Off Putting Pub Regulars

[PubManager]

Hi,

If anyone has any advice I'd be very grateful.

I've just taken over as the general manager of a privately owned pub. The owners want to turn the place around, attract a young, trendy crowd etc, but they keep procrastinating, and I think if we do it half hearted it won't work.

The major problem is the current regulars, who huddle round the bar like bears guarding their den, are rowdy and violent and generally create an unpleasant atmosphere that is incredibly off putting to new customers. They're nearly all related in some way and have been coming there for years, they're really possessive about the place and they are demanding and intimidating.

The owners have never tackled this problem because they are, understandably, nervous. They are older women so they are afraid of standing up to louts and they also fear that if they lose their regulars they will have no customers left at all.

I want to completely revamp, change the decor, menu, music, get rid of football, bar stools etc and institute a dress and behaviour code. However I'm struggling to convince the owners as they are too afraid to do anything to upset the regulars.

So, I'd really love to hear anyone's advice, both about how to reassure the owners and help them to change, and practically about how to get rid of these unpleasant regulars.

Thanks in advance

 

[Posilan]

Are these the same "unwelcome" regulars that have paid the bills and wages for the last few years

I'd be very careful that it doesn't backfire. There are a lot of pubs closing down these days. What will happen if you get rid of the regulars and don't attract the type of clientele you hope for?

Steve

 

[PubManager]

I know, but the problem is that these people alone do not bring in enough money for the pub to keep going, and with them there no one else will come inside.
I really think the pub has excellent potential, its in a great area, perfect location and there are plenty of people living locally who would be great customers to attract.
Its less about attracting the ideal customer than it is about making the place welcoming for all, rather than a private club for obnoxious people!

 

[Posilan]

In that case, as long as you are sure you can attract the right kind of punter, go ahead with the changes. If the pub isn't making a profit as it is, you have little to lose.

Chances are it may put off these regulars anyway if the changes are big enough.

Incidentally, have you tried approaching these regulars about the issues you have? If they are breaking the rules, kick them out. If they arn't, maybe you need to look at the rules?

Steve

 

[PubManager]

Thanks, yes I really think that if we change the place enough it will put them off, I just need to convince the owners.

The owners are very hands on and I think they're a bit torn between wanting to give me the power to help them and feeling that they're giving up control of their baby.

We'll bar a customer one week for being violent or abusive, then the owners will let them back in the next week because they can't stand up to them. Its very inconsistent, the customers don't understand who's barred when and why!

Most of the problems with these customers would break the rules anywhere - harrassment of female customers, being abusive to staff, starting fights etc.
I've tried to bring in rules for the more subjective things (dresscode etc), as have the bouncers, but the owners will just ignore them depending on what mood they're in.

I really want to help the owners, they're lovely people, they make no profit at all and they brought me in specifically to help them, but they're so resistant to change and they are clearly finding it difficult to give up the reins.

Do you think I should just say to them, look, you brought me in here to help you but in order for me to do that you need to take a step back and let me institute some changes? I don't want to push them, but I also feel like I owe it to them to help them.
They want to redecorate but I'm really worried they're just going to spend all their money without tackling the real issues and end up in an even worse position.

Thanks so much for all of your advice

 

[Billmccallum]

Hi,

If anyone has any advice I'd be very grateful.

I've just taken over as the general manager of a privately owned pub. The owners want to turn the place around, attract a young, trendy crowd etc, but they keep procrastinating, and I think if we do it half hearted it won't work.

The major problem is the current regulars, who huddle round the bar like bears guarding their den, are rowdy and violent and generally create an unpleasant atmosphere that is incredibly off putting to new customers. They're nearly all related in some way and have been coming there for years, they're really possessive about the place and they are demanding and intimidating.

The owners have never tackled this problem because they are, understandably, nervous. They are older women so they are afraid of standing up to louts and they also fear that if they lose their regulars they will have no customers left at all.

I want to completely revamp, change the decor, menu, music, get rid of football, bar stools etc and institute a dress and behaviour code. However I'm struggling to convince the owners as they are too afraid to do anything to upset the regulars.

So, I'd really love to hear anyone's advice, both about how to reassure the owners and help them to change, and practically about how to get rid of these unpleasant regulars.

