Pay per click

[Jumbo137]

Not working for me......Mrs Money see's Mrs Google spending all my cash and wonders why Mr Google isn't sending me customers.....can anyone advise me, free of charge would be good.
My campaign has been going forever and just not seeing the expected returns on my investment.

Alan

 

[seocomp]

Because Mr Google sending you adwords bots

 

[Jumbo137]

EEEeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk, I think that's not a good thing!

Very scary.......? I think?

 

[seocomp]

Every day webmasters write few new adwords bots

 

[Jumbo137]

Is this something I should be doing? Sorry don't understand!

 

[OldWelshGuy]

This thread is surreal

not sure what is your problem? Your phrases are easy enough to SEo, they should be a walk inthe park alsdo for PPC. I can't see the problem.

Here are some questions:-

1. are you phrase and exact matching?
2. Are you using different landing pages for each phrase?
3. Are you using different ad titles for each phrase?
4. Are you using different offers per phrase?
5. What are your expected outcomes for each phrase?
6. How are you controling the visitor to ensure the chances of achieving those outcomes?

 

[seocomp]

No G pays webmasters when someone clicks on their website ads, so some of webmasters write bots which automatically generate clicks for them. Even you display your ads only on G website your competitors can write bots which change IPs etc and clicks on your ads

 

[fisicx]

Jumbo,

(good advice from OWG)

If you are not getting traffic from you adwords then it's advert that's the problem.

If you are getting the traffic but not the business then it's the website that's the problem.

What do your site stat's tell you?

 

[Jumbo137]

Old welsh guy, i'm an older scottish guy who can take very good photographs, but struggle with the -

1. are you phrase and exact matching?
2. Are you using different landing pages for each phrase?
3. Are you using different ad titles for each phrase?
4. Are you using different offers per phrase?
5. What are your expected outcomes for each phrase?
6. How are you controling the visitor to ensure the chances of achieving those outcomes?

parts of it, this could be Spanish for all I know!

I'm doing pay per click and very few people see my site fewer order any of my packages, so help is needed.
Breast feeding is required (not that I would expect you to do that!)

Alan

 

[OldWelshGuy]

No G pays webmasters when someone clicks on their website ads, so some of webmasters write bots which automatically generate clicks for them. Even you display your ads only on G website your competitors can write bots which change IPs etc and clicks on your ads

Google is very good at spotting fake clicks, also you should have monitoring software in place. Also what are the chances of a competitor running your budget ? I know it is black hat, but I doubt that it would be happening to a photographer in Edinburgh

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I'm doing pay per click and very few people see my site fewer order any of my packages, so help is needed.

What do you mean by "very few see your site"? And, how does this tally with "Mrs Money see's Mrs Google spending all my cash"?

How many clicks have you had?

fewer order any of my packages

How many is "few"?

If you tell us how many people have come to your site and how many of those have bought, we'll have some idea of what's really going on.

Also what are the chances of a competitor running your budget ? I know it is black hat, but I doubt that it would be happening to a photographer in Edinburgh

Exactly.

PPC "problems" tend to be one of 3 things:

(1) you're not getting much traffic

(2) you're getting the wrong traffic

(3) you're getting the right traffic, but it's not converting (or not converting well enough to be profitable)

Ideas about bots and click fraud might make a 10% difference in some campaigns, but if you're losing money hand over fist, it's not your core problem.

Steve

 

[seocomp]

Around 20% (IMHO 30%) Google adwords traffic is FAKE.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Around 20% (IMHO 30%) Google adwords traffic is FAKE.

I don't agree.

I manage a number of campaigns where there's a lot of organic traffic alongside the PPC traffic and the PPC stuff usually converts better.

If that was based on 80% genuine clicks, then it would have to be converting more than 25% better than the free stuff just to be even. More than 25% better to beat it.

That just isn't happening.

IMO, most of these "stats" are made up by "click fraud gurus" trying to make a name for themselves.

Just my 2p,

Steve

 

[seocomp]

In 2006 Google agreed in court to paid $90 millions compensation for click fraud just to few big advert companies. What about all small advertisers ?!?!?

