Pain in the neck customers.....a rant

[Paul Murray]

I'd imagine with Web design, those people might just be getting a quote to compare to others?

Can I ask if you're sure it isn't that?

You can normally tell when someone's a genuine customer with a genuine project. They'll tell you about it, and have a real passion for what they are doing, and often will have a good idea what they need from you. Typically they'll mention one or two key works in your portfolio they've seen that made them feel you were worth approaching.

But from time to time you get people who are just looking to get something for nothing. Normally something about an enquiry that tells you the project isn't likely to go anywhere, normally lack of information, or a 'copy/paste' feel to the email. This tells me they are just looking for the lowest cost for the work, and if a client is sourcing a designer/developer based solely on cost, they're probably not the sort of person I'd have a good working relationship with.

Obviously I would treat each potential client the same, but I normally know when I'm replying to enquiries which ones are likely to get a response, and which I'll never hear from again.

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

To get back to the original post i.e. using the forum as a sounding board to release some frustration after dealing with a particularly challenging customer, I find that a customer who takes up at least half an hour of our time and then doesn't intend to spend anything, gets short shrift from me. I suppose it depends on what you sell and what your prices are. If you sell something they won't get anywhere else or your prices are rock bottom, theirs will be the loss, not yours. We would have to double our prices if all customers were like that. Fortuneately they are not.
Barrie

 

[Lunazzurra]

Some of my favourite (??) customer comments/actions that wind me up (and other local traders too) are:-

1. "Where are the proper shops around here?" (We are in a shopping mall on the main shopping street in town with names like BHS, Debenhams, Animal, TK Maxx, Primark etc.etc.etc. all close by together with many varied and interesting independents of which we are one. What do they want/expect?).
2. "Why are there so many shops closed down?" (Normally asked very tersely as if it's personally MY fault). (Mostly it's been the well publicized big boys that have gone).
3. "Where are the toilets?"
4. "Where's Sports Direct?" (They've just moved with several massive new signs everywhere - you can't miss them - or can you?)
5. "Can I have change for the (Bob the Builder/Fireman Sam) machine?" (No you bloody can't! Or: there's a bank just across the road. Or: of course you can - if you buy something first then maybe I'll give you some change, hint, hint).
6. "Your clearance greetings cards for 50p - have you got any for 30p? (What? - You tight a**e!)
7. "Oh sorry, wrong shop!"
8. Me: "Good morning! How can I help you?" Customer: "You can't!!"
9. Me: "Good morning!" Customer: "No thanks!"
10. "What time does that shop (200 metres up the road, turn right, up the stairs, turn left, down the corridor) open?"
11. "Are you open?" (Lights on, door open, me behind the counter).
12. "I'd like to buy that picture - it's the spitting image of my cat/dog/budgie (insert as appropriate) - but have you got one with a small blue spot with a pink edge about 2 and 7/8ths of an inch below his mouth/beak?"
13. Customers pointing at (potentially fragile) things on shelves with walking sticks at arms length!!
14. "Oh that's nice. And that. Oh look at that! Lovely. That'll make a nice present for ... I'm going to treat myself. You've got lots of lovely things!" (And then walking out without buying anything).

And I'm sure many of you will relate to this one: Customer puts items on counter, gets ready to pay, mobile phone rings, they walk out to take the call in private, leaving items on counter unpaid for, never to be seen again! Aaaaghh! The money was a second away from being in the till!!!!!

But maybe the one that really, really winds me up is: "Oh no. I'm not buying. I'm just showing my friend/husband/wife/boyfriend which one they bought me for Christmas." (And no, they didn't buy it from me originally).

I hope this helps get back to the OP as I'm sure many of these situations will resonate with other retailers no matter what you're selling. All these situations have actually happened and then some. After seven years owning and running a shop I'm surprised that they still annoy me - but by all accounts I'm not alone in this. If I think of any more I'll re-post.

