Pain in the neck customers.....a rant

[Nord20]

Hi all,
this isn't really a quest for advise or assistance - more of using the forum as a sounding board to release some frustration after dealing with a particularly challenging customer. I figured maybe others could post in here too with their stories and we can all benefit from some amusing anecdotes and hopefully release some tension and frustration.

So, I run a health club type business. We ran a promotion last February, offering people 20% off our annual membership (which is already our cheapest monthly membership by far). Four months later, I got an email from this client, who I will call Jezebel, saying that she had an unspecified injury (not related to any of our classes) and so would be terminating her membership and had already phoned her bank to ensure we could collect no further payments.

I wrote back saying we would be more than happy to suspend her membership for three months, then review the situation (which few clubs will do), but that she couldn't just unilaterally terminate her contract less than half way through.

Three months later, I get a similar email from her (in response to an automated 'your membership will be starting up again soon' email from our CRM system). This one is even more threatening, telling me what horrible people we are, how we have terrible customer service and are basically the scum of the earth.

I politely replied, offering to suspend her membership once again and, once again, asking her to send through the Doctor's note she claimed to have, but had not sent through.

Fast forward another three months (and now we're at last week) and I get another irate email, as she had once again received the automated re-activation email.

I've offered to suspend her membership ad infinitum, until she is ready to use the club again. I've offered to let her buy herself out of her contract for a nominal fee (less than £100, when the amount owing on the rest of her membership is over £600), all without any evidence that there is any reason why she can't use the membership.

To top it off, she is the manager at a local cocktail bar - and I have seen her working there, standing on her feet all day, so whatever is wrong with her (not that it matters), doesn't seem to stop her working a very physical job.

Of course, I will have to let this go - there's no point chasing her, it's always worse for the business.

I'm just super peeved, to put it very mildly, that people can just screw you over like this and because you're a business, with a reputation to protect, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

The only consolation I have is that for the past four years we have held our summer and Christmas staff parties in her bar - that sure as hell won't be happening again.

So, anyone else got any stories to cheer me up?

 

[Poppylong]

i could fill this thread with stories! its always the customers you bend over backwards for. I have fantasy moments of me screaming at them!

 

[Nuno]

So, anyone else got any stories to cheer me up?

I had a customer like that once.
She's buried under the cold store in the back.

 

[Paul Murray]

If the customer was always right, we'd never make any bloody money.

The biggest problem I face as a designer is having a client turn round and refuse to pay because they don't like what I've done. Thankfully this has only happened once, when my guard was down and I did a favour for a friend.

The other problem is 'tyre-kickers' as I call them, clients that have big aspirations and big ideas, but are just a massive waste of time. They have an idea for something, normally a web-business, and want to get the site designed and built, but don't really want to pay the going rate for it, or put any effort into it. It's more of a hobby, a fad where their interest will fizzle out and they'll become un-contactable. Thankfully, I can normally tell who these clients are, and specifying payment terms, etc along with the initial estimate tends to send them running.

When you keep everything strictly business with design briefs, signed contracts and up-front deposits, that tends to keep the quality of clientele pretty high (at least so far).

 

[japancool]

I'm just super peeved, to put it very mildly, that people can just screw you over like this and because you're a business, with a reputation to protect, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

May I ask you something - how have you been screwed over? I don't know how your business operates, but if you had terminated the lady's contract initially and not collected any further money, other than the lost revenue, are you out of pocket?

 

[WarringtonTutor]

For every 100 good customers, there always has to be one terrible one to balance them out

 

[Nord20]

May I ask you something - how have you been screwed over? I don't know how your business operates, but if you had terminated the lady's contract initially and not collected any further money, other than the lost revenue, are you out of pocket?

I am out of pocket to the tune of 7 months worth of membership fees that she agreed to pay when she signed the contract. Had we made her pay up front, she would not have expected a refund part way through the year. But because we allow people to pay monthly, she felt she could just decide when she wanted to terminate her contract.

As an analogy, if you buy something in bulk, you tend to get a discount off the price of a single item. She effectively said she wanted to buy in bulk, got the best price, then changed her mind and only took the single item. That was not the deal and if we did that regularly, we wouldn't last very long at all.