Some info about click fraud:

http://www.clickforensics.com/press-releases/industry-click-fraud-rate-climbs-01-31-08.asp


It takes 5 minutes to find and buy software or to join to 'network' which will click on ads. Of course you will be catch in minutes or days. But what if you write your own software with extras like proxy servers, multi IP etc -1 or 2 days of work. There are thousands of 'clever' webmaster/programmers which never will be catch.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Some info about click fraud:

http://www.clickforensics.com/press-releases/industry-click-fraud-rate-climbs-01-31-08.asp

This is a site that sells click fraud software and claims it gets it's cf stats from what they call the "search advertising industry's leading independent click fraud reporting service"...

...but, when you type in the domain of this "independent" service, it takes you to the site of the company that sells the software!

Sorry, but seeing this sort of dodginess just reinforces my opinion that this is a load of scare-mongering from people that are trying to make a buck from stirring up fears about click fraud.

And, to go back to my point, how does this explain why I see PPC traffic converting better than organic?

(and I'm not alone in seeing this)

If it's as significant as you say, the outperformance of the "genuine" clicks would be truly remarkable.

(personally, I think PPC traffic does convert better than comparable organic traffic, but not by such a massive margin)

Sorry, to disagree so forcibly, but I have to trust what I'm seeing with my own eyes more than these "independent experts" who all turn out to be selling something to do with click fraud.

Steve

 

[OldWelshGuy]

RE: click fraud, you are talking about adsense click fraud. there is no incentive to commit fraud on ads served in Google serps, (well almost none)!

 

[seocomp]

Steve your signature shows that your life depends on Adwords.


" Sorry, to disagree so forcibly, but I have to trust what I'm seeing with my own eyes more than these "independent experts" who all turn out to be selling something to do with click fraud. "

But we must trust you Steve (who sell and manage Adwords campaigns) instead of Search Engine Watch, ADWatcher, ClickFacts, WebProNews, Click Forensics and plenty more ?


" And, to go back to my point, how does this explain why I see PPC traffic converting better than organic? "

You see PPC traffic converting better because you are ADWORDS CONSULTANT, so I will not discuss with you.

Steve if you do not belive in click fraud I can start (when I will have some spare time) botnet and I am sure your ADwords will not detect me.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

This is going to take time, so I will do a step at a time.
1. are you phrase and exact matching?

if you are targeting wedding photographers Edinburgh, an are putting those words in as your search phrases, then you are likely to show for any search that includes ANY of those 3 words.

someone searching for wedding photographers Llandeilo for example, could trigger your ads. AH! You say, but people from mid Wales will know I am in Edinburgh, so will not click on my ad! TRUE! Apart from the fact that every impression you get that does not convert into a click through weakens your ad value in the eyes of Google, so you will appear further down the page. In AdWords, it is NOT 'he who bids most goes top'. That was overture, and even they are trialling algorithmic ad placements

OK down to the meat.

You have 3 options in Google
a. broad matching e.g. wedding photographers Edinburgh
b. Phrase matching e.g. "wedding photographers Edinburgh"
c. Exact matching e.g. [wedding photographers Edinburgh]

I have eplained A. So on to b. Phrase matching

"wedding photographers Edinburgh" will result in your ad only showing when the search term includes the phrase as a phrase match
e.g.
cheap wedding photographers Edinburgh will result in your ad showing.
cheap wedding photographers in Edinburgh will not trigger your ad.

c. Exact matching [wedding photographers Edinburgh]
this setting will only allow your ad to show when the search term is EXACTLY the term you are tartgeting ie. wedding photographers Edinburgh ANYTHING ELSE will not trigger it.

The key to success in adwords is constant refinement. you should constantly be monitoring traffic from your broad and phrase matches, and adding them to exact and phrase (if they are not already there. This will allow you to bid lower on exact matches, and this will do 2 things.

1. It will ensure your add is going to appear when the exact phrase is used, this will result in a far higher Click Through rate (CTR), which will give you a far betting Google quality Score.

2. It wil mean your traffic is far more likely to convert (assuming you have the other elements in place.

3. Because of the above, you will be paying less for a higher position.

e.g You are paying a maximum of £0.21 per click, the guy above you is paying £0.40. His CTR is 1:10, yours is 2:10 . Google will show your ad ABOVE his ad as for every 10 impressions, your ad generates £0.42, while his generates £0.40 So you will be paying around half as much as him for a better position

No time to run through more tonight, but I am sure that will help you understand a little better.

