Owed money by dead guy, help.

[S-Marketing]

Apologies for the title, I needed to get your attention.

Technically, i'm not owed money by a dead guy, but by a LTD Co. the sole director of which, died.

I am owed a reasonable chunk of money c £20,000 but am reasonably sure that the LTD Co. in question will have few assets. I'm told it hasn't been struck off or liquidated, but as far as I am aware it is no longer trading.

Any ideas?

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Have you checked to see if another director has been put in place ? You can do this via companies house or if you PM me the company name I'll do it for you.

Then send a final demand to the company for payment and then if they don't pay you, then lodge a winding up petition - https://www.gov.uk/wind-up-a-company-that-owes-you-money/overview

 

[Steve Sellers]

Do you know if there is a will and who the executor(s) is/are?

 

[S-Marketing]

Do you know if there is a will and who the executor(s) is/are?

I have no idea. I don't really know how to go about finding out either.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

I have no idea. I don't really know how to go about finding out either.

It there was and the company was passed to someone else then checking on companies house for any new directors should give you a clue.

 

[Young Recruit]

Apologies for the title, I needed to get your attention.

Technically, i'm not owed money by a dead guy, but by a LTD Co. the sole director of which, died.

I am owed a reasonable chunk of money c £20,000 but am reasonably sure that the LTD Co. in question will have few assets. I'm told it hasn't been struck off or liquidated, but as far as I am aware it is no longer trading.

Any ideas?

I have access to Ltd company information, I can check them out if you would wish.

JA

 

[Paul_Rosser]

You can use this site for free to see directors in a limited company - http://companycheck.co.uk/

Don't know how far behind companies house the information is though.

 

[Young Recruit]

You can use this site for free to see directors in a limited company - http://companycheck.co.uk/

Don't know how far behind companies house the information is though.

They only give limited information unless you pay extra.

JA

 

[Paul_Rosser]

All the OP needs to know is if a new director has been added to the company.

https://www.duedil.com/ gives you the accounts etc, but it can be a bit behind Companies House, personally I use companysearchesmadesimple as they only charge £200 a year for unlimited lookups and give the same data as CH, Creditsafe etc and are only a few days behind Companies House.

 

[Tej]

Don't understand...

Money is owed by the Ltd Company.. what has the directors ( dead or alive) got to do with it?

am I misinformed?

 

[Steve Sellers]

I have no idea. I don't really know how to go about finding out either.

His power as a director will become vested in his personal representatives. Your first step should be to write to the company address, and if you find out the name of the executor to them asking for payment.

Given the fact the executor(s) will need to wind up a limited company they will probably have applied for probate - so check with the local probate office of the deceased.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Don't understand...

Money is owed by the Ltd Company.. what has the directors ( dead or alive) got to do with it?

am I misinformed?

A limited company must have at least one director in order for it to operate.

So if another director has not been added to the company then it should be wound up or struck off.

As I mentioned in my original post the easiest way to sort this would be to issue a final demand to the company and then if they don't reply within 21 days you can file a winding up petition, which would lead to a winding up order where the company is wound up and provided there are assets the OP would get their money.

If however another director has been added to the company they may decide to pay the money either when the final demand arrives or when the winding up petition is put in.

 

[S-Marketing]

Don't understand...

Money is owed by the Ltd Company.. what has the directors ( dead or alive) got to do with it?

am I misinformed?

Although it is a LTD company, the guy was acting on his own with no other directors. The guy was my only point of contact with the company. Now he is dead, my calls and e-mails are not answered, and his business has essentially died with him. Obviously the company is technically a separate legal entity, but without a human being acting on its behalf i'm a bit stumped.

Thanks to those who have provided links and info. I will get onto companies house to see what I can find out with regards to a new director.

 

[Young Recruit]

All the OP needs to know is if a new director has been added to the company.

https://www.duedil.com/ gives you the accounts etc, but it can be a bit behind Companies House, personally I use companysearchesmadesimple as they only charge £200 a year for unlimited lookups and give the same data as CH, Creditsafe etc and are only a few days behind Companies House.

looks interesting.

I use Keynote, they apparently update information from Companies House everyday.

They provide company information, market reports, market research and help to build direct marketing sales lists.

JA

 

[Paul_Rosser]

looks interesting.

I use Keynote, they apparently update information from companies house everyday.

They provide company information, market reports, market research and help to build direct marketing sales lists.

JA

Not sure the daily updates bit is quite true as even the bigger players (Creditsafe, Experian etc) all take between 2 and 5 days to update.

Creditsafe do a similar product called MarketSafe, the data these services use is all the same they just write applications which use the data in different ways.

It used to cost a lot for these services but as more players enter the market they are getting a lot cheaper and even free in some cases, the firms who find new ways to use this data such as for marketing etc. will carry on charging a premium though.

 

[Young Recruit]

Not sure the daily updates bit is quite true as even the bigger players (Creditsafe, Experian etc) all take between 2 and 5 days to update.

Creditsafe do a similar product called MarketSafe, the data these services use is all the same they just write applications which use the data in different ways.

