Post your case here

Discussion in 'PAYE letters 2010' started by elainec100[email protected], Nov 2, 2010.

  1. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    I am trying to collate details of tax payers affected by the underpayment letters.

    So if you have received a demand for underpaid tax please post your details here (keeping personal details anon).

    Provide a summary of:

    Amount of tax under paid
    Dates is relates to
    Sources of income e.g. NHS pension, incapacity allowance, several jobs, etc

    If you want our help please contact us:

    Send an email to:


    [email protected]


    Or telephone the help line on 01480 718 418
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #1
  2. AndreaD

    AndreaD UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    2 1
    The case that I have been dealing with is a lady who works for a PCT but does both a day shift and a night shift and has been included on the payroll twice, albeit with the same employee reference number.

    She was never asked to complete a P46 for her 'second job'.

    The PCT has applied her tax code against both salaries and hence she has received two personal allowances. The lady has had both jobs for seven years although HMRC have so far only asked for repayment for 2008/9 and 2009/10.

    This amount totals £2,590 and hence HMRC will want this repaid as a lump sum. This will cause hardship to the lady in question.
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2010 By: AndreaD Member since: Sep 14, 2010
    #2
  3. dp0848

    dp0848 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    2,630 1,018
    Lady in Devon aged 65 living on a modest income has received a demand for £1,650. This figure is the total of demands relating to 08/09 and 09/10. She has a full state pension and a small part time job from which she is being made redundant next week. Repaying the money will cause hardship as her income wihout the part time job will drop below £8k pa.
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2010 By: dp0848 Member since: May 14, 2008
    #3
  4. Clancy

    Clancy UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    2 7
    Received a demand for £1869.00 in total

    2008 - 2009 = £907.20
    2009 - 2010 = £961.80

    What I find strange is that around 10 days prior to receiving the demand I had a £491 tax rebate.:|
     
    Posted: Nov 2, 2010 By: Clancy Member since: Nov 2, 2010
    #4
  5. toniyoung

    toniyoung UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    6 2
    A lady in Bedford on incapacity benefit and receives a reduced wage from her job.
    She has received a demand for underpaid tax of £1812 relating to 2008/9 and 2009/10
    She was on a 647L tax code with her job and the incapacity benefit was being paid with no tax deducted - but she makes the point that she could not actually know this until the year end when she gets a statement from them as during the year the benefit is just paid into her account and no paper work is generated.
    At some point her tax code was changed and her employer amended her tax code to 208L with the difference being allocated to the incapacity benefit. At this point she called them to check if they were using the correct tax code and was told not to worry about it!
    She is not able to pay this sum back - they have suggested in their letter to her that she should pay this back within a year.
    She is worried about them going to back to previous years and also if they are getting it right this year.
     
    Posted: Nov 3, 2010 By: toniyoung Member since: Mar 2, 2010
    #5
  6. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    I had a call on Monday from someone who wants to remain anon.

    Underpaid tax of over £2,000 - relates to NHS Pensions and Incapacity Benefits
    2008 / 2009 and 2009 / 2010

    Again worried there will go back further
     
    Posted: Nov 3, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #6
  7. Julies bookkeeping

    Julies bookkeeping UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    148 23

    This may be the lady that I gave the number of the helpline to yesterday. It certainly sounds like her.

    I process the payroll for her current employer if you need any help.
     
    Posted: Nov 3, 2010 By: Julies bookkeeping Member since: Mar 10, 2008
    #7
  8. Jenni384

    Jenni384 UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    4,845 1,539
    Thanks Julie I'll let David know.
     
    Posted: Nov 3, 2010 By: Jenni384 Member since: Oct 1, 2007
    #8
  9. MyAccountantOnline

    MyAccountantOnline UKBF Legend Full Member

    12,259 2,282
    I've just spoken with a lady who is a midwife for the NHS in the Glasgow area - she's worked for the NHS for over 30 years and has, for many years, been paid overtime which is paid using a different PAYE reference.

    Consequently she has never been subjected to 40% tax on her salary and overtime as she should have been.

    She has just had a tax demand for almost £7,000 for 2008-09 and 2009-10 which HMRC have told her she must pay within 1 month!!

    The lady is understandably disraught and has been in turmoil since receiving the demands.

