Overheard 3 SEO guys in a bar!

[mountrecruitment]

...It was a fascinating conversation!

Im not one for listening to others but we were practically sitting back to back and they werent exactly quiet!

Anyway which one is right?

SEO 1. He said had hardly changed the way he worked since started years ago and that as long as you didnt do it all in one go then Directories, Article sites, "tweaked" duplicate content, link wheels and buying links "from his contacts" all worked fine as long as "you throw in fresh content" "tweet a bit" and drop in a high DA link every now and then.

SEO 2. Said he had always tried to stay the right side of google guidelines but had "used the usual shortcuts back in the day". These days in was more work and SEO 1 was pushing it now as Google was getting smarter. They argued over value of directories etc (this got tedious).

SEO 3. He was a younger guy, i think he was fascinated by this but his methods were self taught over last few years. He seemed to be very in to Social Media, pinterest etc, but i missed a lot of what he had to say (although seemed most interesting!) as SEO 1 kept interrupting. Think he was trying to learn few new tricks!

Anyway, i wanted to grill them but instead i left and got on with my evening.

Very curious what you all have to say though, i love seeing the debates you all here!

 

[fisicx]

SEO1 is full of BS. SEO2 hasn't got a clue. SEO3 isn't going to acheive anytihng.

 

[DazRave]

SEO should be hand in hand with a well built website with strong content.

In my opinion hiring someone to do SEO is a bit like hiring a handyman to fix the things your builder forgot to do.

 

[mountrecruitment]

SEO1 is full of BS. SEO2 hasn't got a clue. SEO3 isn't going to acheive anytihng.

Ha! I did wonder if a reply like that would come from you fisicx!

 

[StevePoster]

For SEO 1 - two words for him "Link Schemes"
For SEO 2 - there is no such thing as shortcut in SEO and again "Directories?"
For SEO 3 - Social Media is a great way to be one of the best medium to reach your targeted audience but it will depend if the sharing is interesting or engaging to the users.

 

[fisicx]

For SEO 3 - Social Media is a great way to be one of the best medium to reach your targeted audience but it will depend if the sharing is interesting or engaging to the users.

But as a ranking strategy it's pants - it's not SEO

 

[Annoying Donkey]

SEO should be hand in hand with a well built website with strong content.

In my opinion hiring someone to do SEO is a bit like hiring a handyman to fix the things your builder forgot to do.

Only if you hired the builder without first consulting an architect...!

Web developers are graphic designers, not search engine specialists.

 

[zigojacko]

SEO1 is full of BS. SEO2 hasn't got a clue. SEO3 isn't going to acheive anytihng.

^ This.

Took the words out of my mouth...

 

[zigojacko]

Web developers are graphic designers, not search engine specialists.

Not always true. I know some great web developers that know how search engines work very well and can develop websites built to perform in search. Some of the biggest names in the digital marketing field are also developers too.

 

[DazRave]

Only if you hired the builder without first consulting an architect...!

Web developers are graphic designers, not search engine specialists.

Not true at all, I agree with @zigojacko here.

Graphic/Web Designer is a Graphic/Web Designer.
Front End Developer, uses languages such as HTML5, CSS3, JQuery etc.
Back End Developer, uses thing's like .NET, PHP5, MVC Frameworks etc.
Solution Architect, is the guy who designs and probably creates the database driven website.

SEO Expert.... nowadays, doesn't really fit into the mix since google try their hardest to rank sites on how the Developers have created them.

So in regards to your statement, a "web developer" is someone who probably knows a bit of graphic design, but mainly back end or/and front end web development.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Not always true. I know some great web developers that know how search engines work very well and can develop websites built to perform in search. Some of the biggest names in the digital marketing field are also developers too.

I meant web designer. But applies to web developers to.
In my previous life as a computer consultant I worked with plenty of web developers... and even got my hands dirty with coding
A solution architect should have good SEO knowledge, or at least input from someone who does, but more often than not doesn't. Look at any course on .net web programming and you'll never see a reference to SEO or search engines.

 

[UKSBD]

1.Will work but is a gamble, if he's been doing it long enough he will know how prepared he is to gamble (Any clients he has should always be made aware it is a gamble)

2. Is dependent on the subject of the site and the content provided by the site owner

3. May get more traffic, but most will be wasted traffic.
If he knows what he is doing though it may improve his network, but again is site subject specific.