That coupled with the fact that she got an extra 20% discount, which we were only able to afford to do because of the commitment to a year's membership.

So yes, technically it is lost revenue, rather than money being taken out of our bank account, but all our forecasts are based on expected revenues and things like this can throw everything out.

I'm not sure how lost revenue doesn't count as being out of pocket. Isn't that practically the definition?

 

[Talay]

And people wonder why gym membership is such a debated hot potato ?

"I am out of pocket to the tune of 7 months worth of membership fees" - what nonsense

"because we allow people to pay monthly" - so generous of you

"technically it is lost revenue" - no it isn't

"all our forecasts are based on expected revenues" - not her fault your maths is so bad

Seriously, you only have to think outside the box for a minute to see why this has happened which is that for some reason (it doesn't matter what reason) she cannot justify keeping the membership and because of the restrictive contract she signed, she feels she cannot simply tell you the truth.

Extrapolate this forwards and you have a significant percentage of frustrated members who are just going to inflate your churn numbers and where the maximum lifetime income you can expect to receive is the remainder of their annual contract.

Switch this around and rip up your contracts, save for perhaps a months' notice. Be flexible, but within published rules, not some behind the scenes good heart which no-one else sees. Make an advertising feature of your lack of restrictive contracts and offer a discount (12 or 11 months for the price of 10 ?) for annual membership paid in advance.

Then, when someone has left, follow up at 1, 3, 6 and 12 month intervals with a warm and welcoming request to return for a discounted initial period or whatever. Unless you are sweating your assets at 100% you can always find some way of advertising your spare capacity.

 

[IanG]

I often wonder whether for each month of contract you manage to enforce, how many you lose due to the customers' experiences.

 

[WillLoxley]

If the customer was always right, we'd never make any bloody money.

The biggest problem I face as a designer is having a client turn round and refuse to pay because they don't like what I've done. Thankfully this has only happened once, when my guard was down and I did a favour for a friend.

The other problem is 'tyre-kickers' as I call them, clients that have big aspirations and big ideas, but are just a massive waste of time. They have an idea for something, normally a web-business, and want to get the site designed and built, but don't really want to pay the going rate for it, or put any effort into it. It's more of a hobby, a fad where their interest will fizzle out and they'll become un-contactable. Thankfully, I can normally tell who these clients are, and specifying payment terms, etc along with the initial estimate tends to send them running.

When you keep everything strictly business with design briefs, signed contracts and up-front deposits, that tends to keep the quality of clientele pretty high (at least so far).

I'd imagine with Web design, those people might just be getting a quote to compare to others?

Can I ask if you're sure it isn't that?

 

[japancool]

I am out of pocket to the tune of 7 months worth of membership fees that she agreed to pay when she signed the contract. Had we made her pay up front, she would not have expected a refund part way through the year.

You're not out of pocket, you've simply lost revenue. You haven't incurred any additional costs. So you haven't really been ripped off.

In telecoms, it is standard for people to be subject to early termination charges, particularly on mobile contracts. However, mobile providers usually supply a piece of hardware at a subsidised price, which they regain through the monthly charge. You haven't had any initial outlay apart from your sales costs. In fact, arguably, you've had four months worth of revenue that you would not otherwise have had, so really, you're quids in here.

I'm not sure how lost revenue doesn't count as being out of pocket. Isn't that practically the definition?

No. Out of pocket would mean that you've spent money that you were expecting to recover from the remainder of the contract, or that you would be spending money to cover the remaining 7 months of the contract. The reality is, you're not really spending any money to cover contracts at all, because the vast majority of your costs are fixed - they're not going to go up as someone signs a contract.

If a customer reserves one of our normal stock items and then cancels the order, I'm not out of pocket because I would have had the item in anyway. I'll just sell it to someone else. If they reserve an item that I have to order in specially, which then does not sell to someone else, then I'm out of pocket as getting the item has cost me money which I will not get back.