Thanks in advance

If you are the new general manager, manage the situation in the way you want, that's what you get paid for.....I dont mean that in any form of critical sense, it's something I hear quite often in the charity sector "I want to do ****, but not sure if the trustees/chairman/regional manager (or whatever) would like it".

I am of the strongest opinion that if someone employs me to manage a business or project, I will manage it in the way that I see fit in order to achieve the objectives of the organisation.

It would be pointless you being General Manager if the owners come up and say "oh no, you cant do that".

 

[Vending Siting Services]

I agree with Bill on this one.

If changes need to be made then make them. Close the pub down for a re-vamp, get new menues/ideas marketed ..... I am sure the rabble will not feel comfortable in a well managed environment. You have nothing to lose, change or eventually the pub may have to close if it is not making enough money. Business is about making money not losing it.

Good luck.

 

[PubManager]

Yes, you're right, I need to just institute the changes and keep reminding the owners not to bend the rules. They haven't had a manager before so I think they've just got to learn to let go a bit.
I'm feeling a lot clearer about the situation now, thank you everyone!

 

[Deleted member 138423]

Are you someone who has a good deal of experience within the pub industry? If you don't, then my suggestion is that you find another job, perhaps within the pub industry still, but somewhere else! Why you will ask, and I shall answer thus; To change a pub that is 'run' by the regulars is taking on something that is both incredibly difficult and dangerous. If you have a good deal of experience, then I feel that you would not have asked for the advice. This in my opinion is a problem that you should walk away from!

 

[mobile-web-guy]

I would just up the prices of the drinks for a few weeks until they find a cheaper alternative.

You always hear regular drinkers talking about how pricy/cheap certain pubs are.

Pretty sure they wilk leave if you are hurting their pocket!

Sent from my GT-S5830 using UK Business Forums

 

[Newmedia]

You don't need to say exactly but roughly where about in the country is this pub?

 

[patientlady]

Are you someone who has a good deal of experience within the pub industry? If you don't, then my suggestion is that you find another job, perhaps within the pub industry still, but somewhere else! Why you will ask, and I shall answer thus; To change a pub that is 'run' by the regulars is taking on something that is both incredibly difficult and dangerous. If you have a good deal of experience, then I feel that you would not have asked for the advice. This in my opinion is a problem that you should walk away from!

Took the words from my mouth
Sorry Pubmanager but as Nick says walk away! Pointless spending any effort on this one. These ladies have got you in, to use you, rather than turn there business around. They will most certainly be struggling to pay the next quarters rent and vat return, which in turn means your wages at the end of the week. ( i hope your being paid weekly)
You are right these regulars will be putting off others, but the rest of the town will know this and you cannot change this overnight with the marketing budget I supect you do not have!
Closure and a clean sweep will only change a reputation of a pub and even that will not always work. sorry

 

[businessfunding]

I agree with those posters who suggest that you are being handed the worst of all worlds - lots of responsibility with no authority - the very opposite of professional delegation.

Mobile-web-guy also raises a valid point that you can manage your customer base through pricing. It is entirely possible to mix mildly boisterous regulars with nice diners in a well managed environment

In all, however you have been given a roll of sellotape and some sticking plaster to rebuild a wreck - it isn't enough..

 

[Paul_Rosser]

As Bill said the first thing you need is to explain to the owners that as the manager you will be making some changes and you don't expect them to undermine you, if they can't offer this then resign as you are fighting a loosing battle.

If you get the backing of the owners ensure that the rules are obeyed and work a yellow/red card system where anyone found breaking them is first barred for a week and then barred forever.

The regulars will either all get themselves barred or will behave meaning you keep their revenue.

 

[patientlady]

As Bill said the first thing you need is to explain to the owners that as the manager you will be making some changes and you don't expect them to undermine you, if they can't offer this then resign as you are fighting a loosing battle.

If you get the backing of the owners ensure that the rules are obeyed and work a yellow/red card system where anyone found breaking them is first barred for a week and then barred forever.

The regulars will either all get themselves barred or will behave meaning you keep their revenue.

