Not strictly business but it affects us all....

roydmoorian

Free Member
Nov 6, 2009
1,990
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Pontefract (West Yorks.)
I wouldn't normally cut and paste a longish piece like this but there is a lot of truth in it ;)

"No doubt you are outraged about the horse meat scandal. You have every right to be – criminality, profiteering, potential fraud, all have led to many people eating an animal they would probably prefer to see in the 3.20 at Kempton and possibly also ingesting dangerous veterinary drugs.
However, I’m going to come at this from another angle and it’s this: it’s your own bloody fault. There you go.

I know, I know; you’re not happy. It’s not your fault is it? It’s the government, the supermarkets, criminals and Goodness knows who else.
But it’s not just them, you see. It’s you.

After a week of this story my patience has finally snapped, and it’s time someone told you a few home truths.
Many of us have been banging on for years about this stuff, trying to make you care about the need for better food labeling, about fairness for farmers, about the need to support local farms to avoid all our food coming from giant, uncaring corporate agri-businesses which churn out cheap product to feed the insatiable appetite of supermarket price-cutting.
We’ve been highlighting the unfairness of UK farmers being forced to meet 73 different regulations to sell to supermarkets which don’t apply to foreign suppliers, and talking about our children growing up with no understanding of food production and, more than all of this, about the way supermarkets have driven down and down and down the cost of meat to the point where people think it’s normal to buy 3lbs of beef (in burgers) for 90p.

And you wouldn’t listen. It was like shouting into a gale.
Through the years of New Labour, when farming and the countryside were demonised, you wouldn’t listen. You cheerfully chose to believe that all farmers were Rolls Royce driving aristocrats, as painted by John Prescott. You had no sympathy. You wanted a chicken for £2 and your Sunday roast for a fiver. Well, you got them didn’t you? And hundreds of farmers went to the wall. And you still didn’t care because Turkey slices were ten for 60p.

And now you’re furious, because it turns out that when you pay peanuts for something it’s actually not very good. Who knew eh?
And before you start, don’t even think about the “it’s all right for the rich who can go to local butcher’s shops but what about the poor?” line. The number of people who can’t afford adequate amounts of food is tiny – tragic and wrong, yes, but tiny. Supermarkets don’t make their billions from them hunting in the “reduced” basket, they make their money from millions of everyday folk filling a weekly trolley. You, in other words.
Until the mid 1990s, Britain was also full of good local abattoirs. They were run by people who knew the local farmers who used them, and the local butchers which sold the meat. They were closed in their hundreds by new health and safety regulations which made it impossible for small abattoirs to compete with giant companies doing the job more cheaply.
We tried to tell you, you didn’t care.

And of course, unlike the previous generation you were “too busy” to actually cook. You were so busy that the idea of making a meal, then making two more out of the left-overs, was like something from Cider With Rosie to you. You bought a meal every night. And so it had to be cheap.

We tried to tell you. You just pointed out that Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall went to Eton and sneered at us.

Cheap rearing abroad. You didn’t care. Cheap slaughtering by machine. You didn’t care. Cheap meat full of crap and off-cuts. You didn’t care. Frozen blocks of meat off-cuts from the abattoir floor being trucked in from Poland to ensure your pack of mince was cheap enough. You didn’t care. In fact you didn’t know, but that’s because you didn’t care.
But we cared. We kept trying to tell you. We launched campaigns, we wrote letters, we raised funds for adverts. Nobody knows what they’re eating anymore, we said. Nobody recognises how hard it is for farmers here to produce quality meat at a price they can sell because of the supermarkets.
And you didn’t care.

Well, now you know you’ve been munching on Dobbin and his various nasty drugs, possibly for years. And now you care.
And yes, you’ve been misled, cheated, lied to. But you must also take some of the responsibility. You didn’t tell supermarkets you wanted quality, you just watched the ads which said “175 products cheaper at Asda this week than Tesco” and went to Asda. You made the market they sold in to, you set their priorities. They gave you what you wanted.
So what will you do now? Now that you care.