 

[swankypants69]

I think saying the OP is not out of pocket is a little harsh and incorrect

Running a gym has a large amount of fixed costs, say compared to being a one man band web designer, or even a one man band fitness instructor

 

[japancool]

I think saying the OP is not out of pocket is a little harsh and incorrect

Running a gym has a large amount of fixed costs, say compared to being a one man band web designer, or even a one man band fitness instructor

But that's exactly the point, they are *fixed* costs. For all practical purposes, no additional costs are incurred when additional contracts are signed, and someone signing a contract does not stop someone else signing a contract, unless the gym is over capacity and there's a huge long waiting list for membership.

 

[cjd]

If I was running a gym I'd do it the same way I do for my VoIP business. It would be 1 month in advance 'no contract'. No gimmicks, easy in and easy out. Doing it that way makes you very conscious that you have to be good at what you do because people only stay with you if you are.

It also means that people can join on a whim and then get hooked rather than have to make a big financial commitment.

 

[japancool]

If I was running a gym I'd do it the same way I do for my VoIP business. It would be 1 month in advance 'no contract'. No gimmicks, easy in and easy out. Doing it that way makes you very conscious that you have to be good at what you do because people only stay with you if you are.

It also means that people can join on a whim and then get hooked rather than have to make a big financial commitment.

I was thinking exactly that. If the product is good enough and something that people really wanted to use, there shouldn't be any reason to lock customers in. And it would attract new customers who might otherwise not join.

 

[swankypants69]

Perhaps there is a reason why most gyms don't work on an easy in easy out contract

We can't get a new iPhone on an easy in or easy out contract

We can't tie in to a great mortgage rate for 5 years then after 6 months move on without penalty

Yes Japancool they have large fixed costs, therefore require a 12 month commitment from customers that's pretty easy to understand. What happens if 50% of customers decides to jack it in half way through the year

I'm not a member of a gym, but I can see it from the side of someone running a gym

 

[Nord20]

Ok, so I started this thread to try to relieve some stress, not begin a debate on the relative merits of the busienss model adopted by EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS IN MY INDUSTRY.

But since some people are determined to pick holes whenever possible, please let me retort.

1. Yes, we could and do offer single month memberships. These are around 30% more expensive than a longer membership. Like all things in life, if you commit to a business for longer, you get a better rate. This is not unusual or in anyway "wrong".

2. We start with a 2 week intro offer, which is only £30, so no one has to make any kind of commitments. There are then a whole range of pricing options, from single classes, to 10 class cards, to monthly memberships to annual memberships. No one is forced to make any commitment over and above what they choose.

3. Yes, we have massive overheads but not all our costs are fixed. As membership numbers increase/decrease we have to add/remove classes from the schedule. This is why having a rough idea of how many members we will have in the next quarter is so important.

4. Why do you feel the health industry (arguable the most important subscription you can have) should be treated differently to all the other industries you happily sign contracts for - electricity, gas, mobile phone, etc etc. You don't think twice about signing up for a year - or two years - to any one of these providers and they offer no get outs, won't suspend your account when you go on holiday, etc.

5. Additional costs ARE incurred when a contract is signed - there is the admin work for the staff to sort out the new account, a teacher spends time with the new student getting to know them, we regularly communicate with each and every members, etc etc.

6. No, I'm, not spending money to recover contracts and I don't have money taken out of my pocket (literally) when someone cancels early, but I do give them a better rate precisely because they commit to such a time period. If they hadn't essentially lied to me, I would have got more money, sooner - so yes, I am very definitely out of pocket.

7. Japancool - aside from clearly having absolutely no experience running a service based business as opposed to a product based business, you really didn't need to launch into such an attack on a thread that was intended to relieve my stress, not increase it, so thanks for that. To use your analogy (which was completely missing the point), the similar deal would be if someone rang up and said 'you sell dildo's at £20 a pop - I wanna buy 100 of them, so would you do them for £10 a pop for me?' You agree, you both sign a contract, then pile all your dildos into a big box, take them over to him and he says 'actually, I think I'll just take the 1 dildo, at £10, obviously'. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be best pleased about that, even though you can of course sell the rest of the special giant black rubber cocks you ordered specifically for him to other people, but it will take you a while.

