PayPal Web payments pro...got scammed!

[S_G_Parkinson]

Hi everyone

I own an e-cig business online and I have always used PayPal Express Payment which is pretty straight forward. I learned that Web Payments Pro would allow me to have the checkout screen on my own domain so I signed up and was approved. I really didn't know it would be any different from a security point of view because after all, PayPal is PayPal as far as I'm concerned. Safe and secure!

I've had about 8 people put through a charge back request and won, even though I provided tracking numbers. I called PayPal and asked why I'm not winning any of these cases and they said that all of my fraud filters were off. I said I didn't know anything about fraud filters and nothing was explained to me. It was a simple upgrade on my PayPal account and I didn't know I had to do anything else. No help was offered in the setup as far as I can remember so really PayPal has left me vulnerable to online credit card fraud by not making sure I understood about the extra security needed. I did speak to someone who helped me integrate but he didn't say anything about fraud filters.

Do I have a claim against PayPal on this matter? It's cost me over £700. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[obscure]

Unfortunately I am pretty sure the answer is "no".
1. You are responsible for running your business and ensuring you protect your customers and understand the systems you use.
2. I expect the PP T&C contain specific language to the effect that you accept liability in cases like this.
3. I expect PP can point to online tutorials on their site that explain how the service works. As per point 1 it would be your responsibility to read/learn.

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

Unfortunately I am pretty sure the answer is "no".
1. You are responsible for running your business and ensuring you protect your customers and understand the systems you use.
2. I expect the PP T&C contain specific language to the effect that you accept liability in cases like this.
3. I expect PP can point to online tutorials on their site that explain how the service works. As per point 1 it would be your responsibility to read/learn.

This is my gripe though, I wasn't aware of these new features which I had to learn about as they weren't explained to me. I asked if i could host paypal on my site and they said yes i can with web payments pro, then gave me he price and I upgraded my account. Then when I got help integrating the technician said nothing of fraud filters. He simply said 'you're ready to take payments'.

 

[obscure]

I refer you again to point 1 of my post above.... When you decide to use a service it is really up to you to ensure you are aware of the features/requirements.

 

[Crimebodge]

Are you saying all of the 8 chargebacks were related to the same buyer or completely separate?

Are Paypal admitting that the transactions were fraudulent?

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

Are you saying all of the 8 chargebacks were related to the same buyer or completely separate?

Are Paypal admitting that the transactions were fraudulent?

3 chargebacks to one customer, 3 to another and one each for 2 more. PayPal have said that the customers bank claim that the transaction was not authorised. When I have shown emails from the customers and tracking numbers for the parcels I still lose so the transactions have to be fraudulent.

They said something about a global transaction and that the card holders billing address cannot be confirmed but before they purchase they enter their billing address as the same as the shipping address. This is one of the fraud filters which was turned off upon integration. If I'd have known anything about fraud filters I'd have definitely turned this on.

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

I remember I was a PayPal user and I asked about an upgrade to WPP over the phone. The operator said to fill out the online form and he'll approve it straight away. Then when he did we spoke again and he walked me through the integration process. Once it was integrated he didn't tell me anything about the new fraud filters or how to use them. He just said "now you're ready to take orders".

I have looked on the PayPal WPP page and there isn't any direct info on how to use or how to learn to use the fraud filters from what I can see. Besides, when you call a technician to help with the integration process you expect them to get you up and running, not leave you vulnerable to attack.

 

[gengar3]

Wonder why these are not on as standard. The only difference is that your site sends details to Paypal, rather than temporarily leaving your site for Paypal to take the details. The processing part should be the same.

What exactly do you have to change on your website to enable the filters? or is this done through your Paypal account?

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

Wonder why these are not on as standard. The only difference is that your site sends details to Paypal, rather than temporarily leaving your site for Paypal to take the details. The processing part should be the same.

What exactly do you have to change on your website to enable the filters? or is this done through your Paypal account?

It's all done through my PayPal account. Only after all this had happened did the lady I spoke to send me an email of how to edit the filters.