 

[ronnie7272]

SEO1 is full of BS. SEO2 hasn't got a clue. SEO3 isn't going to acheive anytihng.

That summarises 95% of the SEO industry.

 

[tombuckland]

Social Signals are not a ranking factor and they never will be, because that would mean Google relinquishing some of the control and they don't like doing that! More at: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/arti...-social-signals-are-not-an-seo-ranking-factor

 

[sirearl]

Well I would say No 1 is closest,much of the SEO community seems rather busy trying to scare the...out of people.

Google is not that clever,it also does not give a toss about SEO.

 

[sisindia]

The basic criteria for good SEO learner is he/she must have good analytical powers and ability to build perfect strategy for current trends and search engine algorithms. SEO 3 was young but he was just following the other marketers. But that's sure just following others may not suitable for your kind of project. Only unique strategy can lead you to the top.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Directories, Article sites, "tweaked" duplicate content, link wheels and buying links "from his contacts"

2009 called. It wants its SEO techniques back.

 

[altonroot]

I don't want to put any word in this scenario but I have my own understanding. There are one who knows everything in SEO and they got knowledge through reading blogs and etc. Those are good while talking but when it comes to real world implementation. In many cases such SEOs not able to produce result. There are second category who have limited knowledge of link building but they are able to produce the result for small businesses. And at last there are third one who add techniques to their knowledge and implement it through their own thinking and produce fantastic result. Obviously third one are best but costly. But when you have to choose between first and second you should be more careful. You should find SEOs who are in second category but moving towards third category instead of first who just knows the SEO terms in definition but don't know how to put it in real life.

 

[tombuckland]

2009 called. It wants its SEO techniques back.

Lol, might do a tester site soon only buying links to dispel the myth that buying links doesn't work..... Because it does! But articles and that yeah jog on!

 

[capitalvirtual]

Google wants to see brands, and it uses factors such as social mentions, authority links, news and now local citations for building a picture of your business. On page seo is also very important.

 

[sirearl]

Only unique strategy can lead you to the top.

Rubbish,the right strategy takes one to the top,nothing unique about it.

 

[jamesosix]

These are the basic stats from a site I own. With this site I do not cater to Google. That is, I just do what I want to do. I do image tags, proper file names, correct h1s etc etc but not for Google, but just as basic seo practice. Now, organic search (which is 99% from Google) is clearly my biggest traffic stream vs say social media.

Now, my site has 3 social media channels (fb, twitter and StumbleUpon) and I use them as a big part of my sites online presence. Yet, the quality of social traffic is better as it has the lowest bounce rate, most pages per session and average visitor duration.

Says a lot about not catering to Google's every whim and algorithm change!

 

[neils3]

1.Will work but is a gamble, if he's been doing it long enough he will know how prepared he is to gamble (Any clients he has should always be made aware it is a gamble)

2. Is dependent on the subject of the site and the content provided by the site owner

3. May get more traffic, but most will be wasted traffic.
If he knows what he is doing though it may improve his network, but again is site subject specific.

I agree.

There are still techniques to ranking a website in search engines, many marketing agencies and marketeers do this day in, day out and it still works. It's a variation of what you describe in point 1 but essentially the concept is on point.

Any clients that go down this road should definitely be aware of the risks. These techniques can rank a website very quickly but at the same time can drop as quickly. The skill of the person doing SEO is critical here.

My appetite to risking a site I really care about is very low and is basically why I prefer going down the long road. Plus, it just feels a lot better doing it the right way.

In my view, SEO is about creating a website that's worth visiting and working hard to tell other people about it.

 

[avecSys]

I would consider myself the SEO 3 guy. I would laugh at all the naysayers. I taught myself SEO on the social media and link building process. Our website after 3 months currently sits in position 3 on Google for our keyword search and 3 months ago you were lucky to find us on page 19 haha

 

[UKSBD]

Our website after 3 months currently sits in position 3 on Google for our keyword search and 3 months ago you were lucky to find us on page 19 haha

That's the big difference.

When it is your own business or own website the social networking aspect is far greater.

If it is an SEO doing SEO work for other people it should still preferably be the site owner doing the social networking.

