Parcel firms failing to deliver on performance

[WaveJumper]

Interesting article this morning from the BBC on delivery firms:
Its seems that most did not come out unscathed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59385232

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Well Wave !
For £5.99 you get a good deal with the parcel companies .
Not many people would drive 2 or 300 miles for £5.99 .

This report was made by a reporter that understands nothing about the transport industry

I dont really go in for the line that the service must deliver the terms and conditions . ! In the real world you always get what you pay for . !

 

[MBE2017]

I wonder what score the BBC would get for keeping to its terms, remember all those OAP’s forced onto tv licences, how independent they appear.

If you take just Royal Mail delivering to 31 million people in a year, even half a percent, results in 155,000 complaints. Unlike many services offered, all these companies attempt delivery without even knowing if the address is correct, or if someone is even home.

As Jeremy points out, you get what you pay for, not enough want to pay more. Personally I think the UK public and businesses are lucky to have such affordable services at such high success rates.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

There have been massive improvements by all courier services over the last few years so no complaints by me and Royal Mail will now get your local postman to pick up anything you need to send to save you walking to a post box or office, so all in all they seem to be investing in the future and keeping costs down

 

[Paul Norman]

This also does not stack up to real life experience.

I don't mean that anecdote from my Uncle, whose thing from the webs didn't arrive, despite him fighting for king and country.

I mean ecommerce businesses who send out 100's of parcels a day, and find that over 99% of them arrive in a timely way. And when you analyse the no deliveries it is often not as one sided as we seem. In fact, I had a non delivery just last week. It turned out the person didn't quite understand where they lived and had addressed the parcel incorrectly.

I reckon that, considering in many cases the delivery depends on a person earning less than a fiver an hour, working 59 hours a day, getting abuse on the local facebook community page, we should not be too amazed if from time to time it unravels slightly.

Which industry will the BBC try to undermine tomorrow, from their rather generously paid bit of moral high ground?

 

[japancool]

For £5.99 you get a good deal with the parcel companies .
Not many people would drive 2 or 300 miles for £5.99 .

But Jeremy, they're not driving 300 miles. They all operate a hub and spoke model, so your local courier only has his area to cover. It is presumably not the same model as you operate, which is a different matter entirely.

 

[japancool]

This also does not stack up to real life experience.

I don't mean that anecdote from my Uncle, whose thing from the webs didn't arrive, despite him fighting for king and country.

I mean ecommerce businesses who send out 100's of parcels a day, and find that over 99% of them arrive in a timely way. And when you analyse the no deliveries it is often not as one sided as we seem. In fact, I had a non delivery just last week. It turned out the person didn't quite understand where they lived and had addressed the parcel incorrectly.

I reckon that, considering in many cases the delivery depends on a person earning less than a fiver an hour, working 59 hours a day, getting abuse on the local facebook community page, we should not be too amazed if from time to time it unravels slightly.

Which industry will the BBC try to undermine tomorrow, from their rather generously paid bit of moral high ground?

The research was done by Citizens' Advice, not the BBC.

 

[Paul Norman]

My

The research was done by Citizens' Advice, not the BBC.

My apologies to the BBC

 

[WaveJumper]

This also does not stack up to real life experience.

I don't mean that anecdote from my Uncle, whose thing from the webs didn't arrive, despite him fighting for king and country.

I mean ecommerce businesses who send out 100's of parcels a day, and find that over 99% of them arrive in a timely way. And when you analyse the no deliveries it is often not as one sided as we seem. In fact, I had a non delivery just last week. It turned out the person didn't quite understand where they lived and had addressed the parcel incorrectly.

I reckon that, considering in many cases the delivery depends on a person earning less than a fiver an hour, working 59 hours a day, getting abuse on the local facebook community page, we should not be too amazed if from time to time it unravels slightly.

Which industry will the BBC try to undermine tomorrow, from their rather generously paid bit of moral high ground?

Yep my son has a contract with a major player and has noticed a big increase this year in people apparently not knowing what address they live at and a case last month of someone claiming non delivery and kicking off until a photo was sent of him standing at the door with the box in his arms...... a few seem to be trying to scam the system (i think a growing trend) no mention of that

 

[Paul Norman]

Yep my son has a contract with a major player and has noticed a big increase this year in people apparently not knowing what address they live at and a case last month of someone claiming non delivery and kicking off until a photo was sent of him standing at the door with the box in his arms...... a few seem to be trying to scam the system (i think a growing trend) no mention of that

Luckily, the delivery company software provides some level of check. If the address is truly wrong, their software will try not to let you type it in. Sometimes, you can find the correct address - Google is your friend. Sometimes, you have to phone the customer.

