Planning a website

[maxine]

Interested to know a few tips or experiences on planning a website or do you just make it up as you go along or leave it to your designers



Thanks

 

[AlexK]

Plan all of it, write all your content, make it easy to use, make them easy to contact you and make the benefit/advantage of using you stand out in a bold statement right at the front of the site

 

[MJBMI]

quickie as Im busy today, but I suggest working on a flowchart or mindmap basis to plan your pages and links and the ideal psths youd like your visitors to take once on your site

 

[Dawg]

Get Fisicxcal, (but then get some nice eye candy done just to wind him up...)

 

[fisicx]

Damn, I've been Dawged again.

This is the process I've developed over the years: http://www.aerin.co.uk/design-process.htm

As others have suggested, the layout/template is one of the last things to do. If the site has been built correctly then the CSS is the easiest part of the job and is where all the eye candy resides.

The biggest problem with many designers is their insistence on beginning with the layout and then forcing the content to fit.

 

[maxine]

Thank you everyone.

Fisicx has been absolutely lovely with help and guidance so far (ripping my other site to shreds in the nicest possible way xxx )

It has prompted me to try to see this from a customers perspective but it is really hard going as I just get sucked into jargon or flows that make sense to me rather than a potential customers point of view so am finding it hard.

I have even more post its on the walls than usual (sorry Anna, I know you hate my obsession with post its). Finding it quite tough to be honest.

I have started off with a flow chart then got my knickers in a knot where I need things to link back etc but have persisted with this and the plan is a bit clearer.

A work in progress can be found here http://www.maxxy.co.uk which is live and being done as I go along from plans. I guess I am at the stage of second guessing the plans and thinking that I should have done it completely differently!! arghh!! Still, it is better than I had before

 

[MrsPWN]

Congrats for working it all out, I am at that stage at the moment.

I had a quick look and the 1st thing that jumps out at me is the Way Every First Letter Is Capitalized In Some Places not sure if it is just me but when I read that in makes me automatically emphasize the 1st letter in my head and drives me crazy! I have been known to leave a website in a fit of pique rather than struggle on, just a thought....

Will go back abd have a play

 

[maxine]

Thanks MrPWN

Yes, that is deliberate I know it looks a bit odd to start off with but this has worked well for other things that we have done with newsletters, mailshots etc so I am experimenting with this approach

 

[MrsPWN]

Another quickie I thought I recognised the phone number (used to live in St Neots) so I googled the code and 1st 3 digits, it pulled up your website straight away but it looks like a previous version, codes and broken links.

Hope you don't mind me pointing things out?

 

[cmcp]

I've not looked at your website, but planning is the key to any successful project. This is where experience and methodology come into it. If you love postits I'd second the above recommendation of mind maps. For a project of the size you're talking about the above advice from fisicx is perfect. I was recommended FreeMind from a user on here and never looked back. Previously I was using Mindjet.

I think postits are great too! You are on the right side of the fence. There are many aspects that arise during planning - objectives, users, usability, budgets, technologies, scalability. You are on the right track with the customer perspective too. On larger projects you can consider interviews and focus groups.

Some of this might seem like jargon, but when you take your time to learn what it all means (your agency / team certainly should) it becomes simple.

My recommendation would be always use wireframes. This way it's easy to work out your usability with the site objectives in mind.

I'd also recommend this first page you tackle before the design stage is your sitemap. This will simplify your end user experience, which makes for a happy customer.

If you can stomach it and wish to learn more I'd recommend looking up some PRINCE2 tutorials which will guide you through managing enterprise projects, but the principles can be applied to anything.

 

[MrsPWN]

I went and googled you again and it was fine, must have been a glitch
Website looks v good, easy to understand and navigate.

 

[maxine]

Another quickie I thought I recognised the phone number (used to live in St Neots) so I googled the code and 1st 3 digits, it pulled up your website straight away but it looks like a previous version, codes and broken links.

Hope you don't mind me pointing things out?

LOL... you are ahead of me! I haven't added the telephone number to my content yet ... It's on my list or a post it somewhere

Thanks anyway, I will do that sooner now

Thank you and St Neots lovely place

 

[silver]

I wrote a very detailed brief and then had a meeting with my designer. I made a point of having examples of websites and specific features I liked. So, when we came to discuss my own website I could show these and my deisgner told me what was feasible and what wasn't. Not being technically minded some ideas I really liked were completely dismissed but usually for good reason!

Good luck!

Alison

 

[TheAlbear]

Start with the content and the message.

Then take it to a good agency, they will help with the information architecture and how best to get the message across then come a basic web map, followed by some wireframes, then as the final step comes the design.

We always like a basic budget as it helps put the design / functionality into a ball pack and stops us coming up with things which are just not feasible.

 

[eventdomain]

Don't like being involved in the techy stuff (it drives me nuts) so like to just decide what I want, and leave it to designers to turn my ideas into reality.