8. Talay - similar to Japancool - she had an entire range of membership options available to her and she chose the annual membership. She could have paid per class, as she went. She could have joined for a month. But no, she wanted the cheapest price and so signed a contract for a year, then bailed after 4 months. No one forced her to sign it, no one forced her to choose that membership.

"all our forecasts are based on expected revenues" - not her fault your maths is so bad"

This is the most retarded statement I have ever read on here. A forecast literally is an estimate of your expected revenues and costs. We guesstimate the revenues we will get from single class drop-ins, class cards and monthly memberships, but the expected revenue from signed contracts should be very accurate indeed, but it is not if people renege on their deals.

Incidentally, I have a degree (1st class) in pure maths.

 

[Nord20]

I was thinking exactly that. If the product is good enough and something that people really wanted to use, there shouldn't be any reason to lock customers in. And it would attract new customers who might otherwise not join.

That's just simply not true and again, shows a complete lack of understanding of the industry. We are not "locking people in" - we are offering them a discount on the headline price in exchange for a commitment. Why is that so terrible? The overwhelming majority of our customers that choose the annual membership are very happy with the deal they get. Others prefer more flexibility and are happy to pay a bit extra for it.

Honestly, this conversation is just getting ridiculous.

 

[japancool]

Perhaps there is a reason why most gyms don't work on an easy in easy out contract

Why?

We can't get a new iPhone on an easy in or easy out contract

Because, as I pointed out above, iPhones are subsidised by the service provider. You can in fact get one on an easy in and out contract - just buy the hardware outright, and you can then get a monthly contract.

We can't tie in to a great mortgage rate for 5 years then after 6 months move on without penalty

In a mortgage, you've effectively already had the service and are paying for it in arrears. Not the same thing.

Yes Japancool they have large fixed costs, therefore require a 12 month commitment from customers that's pretty easy to understand. What happens if 50% of customers decides to jack it in half way through the year

It's very simple - provide them a great service then they won't want to jack it in. They don't "require" a commitment, it's just a way of locking customers in.

 

[swankypants69]

Ha ha, buy an iPhone then get an easy in out contract in this instance is like saying buy your own treadmill!

The point with the mortgage is the "deal" you have committed to, the better rate offered due to the commitment you made

Why?



Because, as I pointed out above, iPhones are subsidised by the service provider. You can in fact get one on an easy in and out contract - just buy the hardware outright, and you can then get a monthly contract.



In a mortgage, you've effectively already had the service and are paying for it in arrears. Not the same thing.



It's very simple - provide them a great service then they won't want to jack it in. They don't "require" a commitment, it's just a way of locking customers in.

 

[japancool]

That's just simply not true and again, shows a complete lack of understanding of the industry. We are not "locking people in" - we are offering them a discount on the headline price in exchange for a commitment. Why is that so terrible? The overwhelming majority of our customers that choose the annual membership are very happy with the deal they get. Others prefer more flexibility and are happy to pay a bit extra for it.

Honestly, this conversation is just getting ridiculous.

Yes, you're locking people in. What exactly is it that I don't understand about your industry?

You aren't a gas or electricity supplier, where a customer commits gets a good rate based on a commitment, because even if a customer commits, the utility doesn't make money unless the customer uses the service. You make the money whether the customer shows up or not.

It's not like a magazine subscription, where the customer receives something physical. Whether the customer then reads the magazine or not, they've still got it, and it's an expense.

Put it this way - if a customer signs up with you for a 12 month contract and never once uses your gym, you've essentially had money for nothing. The fact that you've offered them a discount off your headline rate benefits you more than it does them and bears no relationship to your costs.

 

[Nord20]

It's very simple - provide them a great service then they won't want to jack it in. They don't "require" a commitment, it's just a way of locking customers in.

For the THIRD time, your assumption is completely false. We are only able to offer LOWER rates for a LONGER commitment. You don't have to take it, there are plenty of other options. But most people like being given the opportunity, once they have decided they do indeed like the service, to commit to the club for a better rate.