 

[fisicx]

You are using a third party app to accept payments. This has nothing to do with PayPal. Your claim is against the app developer not PayPal.

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

You are using a third party app to accept payments. This has nothing to do with PayPal. Your claim is against the app developer not PayPal.

I thought PayPal are the app developer? All the settings are managed through PayPal.

 

[fisicx]

Sorry, my mistake I thought you were using one of the many plugins.

The WPP pages tell you all about the filters and do suggest you use a developer. Who was this technician? Setting up WPP isn't a 5 minute job, you do need to take your time to make sure all the filters are set up.

It's not paypal's responsibility to make sure your website is setup properly. The only winner if you try to sue them will be your lawyer.

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

Sorry, my mistake I thought you were using one of the many plugins.

The WPP pages tell you all about the filters and do suggest you use a developer. Who was this technician? Setting up WPP isn't a 5 minute job, you do need to take your time to make sure all the filters are set up.

It's not paypal's responsibility to make sure your website is setup properly. The only winner if you try to sue them will be your lawyer.

The technician was the guy I spoke to when I called PayPal. Basically everything was done over the phone and no mention of filters was made. As for the website being set up properly, thats not the issue I shouldn't think as the filters are edited through the PayPal control panel.

If I ask a PayPal technician to help me set it up and he leaves all the filters off, without even a mention of them, or even directing me to some learning material on the website, then I would assume then that it IS his responsibility to make sure that I at the very least understand how to use the PayPal WPP control panel. He literally got it integrated then said ''That's it, you're ready to go".

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

In a nutshell, the reason I hope PayPal is at fault is because of the following;

1. I did not apply through the website. I applied over the phone so the person I spoke to should have made me aware of all features of WPP when he pitched it to me.

2. I did not directly apply for WPP. I merely called up to ask if there was a solution for hosting PayPal on my own domain so that my customers aren't taken off my site. This is when I first found out about WPP so there's no reason for the PayPal rep to assume that I knew about the features.

3. Since I didn't have a developer, I asked for help integrating it into my BigCommerce store so it's really up to the PayPal technician to make sure it's done properly.

4. At no point in the whole process was I directed to help pages about WPP or even asked if I knew how to use it. I was told that the integration was completed and that I am ready to take orders.

...when someone calls you and you pitch a product to them, you need to make sure they know about it by either telling them or/and pointing them to information on how it works. If you don't tell them about security features and something happens then surely that's not the customers fault.

 

[antp__]

Do they record their calls. Do you have dates and times you could ask for the transcript?

This is going to be a tricky one as I'm sure their terms will get them out of this.

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

Do they record their calls. Do you have dates and times you could ask for the transcript?

This is going to be a tricky one as I'm sure their terms will get them out of this.

I have an email which the technician sent to me with a link to the sign up form. He said fill out the form then let him know and he'll immediately accept the application and call me back to integrate it. The only terms available on the sign up page is the privacy policy.

If they record their calls then hopefully that'll help me, but we're talking September when I signed up.

 

[fisicx]

All he did was add the code to your site. He didn't setup your account. That's your responsibility. If you had setup the account as explained in their website the filter information is all there.

You have no chance of winning a claim.

As an aside, have you new set up all the necessary filters?

 

[S_G_Parkinson]

All he did was add the code to your site. He didn't setup your account. That's your responsibility. If you had setup the account as explained in their website the filter information is all there.

You have no chance of winning a claim.

As an aside, have you new set up all the necessary filters?

This is the thing. It's easy to say that I should've set up as it says on the website but I didn't apply through the website. My account was set up anyway but not for the advanced filters that Coke with WPP which were all switched off and of which I knew nothing about.

And yes I've made the necessary updates now, cheers.

 

[antp__]

I would personally find it hard to believe PayPal will take any responsibility for this and have to put it down to just another; "learn from your mistakes" moment.

Let us know how you get on if you try and take this up with PayPal as it would certainly be interesting to know.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Chase the people who ordered from you direct for the funds!