 

[CompuGlobal-Hyper-MegaNet]

I feel for OP. As much as I am for consumer power, and against unfair contracts, mis-selling and general bad practice on the side of retailers/service providers, I have seen a lot of people on sites such as MSE flying into a rage and quoting SOGA, DSR, instigating chargebacks and using other consumer law in a vicious and confrontational manner over minor errors which they haven't given the retailer the opportunity to rectify.
It is a very difficult situation because you don't want your reputation harmed by this person and they have the potential to launch a vendetta and/or review online. They are legally liable, but enforcing it would be seen as quite a severe measure.
You've done the right thing by walking away from this isolated incident, and have done well to restrain yourself from getting drawn into a fight, however make sure that this doesn't become regular because the lost revenue will harm you if a certain proportion of your customers view the contract as one they can break with no repercussions.

 

[solent66]

There's a phrase that has been sorely missing from this thread: customer service.

Give good service and your customers spread the word, give bad service and the customer spreads the word even further. The person who decides if the service is good or bad is the customer, whether you llike it or not.

Okay, the customer signed up for a twelve month contract, but the OP says that the vast majority are happy and get good use from the gym. Imagine if you had told her "This is an annual contract and we don't normally allow people to cancel them but since you're clearly unhappy I'll make an exception for you. I'd like to ask, though, if there's anything we could do to keep you as a customer."

Do that and the two of you part on amicable terms. She may even respect you more for cancelling a non-cancellable contract. And if she's gives feedback you may learn something which can help your business.

The option you chose - enforcing the contract - leaves you with an unhappy ex-customer and leaves you taking money from someone who really doesn't want to be giving you money. That can't be good for your karma.

And, as you said, the vast majority of customers are happy you only suffer a small loss of revenue from a single customer.

BTW, you brought up that the fact that the entire industry uses the same model. There is actually an entire website based around pay-as-you-go-gyms - http://www.payasugym.com - so this is something other gyms are offering (not enough in my opinion) and which customers are asking for.

 

[japancool]

There's a phrase that has been sorely missing from this thread: customer service.

Give good service and your customers spread the word, give bad service and the customer spreads the word even further. The person who decides if the service is good or bad is the customer, whether you llike it or not.

Okay, the customer signed up for a twelve month contract, but the OP says that the vast majority are happy and get good use from the gym. Imagine if you had told her "This is an annual contract and we don't normally allow people to cancel them but since you're clearly unhappy I'll make an exception for you. I'd like to ask, though, if there's anything we could do to keep you as a customer."

Do that and the two of you part on amicable terms. She may even respect you more for cancelling a non-cancellable contract. And if she's gives feedback you may learn something which can help your business.

The option you chose - enforcing the contract - leaves you with an unhappy ex-customer and leaves you taking money from someone who really doesn't want to be giving you money. That can't be good for your karma.

And, as you said, the vast majority of customers are happy you only suffer a small loss of revenue from a single customer.

BTW, you brought up that the fact that the entire industry uses the same model. There is actually an entire website based around pay-as-you-go-gyms - http://www.payasugym.com - so this is something other gyms are offering (not enough in my opinion) and which customers are asking for.

Excellently put.

 

[Nuno]

Letting a customer walk all over you so you don't get bad mouthed ensures that you will get more of the same sort of customers. Result, eh? The insolvency forum is over there.

Enforcing a contract isn't bad service. If anything it is good service to all the customers who aren't self indulgent, spoilt knobs. The good customers don't have to share with the prat, happily contribute to your profit and thereby ensure a healthy, continuing business for them to benefit from.
Successful businesses know how to say 'No'.

 

[promdressers]

J Cool, why are you being so crap? Have you got an underused gym membership?

Your earlier post suggested that sim only contracts are exclusively for one month with no penalty, In fact you are wrong. I have a sim only contract with a 12 month term - and guess why? It was less expensive to commit for the year.!
OP, I hope you make sure the punter is aware of the loss of bar trade.

 

[japancool]

J Cool, why are you being so crap? Have you got an underused gym membership?

Nope. If you don't like the fact that I put treating customers fairly first, too bad.

Your earlier post suggested that sim only contracts are exclusively for one month with no penalty, In fact you are wrong. I have a sim only contract with a 12 month term - and guess why? It was less expensive to commit for the year.!
OP, I hope you make sure the punter is aware of the loss of bar trade.

Where did I say they were exclusively for a month?

But more to the point, what I object to is the whining about how being screwed over by the customer and are out of pocket when nothing of the sort is the case. It's not like they've had to fork out a load of cash which they won't recover, is it?