It used to cost a lot for these services but as more players enter the market they are getting a lot cheaper and even free in some cases, the firms who find new ways to use this data such as for marketing etc. will carry on charging a premium though.

It's not quite all the same information but I have no doubt they share information, in fact I have seen the same information on different providers platforms.

JA

 

[Homshaw]

It is a separate legal entity and there is no guarantee you will get your money

However if you contact the executors they may be decent honest people who feel they want to settle his debts even if protected by a veil of incorporacy

I would plan on the money being lost and if you recover it - Happy Days

 

[Paul_Rosser]

It's not quite all the same information but I have no doubt they share information, in fact I have seen the same information on different providers platforms.

JA

Sorry meant the original Companies House data is all the same, then firms add marketing, credit scores etc from other sources.

 

[businessfunding]

You say your calls are unanswered, does the phone just ring out or go to answer?

What was the nature of the marketing activity? If the company no longer operates is there an opportunity to divert resultant calls and earn from them?

 

[S-Marketing]

You say your calls are unanswered, does the phone just ring out or go to answer?

What was the nature of the marketing activity? If the company no longer operates is there an opportunity to divert resultant calls and earn from them?

Sorry for the delay in reply. The phone just rings out.

Unfortunately, it wasn't marketing consultancy or activity I am owed for. Its for work done by one of my proper businesses.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Unfortunately, it wasn't marketing consultancy or activity I am owed for. Its for work done by one of my proper businesses.

Are you suggesting that marketing isn't a proper business?!

Sorry couldn't resist picking you up on that one.

*hides behind briefcase as onslaught by meerkating folks begins

 

[S-Marketing]

Are you suggesting that marketing isn't a proper business?!

Sorry couldn't resist picking you up on that one.

*hides behind briefcase as onslaught by meerkating folks begins

I'm perfectly happy to admit that marketing consultancy isn't a proper business.

I would also point out that IMO, any marketing consultant who doesn't also own 'proper businesses', and whose advice is purely based on academic study and experience as an employee is probably not worth listening to.

Thanks for your info in this thead by the way, its been useful.

 

[Steve Sellers]

I would also point out that IMO, any marketing consultant who doesn't also own 'proper businesses', and whose advice is purely based on academic study and experience as an employee is probably not worth listening to.

You have just described my other half! Ssshuuuuuussshhh!

 

[S-Marketing]

You have just described my other half! Ssshuuuuuussshhh!

That's ok, you wouldn't take advice from the Mrs anyway would you.

Marketing employees have their place, its in an organisation that needs marketing employees. What they shouldn't do is decide to be self employed consultants for small businesses, as the skills and knowledge required are very different.

In larger organisations the actual marketing decisions are made by the directors. The marketing department just do the donkey work. In a small business every single decision is a marketing decision, and those who have worked in organisations in a marketing role are not well placed to help with these.

I already owned a small business by the time I studied marketing at University. One of the lecturers used to be the marketing director for a high street bank. I already knew a lot more than he did about marketing a small business, which kind of demonstrates my point.

As I inadvertently insulted your other half in my previous post I thought I should expand on my thoughts a bit to explain my point.

 

[bizrep103]

Speak to the businesses accountant, again this information is very easy to get hold of simply goto companies house and download last accounts. I think sending winding up orders ect when the families estate are possibly still in shock is very insensitive and there are smarter ways to tackle the situation that results in you getting paid or at least something back.
There is an old saying that goes like this "it is far easier to get someone to take off their coat when the sun is shining"

 

[Alan R Price]

His power as a director will become vested in his personal representatives.

Are you certain, Steve? I have to say that I haven't had to deal with the situation but I believe the office of director is personal and would not pass to the personal representatives. I don't say I'm right but it seems logical. I seem to remember there is something in the Companies Act 2006 that permits personal rep's to appoint a new director if provided for in the articles of association.

The deceased's shares would certainly vest in his estate however the personal rep's could not use them to vote in another director because the requisite company meeting has to be called by a director.

As regards OP's rights, these are undoubtedly against the company and do not alter as a result of the death of its sole director.

 

[Steve Sellers]

I over simplified it. As a sole director/shareholder the rights as a shareholder would pass - to appoint a director to then wrap up the company and pay any debts.

If the will contains direct provisions for the running of the company then this could limit those powers and give direct powers as if they were directors.

In the event of no will then executors would have the responsibility to wrap up the business within 1 year, this would include paying any debts of the company..

 

[Alan R Price]

In the event of no will then executors would have the responsibility to wrap up the business within 1 year, this would include paying any debts of the company..

A company is a separate legal entity and quite distinct from its directors, so I am not sure the executors have any rights or duties in relation to it. I believe the executors, as shareholders, can apply to court for the appointment of a director if there is no provision in the articles for them to appoint one. His/her role would be the same as any director's - to safeguard the company and its assets for the benefit of its stakeholders. This might well include appointing new management to run the business, or selling the business as a going concern.

If there were doubts about the company's solvency the executors, as shareholders, could also appoint an administrator or petition for liquidation.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Alan I am not sure what you are getting at. I know a company is a separate legal identity but I am talking about the executors powers and duties to realise the money in that company like any other asset.