But there are a range of challenges facing these companies - inaccurate addresses is a big on. People expecting a delivery whilst they are out, is another. We actually, as a society, expect someone, for £5.99, to rock up repeatedly at our house, including in the evening, in case we can be arsed to be in to collect something we want.

 

[WaveJumper]

Luckily, the delivery company software provides some level of check. If the address is truly wrong, their software will try not to let you type it in. Sometimes, you can find the correct address - Google is your friend. Sometimes, you have to phone the customer.

But there are a range of challenges facing these companies - inaccurate addresses is a big on. People expecting a delivery whilst they are out, is another. We actually, as a society, expect someone, for £5.99, to rock up repeatedly at our house, including in the evening, in case we can be arsed to be in to collect something we want.

And when you think about the explosion in home delivery services over the last couple of years to be fair it’s no wonder there may have been issues along the way. I should think for many of the companies their ten-year business plans got thrown out the window.

 

[IanSuth]

most delivery companies address software is better than the governments

Try ordering a lateral flow test kit to a university - all you can do is enter the postcode and choose the address, so for my daughters uni that means the mail room. No option to add the extra detail required as in Hall, flat number and room, so the uni postroom is receiving hundreds of identical packs of tests a week with just a name.

The couriers and food delivery firms are all able to rock up at the front of the correct hall and press the call button for the correct flat without fail.

 

[DontAsk]

Try ordering a lateral flow test kit to a university - all you can do is enter the postcode and choose the address,

Or click the link to say you can't find your address, and enter it manually.

Students, these days...

 

[Hannah_J]

It's interesting to see so many different opinions (and research) on the state of delivery companies. We used this discussion as a basis for a new article:

Do delivery companies need to do more to support small businesses?

Do delivery companies need to do more to support small businesses?

How is your business preparing to deliver orders over the busy Christmas period? If you’re posting products out to customers, the performance of your delivery provider is critical for customer satisfaction. A report out last week by Citizens...

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

Have a read and let us know what you think...

 

[Cookie monster 00]

I think its interesting the way the market has changed in the last few years. CityLink gone, UKMail folded in to DHL, TNT stopped doing UK to UK parcels as part of FedEx and UPS seem to have got a lot cheaper!

I'd recommend anyone having a look at UPS now as they've come down a lot in price.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think its interesting the way the market has changed in the last few years. CityLink gone, UKMail folded in to DHL, TNT stopped doing UK to UK parcels as part of FedEx and UPS seem to have got a lot cheaper!

I'd recommend anyone having a look at UPS now as they've come down a lot in price.

I would say that this is the route cause of all the problems . There is not enough money in the industry to provide a quality service .

We cant have an efficient overnight parcel network system and cheap prices at the same time !

 

[Cookie monster 00]

I would say that this is the route cause of all the problems . There is not enough money in the industry to provide a quality service .

We cant have an efficient overnight parcel network system and cheap prices at the same time !

The problems of price demand has led to closures?

I'd agree if thats what you mean, may well be heading in to price rises as competition decreases

 

[kulture]

I am currently having difficulty with Parcelforce. I ordered coffee and they have failed to deliver twice. Both times I was in but both times they just left a card.
Now I have complained to the retailer and asked them to fix it and they claim that they cannot for “data protection “ reasons!!! I call bullshit.

 

[Newchodge]

I am currently having difficulty with Parcelforce. I ordered coffee and they have failed to deliver twice. Both times I was in but both times they just left a card.
Now I have complained to the retailer and asked them to fix it and they claim that they cannot for “data protection “ reasons!!! I call ********.

It would probably be cold by now anyway. ? I miss the old emojis.

 

[kulture]

It would probably be cold by now anyway. ? I miss the old emojis.

Lol. I miss my morning coffee. I get freshly roasted beans and grind them myself to make my morning more bearable. Now the beans will be less fresh, but even that is not the problem. I cannot grind beans stuck in a Parcelforce depot. So I am getting grumpy without my morning fix

 

[Jass T]

Your dentist will be happy that you are grinding your teeth instead ?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

DPD delivered our parcel at 10.45 today. He had 150 individual drops left to do!

 

[Mark T Jones]

A customer sent me a pack of documents via UPS on Tuesday

Latest update - they should arrive on Monday

Second class post would have been far better.

I'm with @JEREMY HAWKE on this though - its a circular problem,driven by our desire (mostly not need) to buy stuff cheap and have it delivered quickly - and fed by the likes of Amazon

As consumers we have a simple choice of point the finger of blame, or be part of the solution

 

[Cookie monster 00]

I would agree, I recall in the summer before CityLink went bust they were offering any parcel up to 20kg Next day for £5.70+Vat

How on earth that would be sustainable!