OWG

Old welsh guy, i'm an older scottish guy who can take very good photographs, but struggle with the -

1. are you phrase and exact matching?
2. Are you using different landing pages for each phrase?
3. Are you using different ad titles for each phrase?
4. Are you using different offers per phrase?
5. What are your expected outcomes for each phrase?
6. How are you controling the visitor to ensure the chances of achieving those outcomes?

parts of it, this could be Spanish for all I know!

I'm doing pay per click and very few people see my site fewer order any of my packages, so help is needed.
Breast feeding is required (not that I would expect you to do that!)

Alan

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Steve if you do not belive in click fraud I can start (when I will have some spare time) botnet and I am sure your ADwords will not detect me.

Well Im am stunned to see a so called SEO professional threatening another person, on an open forum with amn illegal activity. Click fraud is illegal in the eyes of Google but MORE importantly in the eyes of the law, where it is theft!

I think you are missing the point again though, we never sai we don't believe in click fraud, hell only an idiot would say that. What is being said is that it is unlikely to affect a small photographer in Scotland who is only advertising on Google search result pages

 

[seocomp]

OldWelshGuy

1) Its not illegal if he start new Adwords campaign and agree to do tests on his expenses.

2) I am not treating him. Where I say I will start?

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Steve your signature shows that your life depends on Adwords.

You're choosing to misrepresent me. I guess you're doing that to try to win a point. Of course, if that point only makes sense if you misrepresent me, it's probably not particularly valid...

The truth is that adwords management is one of the services I offer, but I offer other services that have nothing to do with adwords (e.g. copywriting).

" Sorry, to disagree so forcibly, but I have to trust what I'm seeing with my own eyes more than these "independent experts" who all turn out to be selling something to do with click fraud. "

But we must trust you Steve (who sell and manage Adwords campaigns) instead of Search Engine Watch, ADWatcher, ClickFacts, WebProNews, Click Forensics and plenty more ?

I'm not asking people to believe me.

If people are receiving both PPC and organic traffic, it would be easy for them to test what I'm saying.

They just have to compare the conversion rate of the two sources of traffic. Then ask themselves, if 20-30% of the ppc clicks are fraudulent, does the conversion rate make sense.

(and, if they want to do it properly, they should remove searches on their business name, which tend to inflate the organic conversion rate)

" And, to go back to my point, how does this explain why I see PPC traffic converting better than organic? "

You see PPC traffic converting better because you are ADWORDS CONSULTANT, so I will not discuss with you.

Now, you seem to be suggesting I'm lying about what I'm seeing in order to "trick" people into using PPC.

That's just daft.

(and, frankly, very ignorant)

Steve if you do not belive in click fraud

Another attempt to misrepresent my position.

As oldwelshguy said, I'm not saying click fraud doesn't exist, I'm just saying those stats of 20%+ don't tally with what I see in the conversion rate of campaigns.

I think you're really desperate to win a point - so desperate that you're
trying to construct a straw man argument.

So, there's no real point in continuing this discussion. It's gone too far past stupid to be worth my while.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

Hi Alan

Check you setting and see if you have the "content PPC" on, if so I would strongly recommend switching it off. I have never had one useful click form this, and it would eat up to 40% of my budget if i let it.

Google will always spend your maximum budget. The way to suss this is to get clever, not to increase your spend. Also, go regional, Wedding Photographers Edinburgh, is a lot cheaper than Wedding Photographers. From my experience "county" level is the cheapest.

Don't just have one add, have a whole collection of them, for different towns, or different products, or concentrating different keywords. Then you can see which areas eat money without generating leads.

Use your keyword tools, and your google analytics.

Finally are you sure that its a PPC issue and not a website issue? If your website isn't projecting the right image, then even though you used PPC to get someone to your site, it won't conver to a sale. Examine your bounce rate on analytics.


(Sorry to interupt the squabbling, boys!)

 

[nass]

Remember that you can target by area as well. It's not 100% accurate, but look under "Edit Campaign Settings" > Target Audiences - Location (at the bottom). That way you can. for example, try and make sure that your ad for wedding photographers in edinburgh is only shown to people in a 30 mile radius round edinburgh.