How about this…
Rather than just moaning at MPs why not actually think about what you eat, what you buy, where it comes from? Why not visit a farm on an open day? Take the kids, show them where their food comes from. If it’s a good farm, why not try to use your consumer power accordingly to make more farms that way? To make them viable. Why not have a think about how you could make meat go further without spending more, through cooking, and thus be able to buy good, British, assured quality meat?
If you do that, I’ll stop blaming you, and some good may come of all of this.

The culprits responsible for all this will be found, and no doubt tried and hopefully convicted. With luck new rules will be introduced to make a repeat harder. But the market will find a way – it always does. So long as there is a demand for vast quantities of ultra-cheap meat, people will find a way to supply it. So long as people remain uninterested in where their food comes from and how it’s made, someone will cut corners.
It’s a ravenous beast, the market. Like its customers, as it turns out.
So now that you care I’ll tell you that we’ve been highlighting the plight of dairy farmers this year; explaining how supermarkets are paying such a pittance that they can’t stay in business and milk is increasingly coming in from abroad, where standards are lower. Pleasingly people noticed. Some people. If you weren’t one, perhaps, given events, you might like to now?

And when you’ve done that, take a look at the video in the link below, which details the Countryside Alliance’s hard-fought campaign on country-of-origin food labeling. Whilst you were suggesting the CA was only interested in fox hunting, it was doing this, for you, and now you know why.

SOS Dairy:
http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/29/12/2012/136833/sos-dairy-farmers-end-2012-with-heads-held-high.htm

Food labelling: http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ca/campaigns-food-farming/our-step-towards-victory-on-meat-labelling "
 
Er its the responsibility of the seller to make sure the product is fit for purpose.

End of story.

Supermarkets are trying to shift the blame,but its they who have been negligent in not checking their stock.

Although I strongly think that some of their employee's knew it had been going on for many years.
 
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Interesting However whilst all this has been taking over acres of newsprint..........

A public inquiry last week found that up to 1,200 people died needlessly in Mid Staffs hospitals between 2005 and 2009 due to poor care and mismanagement.
Has this been forgotten so quickly and readily?
 
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Interesting However whilst all this has been taking over acres of newsprint..........

A public inquiry last week found that up to 1,200 people died needlessly in Mid Staffs hospitals between 2005 and 2009 due to poor care and mismanagement.
Has this been forgotten so quickly and readily?

It was probably something in the food.?:|
 
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Interesting However whilst all this has been taking over acres of newsprint..........

A public inquiry last week found that up to 1,200 people died needlessly in Mid Staffs hospitals between 2005 and 2009 due to poor care and mismanagement.
Has this been forgotten so quickly and readily?

I've had to write blog articles and news stories about this topic, it infuriates me when I look at newspaper websites and see it bumped down the list by the latest horse meat story, no one wants to talk about the rapidly approaching NHS/ Care crisis.

Horse meat tastes perfectly fine anyway and the health risks touted in the papers are so small they are negligible.
 
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I'm not too sure super markets could check all their stock Earl. Do you mean every item should be tested? Surely not?

Suppliers sign up to standards when agreeing a contract, surely they are where the blame lies?

Anyhoo, seems like a load of nonsense to me. Nowt wrong with trigger and chips I'm sure :)

d

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I'm not too sure super markets could check all their stock Earl. Do you mean every item should be tested? Surely not?

Well they photograph every apple they sell.?:)

I think where food and public safety are concerned it has to be the supplier to the public that has the responsibility,not hard for supermarkets with the huge margins they make.

Some very dodgy stuff goes into their ready meals,avoid at all costs.IMHO
 
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I get out and about a fair bit, and the thing is I've yet to meet a single person who's upset by this. In my experience everyone's just laughing and joking about it.

Obviously there's the horsey set who are probably up in arms, but they're a box of frogs anyway IMHO. (And the vast majority don't clear their horse's crap out of the road - they just pretend they haven't seen it and leave it for somebody else)

But that's a whole different subject :)
 
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I get out and about a fair bit, and the thing is I've yet to meet a single person who's upset by this. In my experience everyone's just laughing and joking about it.

Thats a common symptom of people who eat horse meat.

So have you bought any beef burgers from Tesco lately.?;)
 
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I think we all owe Findus a debt of gratitude.

North Korea starts testing nukes, the Pope resigns, a meteor strikes Russia ...

A good job that the four horses of the apocalypse have been chopped up and packaged into beef lasagne.
 