    She has relied upon her employers and HMRC to get her tax right - she is a midwife and having been with the same employer for 30 years would have had no reason to believe her tax wasnt correct! She certainly had no idea she wasnt being taxed correctly.

    She knows many fellow midwifes will be in the same boat.
     
    Posted: Nov 4, 2010 By: MyAccountantOnline Member since: Sep 24, 2008
    #9
  10. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    This is an an employer error but again HMRC would have known of this. ESC still appplies IMO.

    see my recent post - this applies:

    Exceptional Circumstances
    In exceptional circumstances, arrears notified less than 12 months after the end of the relevant tax year may be considered where both of the following apply:

    • HMRC failed more than once to make proper use of information received about a source of income
    • HMRC allowed tax arrears to build up over two whole tax years
    Anyway they have said that tax payers have 2 years to pay it back (but that's irrelevant because this should be written off).

    THE TAX PAYER CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INABILITY OF HMRC TO DO ITS JOB
     
    Posted: Nov 4, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #10
  11. MyAccountantOnline

    MyAccountantOnline UKBF Legend Full Member

    12,259 2,282
    I agree entirely Elaine - if this lady decides she wants us to deal with it thats exactly the basis on which I'd proceed.

    Its astounding/beyond belief that HMRC havent dealt with cases like this properly when they've had the information!:mad::mad::mad:
     
    Posted: Nov 4, 2010 By: MyAccountantOnline Member since: Sep 24, 2008
    #11
  12. MBS Accountants

    MBS Accountants UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    55 15
    The lady I have spoken to is a 62 year old from Devon.
    Her main job is with the NHS as a nurse and does bank shifts as her second job (being taxed at BR).
    She receives a state pension and her tax code on her main job has been adjusted to 87L to reflect.
    She has a demand for underpaid tax for 2008/09 and 2009/10 totalling over £5k which they are asking for as a lump before Christmas. She obviously cannot afford this and is rather distraught.
     
    Posted: Nov 4, 2010 By: MBS Accountants Member since: Feb 5, 2009
    #12
  13. David Griffiths

    David Griffiths UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

    11,434 3,564
    Perhaps you have already done so, but I'd point out to the Revenue that it is the responsibility of the employer to deduct the correct amount of tax. It's far from uncommon for employees of health trusts to have two separate payment arrangements but in most cases the employer applies basic rate to the smaller arrangement.

    In this case the employer has given double the normal amount of personal allowances which is clearly incorrect. If they've got it wrong, they should stand the bill.
     
    Posted: Nov 4, 2010 By: David Griffiths Member since: Jun 21, 2008
    #13
  14. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    Thanks David - that is what Andrea has been working on but in any case the ESC can be applied because exceptional circs are met:

    Exceptional Circumstances

    In exceptional circumstances, arrears notified less than 12 months after the end of the relevant tax year may be considered where both of the following apply:

    • HMRC failed more than once to make proper use of information received about a source of income

    • HMRC allowed tax arrears to build up over two whole tax years
    We are going to use the above as the main basis of all cases plus 'our precedent' case.

    Other circs such as those you mentioned can also be quoted.

    These also apply to Nicola's case.

    IMO HMRC are bullying people here!!!
     
    Posted: Nov 5, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #14
  15. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    HMRC have said:

    If the payment due is £2,000 or more HMRC will not expect you to pay until after the 31 December 2010 and will contact you after this date about how to pay.


    from here:


    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/p800/paye-tax-calcs.htm


    Advice to all cases to quote this and tell HMRC to bugger off!


    We then can get the ESCs off between now and December.


    Again another clear example of HMRC bullying tax payers.


    WHEN WILL HMRC STOP THIS APPALLING BEHAVIOUR?
     
    Posted: Nov 5, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #15
  16. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    Also see this ....

    If collecting your underpayment through your code would cause you financial difficulty

    It is important that you contact us as soon as possible using the address or phone number on your P800 Tax Calculation. If we agree that collecting the underpayment over one year would cause you financial difficulty we may be able to spread the underpayment over two or three years.



    source:
    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/p800/paye-tax-calcs.htm
     
    Posted: Nov 5, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #16
  17. mart.vader

    mart.vader UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1 0
    I just thought I’d run this past the Tax experts on this forum to see what they thought.