As for telling the customer about the loss of bar trade, just remember that two can play at that game. What do you suppose the customer is going to tell all of her customers?

If this thread is indicative of the gym industry, no wonder the topic evokes so much emotion. Justifiably so.

 

[kulture]

Successful businesses know how to say 'No'.

Not quite right. Successful businesses know when to say 'No'.

 

[Nuno]

Pendantik?

 

[solent66]

Enforcing a contract isn't bad service. If anything it is good service to all the customers who aren't self indulgent, spoilt knobs. The good customers don't have to share with the prat, happily contribute to your profit and thereby ensure a healthy, continuing business for them to benefit from.
Successful businesses know how to say 'No'.

And I'm realising that this is not an issue of money, but an issue of power. You want to enforce the contract she signed. Your customer doesn't want to give money to a gym she has no further interest in attending. You both do battle to see who comes out as top dog. You both get stressed, angry and annoyed. You both feel done over.

The real way to take power would have been to cancel the contract. Whether it's right or wrong if *you* had cancelled the contract you would have felt in control. The fact she forced you to cancel the contract put *her* in control. And now you're left feeling out of control and done over.

Financially the end result is the same either way. The difference is in how you both get to feel afterwards.

 

[Nuno]

Psychobabble alert.

 

[Vectis]

.....I've offered to suspend her membership ad infinitum, until she is ready to use the club again.......

You've already said you will allow her to suspend the contract 'ad infinitum' - or, in other words, forever. So, just cancel her contract and let it go. Is it really worth all the hassle and stress?

Must admit, on a personal level, I don't like gyms with 12 month contracts but, if I signed one, I'd stick by it. But, as a business owner, sometimes it's just not worth the bother enforcing it.

 

[peggyprice]

Blimey. I started to read this thread for a bit of light relief and now *I'm* really stressed too! God knows how you've put up with it Nord20!

For what it's worth, anyone reading the OP *without* a bee in their bonnet can see that a) it wasn't whingjng, b) you've bent over backwards to be fair to the client in the circumstances and c) you weren't looking for advice (though you seem to have been given plenty).

Surely everyone here is looking to make a profit from their business? Mr Colman made his money from the mustard that was left on the side of the plate - I don't think anyone expected him to give them a refund for what they didn't use. What's so hard to understand about a business model that expects a client to keep to their side of the bargain, when there's been no duplicitous selling to blame? Every hotel in the world will charge you for your booking if you don't turn up - and they don't incur any additional costs because you're not there either.

Thirty years of running service based businesses and I would absolutely expect my clients to pay the full contract price as agreed - unless I *chose*, for whatever reason and at my own discretion, to let them off. That's nothing to do with customer satisfaction - anyone in a service industry knows that customer satisfaction is critical because it's the only 'tangible' that keeps clients coming back - it's to do with maintaining a viable business.

Humph. Rant over. Goodnight ;-)

 

[kelvin1950]

Totally agree Peggy. Add to that analogy that the hotel has already made up the room for you and will save costs as they won't have to make it up again because you're not coming. Cancellations are better than guests!

 

[ecoleman]

Jeez, some people on this forum are like rabid dogs.

Why have a contract if you are not prepared to enforce it?
The customer had a choice of deals and chose a fixed contract of x months to get a better price. Personally I would not let her get away with it.

 

[Nuno]

Jeez, some people on this forum are like rabid dogs.

Why have a contract if you are not prepared to enforce it?
The customer had a choice of deals and chose a fixed contract of x months to get a better price. Personally I would not let her get away with it.

As a rabid dog may I say thanks for your kind endorsement.
You have a contract to give you the option of enforcing it. Your options might change in the time between any dispute and the initial agreement. Having a contract doesn't tie you to only one set of actions.
You say you would not let her get away with it. Fair enough. I wonder what cost that attitude will entail? Time at the very least.

 

[ecoleman]

As a rabid dog may I say thanks for your kind endorsement.
You have a contract to give you the option of enforcing it. Your options might change in the time between any dispute and the initial agreement. Having a contract doesn't tie you to only one set of actions.
You say you would not let her get away with it. Fair enough. I wonder what cost that attitude will entail? Time at the very least.

