a committee meeting last night), £141

To give you an idea of damage issues I have seen at events over the years so you know what the insurance may have to shell out.

Wind suddenly getting up and taking hold of a stall which flew other others and landed on some visitors cars & bikes smashing a windscreen and damaging paintwork plus ripping a bike seat.

Fold up table collapsing and spilling burning wax (from a large lit citronella candle) onto a punter (luckily the were wearing jeans and it was just a bit red on their leg but a bare leg or worse a flammable bit of clothing could have ended differently.

So you are being charged a little more then me and you have an entire festival cover and i have only one stall

 

[BeaterButcherB]

Why are you even bothering with legal niceties? You were happily telling us at the start that this was an illegal event, and that didn't bother you, so why is having public liability insurance important?

I got it wrong! the people in the event say oh we are all freedom fighters "resist defy do not comply" with the system. but when it comes down to it they are all BS!

 

[BeaterButcherB]

Try not using the internet.

As mentioned, joining the NMTF will also give you access to great value insurance,

but that all be another cost to bear, i only plan on ding this though summer months

 

[BeaterButcherB]

I think your thoughts on how insurance works is a little misguided. It’s not like this at all.

so tell me then, in my life time when i passed my test in 2000 it was about 300 quid to insure my car.
Now with god knows how many years no claims they all quote 700 quid upwards (and they dont discount anymore then 5years no claims BTW) then i stop driving for 2 years and every insurance company say my now claims no longer count and my insurance quotes are now 1K plus

The people comply to this fraud that is why. So When they started charging for parking permits in London it was 20 quid and the stupid people said oh its only 20 quid thats not much. know how much it is now. 200!

EDIT a few years ago I had an argument with NFU on the phone, about there pricing and they said it is all done by our deep and dark under writers. i asked to be transfered to them and they refused I asked to be transered to there legal team and again they refused! and asked for an address to write to them and they refused

EDIT AGAIN Now the classic car community dont put of with tyranny! my insurance is 80 quid a year. free to tax and MOT exempt. if enough people write to the secretary of state demanding chance then they must comply! as "we are the people we are the power we are the 99%"

 

[BeaterButcherB]

All of my venues insist on it - £2-5m Public, but one wanted £20m!

what kind of venues was it if you dont mine me asking?

 

[IanSuth]

So you are being charged a little more then me and you have an entire festival cover and i have only one stall

No we have just our parts to cover (the bar tent, a membership gazebo, the front gate tent and covering things like if someone fell in an unmarked hole full of water) the stall holders each have their own liability insurance as do the toilets we hire. Equally the sound&lighting co doign the stage have their own and the generator/electrics company cover all electrical risks as that is in their hire contract (that also covers them providing battery maintained emergency exit lighting in the main bar tent as without that our licence is invalid)

PS i insure a 1300cc motorcycle fully comp with class 1 business use for £117 per year, and when i can be bothered to service it and put a single MOT on it I also can drag a currently SORN'd 155mph bike out the garage and that will then be MOT, TAX & ULEZ exempt but if ridden in an unroadworthy state my insurance might still be invalid.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

what kind of venues was it if you dont mine me asking?

Racecourses, market squares and major event venues.

Whilst I am an event organiser, I must also get my stallholders to match the cover (venue requirements).

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

EDIT AGAIN Now the classic car community dont put of with tyranny! my insurance is 80 quid a year. free to tax and MOT exempt. if enough people write to the secretary of state demanding chance then they must comply! as "we are the people we are the power we are the 99%"

You've lost the plot I think.

The cost of classic car motoring is absolutely f*ck all to do with the community 'not putting up with tyranny'. It's linked to the very limited amount of driving those cars do, the generally lower speeds at which they're driven, the manner in which they're driven and the general age of their owners/drivers, ultimately leading to fewer crashes and fewer insurance claims. Ergo, cheaper insurance.

I don't think, to be honest, that this selling at festivals thing is quite for you.