Its when they start talking webby talk, I just don't want to know hehe

 

[Mellijelli]

Hi Maxine

I think to have a good website designed you would have to definitely discuss what it is you have in mind beforehand, more or less how you would like the final setup to look and come up with the best layout of the site itself first, I myself prefer a website which is easy to navigate and where I dont have to go through 5 different links to get to the actual page im looking for, some websites iv been on are rather more like Chinese puzzles than anything else, and that could get frustrating especially if you want to find information quickly, the simpler the better and too much info on a page can get confusing and thus make people think this is just a mission and im not going to bother anymore and move onto the next best site, the Designers will be able to tell you what will work for you and what is a no no, as long as they have the general idea and content you would like to work with you should be fine.

 

[fisicx]

I think to have a good website designed you would have to definitely discuss what it is you have in mind beforehand, more or less how you would like the final setup to look and come up with the best layout of the site itself first

Which, if you had read the preceeding posts, you would realise is the wrong way to plan a website.

Content > Navigation (wireframe) > Coding & Programming > Testing > Layout > Testing > Publish

 

[maxine]

OK, thank you all very much for your help and advice. I should have said before that I was going to attempt to do this myself and only if I wasn't happy with the outycome would pass out to designer.

I had an old website and the content was just being added to and added to without any real thought to the navigation or flow and since I didnt like the design much either, I decided I needed a re-haul.

I took advice from some people on here (especially Fisicx) and tried to make it more customer friendly by taking out my jargon and industry terminology and trying to think of how a viewer would logically visit pages.

In practical terms the only way I found to do this that worked well for me was with post its over a wall so I could keep moving them around until I thought they made sense logically.

I now have a live site which is work in progress www.maxxy.co.uk and should probably post this for review in the review section but it is more the planning side that I am interested in at this stage in terms of how it flows, whether the navigation makes sense etc. I have looked at this so many times now and questioned my web site plan as I have gone along that I wanted to get a view from others on how they planned their sites.

I did find lots of templates on my travels that I liked but having taken Fisicx's advice I resisted the urge to choose of them and then fit/squeeze my content into it. I think this is a fairly good fit

Is there anything on the planning side that anyone thinks I have not taken into consideration at this point?

Thank you all again

 

[Mellijelli]

Hi there Fisicx

Yeah you are right I must have skipped that message, but would you not agree that when planning the layout of a sight you would also plan which content and information would go on the pages before uploading them anyway?

I have found NetObjects Fusion Essentials a good design programme to use and it is absolutely free to download, some of the features include: drag and drop design, full website management, website asset management, built-in FTP, form builders, photo galleries, e-commerce tool and lots more.

The NetObjects Fusion Essentials programme is one of the easiest ways to try your hand at building your own web sites.

 

[iArtist]

Hi Maxine

Website looks very nice to me

Just one thing


Most people do a search and spend 2 seconds on each site looking for the one that suits there needs, so while your content clearly (and very well written btw) states what you do, if the main service/benefit doesn't smack them in the eye, they may pop off!

As you offer so much I am not sure the best way to resolve this as I had the same problem myself a while back. I resolved it by cancelling lots of services and just offering a couple!

You perhaps don't want to do that.

Good luck with it .

Leah

 

[Mellijelli]

I think the site looks good, but I would say try doing an opening/cover page to the site highlighting the most important services clearly and then have a "more info" or "other services" link leading to the rest so that the page is not too overcrowded with info, and in so doing you will entice visitors to your site to delve a little further in without hitting them with a very busy page right off the bat.

 

[Dark Phoenyx]

When i design a site. The first thing i do is ask the client what exactly they want on it. What they want the site to look like. then while waiting for them to send me wot it is i need i plan a few different layouts. only when the client has settled on a layout do i start adding content.

If you go off half cocked and spend hours designing a site and the client doesnt like it then you have to start from scratch. the way i see it is that the client is everything, they are paying you to put their vision on the net.

 

[Mellijelli]

Hiya Dark Phoenyx, my sentiments exactly, one has to have a general idea of what the customer is looking for as far as the layout is concerned, once u have the ideas down you are able to then start designing the pages and thereafter planning and mapping out where specific information is to be placed on the pages making sure everything fits in and flows properly from page to page, the target market and services offered are also very important of course as this will be the main focus you wish to draw visitors to the site's attention to, I dont however think there is a fixed way of going about designing a site as everyone's planning process differs.

 

[fisicx]

Yeah you are right I must have skipped that message, but would you not agree that when planning the layout of a sight you would also plan which content and information would go on the pages before uploading them anyway?

When i design a site. The first thing i do is ask the client what exactly they want on it. What they want the site to look like. then while waiting for them to send me wot it is i need i plan a few different layouts. only when the client has settled on a layout do i start adding content.