I'm not sure what to make of that comment.

Firstly, I was not referring to you with the Rabid Dog statement.
Secondly, you appear to be contradicting your post above.

 

[Nuno]

You are confusing a conditional. Nowhere did I say companies must enforce contracts, did I? Only that they could and in some cases , should.

 

[14Steve14]

A bit confused. I thought a contract was a contract. Why have a contract if anyone can break it just because it suits them.

This person agreed to a contract because of the price she was getting. As she broke the contract, she should at least be made to pay the difference between what she had, and what she should have paid surely.

Does this also mean that any contract can be broken with no consequences, which is what a lot of people are saying. Does good customer service come above what is a legally binding contract. Still confused.

 

[ecoleman]

It seems that my last post was found offensive by some. It amazing what some people find offensive these days.

So Nuno, maybe you would be so kind as to point out exactly where you say that companies should only enforce contracts in some cases.

To help you I've included all of your contributions to this thread bar the ones where you go on to contradict yourself.

You don't have to answer this for me. I'm off, interacting on this forum is like being in a playground with a bunch of kids.

Mods, kindly delete my account.

Letting a customer walk all over you so you don't get bad mouthed ensures that you will get more of the same sort of customers. Result, eh? The insolvency forum is over there.

Enforcing a contract isn't bad service. If anything it is good service to all the customers who aren't self indulgent, spoilt knobs. The good customers don't have to share with the prat, happily contribute to your profit and thereby ensure a healthy, continuing business for them to benefit from.
Successful businesses know how to say 'No'.

Pendantik?

Psychobabble alert.

 

[cjd]

A bit confused. I thought a contract was a contract. Why have a contract if anyone can break it just because it suits them.

A contract is only an agreement between two parties - if both parties agree not to abide by it, then it's ended, ragardless of what is written in it. The decision to enforce the contract is purely a commercial one. The existence of a contract will make most people abide by it. Occasionally they won't, then it's a commercial decision what to do about it.

This person agreed to a contract because of the price she was getting. As she broke the contract, she should at least be made to pay the difference between what she had, and what she should have paid surely.

Yes, but if she refuses to do that, you have to take a view on whether there's more to be gained or lost by pursuing it.

Does this also mean that any contract can be broken with no consequences, which is what a lot of people are saying.

No, of course not.

Does good customer service come above what is a legally binding contract. Still confused.

Sometimes - if that's what the business decides is in its best interests. Sometimes not, in which case the business attempts to enforce it. It's up to them and their judgement.

 

[Nuno]

It seems that my last post was found offensive by some. It amazing what some people find offensive these days.

So Nuno, maybe you would be so kind as to point out exactly where you say that companies should only enforce contracts in some cases.

To help you I've included all of your contributions to this thread bar the ones where you go on to contradict yourself.

You don't have to answer this for me. I'm off, interacting on this forum is like being in a playground with a bunch of kids.

Mods, kindly delete my account.

Byeee!

 

[CWT2k1]

The old rule of thought used to be a happy customer told 1 person and an unhappy person told ten. Now a days with Social Media an unhappy person tells thousands in one shot. Just remember that when ranting online about customers.

 

[Nord20]

Thought I'd give you all a follow-up. We did stick to our guns and through ensuring we remained professional and courteous in our communications with the client, whilst firmly standing our ground, we finally persuaded her that it was in her best interests to keep coming to the studio, which I am happy to say she has been doing regularly ever since and is, by all accounts, very pleased she did so.

Take from that what you will.

I did want to comment on one post, referring to 'pay as you go' gym models. They do exist, they are great value and they do work for businesses, but they are not viable for us for one simple reason - we are not a gym, we offer classes, which require teachers. Pay as you go Gyms usually have a receptionist and possibly a cleaner: you use the gym unsupervised and at your own risk (which you would expect for £5 a month). Ours is a completely different service.

One might even argue that the pay as you go, flat rate, model leads to a disservice for your committed members. Why should someone who attends once a month pay the same rate as a loyal customer coming three times a week? Loyalty and commitment should be rewarded with lower prices, that's the basis of the different pricing options we offer.

 

[cjd]

Thanks for the update - it's always good to hear how things worked out.