I did find out after the OP had written about DHL vs DHL Parcel (formerly UK Mail) and it seems that the quality of service may vary in line with the price. DHL Express will collect with a 3 hour slot but in turn it will be more expensive and they do next day by 9am/12pm whereas DHL Parcel its cheaper but only next day with no 3 hr collection window etc... seems you might get what you pay for even under the same brand

 

[PGTV]

As mailorder we found the following of late

lots of parcels being “delivered“ but customers claiming it was not them. A real headache to sort out.

Royalmail international is very bad of recent weeks with this exact issue. Also many parcels being returned as EU customers do no want to pay custom charges, despite UK VAT being Removed

cost of packing materials have shot up.

customers demand the same level of delivery times/costs to match Amazon, as a small company we cannot compete.

Chinese sellers are ripping uk companies to shreds. We use an agent in China (more of a friend now) - the systems Chinese sellers have to send goods to the uk is incredible. They get a better deal with ”Royalmail” than I do. I might as well operate from China tbh.

 

[Smithco]

We've used pretty much everyone over the years and now stick to Royal Mail and DPD who are the best.

Here's the thing: the people who obsess on price want "free delivery". That often means you using outfits like Yodel and Hermes who are frankly crap. As well as everything they lose or misdeliver, the demographic that obsesses on price and free delivery are the same demographic that "don't receive" things. The combination of both takes the pleasure out of the job and you spend half the week chasing crap couriers and giving stuff away.

You cant have it all ways.

A couple of years ago I started another site specialising in spare parts for one brand of product. I decided to put a flat £6.99 delivery charge on there and trumpet the fact it will be DPD who deliver it. You know what? It works. Most people pay it without issue (for those who complain I suggest they go to eBay and wait a week for Hermes to deliver it to a nearby puddle to save £2). Does it drive a few people away? I've no doubt it does. But those are often the people who you don't want anyway. Y'know, the ones who want to return everything or like to not receive stuff. On that particular site, item not received claims have been 2 this year. One was a fraudster and when we gave him a photo of it by his door, GPS data and a Google shot of his house showing the same door he went away. One DPD actually lost.

 

[Elliott Coleman]

We ship most of our stuff with RM and DHL and to be fair to both of them we very rarely have issues. Now that RM have introduced 3D barcodes to their parcels and now provide GPS co-ordinates at the point of delivery most chancers are quickly disappointed when we provide them with GPS coordinates of their front door.

The one issue that we do still have is credit card issuers demanding card holder signatures as POD. We currently have £200 worth of stuff delivered via RM, delivery confirmation shows delivery and GPS co-ordinates is at the front door or a large building with their name on it. Very clearly the goods were delivered but they still claim it's not been received and we are expecting a charge back very soon. We'll loose that because there is no signature, then we have to decide if it's worth chasing through the courts (because I'm a grumpy old git who hates being taken for a ride) or take it on the chin.

It's extremely rare that the card holder would actually be the person receiving the goods at a business premises. Goods usually go to a mail room or a goods in at the warehouse or a reception. Even if a card holder does sign for the goods the signature more often than not will not match between the card and the PDA. I know when I sign for goods I just squiggle my finger across the PDA. Even at home I may buy something but my wife or son might take delivery and sign for it. The card issuers make it far too easy for people to claim non receipt and disregard all evidence of delivery if a signature is not present even during Covid where no courier in the country is taking signatures, the card issuers have decided that signatures are still a requirement of POD.

I quite like the system that Amazon have introduced for high value deliveries where they email you a one time pin number which has to be given to the driver before the parcel can be left. Something like this shouldn't be difficult for couriers to implement. A random pin could be issued to the shipper when booking the shipment to be passed on to the customer ready for delivery.

 

[MBE2017]

I quite like the system that Amazon have introduced for high value deliveries where they email you a one time pin number which has to be given to the driver before the parcel can be left. Something like this shouldn't be difficult for couriers to implement. A random pin could be issued to the shipper when booking the shipment to be passed on to the customer ready for delivery.

The only problem for the carrier is time, such measures are good for some, but imagine people and suppliers wanting this to become universal, instead of 80/100 daily deliveries you would probably see only 50/70, meaning increased costs.

 

[Red Wood]

I would say that this is the route cause of all the problems . There is not enough money in the industry to provide a quality service .

We cant have an efficient overnight parcel network system and cheap prices at the same time !

This is where volume brings cost savings and efficiencies right? The scale the big courier firms operate at is almost unimaginable. Its a well oiled machine considering. That's how they keep their pricing low.

I will add though, we spend a hell of a lot of time chasing up incomplete deliveries and delays on behalf of customers. Does my head in as customer services come up with the worst excuses, Heard them all.