 

[avecSys]

I totally agree. I think SEO work should be carried out on behalf of a customer, but I also encourage people selling SEO to teach, rather than take over.

 

[UKSBD]

This may sound strange but,

A good SEO is a good SEO because he is a good SEO

What this means is;

A good SEO will work on a good site with other good people.

The site ranks high because of a combination of the good SEO, the good developers, the good content writers, the good products, the good social team, the good name of the business, etc.

Because the site then ranks high the SEO is seen as good and the cycle continues.

It's far easier to optimise a silk purse than a sows ear (and it's far easier to optimise with the right tools to hand).

A lot about being a good SEO is about the fact they got in to SEO at the right time ;-)

Note: when I use the term SEO, I don't particularly mean individual but SEO company.

 

[avecSys]

Nice breakdown!

I just completely took over our website from the MD and knew absolutely nothing. 3 months later we are sitting pretty, with only an hour or so took out of each day. I wasn't about to let the company spend about 300 a month for someone to do it

 

[fisicx]

I taught myself SEO on the social media and link building process.

The social media won't have helped your ranking. Link building may have helped but I siuspect you are seeing good results because you are logged into Google.

A search for 'it support bedford' doesn't have you at #3. They may not be keywords you are targeting but it's the ones your homepage is sort of optimised for.

 

[avecSys]

Using social media helps your link building process. My homepage is not at position 3, my optimised page is in position 3. My homepage (built by DM) doesn't have headers or main content because of how he wished it to look..... (referencing people saying about doing SEO for pages you haven't built) So I optimised a landing page for IT support Bedford, which comfortably sits in position 3. I don't know whether this is because you are not in the area or not, but I assure you we are in position 3. Every Monday I am climbing 1 position, but I don't think I will get any higher as the one above me are well established and our main competition. Hopefully I can get to the top, but SEO is a very slow process

 

[UKSBD]

Showing as number 3 here.
(with location set as UK)

 

[sirearl]

For "IT support Bedford" I have you at No 1.

Unfortunately a low search term.

 

[avecSys]

Unfortunate indeed. Not much keyword investigation was done when I started which was a mistake, but I knew nothing 3 months ago

 

[Deleted member 237685]

The social media won't have helped your ranking.

I've increased a site's ranking using only Social Media.

 

[Deleted member 237685]

my optimised page is in position 3

You are indeed at 3 for me here in London, and if I set my location to Bedford, you're number 1 for "IT support"!

 

[avecSys]

Evidence that it pays to teach yourself rather than pay. I guess Fisicx must be doing something wrong

 

[fisicx]

I've increased a site's ranking using only Social Media.

How can you be sure of this? It could be all sorts of other ranking signals that have boosted your ranking. It could well be a tweak you have made to the site or something someone has sharded on a non-SM site that has helped your ranking. An adjustment to a page title will have a far greater ranking boost than any number of SM posts/tweets/comments.

I've just checked again and still can't see the site on page one for 'IT services bedford'. But as Earl says it a very low search term.

SEO is combination of factors, all 3 of the SEO guys in the bar are right and wrong. It depends on the site, the competiton, the marketing mix, the taget customer etc.

avecSYs could boost their ranking in a few hours if the did a bit of on-site optimisation, they wouldn't need to do and link building or SM work.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

People argue about which is king, on site or backlinks, but the reality is (as I wrote in an artivle 8 years ago) the REAL King, Queen & Holy grail, is keyword research. get that wrong and everything else is wasted.

 

[avecSys]

Link building will fundamentally improve your sites authority, as well as clicks and traffic. Social media and interaction will build interest, which will inevitably lead you to more traffic. Now I haven't touched a word on that page since I created it and it stood on page 19, but what I have done is spread it on social media and been link building which will give it the boost it needs.

Now having read one of your blogs you have explained that social media cannot bring you new business or is not a preferred tactic. Well I have secured at least 3 new contracts for IT support using Facebook alone, not to mention the amount of business I have procured from references from Linkedin etc. Are you against social media business tactics?

 

[fisicx]

Well I have secured at least 3 new contracts for IT support using Facebook alone

Well done. But how did these people find you on facebook?

My article stressed that new business via SM comes from what others are saying about you not what you say about yourself.