Paul I hope it will be that easy! Unfortunately there will have been a generation or more of these individuals propping up the bar stool and even if they do leave like kittens the reputation stays. Pubmanager will need 100% backing from the owners and I suspect in the background he will not get it. As said they will at best only have 3 months to get this right before the next rental and vat bills are due! There are no wet led pubs in the land that have money in the bank to ride a half empty pub while changes are made.

 

[mhall]

It's the owners' money you are playing with, they are bound to be concerned, but if they weren't prepared to give you the authority to make the changes, they should never have employed you. As it would appear they don't trust you with their livelihood then you may as well walk away. I don't think you can win with this one other than keep taking their money and make no changes. It's time for them to put up or shut up, and it's time for you to prove your worth - or finish off destroying a business and three lives !

 

[a4nthony]

I agree with other posters who say if you've been given the responsibility then even use it or leave and move on, its pointless being bought in to do something and then not doing it.

I suspect that with respect, you don't have the experience otherwise not only would you know what to do but you wouldn't be asking. Don't take this as an insult but just merely an observation.

Revamping and redecorating on its own will change nothing, as someone else said, prices will need to change but then you can't really put the prices up just on their own. I have seen large breweries spent £,000's on revamps, and a week after the same old regulars are back in there.

Will they be put off because there is a fresh coat of paint on the walls ? I don't think so, all your doing is improving things for them.

The only way you can change it, is by major investment to change the entire theme, style, ambience and pricing, which may include involving architects, experts etc otherwise it will always be what it is.

Do the owners have this sort of money ?

 

[Berkshire Business]

I agree with what's been said above. If you can get the new customers and are sure that its best for the pub why not? You may also find with a new environment that the regulars may not want adjust to the change and move on. If your not loosing out then its a good idea to start making the business better. Good luck!

 

[luckyj]

Is their the option to rebrand the pub? In essence you could rebrand as a bar etc. Is their the option for food? Bar and Grill etc.

This will help keep away the "Pub" people especially if you completely change pricing strategies and drinks offered. If your regulars drink john smiths, stop serving it and change for something exotic instead.

 

[Anonymouse72]

PubManager hasn't posted again, do you think the locals have locked him in the cellar?!

 

[Deleted member 61074]

I have just walked away from a job where I was brought in to help turn the business around with a view of potentially investing. I hit the same issues, all my analysis and subsequent suggestions were sidelined in favour of sticking with the tried and tested.

The business owner was too scared to move the business on for fear new ideas didnt work and nothing I could say would change her mind even though that was why she called me in.

 

[PrestonLad]

PubManager hasn't posted again, do you think the locals have locked him in the cellar?!

Or maybe he didn't like the advice to give up his livelihood.

To be fair to PubManager, in his OP, he says "I want to completely revamp, change the decor, menu, music, get rid of football, bar stools etc and institute a dress and behaviour code." But quite a few posters here are interpretting this as little more than 'just a lick of paint'. And some are just supposing that there is not enough money to rebrand.

Maybe PubManager should consider his/her position... but if he/she can secure the investment and authority to actually implement changes like the ones listed - and perhaps the pricing idea and others, then it will be offputting to the problem regulars. They'll spit and swear and curse at how the pub has been "ruined" ("this decor is ponsy, crap music, no football... and how the hell can you have pub with no bar stools?")

If the pub can be rebranded. Then why not? The OP is confident that it's in a good catchment area.

Another key question is... where are these problem regulars likely to go? If there's another "drinker's pub" they can obviously migrate to, then great. If there aren't any alternatives, then it will make the job more difficult.

 

[Talay]

A long time ago a partner and I took over a pub in a small Wiltshire town. The locals ran the place, even so far as pouring their own beer ! There were regular violent episodes.

We brought in the police; they actually sent someone in seniority in those days, and told them what we were going to do.

We put up CCTV, which was onto tapes in those days, revamped the place and barred everyone from behind the bar. Day 1, it kicked off. Day 1 plus 5 minutes, we'd kicked out a load of bikers without a broken glass.

Over the next couple of weeks, some bad apples returned and a few were turfed out. Mr Plod was invited to attend a few times. Nothing more than a broken window in total.

The fact is that we demonstrated very strong management from the beginning. No wavering, no debate. Simple new rules and a like it or lump it resolve.