 

[Elliott Coleman]

Well after 3 days of back and forth emails with this customer who was adamant the delivery had not been made has now magically found our parcel. Apparently his cleaner had taken the delivery and put it somewhere and forgot about it.

He swore blind he had CCTV proving non delivery.

 

[Clodbuster]

We send out >30 a day and over 90% no issue, One last week where the courier pitched up at a customer to COLLECT a parcel for us. Duh.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

We send out >30 a day and over 90% no issue, One last week where the courier pitched up at a customer to COLLECT a parcel for us. Duh.

Was there anything that happened (that may not appear obvious) to cause this "reverse collection"

ie A customer has had a return at the address before and it is stored on the booking system sparking a collection instruction

 

[14Steve14]

I think the problems are two fold. The business shipping the items wants the price as cheap as they can get it because they think that is what the customer wants. The second is that the actual couriers pay peanuts and load many hundred deliveries on the drivers a day thus getting what they believe to be good value from their employee.

Everything is based on lowest price not quality of service. We cannot expect a high quality service that is lowest price as @JEREMY HAWKE says.

Saying that we have some great drivers deliver parcels to us, but there are few who don't seem to care. Our biggest problem is when a delivery goes wrong and there is no actual way to speak to these companies and explain what has gone wrong. its all automated chats, which never seems to get anywhere, or mails that take so long to get an answer to.

 

[Newchodge]

I think there is also an issue with customer behaviour. I see, regularly, on local facebook pages, queries about how to contact the courier, complaints about not having access to courier customer services. The end customer needs to be educated to raise delivery problems with the supplier. While the issues are dealt with (or not) between courier and recipient, the courier's contract holder may not realise quite how appalling the service is. Also if the supplier is having to waste time sorting out delivery problems they may see the valkue in using a better quality courier.

 

[Clodbuster]

Was there anything that happened (that may not appear obvious) to cause this "reverse collection"

ie A customer has had a return at the address before and it is stored on the booking system sparking a collection instruction

Collections are few and done individually. Sorted with one phone call so not an issue.

 

[Clodbuster]

Contact is an issue - if you look at all couriers there are few options for contacting them, We use two and have phone numbers for them which we insist on having.

 

[MBE2017]

Suppliers do not really want to hear about individual missing parcels, it’s a lot of time, effort and manpower tied up dealing with things. The only solution to a poor service is a client willing to pay more, and I hate to break it to you guys, most people are happy as things are.

Even if you paid more, say 30% for a better service, you will still get missing parcels, half of which are normally down to the customer forgetting about a delivery, or not looking around.

The parcel carriers are happy to charge more, if they can get the money, but as usual, Amazon’s disruptive entry into unlimited next day delivery from £70-90 a year, and sometimes up to half that per year, has changed the goal posts and reduced earnings, increased workloads etc.

Be happy with what you have, a 98/99% success rate at stupidly low rates.

If you want a real quality service, pay real dedicated couriers to deliver door to door at £1 plus per mile, and see how many of you really want to pay more. I’m sure Jeremy on the forum will take on more drivers if required.

 

[japancool]

If the customer cannot talk to a human being at the parcel carrier when something goes wrong, you will inevitably get more frustrated customers and more anger directed at the carrier.

It doesn't matter who the contract is with. The customer perception is that the company delivering the parcel is responsible and they want to get an answer. If you tell them "No, I can't speak to you, go back to whomever you brought it from", they're going to get angrier. It may be an attempt to save money on customer service but it's a false saving. Ultimately the supplier will talk to the courier and ask the same question.

Some carriers will allow a certain amount of self-service, such as changing delivery dates or redirecting to a drop off point, or adding instructions. Some will talk to the end-customer, some won't. Some have the ability to talk to the courier, others don't.

The sooner the parcel carriers twig that they have to take responsibility for parcels in their possession, the better.

 

[thetiger2015]

The sooner the parcel carriers twig that they have to take responsibility for parcels in their possession, the better.

I imagine Amazon or someone of that scale will be swooping in soon. It would suit Amazon. The technology they have for integrated services is far beyond the capability of other couriers.

There's a lot of waste in the courier network. Drivers going round the streets looking for addresses, then going back round to an address on the other side of the road an hour later. Lots of 3rd parties with different delivery systems. UPS for example, they don't have a 1 hour ETA window, DPD do, which is great for customers. Royal Mail don't have a 1 hour ETA either, so customers can be stuck in all day waiting for a parcel.

 

[fisicx]

Had 4 deliveries today. RM and 3 couriers. That can’t be efficient.

What I want is every courier to get organised so one man and a van delivers the whole lot rather than me waiting for 4 different slots throughout the day.