No No No No No No No No No No

By settling on a layout before the content and navigation is sorted means you end up compromising on the content. Don't even consider anything other than a basic layout until you have the content. Only when the wireframe is tested do you need to knock up the CSS and the site is finished.

 

[Mellijelli]

Yes I will agree with you on that point you have to know what the content will be to make sure you don't compromise any of it by committing to a layout and then realizing afterward you are strapped for space, all I am actually saying is the general layout and content should go hand in hand and they should be worked on simultaneously, well that's the way I do it anyway, every Designer has their own preferences as to how they work out everything.

 

[fisicx]

Yes I can see your point but since the layout is just a matter of fiddling with the CSS it's not a major task and can be completed towards the end of the project.

 

[MJ Britton]

You can find help with planning and implementation at marketing-strategies dotcom

On there you'll find templates to help you plan, plus the resources page has lots of resources across the web that may be of use.

 

[maxine]

Hi Maxine

Website looks very nice to me

Just one thing


Most people do a search and spend 2 seconds on each site looking for the one that suits there needs, so while your content clearly (and very well written btw) states what you do, if the main service/benefit doesn't smack them in the eye, they may pop off!

As you offer so much I am not sure the best way to resolve this as I had the same problem myself a while back. I resolved it by cancelling lots of services and just offering a couple!

You perhaps don't want to do that.

Good luck with it .

Leah

Thanks Leah

That is what my gut feeling was telling me. I might have to put a few things away in a cupboard (so to speak) and concentrate on pulling out the benefits a bit more.

Problem I also have is that some people who visit are aware of terminology such as pay-per-lead and others don't know so I want to accommodate both.

Thanks for looking and for your feedback - much appreciated

 

[Dark Phoenyx]

lol hi mellijelli, fisicx. Maybe we should just agree to disagree. I mean everyone has their own way of doing it and it works for them. We shouldnt forget that the entire site is important and as long as you get it done ( in any order of your own choosing) and you and the client are happy with it, thats the end goal. that is what matters most.

Phoenyx.

 

[Mellijelli]

Well its not that im disagreeing with anything, I think everyone has made some really good points here, I just think that not everyone's thought patterns are the same when it comes to designing, just like some people learn faster doing the practical hands on aspects of stuff, while others cope better when its presented to them in theory and constructive critisism is never a bad thing

 

[Dark Phoenyx]

You have a point yes. Not everyone is the same ergo they don't think the same. Everyone has and anyone who has read this will be able to make up their own minds as to how they would like to make their own sites.

After all we have the experience and the knowledge to be able to help where we can.

Phoenyx

 

[Mellijelli]

LOL everyone to their own I guess but any advice given will be welcomed and considered, what would a Designer be if you did not have an open mind and give room for improvement?

 

[Dark Phoenyx]

It doesnt just ring true for web designers but to anyone. If you arent open to new things and idea, how far would you get in this world? people like things evolve, we change and adapt our ways of thinking and doing things almost daily.

 

[Dark Phoenyx]

Thats very true. A lot of WYSIWYG editors arent always problem free. but there are aloso a lot out there that you can use.

I did not say fisicx was wrong, I merely stted some of the things Id do when designing a site. with each different type you design there are different ways of doing it. whether you use notepad, dreamweaver ( my app of choice ) or NOE.

 

[Mellijelli]

Place of Design, yes definitely if working on a 300 page website it's totally reasonable that, that would involve some major planning before anything else, the amount of info that would go into something like that is huge, but for a smaller website of say 5 pages would not have to be so involved, one could organize that real quick.

 

[fisicx]

Not necessarily, a 5 page site camn take just as long to plan as a 10,000 page ecommerce store. For example, if you are building a site for adwords then planning is vital and the layout almost inconsequential.

 

[maxine]

Just a quick note to say a HUGE THANK to Richard from Place of Design who has helped me with some "interesting features" of my website that need to be improved.

Cheers Richard

 

[websitedesign]

Business owners can save a lot of time and money by providing as much information as possible:

-Marketing Plan - business objectives, business model, goals, customer profile, competition, industry, SWOT, etc.

-Marketing Material - logo, brochure, business card, print ads, website analytics, information on current internet marketing, SEO, etc.

-Organized content outline - This takes the most amount of time to sort out with the vast majority of website builds

-Desired features to include in website

-Time frame/budget considerations

 

[Dark Phoenyx]

Business owners can save a lot of time and money by providing as much information as possible:

-Marketing Plan - business objectives, business model, goals, customer profile, competition, industry, SWOT, etc.

-Marketing Material - logo, brochure, business card, print ads, website analytics, information on current internet marketing, SEO, etc.

-Organized content outline - This takes the most amount of time to sort out with the vast majority of website builds

-Desired features to include in website

-Time frame/budget considerations

Excellent point made there . Its amazing how much time you can save if the client already has an idea of what it is they are looking for.