Honestly, what is so hard to understand here?

 

[japancool]

Ha ha, buy an iPhone then get an easy in out contract in this instance is like saying buy your own treadmill!

An iPhone is not a fixed cost for the supplier. It is a piece of hardware that they've paid for and are subsidising on your contract. If you want to draw an analogy, then you would have to compare it to renting an iPhone on a short term contract, and these do exist.

The point with the mortgage is the "deal" you have committed to, the better rate offered due to the commitment you made

No, that's not the point. You are paying for the money you have already borrowed. What have you borrowed from the gym that you are paying for?

 

[swankypants69]

And if you were renting an iPhone for a week I'm guessing a week would be proportionally more expensive than renting it for a year.........

 

[Nord20]

Yes, you're locking people in. What exactly is it that I don't understand about your industry?

You aren't a gas or electricity supplier, where a customer commits gets a good rate based on a commitment, because even if a customer commits, the utility doesn't make money unless the customer uses the service. You make the money whether the customer shows up or not.

It's not like a magazine subscription, where the customer receives something physical. Whether the customer then reads the magazine or not, they've still got it, and it's an expense.

Put it this way - if a customer signs up with you for a 12 month contract and never once uses your gym, you've essentially had money for nothing. The fact that you've offered them a discount off your headline rate benefits you more than it does them and bears no relationship to your costs.

People CHOOSE a longer membership if they want to, they don't have to by any means.

I can't be held responsible if you choose to sign a contract that is longer to get the best rate and then choose not to use it - you have to take some responsibility for your own actions.

Your analogy with the magazine is good - paying for a magazine you don't read (even though you physically have it) is just as useless as paying for any membership you don't use. You have to decide if it is appropriate for you or not.

Yes, if a customer signs up for 12 months and doesn't use the club, we still get the money. But that simply doesn't happen, and we have a high percentage of annual members who come to class at least five times a week, often daily.

With regards gas - that is why there is a standing charge, so yes, they do cover all their fixed costs with that and their variable costs are 99% related to the amount of gas you use. They still make a bit of money even if you use no gas at all.

Any other completely wrong assumptions you want to throw at me? I've only been doing this for ten years, so obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[japancool]

For the THIRD time, your assumption is completely false. We are only able to offer LOWER rates for a LONGER commitment.

And for about the fourth time, you still don't get it, do you? You're not incurring any extra costs. You're not out of pocket in the slightest. You've made less revenue off that person for the four months or whatever it was that they had, sure. But that's four months of revenue that you would not otherwise have had. How many times did this customer actually use your gym? Has she made you incur any extra costs?

And actually, you're not "only able to offer lower rates for a longer commitment". You could offer the same rate to everyone if you chose. That's your choice to do so. There is nothing stopping you from offering the same rate to everyone.

Tell me something, what's the difference in cost to you between someone paying a low rate to use your club vs someone who pays a higher rate? I suspect there is no difference to you whatsoever. So no, you're not "only able" to do anything.

You don't have to take it, there are plenty of other options. But most people like being given the opportunity, once they have decided they do indeed like the service, to commit to the club for a better rate.

Honestly, what is so hard to understand here?

What's hard to understand here is your insistence that you've somehow lost out, and the customer has "screwed you over".

 

[Nord20]

And for about the fourth time, you still don't get it, do you? You're not incurring any extra costs.

I have already explained why that is not true - we incur direct costs for each and every contract we create.

You've made less revenue off that person for the four months or whatever it was that they had, sure. But that's four months of revenue that you would not otherwise have had.

Again, not true - you are, again, making an assumption that had she not taken the annual membership, she would not have used the club at all, which is just not true. She actually used the club a lot in those four months.

How many times did this customer actually use your gym? Has she made you incur any extra costs

She came to exactly 66 classes. Yes, as already explained, she has incurred extra costs for us.

And actually, you're not "only able to offer lower rates for a longer commitment". You could offer the same rate to everyone if you chose. That's your choice to do so. There is nothing stopping you from offering the same rate to everyone.