 

[Deaytch]

so tell me then, in my life time when i passed my test in 2000 it was about 300 quid to insure my car.
Now with god knows how many years no claims they all quote 700 quid upwards (and they dont discount anymore then 5years no claims BTW) then i stop driving for 2 years and every insurance company say my now claims no longer count and my insurance quotes are now 1K plus

The people comply to this fraud that is why. So When they started charging for parking permits in London it was 20 quid and the stupid people said oh its only 20 quid thats not much. know how much it is now. 200!

EDIT a few years ago I had an argument with NFU on the phone, about there pricing and they said it is all done by our deep and dark under writers. i asked to be transfered to them and they refused I asked to be transered to there legal team and again they refused! and asked for an address to write to them and they refused

EDIT AGAIN Now the classic car community dont put of with tyranny! my insurance is 80 quid a year. free to tax and MOT exempt. if enough people write to the secretary of state demanding chance then they must comply! as "we are the people we are the power we are the 99%"

An average price for a house in Jan 2000 was around £75k, Jan 2024 onwards over £250k - ergo, things are more expensive and cost more to cover. This includes food, bills, cars, insurance etc.

 

[BeaterButcherB]

No we have just our parts to cover (the bar tent, a membership gazebo, the front gate tent and covering things like if someone fell in an unmarked hole full of water) the stall holders each have their own liability insurance as do the toilets we hire. Equally the sound&lighting co doign the stage have their own and the generator/electrics company cover all electrical risks as that is in their hire contract (that also covers them providing battery maintained emergency exit lighting in the main bar tent as without that our licence is invalid)

So you run a bar at bikers festivals with real ale? What do you do with the left over ale at the end of it? do you have a full time bar/ pub you can sell it at?

I remember a few years ago applying for a TEN on an old resurant that had its premises licence surrendered by one of the last tenants. Fire brigade did not like it as it was set in a basement and only had one exit up the stairs; despite the fact that it had a licence to sell alcohol prior to that for 100 years! So given the fact that the council where hell bent on destroying as many pubs as possible I decided to leave it

and they want you to have proper fire exits on a bloody gazebo!

PS i insure a 1300cc motorcycle fully comp with class 1 business use for £117 per year, and when i can be bothered to service it and put a single MOT on it I also can drag a currently SORN'd 155mph bike out the garage and that will then be MOT, TAX & ULEZ exempt but if ridden in an unroadworthy state my insurance might still be invalid.

How old is the bike?

 

[BeaterButcherB]

Racecourses, market squares and major event venues.

Whilst I am an event organiser, I must also get my stallholders to match the cover (venue requirements).

Are the Racecourses like the Bikers Ian mentioned before; dont spend any money?

is it an open market; spend your money takes your chance with booking a pitch or is it a closed shop?

 

[BeaterButcherB]

I don't think, to be honest, that this selling at festivals thing is quite for you.

Is that coz you dont agree with what I have to say about insurance companies?

 

[BeaterButcherB]

An average price for a house in Jan 2000 was around £75k, Jan 2024 onwards over £250k - ergo, things are more expensive and cost more to cover. This includes food, bills, cars, insurance etc.

One could argue that house pricing dose not match inflation and is more driven by mass immigration

But I am so pleased to see that you two are so satisfied with the value for money you are getting from your insurance companies. All that money that you have spent over the years to what you have claimed must of gone to a good cause of efficient admin fee (no Merc or Michelin star free lunches punted that is!)

 

[IanSuth]

So you run a bar at bikers festivals with real ale? What do you do with the left over ale at the end of it? do you have a full time bar/ pub you can sell it at?

I remember a few years ago applying for a TEN on an old resurant that had its premises licence surrendered by one of the last tenants. Fire brigade did not like it as it was set in a basement and only had one exit up the stairs; despite the fact that it had a licence to sell alcohol prior to that for 100 years! So given the fact that the council where hell bent on destroying as many pubs as possible I decided to leave it

and they want you to have proper fire exits on a bloody gazebo!