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Apart from the media, is anyone really interested or bothered ?

I think there should be more concern tbh. It's not the horse meat thats the problem, its what the horse ate before it was made in to lasagne :eek: painkillers, tranquilisers, all kinds of stuff that is not fit for human consumption.

I'm a bit peeved off with people who say 'yeah yeah its nonsense cos they all eat horse in other countries and your all idiots' thats not the point at all, i couldn't care less if people in Mexico eat dogs. I'd quite like to know what is actually in my food before I eat it thanks, especially as it says beef on the outside. They can't just go and stick a horse, a few dogs and the neighbours cat in the grinder because 'they eat those things in other countries' :eek:
 
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Apart from the media, is anyone really interested or bothered ?

Well I may be in a minority on this forum but I certainly prefer to ingest food which has come through a QA supply chain with accurate paperwork and has been bred and reared for food and not the rejects of the racing industry where a replacement "passport" can be issued at a whim at an auction mart and there is no central register of the animals concerned.

I have no objection to eating horsemeat but I would want to be able to trust that it had not been treated with bute and the seller had observed withdrawal periods for any other medication, and that it had not been condemned as unfit for human consumption by the veterinary meat inspector at the point of slaughter. Without full traceabilty this is not possible.
 
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Similarly, despite my flippancy above, I am concerned about this.

I have no objection to eating horse but the problem is deceit. If its labelled beef, it should be beef.
 
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I agree with the last 3 posts wholeheartedly but I genuinely believe the food is safe, as that would be a whole new ball game altogether. As for the deceit, fair argument, but we are talking business here and sad as it is, honesty is not always high on the agenda in many businesses, especially where big money is concerned.
 
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I think we all owe Findus a debt of gratitude.

North Korea starts testing nukes, the Pope resigns, a meteor strikes Russia ...

A good job that the four horses of the apocalypse have been chopped up and packaged into beef lasagne.

North Korea starts testing nukes. it did not wake me up.

the Pope resigns. am I boffered.

a meteor strikes Russia.I don't live in Russia.

So how mant Tesco's burgers you eaten this week.?;)
 
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Similarly, despite my flippancy above, I am concerned about this.

I have no objection to eating horse but the problem is deceit. If its labelled beef, it should be beef.

I am wondering when some of the directors of supermarkets will be arrested over this scandal?

There have been arrests of farmers and now it's time for the directors of the supermarkets to have their collars felt. After all they are selling the product and should have made sure that they knew exactly what was being sold.I don't subscribe to the argument that the supply chain is just too big to monitor 100%.
 
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I am wondering when some of the directors of supermarkets will be arrested over this scandal?

There have been arrests of farmers and now it's time for the directors of the supermarkets to have their collars felt. After all they are selling the product and should have made sure that they knew exactly what was being sold.I don't subscribe to the argument that the supply chain is just too big to monitor 100%.

Please get your facts right, farmers breed and rear food animals for slaughter and all their animals are registered and all medicines are accounted for through an extremely rigorous assurance procedure which has significant penalties built in.

Horsemeat is a by product of the racing and riding industries with lax medicinal record keeping (because the animals are not specifically bred for food).

The arrests have been of slaughterhouse and meat cutting plant operators, NOT farmers.
 
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I am wondering when some of the directors of supermarkets will be arrested over this scandal?

Not going to happen see:

Bankers,MP's.in fact anyone to do with the establishment,apart from a few sacrificial lambs to appease the mob.
 
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I am wondering when some of the directors of supermarkets will be arrested over this scandal?

Not going to happen see:

Bankers,MP's.in fact anyone to do with the establishment,apart from a few sacrificial lambs to appease the mob.

I agree with Earl.

But I suspect that had it just been a small corner shop found selling horse meat it would have been shut down by now. One rule for them ...
 
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Haha ok in context are we shifting to the operational level? Supply chain management isn't dealt with by dinner ladies. The clue is in "management".

I did go up a level from the table monitors :)
(if they still have them)

When I was a lad each table of 8 would have 2 table monitors who go up and get the trays of food and bring back to their table.

This brings back a memory that has stuck in my mind for nearly 40 years.

It was the week before christmas and we had a christmas pud on each table to be divided in 8.