Just a small thing called viability. Are you honestly suggesting you don't understand the principle behind bulk buying (which is essentially what this is)? Are you saying if someone came to you and said I want to buy hundreds of products from you, you wouldn't be able to offer them any kind of discount? Yes, we could offer the same rate to everyone, but it would be higher than the rate we offer to those prepared to commit for a year. This is a really basic business principle employed in every industry on the globe. Aside from you, obviously.

Tell me something, what's the difference in cost to you between someone paying a low rate to use your club vs someone who pays a higher rate? I suspect there is no difference to you whatsoever. So no, you're not "only able" to do anything.

The difference is 100 * 1 as opposed to 80 * 12. The 100 * 1 might or might not become a repeat customer. Having the knowledge that we can rely on someone dues coming in has value to us, so we offer a discount to secure that value.

For the customer, it's very much a case of the more you use it, the less it costs you each time. Nothing wrong with that.

Our revenue can vary massively across the year - as much as 50% from month to month (health is a very seasonal business). Being able to project that we will definitely have x coming in per month over the quiet periods is massively important. Any health club owner will tell you that the golden objective is to have memberships that cover your fixed costs. That way you know you can survive the down times. Non-member payments are sporadic, variable and completely unreliable, they fluctuate so much.

You can argue with me until you'r blue in the face, but it doesn't change the reality that I live with every single day. I am actually doing this, successfully, and have done so for quite some time now. What on earth makes you think you know better? Your huge experience in this field?

You're guessing, you're being ideological in an imperfect world. <rest removed>

Thanks very much for completely destroying my attempt at a light hearted stress busting vent.

 

[iksol]

Nord20.... you have more patience than me.

 

[Stuart Bailey]

the whole purpose of this forum is to help each other with their business, to act as mentors and also to have some light hearted relief.

Nord20 there have been other posts about how difficult clients can be and we have shared some funny stories. The problem here is that you have touched upon a raw subject about long term contracts for gym membership.

However as you rightly say the customer does have the option to sign up to a short term contract or long term contract and the customer should be aware of its contractual obligations.

 

[japancool]

I have already explained why that is not true - we incur direct costs for each and every contract we create.

I must have missed that. Perhaps you can point me to it.

Again, not true - you are, again, making an assumption that had she not taken the annual membership, she would not have used the club at all, which is just not true. She actually used the club a lot in those four months.

And you're making the assumption that she would have.

She came to exactly 66 classes. Yes, as already explained, she has incurred extra costs for us.

OK, that's fair enough. But the costs are only incurred when she uses your services. If she doesn't use it, you don't incur additional costs/

Just a small thing called viability. Are you honestly suggesting you don't understand the principle behind bulk buying (which is essentially what this is)? Are you saying if someone came to you and said I want to buy hundreds of products from you, you wouldn't be able to offer them any kind of discount? Yes, we could offer the same rate to everyone, but it would be higher than the rate we offer to those prepared to commit for a year. This is a really basic business principle employed in every industry on the globe. Aside from you, obviously.

Except that your product has no marginal costs if someone doesn't use it. You're trying to compare apples and oranges.

The difference is 100 * 1 as opposed to 80 * 12. The 100 * 1 might or might not become a repeat customer. Having the knowledge that we can rely on someone dues coming in has value to us, so we offer a discount to secure that value.

It has value to you, but you are still not out of pocket.

For the customer, it's very much a case of the more you use it, the less it costs you each time. Nothing wrong with that.

I didn't say there was.

Our revenue can vary massively across the year - as much as 50% from month to month (health is a very seasonal business). Being able to project that we will definitely have x coming in per month over the quiet periods is massively important. Any health club owner will tell you that the golden objective is to have memberships that cover your fixed costs. That way you know you can survive the down times. Non-member payments are sporadic, variable and completely unreliable, they fluctuate so much.

All businesses that don't have contractual income are in the same position. How other seasonal businesses with fixed costs like hotels manage it?

You can argue with me until you'r blue in the face, but it doesn't change the reality that I live with every single day. I am actually doing this, successfully, and have done so for quite some time now. What on earth makes you think you know better? Your huge experience in this field?