In terms of budget, try and spend some time understanding the difference between phrase and broad matching. Broad tends to be broader than you want (so you end up adding negative keywords), and phrase tends to be narrower (it requires seperate entries for singular, plural, different word order)

 

[OldWelshGuy]

OldWelshGuy

1) Its not illegal if he start new Adwords campaign and agree to do tests on his expenses.

2) I am not treating him. Where I say I will start?

SEOCOMP, I am not going to get into a slanging match with you, I already highlighted where you threatened him. But I will do it again for you.

Steve if you do not belive in click fraud I can start (when I will have some spare time) botnet and I am sure your ADwords will not detect me.

NOW you seem to be trying to backtrack on your threats. Forgive me but would you like to point out in your post exactly WHERE you suggest some sort of agreement? exactly WHERE you suggest a new campaign?

NO ! What you have said is 'as soon as I get time I can start an illegal campaign and his anti fraud will not pick it up.

AS I said, based on your original post (not your firefighting backtracking second post claiming 'with his agreement'), it as an illegal threat, which is so sad on a professional forum.

We will be arguing over who's dad is bigger next

 

[seocomp]

OMG.

I suggest that if he do not believe I can start. It doesnt mean I will start and I didnt say on his Adshit account. I manage quite a few adwords account and can use mine for demonstration purposes or can do test on his. I did not say I will still his money and if you are trying to suggest this you bulling me on public forum !


I can do a lot of things. Is it means I threatening you him or MP?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

OMG.

I suggest that if he do not believe I can start. It doesnt mean I will start and I didnt say on his Adshit account. I manage quite a few adwords account and can use mine for demonstration purposes or can do test on his. I did not say I will still his money and if you are trying to suggest this you bulling me on public forum !


I can do a lot of things. Is it means I threatening you him or MP?

SEOcomp, look, just step back, take a deep breath, and read what you posted. You are now making yourself look foolish

You are now resorting to swearing to get your point across!

YOU SAID (and I am quoting this now for the THIRD time

I can start (when I will have some spare time) botnet and I am sure your ADwords will not detect me.

You are clearly indicating that when you get time you can get going, and it will be against HIS adwords account, unless I am misunderstanding how 'your adwords will not detect me' can be taken to mean something else other than HIS adwords account?

I am not bullying anyone, it is yourself who is being aggressive here and attacking others. You have now turned your attention from him to me.

Not sure what you mean by MP either?

There is a saying, it goes. When in a hole, p[ut the shovel down. I put it to you it is time to lay down the digging implement

I have said what I have to say, I think it is best for others to read what you posted, and for them to decide whether or not you have threatened to commit click fraud against another members adwords account, purely to prove that adwords fraud exists and you are right? Self fulfilling prophect there.

It is like the bloke who went to the doctors with a big smile on his face. He said to the doctor, " hey doc, a year ago today you told me I have a year to live, and here I am as healthy as ever" So the doctor pulled out a gun and shot him

 

[seocomp]

His adwords because he is ADWORDS CONSULTANT AND DEFENDER.

I can start swearing when I will have spare time. It doesn;t mean I will !

"it is yourself who is being aggressive here and attacking others" which OTHERS maybe just him ?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

His adwords because he is ADWORDS CONSULTANT AND DEFENDER.

I can start swearing when I will have spare time. It doesn;t mean I will !

"it is yourself who is being aggressive here and attacking others" which OTHERS maybe just him ?

I am not going to get into a slanging match, as I said. I will leave it now for others to draw their own conclusions.

 

[MK Financial Solutions]

SEO,
I am not an expert and looking into SEO side of things, can I ask how much you charge? is the money upfront or on delivery?

 

[Mark Pocock]

Go to amazon and buy Perry Marshall's book
and work your way through that doing exactly
what he says!

or

hire Steve to write some kickass Google ads for you.

OK?

If your site isn't converting change your
sales copy. You haven't got into the mind of your prospect.
And you probably don't have an irresistible offer.

If you're sending targetted traffic to your site and you ain't getting sales
that's your problem.

cheers Mark

(No I'm not an affiliate of Steve's...)

 

[OldWelshGuy]

If your site isn't converting change your
sales copy. You haven't got into the mind of your prospect.
And you probably don't have an irresistible offer.

If you're sending targetted traffic to your site and you ain't getting sales
that's your problem.

Well put. it is amazing how many people try to make things complicated1
Web marketing is basic stuff. fnd the bottle nexk, deal with it, monitor the results.