As me and the other monitor cut it up we saw the sixpence and then had to make the decision who to give it to, being polite and kind I didn't snatch for it but instead thought we would just dish out exactly the same as we always did and it would be luck of the draw.

All was going well dishing out to everyone and then we got to the piece with the sixpence (we were only two who had seen it), rather than giving it to the next person in line the little ******* put it in his own bowl :mad:

True story which I will never forget.
 
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All was going well dishing out to everyone and then we got to the piece with the sixpence (we were only two who had seen it), rather than giving it to the next person in line the little ******* put it in his own bowl :mad:

True story which I will never forget.

So you went to school with Alan Sugar.?:|
 
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I did go up a level from the table monitors :)
(if they still have them)

When I was a lad each table of 8 would have 2 table monitors who go up and get the trays of food and bring back to their table.

This brings back a memory that has stuck in my mind for nearly 40 years.

It was the week before christmas and we had a christmas pud on each table to be divided in 8.

As me and the other monitor cut it up we saw the sixpence and then had to make the decision who to give it to, being polite and kind I didn't snatch for it but instead thought we would just dish out exactly the same as we always did and it would be luck of the draw.

All was going well dishing out to everyone and then we got to the piece with the sixpence (we were only two who had seen it), rather than giving it to the next person in line the little ******* put it in his own bowl :mad:

True story which I will never forget.

Haha school dinners eh :D
 
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Please get your facts right, farmers breed and rear food animals for slaughter and all their animals are registered and all medicines are accounted for through an extremely rigorous assurance procedure which has significant penalties built in.

Horsemeat is a by product of the racing and riding industries with lax medicinal record keeping (because the animals are not specifically bred for food).

The arrests have been of slaughterhouse and meat cutting plant operators, NOT farmers.

So NO farmers were arrested, OK, I stand corrected.;)
 
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It all goes back to food shortages after world war 2.........food standards were reduced, in order to 'feed the nation' - this allowed food that would normally be classed as unfit for consumption to be added back on the menu.

It has never been reinstated and remains at that level today! This is why you can be fed rubbish and no know.

Like MRM - cartilledge and sweepings that you find in budget meats, apple pies, and so on. In fact most of the e-numbers you eat are there to disguise this rubbish, that preserve the food.

Ironically, your local butcher is not permitted to sell MRM - not fit for human consumption, but due to the war factories can! So really, we should be campaigning for this to be reinstated.

Meanwhile I buy my meat from the butcher as always- Spent six pounds on beef last week - enough for 5 days meals in various guises. It doesn't shrink, no fat comes from it all all - which is what drew me to it - and the taste is incredible. Far better for me!
 
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It all goes back to food shortages after world war 2.........food standards were reduced, in order to 'feed the nation' - this allowed food that would normally be classed as unfit for consumption to be added back on the menu.



L

Although we had rationing I have never heard that quality or safety was reduced in food.

Have you some evidence.?
 
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I actually think the OP makes a valid point.

Of course it is the fault of everyone in the supply chain in one way or another. Ultimately I think there needs to be traceability and documentation with food and if you cannot trace it back to source, supermarkets shouldn't be accepting it. Especially if it's an import and is passing through many hands.

For some the it is fraud and criminality, for others it is negligence and/or incompetence and/or complacency.

While the bulk of the fault is with the supply chain, the consumer does have a role to play. Being blissfully unaware of the obvious (if it's dirt cheap, it's going to be dirt crap) is kind of asking for it.

I wouldn't buy Tesco's Everyday Value Whatever because the price is so low that you know it's going to be crap inside. Then again I tend to avoid processed foods as a rule of thumb. After I worked part time in a factory that made ready meals when I was in college... well I just wouldn't touch the stuff after that.


If I was hard up, I would be making cheaper meals (there are lots of cheap and healthy meals that you can make).


It's also worrying that people think it's funny or don't care. I think the problem is that it's horse, an edible meat that is consumed as food regularly in other developed countries, so people don't think "ugh thats gross" - people look at the face of it and don't think any deeper or connect the dots. The problem isn't the horse, it's the fact horse is there. I don't think people think about how it got there and what that actually means.

If it were rat I bet people wouldn't be laughing.
 
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