Right. How do you know you wouldn't do better if you changed your model? Just because you're doing what everyone else is doing, it doesn't mean it's the best way of doing it.

You're guessing, you're being ideological in an imperfect world <removed>.

The fact that you don't like what I say is your problem. Many customers would see it the same way I do. I'm not guessing at anything. Nothing you've said so far refutes anything I've said. Me being ideological? You're the one who's refusing to look at it from any other point of view.

Thanks very much for completely destroying my attempt at a light hearted stress busting vent.

You had my sympathy right up until the point that you moaned that you were "out of pocket", when you're nothing of the sort. As it so happens, that's the only thing I was pointing out, that that particular statement was completely unjustified. You may not agree with that. I'll bet many others would.

 

[Nord20]

Nord20.... you have more patience than me.

Thanks Iksol, I have small children, so I am used to these types of circular conversation!

I'll let Japancool have the last word, he obviously knows something that everyone who has tried to run my type of business has failed to see.

 

[japancool]

Thanks Iksol, I have small children, so I am used to these types of circular conversation!

I'll let Japancool have the last word, he obviously knows something that everyone who has tried to run my type of business has failed to see.

In other words, you can't actually refute anything I've said.

 

[Nord20]

Nord20 there have been other posts about how difficult clients can be and we have shared some funny stories. The problem here is that you have touched upon a raw subject about long term contracts for gym membership.

That's a fair point - it wasn't my intention to touch a nerve and I certainly won't be doing it again!

 

[Nord20]

In other words, you can't actually refute anything I've said.

<removed> I've already refuted everything you've said, and explained my reasoning, in quite some detail.

I know I'm right, if for no other reason than I've lived this, 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for over a decade. It's incredible tough running this type of business and I've seen many of my competitors fall by the wayside over the years, many of whom tried the model you are espousing. It simply does not work. I can't put it any plainer than that. If it did work, it would quickly become the norm.

 

[Faevilangel]

JC it's quite simple - the 'client' agreed to sign up for a 12 month contract paid monthly, that was her choice and for that she got a better rate than someone who went for 12 months but just paid per month with no contract. It was her choice and she agreed to pay 12 months of XX per month to the business.

Now she has decided she doesn't want that service no more but she has agreed to pay per month. The business is out of pocket as they have invested money into the client when she used their services, from staff doing her classes and helping her on the machines. Just because there is no physical product sent out doesn't mean the business can't suffer losses from the client.

I also hate companies that tie you into long contracts you can't get out of but the client chose the contract so you're argument is void, she had the choice on the type of membership she wanted.

IMHO if she had said "I don't want the contract no more," the business may have agreed to cancel the contract but when they right out lie about it, shows contempt for the business.

 

[cjd]

If you're offering a monthly 'no contract' deal and a discounted annual deal (amongst other things), that seems a pretty good model to me. So long as your customer was given all that info before sign-up, I think you're correct to be p1ssed with him/her for breaching it.

The joy of retail is that you get to meet so many @rseholes. It's funny how you can have thousands of reasonable customers but just one git can ruin your whole week. It always feels personal no matter how much you try to tell yourself to let it go.

 

[Nord20]

The joy of retail is that you get to meet so many @rseholes. It's funny how you can have thousands of reasonable customers but just one git can ruin your whole week. It always feels personal no matter how much you try to tell yourself to let it go.

You're so right - 99% of people are lovely, reasonable and a pleasure to deal with. But that 1%...I have to consciously take a step back and remind myself not to take it personally, when some oik is throwing every insult they can imagine at me.

 

[14Steve14]

I may not get this right, but if she is in breach of contract may be you should have posted this in the legal thread and got help that way, not that you were after help in the first place.

 

[Nord20]

If I thought it was worth pursuing her, I would, but as I said in the original OP, it's just not worth it - the hassle, expense and potential damage to our reputation means we really are at the mercy of people honouring the agreement they stuck to. Bit of a 'damned if we do, damned if we don't' situation.

 

[kelvin1950]

Never seen so many obtuse arguments as JC seems to be offering. The concept seems perfectly clear and reasonable to me.