Nurses pay - who is telling the truth?

[UKSBD]

Keep hearing nurses being interviewed on different radio programmes and they say there earnings are far lower than what the Government say - Who is telling the truth?

Do the radio stations deliberately pick nurses who are earning less than other nurses for the interviews?

 

[IanSuth]

The official "average pay" for Nurses includes all registerred nurses which covers those no longer working in a true clinical setting but also high up managers who have kept their pin active.

When the Union are speaking they are referring to certain grades of nurses who are what you would call "frontline" active nurses.

So in all honesty both are telling the truth they are just answering an imprecise question.

The normal band for a degree qualified nurse is band 5

Agenda for change - pay rates | Health Careers

Band 1 (Please note that following the 2018 pay deal, band 1 closed to new entrants from 1 December 2018). £24,465

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk

Band 5

<2 years' experience £27,055
2-4 years £29,180
4+ years £32,934

There are then add-ons for being in an area with high living costs (those areas are strictly defined - I live edges of Reading, Wokingham hospital is in the 5% band, Royal Berks in Reading is 0% rated)

High cost area supplements​

Area	Level (1 April 2022)
Inner London	20% of basic salary, subject to a minimum payment of £4,888 and a maximum payment of £7,377
Outer London	15% of basic salary, subject to a minimum payment of £4,108 and a maximum payment of £5,177
Fringe	5% of basic salary, subject to a minimum payment of £1,136 and a maximum payment of £1,915

To be honest £27k as a graduate salary in Reading is pretty standard BUT your pay would rise faster outside of the NHS in a "normal" job and you would likely have not built up as much debt while studying (and doing a min of 1000 hours of unpaid placement work)

My daughter is training as a Physio - she is at a uni in NW London and has her first placement starting Jan 3rd in Croydon - I am going to have to give her a lift as her cunning plan to stay with my mum in Horsham and train/tram has been thwarted by rail strike. That is a 6 week placement for £0 where they are expected to cover travel costs/local accommodation

Also when you go from band 5 to 6 you restart the experience clock so an out of London Nurse with 5 years getting a promotion to a role with a lot more experience goes from £32,934 to £33,706 upon that promotion (Band 6 <2yrs)

 

[UKSBD]

Is Nurse a protected word?

Are people who are who aren't qualified allowed to call themselves nurses?

I see the only time the word nurse is mentioned below Band 5 are dental nurses.

Are these people being interviewed who say they are only earning just over £20k really support workers and admins rather than nurses?

Edit to add: I see "Nurse" isn't protected, but there are numerous discussions about whether it should be or not - https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/should-nurse-be-a-legally-protected-job-title/

 

[IanSuth]

I think a lot of HCA's end up doing "nursing" work due to low staffing so may consider themselves nurses.

Also definitely teachers in nurseries are often given the job title nursery nurse (friend of ours daughters is one and despite having a qualification that allows her to be a "room manager" she is paid sub £20k as a salaried job expected to cover shifts at short notice etc for no extra pay

But personally I would consider a "NURSE" to be a registerred nurse on the NMC register.

remember they are saying "under £20k" not "under £20k full time equivalent" though as well so might be part time

 

[Gyumri]

The average wage for a nurse seems to be £10 per hour gross based on a 40 hour week and published rates. Compare that with solicitors charging £350- £500 per hour. There's something not quite right.

 

[UKSBD]

That's the problem really, do people really think the average wage for a nurse is £10 an hour?

I think we all know the government spin things, mislead, imply and some would say, outright lie.

When people are misled by other sides using "Nurse" because it is emotive, it's almost as bad though.

Are Registered Nurses in the same union as other NHS workers?

 

[IanSuth]

That's the problem really, do people really think the average wage for a nurse is £10 an hour?

I think we all know the government spin things, mislead, imply and some would say, outright lie.

When people are misled by other sides using "Nurse" because it is emotive, it's almost as bad though.

Are Registered Nurses in the same union as other NHS workers?

No don't think so

registerred Nurses are RCN other nhs workers are Unison.

And £10ph is not right, that is only just over £20k fte and you can see a starting degree qualified nurse is c£27k outside London which is £13ph

use this for salary to hourly conversions

£27,055 a year is how much an hour in the UK? Hourly wage calculator

Hourly wage calculator. A yearly salary of £27,055 is £13.01 per hour. So a biweekly salary of £1,041 in the UK. Convert salary to hourly on salary-hourly.com

salary-hourly.com

 

[Clodbuster]

I think that they should be paid according to skill level and I do class them as skilled. Compare their skill necessity compared to a Train Driver ( 47K), a border Penpusher (35K), a walking postie.
The biggest reason for an increase is because the NHS is so short of staff. They have to attract people so Supply and Demand should take over.
Pay them better but not the rest of the strikers.
19% increase - yeah a bit heavy.

 

[IanSuth]

Something that does annoy me however is the Govt complaining that the ambulance workers wont negotiate nationally over cover when the govt's strike rules say strike votes etc must be carried out locally and each locale needs to vote to strike for that area to strike it can't be a national decision.

Make your mid up, either deal nationally with a union that can make national decisions or deal locally with each quanta that is allowed to make it's own decison

It annoys me as much as pretending that rail is a privatised industry but stepping into the dispute there - either run the negotiations form govt (who are paying the bill anyway via subsidies) or let the rail operating companies do it without interference - making the unions negotiate with people who cant actually make a decision is never going to make for an easy quick solution

I am not coming out pro or anti the strikes just saying get the top people who can talk turkey re Pay & Conditions together in a room at ACAS order in pizza and don't let them out until they have come up with a decision that can be put back to the members as a "we recommend you accept this" and that the govt will pay for

 

[givebracku]

I think it depends on the experience (as earlier said) as well as on the hospital they work in public/private

 

[siangana]

I think it depends on the experience (as earlier said) as well as on the hospital they work in public/private

yeah, it really depends
so we cannot tell who is lying