How old is the bike?

we order some barrels sedimented which we lay down on the thu to be ready for opening Friday evening, we then get more in bright racked direct from the brewery on Sat when we know weather/punter mood&numbers. We don't open a new barrel after 8pm Sat (we just take that beer off) but rarely over order. Any left over beer is drunk at the marshal's party. We also get some keg beer (becks vier & stowford press) that we can punt out to any non tied pub if there are left overs but we are pretty good at stock mgt. Because we don't need to pay staff we have just done the sums for this year and allowing for 5% wastage selling at £4 we are making 50% profit. We reduce any chance of hands in till by no money going over bar. Beer token sheets worth £10 (6 columns - 1 rows of £1 5 of £20p) are sold in a single secure place then staff wear a sharpie on a string around their neck and cross off tokens as used. All the standard beers are £4 as are the real ciders. The spirits and mixers are less standard pricing but all the prices are printed on laminated illustrated sheets stuck to bar top so punters can just point to what they want when noisy.

This year we have 6 different real ales (one is a real lager), 3 real ciders and a perry plus the keg lager and cider and cans of Guiness for those that want it.

I have seen a small rally refused permission to open until battery maintained illuminated fire exit signs were found and hung in a scout type marquee with no sides on it in a field just off the ridgeway over a mile from the nearest building !!!

Bike i ride cureently is a 99 yreg xjr1300 i also have a gpz900r on SORN, wife has a T509 speed triple, daughter's have a varadero 125 and a suzuki gs125 and there is dead gs500e in the conservatory

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Is that coz you dont agree with what I have to say about insurance companies?

Far from it.

 

[BeaterButcherB]

I have seen a small rally refused permission to open until battery maintained illuminated fire exit signs were found and hung in a scout type marquee with no sides on it in a field just off the ridgeway over a mile from the nearest building !!!

in all the time you have been doing this; do you find it harder these day to get the TEN?

 

[BeaterButcherB]

Racecourses, market squares and major event venues.

Whilst I am an event organiser, I must also get my stallholders to match the cover (venue requirements).

Are the Racecourses like the Bikers Ian mentioned before; dont spend any money?

is it an open market; spend your money takes your chance with booking a pitch or is it a closed shop?

So I take it from your no reply; that its a closed shop!

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Sorry, missed previous post.

Not sure what you mean about open/closed shop.

 

[IanSuth]

in all the time you have been doing this; do you find it harder these day to get the TEN?

I don't do the paperwork.

We used to be a 1500 capacity event we dropped the numbers as it made the paperwork easier and cheaper and we make the same £ due to lower infrastructure costs (toilet hire & emptying is a massive cost and we have some onsite facility which means we don't need to hire in for first 250 and can use mains water for next 250 so cheaper units). We would also need to hire in external medic/first aid support as wouldnt have enough of our own anymore to adequately cover a larger event (we used to get our members trained up to be first aid marshals at local speedway which meant they were qualified to first aid at the event as well, but the speedway shut)

I know on our old site (across the road from the current) under the old regime we had to provide a fire evacuation map printed to a specific scale, as it was a field that meant a 6'x4' map that was mostly blank space.

So all i can say is "having a smaller rally on a TENS is a lot easier than the older larger one on the other licencing scheme" which isnt much help.

The biggest thing is having a track record and the local council enforcement teams having not had issue in other years, their departments are shrinking so they will prioritise work on a risk basis - we are not perceived as a risk due to past actions so get less attention

 

[Deaytch]

One could argue that house pricing dose not match inflation and is more driven by mass immigration

But I am so pleased to see that you two are so satisfied with the value for money you are getting from your insurance companies. All that money that you have spent over the years to what you have claimed must of gone to a good cause of efficient admin fee (no Merc or Michelin star free lunches punted that is!)

You are correct, that hasn't matched inflation but supply/demand.

I am happy paying for the insurance, should anything happen and potentially save me £1,000s instead, sometimes in the £100,000s. These companies still have overheads; just like you.

You have been given some really good advice from other members, so see if you can get a cheaper quote - if not, it's like car insurance, you just have to pick the best one that works for you.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Car insurance? Mine went up by 150% this year and that after shopping around!

 

[Deaytch]

Car insurance? Mine went up by 150% this year and that after shopping around!

My point was more so towards prices increasing even since Jan of this year. So expecting the same insurance price (for whaterver purpose) compared to a couple years ago is a little naive.

Luckily, mine only increased 20% from the initial 40% (ish). So I rang and had a chat, managed to get it lower. But then, I do have most of my insurance under one company so it gives me a little negotiation.