Over 6 months, we had many new customers who said they stopped going in years ago because of the unsavoury elements previous exercising control over the bar. I think the OP would find the same and in all honesty, some of the current brigade may well turn over a new leaf.

 

[iArtist]

Pub regulars see themselves much the same way as taxpayers who expect a good NHS service do. By this I mean they consider that as they have funded and invested their time etc. in the service they expect it to operate to satisfy their needs.
" I pay your wages " attitude.

Take away their investment and they won't be happy. They won't go without a fight. They go not just for the booze but to catch up with their fellow drinking regulars. Their social life will be disrupted by this change. The question is ... What impact their discontent may have on the business? If THEY can be managed away from the pub, persuaded somehow to prefer an alternative venue without angering them into it that would be preferable.

A dress code might be the easiest way to encourage a desire to shop for a new boozer and that's a change that costs Nowt.

 

[tony84]

Have a closing party - this might get a few more people in for the last night - and a bit of extra money.

Close for a couple of days, a lick of paint, maybe a carpet clean.
Some flyers advertising its now family friendly/food orientated/whatever the case may be and then open up the following weekend?

Maybe have a bouncy castle/BBQ/DJ or have a 50% off carvery/food for that weekend.

From experience i know a few thousand goes nowhere really and can be eaten up if the pub is big.

Ultimately you/the owners need to decide on what you want to do and what direction you want to go in, then come up with a plan to do it. However, having owned a pub when the smoking ban came in, we had a load of customers come out of the woodwork for about 2 weeks then they died off. We lost existing customers and didnt really gain any new long term customers.

Just make sure you make the most of whatever it you do to get people in when you do relaunch and dont lose the new customers.

 

[Matt1959]

depends how the regulars fit in with the pub generally. There are some who reflect what the pub is about and there are some who are cliquey. The latter are of almost no use. The former can carry some weight. Sorry I do agree with the comments re. a managers experience - one who is experienced , would have less problem with dealing with this......

 

[Sherlock Homeless]

Power controls power, pubmanager and if you're on here asking you evidently don't have the type that I'm talking about. The type that these folk will respect and listen to. One more thing, I've seen people try rebranding shitholes like this before and 85% of the time it doesn't work - know why? The old reputation hangs around longer than a drunks fart and the time in between takes a lot of money to cover.

 

[businessfunding]

The core question was regarding the authority given to the OP to actually take control of the pub; the consensus opinion is unanimous that he either has control or he doesn't.

The whole rebranding thing is academic and how / whether it will work will actually depend on a number of factors including location, style of pub, layout, wealth of the area etc. With respect no-one can really constructively comment without that knowledge.

So, OP, are you the boss?

 

[Stuart Bailey]

the normal way to deal with it is to hike the prices up.

 

[ClubberLang]

I would second the suggestion of a 'closing down' and re-opening so it looks like it is under new ownership may be - better than slowly killing it off with higher prices.

I would second fears about competing for customers - everyone wants their pub to be trendy these days so not sure there is a lack of competition.

 

[David A]

Maybe the OP didn't like the responses to his problem.

He hasn't been active (logged in) since the end of March!

 

[beasty]

This is the exact same deal as a pal of mine faced around 2.5 years ago, the pub was on the border between a large area of not pleasant neighbourhood and a very nice area as it was ruled by the local chavs the place never got busy as the well to do types would simply go to the posh pub deep in their territory.

What they did (He was not the owner but the GM) was slowly introduce more and more theme nights, curry, wine tasting, cultural stuff, live music, fishing trips and so on stuff that the guys that prop up the bar got bored by.

Aggression was zero tolerance, leave the bar (He is fortunate in that he is 6ft5) 1 time warning, happens again, they did not get back in full stop.

The bar became very active in meetings with local police, PUB WATCH (No idea if this was a local or national scheme) but it meant that over the course of around 1 year all the guys the bar really could do without had gone, the place is now a wonderful relaxing place to go sit without being confronted by the sort of folk many bars have that put you on edge.

No idea if this helps you but the transformation was possible.

If you happen to have a lounge and public bar, it would make a lot of sense to close the public bar regularly and focus on filling lounge, this worked well also

good luck with it