    I am having some problems with HMRC. I am on a low income, but I manage - I have low bills and low expenses. I have a small occupational pension running that pays me £3650 pa and I get £10,200 pa from rent on a property that I own, and from this year, small amounts of interest from savings accounts – probably under £50 pa.

    HMRC used to deduct the tax due on all my income, from my pension. They stopped doing this, I asked them to continue, but they said they could not do it because my pension was too small to allow this any more. They said there was a shortfall of £295. Because of this, I told them I would pay this off as and when I could. They said this was OK and I paid £50 towards the shortfall.

    In around Jan 2010, I got a statement that said my tax liability was nil, but it didn’t mention my £50 payment. So I tried to ring them on and off for several weeks until around March, got no answer, on any of the phone numbers, just music on hold, going to “please try again later” I didn’t pay any more because I didn’t know where my £50 had gone to, and I thought I had nil tax liability.

    In June 2010, I wrote to them and said I had been trying to speak to them since March and asking where my £50 was. They replied in September 2010 and said I now owe them around £628 (around 2 years back tax + interest) and they had been applying interest to the sum.

    They told me I owed them £295 for 2008/09 and £312 (i.e. £362 minus £50) for 2007/08 in back tax, which they had been unable to collect in previous years – this was because “originally the tax owed was transferred to be collected via your PAYE coding however as you (sic) currently not liable to income tax the amount has been put back into your Self Assessment Account”. IIRC, this was the first time they had told me I owed them anything for 2007/08

    I phoned them in October 2010 and said it was unfair – they were charging me interest on money that I was unaware that was owed, only because they were uncontactable. I was told I could appeal the interest, As far as I can recall, I agreed to put aside £100 per month to repay the £600ish bill by next April. They agreed to this and said they would put the details in the post.

    I sent a letter in October 2010 appealing the imposition of interest, saying it was unfair to impose interest on money that they were unable to tell me, was owed.

    When I got their details of the £100 pm payment, they sent me 6 payment slips, it seems that they consider that I have agreed to a payment plan which if I do not stick to, they will take further action.

    I rang them last week and said I did not agree that I was on a payment plan and said I would stop paying and only re-start paying after they told me why they were charging me interest on money that they had not told me, was outstanding.

    I got two letters from them on Friday 04 November, one says that I must pay the arrears of £100 immediately and if I do not keep to the payment plan they will take further action such as taking funds from my bank account, selling my assets at a public auction or registering the debt at county court.

    The other letter, the reply to my appeal, says “the amounts owed could not be collected via your code as you doe (sic) not pay any tax, because of this the amounts owed were put back into the Self Assessment statement and interest was charged.”

    That’s it, that’s the whole explanation as to why they are charging interest ”. and interest was charged” They did not address the fairness of it or otherwise, at all. The interest on £628 is not a huge sum, I think they want £20 in interest, but it does rankle.

    What do you think? Thanks for any advice and sorry for the long post.

    I've just had a look at my SA tax return for 08/09 and I actually had a net income of about £100 for that year, I lived partly on my pension which was mostly cancelled out by the expensess on my rental flat, and partly supported by already taxed savings. and tax-credits.
     
    Posted: Nov 8, 2010 By: mart.vader Member since: Nov 8, 2010
    #17
  18. Alpha

    Alpha UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    4,130 518
    Lady has been on incapacity benefit and in receipt of a works pension for the last 10 years.

    HMRC are now claiming £900 for 2008-9 and 2009-10 and of course £450 for 2010-11.

    She has suffered from mental illness and currently doesn't have a lot of money outside the two incomes mentioned so cannot repay this demand.

    in this case I don't think HMRC have a leg to stand on :)
     
    Posted: Nov 9, 2010 By: Alpha Member since: Feb 16, 2004
    #18
  19. Julies bookkeeping

    Julies bookkeeping UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    148 23
    Sorry may be a silly question, but if someone received a demand a couple of weeks ago should they not also receive a new tax code to be used for PAYE, so it does not continue into the 10/11 year?
     
    Posted: Nov 10, 2010 By: Julies bookkeeping Member since: Mar 10, 2008
    #19
  20. elainec100@cheapaccounting

    [email protected] UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    13,268 2,882
    yes they should
     
    Posted: Nov 10, 2010 By: [email protected] Member since: Nov 4, 2005
    #20